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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: SerScot on June 01, 2018, 06:01:16 PM
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Wouldn’t Bob know that Justin was really Kemmler?
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Seems a reasonable assumption. He had all the information about him, the same that the White Council had, which I'm positive includes a portrait, or a physical description. This is assuming that locking away Big Bad Bob also locked away his direct recollection of what Kemmler looked like.
Then again, it's possible that Corpsetaker learned her little trick from Big Kemmler, and he switched with Justin when it became clear he was going to lose to the White Council. The rest of his life was an act—and it certainly looks like Justin went bad after his encounter with him.
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Seems a reasonable assumption. He had all the information about him, the same that the White Council had, which I'm positive includes a portrait, or a physical description. This is assuming that locking away Big Bad Bob also locked away his direct recollection of what Kemmler looked like.
Then again, it's possible that Corpsetaker learned her little trick from Big Kemmler, and he switched with Justin when it became clear he was going to lose to the White Council. The rest of his life was an act—and it certainly looks like Justin went bad after his encounter with him.
Wouldn’t it be strange for Kemmler, who devoted his wizard length life to necromancy, to suddenly surrender that practice. Bob would have noticed.
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I don't think it's likely at all, but it's possible that his plans changed. I haven't read the Luccio Kemmler short yet, so I don't know if it reveals anything more about him, but I have no clue what his original goal was. Why start a World War? Was it just power he was after, or something else? If he had a different goal beyond ascending to godhood—like he thought he might need the power to do something specific—maybe he found a different way to accomplish that goal (such as coaxing Starborn to be his minions), and that necessitated going into hiding—which also requires avoiding black magic when possible to avoid detection.
Again, likely? Nope. Almost absolutely certain this isn't the case. Slim, minuscule, infinitesimal chance? Yeah.
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I don't think it's likely at all, but it's possible that his plans changed. I haven't read the Luccio Kemmler short yet, so I don't know if it reveals anything more about him, but I have no clue what his original goal was. Why start a World War? Was it just power he was after, or something else? If he had a different goal beyond ascending to godhood—like he thought he might need the power to do something specific—maybe he found a different way to accomplish that goal (such as coaxing Starborn to be his minions), and that necessitated going into hiding—which also requires avoiding black magic when possible to avoid detection.
Again, likely? Nope. Almost absolutely certain this isn't the case. Slim, minuscule, infinitesimal chance? Yeah.
Actually, it would be really interesting if Kemmler was a “Thanos” style nutjob who really believes he’s doing all this to “save the world”.
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I think everyone will be shocked to learn that Kemmler is Kemmler..
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I think everyone will be shocked to learn that Kemmler is Kemmler..
That’s my point
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I don't think Justin was Kemmler but the argument that Bob would recognize him doesn't hold water, as Kemmler could have just ordered Bob to erase any information he has related to his personal identity just as Harry was able to order Bob to erase information.
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I don't think Justin was Kemmler but the argument that Bob would recognize him doesn't hold water, as Kemmler could have just ordered Bob to erase any information he has related to his personal identity just as Harry was able to order Bob to erase information.
If Justin was Kemmler why wasn’t Justin using Necromancy?
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Anyone else catch Jim said Bob was held by two very powerful wizards who left an impression on Bob? So... Justin for his own reasons didn't count... cause he's a Kemmler duplicate?
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As posted in pieces in another thread, here is my theory:
Justin is a warden present in the final battle with Kemmler. Kemmler swaps bodies with Justin, a la Corpsetaker, just before the final blow is struck, killing Justin instead of Kemmler.
Kemmler/Justin then retires as a warden, retrieves the skull and commands the entity to keep his true identity a secret.
Years later, he adopts Harry and orders the spirit to instruct Harry. In order to do this without risking revealing Kemmler's secret, the spirit creates a new personality without the knowledge of Kemmler. This new personality imprints on Harry creating Bob.
Later, Harry inadvertently orders Bob to remember the original personality which almost kills him, to prevent Harry from learning Kemmler's . Harry orders Bob to never remember that personality, so Bob amputates Evil Bob.
My personal theory now: Kemmler is actually hiding in Elaine, without her knowing it.
