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The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => Topic started by: wardenferry419 on November 07, 2017, 11:26:45 PM

Title: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 07, 2017, 11:26:45 PM
How well did Nico know Maggie Sr?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: RobReece on November 08, 2017, 12:42:34 AM
probably not as well as papa Raith.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: raidem on November 08, 2017, 01:01:54 AM
Hmm. Did I ever mention my Nicodemus gets a redeemed and has a 2nd chance at life (reincarnation, soul put in another body) and takes the form of Malcolm Dresden.

So first, we have bad Nicodemus who respected Maggie Sr. taking aggressive steps to do what she thought was needed, etc.
Then we get Nic in the end gaining "sainthood".
Archangel balances out a "cheat" and is allowed to send his soul back in time, into a new body.
Malcolm Dresden meets Maggie Sr.

I know it doesn't answer your question but it touches upon my theory. So, there...
Oh, and I'm going blind seeing all these topics.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 08, 2017, 09:34:32 AM
Sorry about all the topics. I was playing in the Unsolved Mysteries thread and got carried away. That thread leads to madness. I was of the opinion that Nico might be a co-conspirator along with Raith, Arianna, and Maggie back in the day. She seem to like the really, really older crowd.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Rasins on November 08, 2017, 04:26:17 PM
Sorry about all the topics. I was playing in the Unsolved Mysteries thread and got carried away. That thread leads to madness. I was of the opinion that Nico might be a co-conspirator along with Raith, Arianna, and Maggie back in the day. She seem to like the really, really older crowd.

This is what I think.  I think he was at that dinner that Arianna and Pappa Raith were present for.  I think this is where he learns about a starborn and what it means.  His later investigations bring him knowledge about Hade's vault and everything after that is moving him toward the vault.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 08, 2017, 10:32:38 PM
I would say that Marcone has a greater animosity towards Nico than Harry does.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Rasins on November 09, 2017, 06:45:01 PM
I would say that Marcone has a greater animosity towards Nico than Harry does.

I can see why.  After all Nick was involved in John's abduction.

I've never understood Harry's animosity toward him from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Kindler on November 09, 2017, 07:29:44 PM
I can see why.  After all Nick was involved in John's abduction.

I've never understood Harry's animosity toward him from the very beginning.

The Nickelheads murdered Francisca Garcia in front of him. Harry has particularly strong reactions to anyone who hurts women.

Then there's Nic's actual introduction, where he's scary competent, and speaks like a dead-eyed sociopath. And makes out with his daughter, which grosses him out. Harry's terrified of Nic from the get-go, and he's pissed off.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Rasins on November 09, 2017, 07:59:41 PM
Sorry Kindler.  I meant Harry's hatred of Marcone.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Avernite on November 09, 2017, 08:03:40 PM
Sorry Kindler.  I meant Harry's hatred of Marcone.
Marcone leads a more violent version of the Chicago government.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Rasins on November 09, 2017, 08:05:50 PM
Marcone leads a more violent version of the Chicago government.

Yeah, but Harry seems to take it so personally.  I can understand his animosity toward the Nickelheads.  He's witnessed their atrocities.

But as of Storm Front, why?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Talby16 on November 09, 2017, 11:18:11 PM
Maybe we are to take it as a sign of his character that he hates corruption so much?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 09, 2017, 11:57:38 PM
Well, Nico had Shiro tortured and killed. Harry liked and respected Shiro. Shiro took Harry's place as the sacrifice for the shroud corruption.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: forumghost on November 10, 2017, 01:08:32 AM
Yeah, but Harry seems to take it so personally.  I can understand his animosity toward the Nickelheads.  He's witnessed their atrocities.

But as of Storm Front, why?

When Marcone met Harry he was trying to threaten him into letting a Warlock run loose for the sake of his rep.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 10, 2017, 01:23:05 AM
Marcone represents authority. Harry has a natural tendency to give authority the finger. He probably gets it from his mom.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: ticonderouga on November 10, 2017, 08:34:23 AM
Marcone represents authority. Harry has a natural tendency to give authority the finger. He probably gets it from his mom.

That and the whole Justin Dumorne betrayal thing, spending several years in the foster care system, his warlock trial, Morgan...

Harry has many compelling reasons for distrusting authority.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Rasins on November 10, 2017, 02:54:25 PM
Well, Nico had Shiro tortured and killed. Harry liked and respected Shiro. Shiro took Harry's place as the sacrifice for the shroud corruption.
That and the whole Justin Dumorne betrayal thing, spending several years in the foster care system, his warlock trial, Morgan...

