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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: wardenferry419 on November 07, 2017, 11:31:18 PM

Title: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 07, 2017, 11:31:18 PM
Who was summoning Outsiders?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Rasins on November 08, 2017, 04:08:50 PM
In Dead Beat?  I don't remember Outsiders being summoned in Dead Beat.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 08, 2017, 10:20:26 PM
I think it was during an off-screen battle and tied to why so few wardens showed up.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Kindler on November 09, 2017, 03:26:48 PM
I think it was during an off-screen battle and tied to why so few wardens showed up.

Yeah, it was part of the attack that wrecked the Wardens for a while.

Personally, I think the obvious choice is Peabody.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Rasins on November 09, 2017, 07:14:52 PM
Peabody makes sense.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Avernite on November 09, 2017, 08:04:59 PM
And the mystery co-conspirator of Peabody, maybe.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: jonas on November 09, 2017, 10:01:15 PM
And the mystery co-conspirator of Peabody, maybe.
One wonders if cowl and co-conspirator are the same person, who separate ones?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Rasins on November 10, 2017, 02:29:34 PM
One wonders if cowl and co-conspirator are the same person, who separate ones?

I initially thought of Cowl, but then remembered that he was in Chicago, and the Outsiders where... elsewhere, in Dead Beat.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Avernite on November 10, 2017, 08:03:59 PM
One wonders if cowl and co-conspirator are the same person, who separate ones?
It is possible, but Cristos has also been fingered as the co-conspirator.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Rasins on November 13, 2017, 04:46:16 PM
It is possible, but Cristos has also been fingered as the co-conspirator.

I still thing that Cristos is a dupe.  I know, I know, he's senior council level, but I still think he's a power grabbing dupe.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 13, 2017, 06:02:29 PM
He extorted his way onto Council instead of putting in the years.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Rasins on November 14, 2017, 06:27:46 PM
He extorted his way onto Council instead of putting in the years.

Well, he still has some seniority.  He must be older than a majority of the council to even be considered.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: jonas on November 14, 2017, 06:37:26 PM
Well, he still has some seniority.  He must be older than a majority of the council to even be considered.
They went through pretty much the whole list in SK. Don't think he's that high on it, just more focused on politico's by comparison to others. His 'frontman' position with the lesser represented groups might have a direct effect on that of course
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 16, 2017, 12:31:59 AM
It was what was suggested in TC.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 16, 2017, 02:30:12 AM
He extorted his way onto Council instead of putting in the years.

He was a former protege of laFortier, who headed a constituency made up of wizards from smaller countries that IIRC made up about a third of the Council but were not otherwise represented on the Senior Council at all.

So he played fast and loose to get into a position of influence, but whether he is doing that out of lust for power or a genuine idealistic desire to represent and protect the interests of people who are not otherwise represented at the highest levels, is unclear to me.  (I think part of what Jim might be doing with Christos is setting Harry up for an epiphany on the "hey, this is pretty much exactly how what I am doing with the Paranet looks to people who can't see inside my head" level.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 16, 2017, 02:41:49 AM
Granted our exposure to him is limited; but, he really does scream to me "douchy used car salesman."
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 16, 2017, 04:30:44 PM
Granted our exposure to him is limited; but, he really does scream to me "douchy used car salesman."

He certainly does to Harry; don't we have enough examples of Harry's prejudices and blindspots by this point to take those with a grain of salt ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Kindler on November 16, 2017, 05:58:43 PM
Christos came off as a quisling to me in Changes. It looks like he's actively aiding the Red Court.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Arjan on November 16, 2017, 06:48:07 PM
More important the rest of the senior council does not seem to trust him which tells us something.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Kindler on November 16, 2017, 06:56:05 PM
More important the rest of the council does not seem to trust him which tells us something.

He does have his Applause Squad/Brigade/Team/Detachment/Battalion.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Arjan on November 16, 2017, 07:13:56 PM
He does have his Applause Squad/Brigade/Team/Detachment/Battalion.
It should have been senior council.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Kindler on November 16, 2017, 07:34:42 PM
It should have been senior council.

