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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Forte on January 16, 2018, 03:33:15 AM

Title: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Forte on January 16, 2018, 03:33:15 AM

So I'm looking to do my first game (i will be the GM) and i've been reading over the manuals. We're going to be running a game at Up To Your Waist, and one of the players wants to be a con artist who uses magic to dupe his marks. The basic premise is he wants to be able to "summon" a hot tub for his customers, grab their money, and then bail before it dissolves back into ectoplasm. I realize this is A) Ridiculous and B) kinda complicated, but he's really jazzed about the idea so im trying to figure out how that might work.

My first thought was a Focused Practitioner who did Thaumaturgy or Ritual magic, but a hot tub is mechanically fairly complex; even if its "inner workings" got reduced to "air bubbles come up, water stays hot," I'm not sure if it would be viable (How many shifts would something like that cost?). The second barrier i see to this model is that if it actually has real, actual water, could that be a part of the summoning and more importantly, would that qualify as "running water" and ground out the spell? Seems very anti-fun for that to be the case.

The sceond way I thought of tackling it is for him to be creating an Illusion somehow, with enough shifts that it could have some 'tangible' aspects, and instead his mark is really sitting on the floor or in a lawn chair thinking they've just had a hot tub installed. I have basically no idea how to stat that one out though.

Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on how to bring this concept to life?

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2018, 06:14:06 AM

Doing that with conjuration would be pretty darn hard. YS274 specifically says

Quote

Functioning objects of real technology are pretty much impossible (or more accurately, too much work to be worth it).

and even a nonfunctioning hot tub would be pretty hard to make. I'd eyeball it at complexity 9 if you wanted it to look convincingly real. 3 shifts for complexity, 2 for size, 4 for believability.

You don't have to worry about shorting out your own magic, though. Water mages don't seem to do that. And anyway, it's no fun, so why should it happen?

The Power you really want for this kind of trick is Greater Glamours (YS166). It's not intended as a PC power, though. You might want to work out some kind of middle ground between Glamours and Greater Glamours. Alternately, you could just let the player take Greater Glamours after a conversation about what will fly and what won't.

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: whitelaughter on January 16, 2018, 06:33:41 AM

Well, he could summon an NPC of mine from a different game system....

For the In Nomine game, I created an ethereal that was a water elemental that owned a bath/spa/jacuzzi artifact; rewritten for the Dresdenverse he'd only need to have Swift Transition (No Mortal Home), a high Craft skill (specialising in massage) and the ability to grant the Aquatic Power (say, put that in the Jacuzzi Item of Power).

The only payment Laver would want would be the Fate point to 'loan' his IoP to his bather.
Laver would then hang around until he was next summoned.

here's the write up in the IN rules if you're interested:

(click to show/hide)

Laver
Primal Bath Spirit

Corporeal Forces: 1  Strength:  2    Agility: 2
Ethereal Forces:    4  Intelligence:10  Precision:6
Celestial Forces:  1    Will:  2         
Perception: 2
  Element: (Classical Elements) Water.
  Affinities: Water(Primal), Fire (Moderate),
        Glamour(Moderate),Entrancement (Slight).
  Vessel: Large body of water/3, Charisma +3 (Bath -
Essence cost: 150)
Skills: Artistry(Massage)/6, Knowledge (Hell's
royalty/3).
Rituals: Summon Named Ethereal Spirit.
Dread: A disappointed bather/4.
Attunements: Partial Celestial Attunement(Lilith).
Artifacts: Talisman(Artistry{Massage}/6); is also an
endless supply of bath salts and oils. Takes the form of a bath, spa or jacuzzi as desired.

Countless cold, dirty, miserable humans have dreamt of
a nice warm bath - and their dreams spawned Laver.
Laver has no particular agenda: all it wants is to
help people relax and be clean. It's very good at
this; bathers frequently fall asleep, as the water
massages the tension out of them - so Laver simply
grants them the ability to breathe underwater.
Laver's name can be found in numerous sorcerous texts,
with the simple deal Laver offers - summon it and
provide the 5 essence it needs to power it's
abilities, and you will be delightfully pampered.
Sorcerers in the know consider Laver one of the most
useful spirits to Summon - any spirit can grant power,
but Laver makes life worth living.
He's also a fine way to Damn your soul, although that
wasn't his idea. Lilith was the first Superior to
learn about Laver, and swiftly granted it the ability
to Summon her - if she's going to listen to sorcerers
offering deals, she may as well do so in comfort.
Besides, most sorcerers' brains melt when they see
Lilith bathing, which makes them so much easier to
manipulate and out-bargain. Andre and Eli are also
regular patrons - Laver grants +4 to any attempt to
Invoke any of these 3 Superiors. (Kobal has been known
to captain ships whilst bathing in Laver, but that
joke has apparently gone stale).
Laver is probably doomed - "Prince Andre is so nice!"
Although Lilith is trying to keep Laver free (with aid
from Eli, Marc and Yves!), Andre is determined to have
Laver's services permanently at his disposal. If
(when?) Andre succeeds, he intends to add 2 Forces to
Laver, one from a Balseraph and another from a Djinn;
then add his appropriate Band Attunements and the
Sensitivity Attunement! Of course, all of this
Infernal power is likely to warp Laver, but Andre
doesn't care.