Harry has many compelling reasons for distrusting authority.

That makes sense.  Still his hatred for Johnny Marcone seemed odd.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Kindler on November 10, 2017, 08:00:05 PM
Sorry Kindler.  I meant Harry's hatred of Marcone.

D'oh. That's on me. Pronouns, amirite?

Personally, I think his disdain and animosity for Marcone is for a few reasons. First: Harry works with the cops most of the time as of Storm Front (he'd have been bankrupt without them). Marcone has been making their lives hell. Harry's friendly with a lot of them—even vitriolic bros with Carmichael (whose Heroic Sacrifice in Fool Moon was, I think, the highlight of the book, especially when Carmichael tells everyone to do whatever Harry says, which is subtly excellent characterization for such a young writer like Jim was at the time).

Second, Marcone's business requires victims to be successful. Harry sees him as a predator, someone picking on the weak, kids notwithstanding.

Third, recall the total interaction. It starts with Harry being threatened and forced into the car. Harry responds to the threats with his normal flippancy. Marcone initially tries to offer him a wad of money, which Harry resents, because (let's face it) Young Harry regards himself the same way Don Quixote does (except they aren't windmills; they actually are giants), which pisses him off a bit, even if he does think about it.

Fourth, Marcone threatens Murphy. She and Susan are pretty much Harry's only friends, and Susan is more of an acquaintance.

Then they soulgaze, and Marcone scares the crap out of him.

As a sidenote, I really, really want to know what Marcone saw, because he started treating Dresden with an awful lot of respect after that. One of my favorite Marcone scenes is when he chucks the knife into Will's bicep for sassing him, basically because Will isn't Harry. Their Enemy Mine relationship is a whole lot of fun.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Talby16 on November 11, 2017, 09:21:47 PM
I also want to know what people see when they soul-gaze Harry. Maybe we will get a peek via someone else in the upcoming books.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 11, 2017, 09:33:24 PM
Maybe someday we will get the Harry and Murphy soulgaze with a shared POV.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Talby16 on November 11, 2017, 10:11:11 PM
One can only hope...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 11, 2017, 10:15:40 PM
As far as Maggir Sr. goes, someday I am going to go through each book with a notepad and record every mention of her ever made.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Arjan on November 12, 2017, 07:50:54 AM


That makes sense.  Still his hatred for Johnny Marcone seemed odd.
Why? Marcone is a crime lord. Harry wants to protect his own moral compass. He needs to create some distance even when they use each other. He antagonises Lara all the time for similar reasons.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: forumghost on November 12, 2017, 08:39:38 AM
Yeah but Marcone has a rule about hurting kids, so that makes him a good guy that never does anything bad, you see?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Talby16 on November 12, 2017, 02:26:03 PM
As far as Maggir Sr. goes, someday I am going to go through each book with a notepad and record every mention of her ever made.

You may have that chance depending on when Peace Talks comes out.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Arjan on November 12, 2017, 03:36:09 PM
You may have that chance depending on when Peace Talks comes out.
It will all be explained in the prequel Jim will publish after the bat is completed :)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 12, 2017, 08:47:08 PM
Is that a joke or are you serious? Because that would be great!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Arjan on November 12, 2017, 09:18:15 PM
Is that a joke or are you serious? Because that would be great!
I think Griffin can give you a synopsis of all three books and their covers.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 12, 2017, 09:32:55 PM
Got me good.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: Cozarkian on November 13, 2017, 04:29:30 PM
That makes sense.  Still his hatred for Johnny Marcone seemed odd.

Harry could easily abuse his magical skills to make a lot of money. Instead, he lives like a pauper while choosing to help and protect people. Marcone lives richly by exploiting people. Harry sees in Marcone a person that Harry could be if he were to slip up and take to big a step down the path of power, and Harry is terrified of becoming that person.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: jonas on November 13, 2017, 04:34:17 PM
Sorry Kindler.  I meant Harry's hatred of Marcone.
Cause despite what either might wish, in the others place they'd be making the exact same decisions. Hate the mirror, just like Maeve and Sarissa, the 'twinning' effect.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: wardenferry419 on November 13, 2017, 06:04:42 PM
Maybe replace the word "hate" with "envy." Might explain the behavior.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mystery Book5 Nico knows Maggie
Post by: jonas on November 14, 2017, 01:40:36 AM
Maybe replace the word "hate" with "envy." Might explain the behavior.
For the twins perhaps, but not for Harry and Marcone. Loathing is a good word there lol.