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Why wasn’t Justin doing Necromancy if he was Kemmler?
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If Justin was Kemmler why wasn’t Justin using Necromancy?
lol What was the first thing I said? "I don't think Justin was Kemmler"
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Anyone else catch Jim said Bob was held by two very powerful wizards who left an impression on Bob? So... Justin for his own reasons didn't count... cause he's a Kemmler duplicate?
Probably their strong personalities, and their dedication to their beliefs.
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Necromancy isn't the only thing Kemmler can do. Necromancy isn't so good at controlling the living, so he would have to resort to other forms of black magic to create his followers.
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Anyone else catch Jim said Bob was held by two very powerful wizards who left an impression on Bob? So... Justin for his own reasons didn't count... cause he's a Kemmler duplicate?
Probably because Justin wasn't actually that powerful... he was a Warden with decades of experience, and Harry beat him at 16, which suggests a fairly significant advantage in power on Harry's part.
Which is another good argument that he wasn't Kemmler - Kemmler certainly wouldn't have lost to Harry.
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Probably because Justin wasn't actually that powerful... he was a Warden with decades of experience, and Harry beat him at 16, which suggests a fairly significant advantage in power on Harry's part.
Which is another good argument that he wasn't Kemmler - Kemmler certainly wouldn't have lost to Harry.
He could summon fire that wouldn't burn him, a class of wizardry Harry still isn't capable of...
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Probably because Justin wasn't actually that powerful... he was a Warden with decades of experience, and Harry beat him at 16, which suggests a fairly significant advantage in power on Harry's part.
Harry from Storm Front would have had his hands full with a Warden with decades of experience. There is a reason Morgan thought Harry could not have defeated Justin. There still is a reason to question it. Did Justin fake his own death? Did He Who Walks Behind betray Justin, and make him unable to defend himself against Harry? Did someone else help Harry?
I still sometimes wonder if Harry's mind had been messed with so he'd remember killing Justin without actually doing it.
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I still sometimes wonder if Harry's mind had been messed with so he'd remember killing Justin without actually doing it.
Dun dun DUN! I like it.
That being said, there's a difference between defeating a Warden and killing a Warden. If Harry caught Justin in a position where going full on toe-to-toe was not an option (element of surprise, or Justin in the middle of doing something like a very delicate spell that couldn't just be paused), decades of magical and job experience go out the window, and Harry takes him out easily.
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Dun dun DUN! I like it.
That being said, there's a difference between defeating a Warden and killing a Warden. If Harry caught Justin in a position where going full on toe-to-toe was not an option (element of surprise, or Justin in the middle of doing something like a very delicate spell that couldn't just be paused), decades of magical and job experience go out the window, and Harry takes him out easily.
If Harry caught Justin in a position where going full on toe-to-toe was not an option (element of surprise, or Justin in the middle of doing something like a very delicate spell that couldn't just be paused), decades of magical and job experience go out the window, and Harry takes him out easily.
I doubt it - in a flashback in "Welcome to the Jungle" we see Harry fighting Justin, and Justin is casting some kind of electric eel spell at Harry. So I think it really was a straight fight.
I don't think Harry's memories of it could be altered either, because the "perfect memory" thing he had as a ghost in GS probably would have bypassed that - Lea said that his ghost memories were not just stored in his head but remembered by the universe (not exact wording, but it seemed pretty clear IMO that it was "external storage".)
I think Harry's raw power is generally underestimated. He's stronger than Luccio was even pre-bodyswap, and Justin likely was no great shakes.
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And of course, if Jim goes to the "altered memories" well too many times and for too long, it basically undermines the entire series, because anything and everything we see may simply not happen.
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And of course, if Jim goes to the "altered memories" well too many times and for too long, it basically undermines the entire series, because anything and everything we see may simply not happen.
One thing I think that may have happened is Harry losing his Choice at a critical moment. Much of the entire book series is about the Choices people make, and how important it is that people are free to have a Choice... Well what if Harry at a critical moment was influenced in such a way that he didn't have a Choice? Well when he found out he'd go ballistic, call the entire system bullshit and that all these gods were playing games with humanity... Maybe he'd want to bring the entire system down, bring down all the gods. :shrug: I dunno.