Ah, I see. I was mostly being facetious anyway :)

The good news is that the Wardens also don't trust him; it was rank-and-file members of the Council who put down Ramirez and the Wardens, and who took Luccio out of play during Changes. Chandler was one of the only ones still operating.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 17, 2017, 02:21:40 AM
More important the rest of the senior council does not seem to trust him which tells us something.

That they're under Peabody's thumb ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 17, 2017, 02:24:17 AM
He does have his Applause Squad/Brigade/Team/Detachment/Battalion.

Just like Harry, really.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Arjan on November 17, 2017, 03:28:41 AM
Just like Harry, really.
Harry has a few friends and some connections. Christos must have much more to force a membership in the senior council like that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 20, 2017, 08:31:18 PM
Harry has a few friends and some connections. Christos must have much more to force a membership in the senior council like that.

The relative potential impact of Christos' constituents backing him, and Mab backing Harry in situations where he is hers and an insult to him is an insult to her, seems to me to skew in favour of the latter.

I don't think Harry could bully his way onto the Senior Council any time soon, but he is better positioned than any wizard except Eb to tell them to go whistle if they lean on him for something he doesn't like.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 20, 2017, 09:24:45 PM
Harry maybe doesn't need Mab to handle Cristos. WK Harry probably could some of the SC a good challenge by himself.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on November 21, 2017, 02:23:11 AM
Harry maybe doesn't need Mab to handle Cristos. WK Harry probably could some of the SC a good challenge by himself.

Harry being WK is very much an exercise of Mab's will, though, and we have seen what happens when he pushes the limits there too far; so if he were going up against the Senior Council it would need her approval, at least tacitly.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 21, 2017, 09:31:38 AM
I agree, would need Mab to nod her head before he did a Sub-Zero/Scorpion combo on Cristos.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Rasins on November 24, 2017, 04:32:02 PM
I agree, would need Mab to nod her head before he did a Sub-Zero/Scorpion combo on Cristos.

Why?

Depending on the circumstances, Mab doesn't care if Harry kills everyone in his way.  In fact, she'd prefer that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Arjan on November 24, 2017, 04:36:20 PM
Why?

Depending on the circumstances, Mab doesn't care if Harry kills everyone in his way.  In fact, she'd prefer that.
But if she gives a nod she will be responsible too which makes it safer for Harry.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Snark Knight on November 24, 2017, 06:33:09 PM
Depending on the circumstances, Mab doesn't care if Harry kills everyone in his way.  In fact, she'd prefer that.

She's in favour of him being brutal with nobodies.

If he used Winter power as leverage for internal White Council disputes, that could cause her trouble. He'd better have a good explanation if he ever has to go there. But I don't really see Harry disregarding the First Law to just up and murder Cristos anyway.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 25, 2017, 12:27:29 AM
Because getting supervisor approval helps with deniability.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Trebek on November 25, 2017, 05:12:10 AM
Additionally, the WC is a signatory to the Accords.  Harry wielding Winter power to attack members of the WC might be construed as a violation of the Accords.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Arjan on November 25, 2017, 06:34:03 AM
Additionally, the WC is a signatory to the Accords.  Harry wielding Winter power to attack members of the WC might be construed as a violation of the Accords.
It would be seen as an internal white council matter unless Harry is operating under Mab’s direction. But even then the accords don’t restrict violence that much they just offer a framework for resolving conflicts. If Harry killed Christos under Mab’s orders Mab could offer a weregeld to the white council and they could accept it or not.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 26, 2017, 01:00:49 AM
Or they could duel. But, that takes too much time.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book7 Summoning Outsiders
Post by: Arjan on November 26, 2017, 05:13:59 AM
Or they could duel. But, that takes too much time.
In white night Harry strolled in, challenged and a duel was set up almost immediately. But the same rule applies. The murders were not seen as a breach of the accords but as something for which another member of the accords had reason to ask for compensation.

The accords would then offer some framework to settle the dispute. The white council could have chosen to ignore it and then it would not have been an accord matter at all.