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: g33k on January 16, 2018, 07:59:07 AM

Hmmm...  I may be overlooking something, but...

- I don't think summoned water "is" water, magically-speaking (in the sense of grounding-out magic); it's really ectoplasm, and reverts as soon as it's cut off from the Nevernever (either by a circle, or the caster running out of shifts/concentration).  So I think he;s good there... unless I'm mistaken, of course!

- Given that the faux hot tub doesn't need to last very long, why make it tech?  Heat the water (and move it) via magic.  "That's the access panel.  Only qualifited electricians should open it."  (A) there's no heater or pump & (B) the whole thing will be gone (dispelled back to ectoplasm) before it "wears out" (stops working).  Why make a tech device (which magic is Really Bad At) when you can make a magical one that just LOOKS like tech?

Have I gone wildly astray here?

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2018, 08:14:11 AM

You certainly could simulate the jacuzzi's effects with magic, but it'd add yet more complexity to an already non-trivial spell.

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Quantus on January 16, 2018, 12:53:06 PM

If it were me Id go for the Illusion route, if only so that when the PC has bailed and it wears off they suddenly realize they are hot-tubbing in a dumpster behind the bar. 

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: whitelaughter on January 16, 2018, 02:12:41 PM

I'm surprised no one's considered going: Demesne is 1 pt, so can be cast as a spell for no extra refresh cost. Create Demesne with ultimate Hot Tub, 2nd spell to open doorway, client enjoys 'real' jaccuzi for spell duration. Hopefully does not end up trapped in Never Never, as that's got to trigger Lawbreaker.

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: khadgar4606 on January 16, 2018, 05:14:49 PM

demese is actaual good idea with couple tweeks to look like marks room for x hours you can get money and travel safe distance  when spell breaks.
P.S I realy love the bath spirit

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Mr. Death on January 16, 2018, 05:17:27 PM

I'm just confused as to how this works as a con.

There are far easier ways to get money from people using magic.

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Quantus on January 16, 2018, 05:48:16 PM

Quote from: Mr. Death on January 16, 2018, 05:17:27 PM

I'm just confused as to how this works as a con.

There are far easier ways to get money from people using magic.

I suspect it's playing toward a specific type of affluent party-goer as prey.  The key to any and every con is making it seem like you belong there, and making disorienting shows of wealth appear from thin air is a decent way to go about it magically.  The fact that this particular PC has a bit of a Jacuzzi fetish really only restricts his hunting grounds, but the frame of the con would work with a surprise Office or Boardroom or Command Center or anything else whose presence would require lots of Power/Influence/Foresight and Time/Money to be there. It's about the disorienting opulence, the implication of Power, and the ability to Claim the Home Turf (socially speaking).  If it were me, Id sell them the very Building we were sitting in, convincing them it was mine by virtue of a truly ridiculous hot tub in a truly ridiculous location (like one of those glass bottom ones on a balcony or something equally improbable) then leave them to eventually realize they wandering around half-naked in a building they do not in fact own. 

A non-Magic equivalent con would be the con where you steal Borrow a super-expensive car (traditionally by posing as a valet) and "borrow" an Armani suit (by posing as a personal assistant picking up dry cleaning) to to fake the trappings of Wealth and Power your mark is expecting. 

---

To the actual application of it, I really like the Demesne suggestion, that accomplishes all the various cosmetic effects the player wanted without having to individually explain them all physically.  Not to mention already being balanced into the system and explained via established NN mechanics, for when access and/or escape become important.  Tactically speaking if you can get a person into your own NN pocket that can sever a wide array of active Spell effects, and talking them into a pool of Water can take care of even more. 

This also opens up a lot more character options for how they are actually accomplishing the thing aside from being a practitioner.  Spirit companion (or NN heritage) doing the heavy lifting could easily fit since we're talking about NN manipulation.

If you want to be mean you could pair it with Marked By Power, indicating they were a former representative of something Big out there but now are on the run and on the Grift.  This would give backstory to know how to move in the social circles and gives them the social status they seem to want to be able to through around a bit, but also give them tangible reasons to need to make those Discipline checks to suppress it.  Another up-side of this is that they'd retain some social advantage even if taking to somebody clued-in that would see through the magical nature of the Hot-tub.


EDIT:  If we are talking about Demesne as the power used, how restricted would the player be on opening a Door into their private Room before the PC would need to take Swift Transition?

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: Forte on January 17, 2018, 04:11:24 PM

Thanks so much for your input guys - I'm going to get with the player and run some of these ideas past him to see how he feels. The Demense idea is interesting, but I think i like the 'flair' of using an Illusion or Glamour more, leaving them feeling sheepish and perhaps in compromising situations when the effects wear off. That said, its not my character so I'll roll with their preference. I'll let you know if anything else comes up!

Title: Re: Jacuzzomancy?
Post by: whitelaughter on January 17, 2018, 10:23:52 PM

Quote from: khadgar4606 on January 16, 2018, 05:14:49 PM

demesne is actual good idea with couple tweeks to look like marks room for x hours you can get money and travel safe distance  when spell breaks.
P.S I really love the bath spirit

[grins] Thank you!