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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: g33k on December 07, 2016, 10:39:43 PM
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I am considering a DFRPG game, because almost all my players know and like the DF novels; but:
- I don't want to get into the issue of degrees to which different people remember the "canon" of DF novels/shorts, and differences-of-opinion as to what-things-meant, etc.
- Not everyone is equally up-to-date in the stories
- I don't want to get into the canonical plot/metaplot issues, including where-in-the-series (esp. pre/post "Changes") our game begins
- I don't want to stray into FanFic / MarySue territory, e.g. "My character is a BFF of Karrin Murphy"
- I *DO* want to start with lots of unknown setting-details they can discover in-character, through play. I'm planning to start maybe feet-in-the-water'ish (a bit clued-in, but most of what they "know" is pretty vague, no detail)
The rules (both Dresdenverse metaphysic, and DFRPG mechanics) and the "feel" of my 'verse will be the same-ish (I hope!), but few-to-none of the specifics will match. I'm hoping for some input/suggestions from the community here (hence, this post!) .
Some of my WIP ideas (so far, all subject to change):
I'm envisioning TWO sorts of diversion from Dresden canon. First: most of the supernatural elements will be similar-flavored but differently-detailed...
- NO Denarians with 30 coins. Probably instead the Seven Deadly Sins (one demon per, each with their own cultic followers); probably delving into Islamic "Iblis/Shaytan" and Hebraic "ha-satan," and possibly deciever/destructor figures from older mythologies.
- NO "Knights of the Cross." Probably a different (and varying) number of "relic-wielders:" sometimes just a few, sometimes dozens. The Church tries to identify these and offer them support, protection, etc (as per DF Knights); but these are direct Servants of God, and the Church isn't really in charge (the Boss got that "ineffable" thang goin' on, doncha know!). Some relics/wielders pass through the world unknown to the Church!. N.B: not all are "warrior" types!
- "Enlightened" and/or "holy" folk of other faiths (not just Abrahamic), with similar Holy Powers.
- YES to Blampires (I just can't let go of "Stoker's Guide to Vampire-Slaying" ! ;-) ) but a bit tweaked, likely a bit AnitaBlake-ish (different bloodlines = different powers) but always classic Blampire weaknesses (no Blakeian "Day-Walkers" dammit!).
- NO Whampires/Rampires; however, different-sorts-of-Vamps will still be A Thing:
- Ashanti Asanbosam
- Philippine Asawang
- Japanese Nukekubi
- others from 'round the world
- probably I'll add at least 1 wholly-invented sort (I'm working on a "Dream-Thief" vamp).
- ? ? ? Faeries -- deprecating the Winter/Summer thing, mostly. I'm considering a much-more-folkloric (and thus more-regional & less-unified) view
- Norse/Teutonic Ljosalfar/Dokkalfar (most-similar to DF-canon Summer/Winter)
- Celtic "Fair Folk" and then Yeats' "Trooping/Solitary" division, with bits of Seelie/Unseelie sometimes crossing that.
- Many other somewhat-faerie folkloric traditions (such as when the Blackstaff showed up with a small army of Kenku (traditionally called a form of "goblin" or even "demon" by some, but IMHO much more faerie-like) )
- Various other "Nevernever" beings may be "faerie-like" or not, depending
- There is DEFINITELY still a Wild Hunt! (I'd be too afraid of the consequences of slighting Them!)
Second, there will be some "alt-history" vs. the Dresdenverse; MANY things happened differently over the past few millenia:
- NO singular "White Council" of wizards. Probably instead something more fragmented:
- a semi-feudal "Olde Council" in Europe
- a semi-democratic "New Council" in North America
- a "Celestial Bureaucracy" governing Asian wizards... from a "court" in the Nevernever!
- a more-fragmented / non-governing group (except in the face of threat) of Afro+Caribbean Vodun/Bo Traditions
- etc...
- Kemmler happened. In fact, the Olde Council power-structure is STILL in shambles!
- Major "geosupernatural" tensions on the border of "New Council" and Vodun territories
- etc...
Basically, I'm looking at a 'verse that -- if I were to write it up in novelization form -- is clearly an homage to DF at best (and probably just a cheap rip-off). But as my in-house RPG... it's BOTH an homage AND a cheap rip-off, and I'm OK with that!
Extra brainstorming & input -- and criticisms of anything obviously or inobviously "broken" that I've missed -- are very very welcome!
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I think you can get a fair bit of mileage out of new characters wearing old hats. Much of the setting is the people in it; replacing Arthur Langtry with a different Merlin or Karrin Murphy with another police officer could give you a lot of change for little effort.
Then again, maybe the sweeping changes you're making will render that sort of thing unnecessary.
I think you might be running a little low on generic baddies if you're removing white and red vamps. Sure, you mentioned new vampire types, but they all sound fairly region-specific.
Maybe go with infectious werewolves, or have an easy-but-evil way to gain supernatural power. For example, perhaps there are tons of monstrous patrons ready to hand out blessings to anyone who sacrifices in their name. So you can always say, "He sacrificed a homeless man to Stev-Erican, now he has laser eyes and super strength" when you need to make a villain more physically threatening.
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Are you keeping the laws of Magic?
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I like the idea of modifying the setting and am myself very liberal regarding the "canon", although not as radical as you. Where should the story take place? This will also heavily influence the changes I think.
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Are you keeping the laws of Magic?
This is an important question as it's one of the main limiting factors on what people can and cannot do. Do the Laws Exist? Are they consistent for all "councils", or do for example the Voodoo folks have a more understanding view of "positive" necromancy? Do the different Council's practice noticeably different Magic types/styles or is it still more of a personal wizard choice?
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Go for it. Homebrew is awesome.
What if each 'council' of magic was a keeper of one of the Laws? That would imply an overarching understanding between all the organizations that, maybe, you're not intending. I think you want them to all be independent. But it might be cool to have different groups be able to practice methods of each law 'safely'.
So one group knows the secret to necromancy, another can study The Outside, another has studies the secrets and defense of Psychomancy, another deals with the secrets of Life and Death (possibly having a cabal of assassins).
Maybe go with infectious werewolves, or have an easy-but-evil way to gain supernatural power. For example, perhaps there are tons of monstrous patrons ready to hand out blessings to anyone who sacrifices in their name. So you can always say, "He sacrificed a homeless man to Stev-Erican, now he has laser eyes and super strength" when you need to make a villain more physically threatening.
This is a great idea. Besides, local folklore already exists in Dresden canon. Butcher just organized it a bit more into bigger factions. Lots of cultures have nature spirits and shrines to them.
Reskinning RCV and WCV would be a great way to create new creatures without all the hard work. You lose out on all the global supernatural politics, but you can just make up your own.
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At 5 refresh worth of abilities and 4 stats what are you expecting them to do? Why does it matter to them that a bunch of japanese people are being bitten by odd vampires? Why does it matter that there's tensions in africa or whatever? The group is going to fold like a wet handkerchief against a hurricane if anything well stated glances their way.
If you want to do monsters of the week or something that's fine, but I'm not sure why your players would care about all this.
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The feel a campaign really depends on all these details. Especially when city building and choosing what character they are going to build, what kinds of aspects they are going to take, what organizations they might be affiliated with etc....
Creating plots and hooks also matters.
As they grow in power, more of these details will unveil themselves and they can immerse themselves in the story.
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I *DO* want to start with lots of unknown setting-details they can discover in-character, through play.
It was noted that they won't know most details, so they can't really contribute much to city building, choosing of characters, aspects chosen, organizations joined because they won't know the setting details.
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He said "lots" not "most". There's a big difference.
And there's nothing wrong with the GM having secrets. As a player, I don't like knowing who all the bad guys are and I definitely like the prospect of discovery. I like to figure things out instead of knowing it all up front.
It was noted that they won't know most details, so they can't really contribute much to city building, choosing of characters, aspects chosen, organizations joined because they won't know the setting details.
I don't think it precludes players from doing character creation or city creation and adding their own details. Most of the things listed in the OP could be done in broad strokes. for instance, you could list the different councils of wizards and if they choose to play the European one, you reveal that they are in shambles because of Kemmler.
Or you mention there are various monsters and vampires based on region. If they play someone from Japan, you let them know some of the details from that area.
He never said he was keeping it all secret. He just wants aspects of the campaign to be discovery. The trick is giving enough bread crumbs to keep it interesting and giving them the freedom to explore the secrets. Otherwise you do lots of world building for nothing. In fact, discovery could be a City aspect.
Lastly, player knowledge and character knowledge are separate. Just because the players know there are councils, it doesn't mean there characters know. And a GM can't keep all secrets from a character that's making huge Lore declarations and assessments. In fact those kinds of skills are how you point them in the right direction.
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Feet in the Water characters can still travel the globe and see behind the scenes. And they can handle a few monsters.
From the sounds of things, this world might be easier for them to survive in than the canon one. Breaking up monolithic groups like the White Council makes the powerful less so.
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Feet in the Water characters can still travel the globe and see behind the scenes. And they can handle a few monsters.
From the sounds of things, this world might be easier for them to survive in than the canon one. Breaking up monolithic groups like the White Council makes the powerful less so.
On the other hand it opens up a lot more opportunity for infighting and feuds and even open war between "factions." Supernatural politics would be noticeably more complex. Conflicts would be smaller in scale but more frequent in number. Without the stability offered by those monoliths, could see the supernatural World being a lot more volatile.
And if all the monoliths are broken up in to factions and regional interests, are there any left with the weight to establish and enforce The Accords?
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GURPS Voodoo actually has a pretty cool "secret magic" setting that could give you a ton of great ideas. Society has been controlled by Illuminatti-esque secret practioners with different agendas. There are also numerous spirits and in-Betweeners that have their own agendas as well.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Voodoo/
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Thanks to all who have responded ! I'm thinking over your comments, and want to make a few responses to your questions, and report on my own current-thinking... :D
@Sanctaphrax -- I can replace some characters, sure. But a lot of that just comes with a City-Build: they'll hardly run into Murph, or the Alpha's, if the game is set in "San Francisco" or "California Wine Country" or whatever (I pick those as local-to-us). It's more the organizations and institutions where I want to twiddle the details... preserve the overall "feel" of the Dresdenverse, but have players (who are fans of the books) NOT automatically recognize and categorize every foe, every group.
When I began gaming -- Lo! those many years ago -- I read and re-read the AD&D MM cover-to-cover between the time I got my grubby little mitts on it, and the next time the group met to play. I recognized EVERY creature as soon as the GM described it, and for the next several game-sessions I could recite HP/AC/Damage, special attacks & special weaknesses, faster than the GM could turn to the page... The same happened when I met "Gamma World," etc. I know other gamers who are the same... and I have more than one of them in my group! Sure, having everyone know I was The Guy who could tell them if it was a pushover or a run-away was fun egoboo for my teen self... But actually, the most gaming fun seems to be had by "discovery" (always presuming you aren't caught-out by making stupid presumptions that, IC'ly, your PC wouldn't have made!) .
Anyone who's a "Wizard's Apprentice" (or has other alliance to the White Council), in stock D'verse, will be able to quickly check on the bona fides of any caster they meet. Players will assume any Council-governed wizard will adhere to the Laws of Magic and more or less follow approved standards of behavior. With many Council's, around the world ... ? Not so much. Etc Etc Etc for each of the significant power-players in the canon. Then there is the issue of varying player info: some players are fully up-to-date with the novels, all shorts, the graphic novels, etc. Some are still lagging by some years' of publication. Some have clearer recollection than others. Etc. So my differences will "level the playing field" for IC-vs-OOC info.
There is NO way in the stock Dresdenverse to get that genuine "learn about it by encountering it" feel. That sense of discovery is a wondrous thing!
I'll probably need to do some player-handout notes for each of my new power-groups & Famous Entity... maybe a 3x5 for "what everyone who's Clued-In knows about <X>" and a half-sheet or more for "closer acquaintance with <X>" ...
@Shaft (and others who followed up this point) -- YES to keeping the "Laws of Magic." They are an inherent part of the Dresden "feel," IMHO. I'm probably going to have some of the Wizard Councils keep one or another of the Laws a bit more lax than others keep them... Also, thanks for the tip RE "GURPS Voodoo!" GURPS books are usually top-notch resources for ANY gamer in ANY system, so that goes to the top of my Shortlist! Also, FWIW, I have (and plan to mine for setting-inspiration) the same author's "Witchcraft" (the standalone Unisystem rpg).
@Sanctaphrax/@Nepene/@etc RE travel -- Yes, they might go places where odd/foreign monsters exist. Also, the USA has enough "regional enclave" subcultures that MANY oddities may get imported (or grow locally); and don't forget that many monsters might be entirely capable of getting on board an airliner or a cargo-ship, too! They could show up in Middle America entirely without their traditional trappings... and where folks don't know their traditional weaknesses!!!
@ Nepene (and others) RE the power-level -- yeah, I'll start them on weak things; stuff that will terrorize a town filled with Muggles (no-Clue, 1-3 Refresh) will probably be not too much of a challenge to a coordinated team of semi-Clued 5ish-Refresh PCs. I expect to grow them FAST, too: likely a milestone every session or every other session. However (at y'all's suggestion) I'm revisiting the starting power-level. It's a fine line between "powerful enough to be interesting" but not "so powerful the characters should/would already know at least a little bit about most of the major players." Murphy, for example, went from wild-eyed-at-the-existence-of-the-supernatural in Restoration of Faith to "Toe-to-Toe with a Supernatural Heavyweight" in Changes; I'd like something closer to early-Murphy than early-Dresden, so the PLAYERS get that full progression...
RE city-building and character-building in "ignorance" of the world -- These are some VERY valid points. I confess I hadn't actually gotten that far in my own planning ::) I'll take a stab at it. As always, comments welcome... encouraged... c'mon, don't make me beg... - This will be standared DFRPG steps, I expect. Break out them 3x5's!
- Players will know up-front that it's using the DFRPG rule-set in an "inspired by the DF" setting, so they'll have a sense of the world, the scope of character, etc.
- Obvious major Powers -- faeries and other beings of the Nevernever, certain Old Gods, those touched by the Divine, etc, will clearly be A Thing (but WHICH specific Ones -- ahhh, there's the rub!).
- They will understand that they are just-barely-clued-in, and will learn more in-play.
- During the "Build" steps, the PC's 3x5 cards will be floating around.
- My own "what everybody knows" 3x5's will be doled out as part of that.
Anyone whose High Concept and/or Trouble justify special knowledge will be handed the specific 3x5 to study, and asked to hand that one 'round the group when done (cos EVERYBODY WITH A CLUE knows it, yo!)
THEN they will get the expanded info on a "For Your Eyes Only" basis, to keep and refer to later. - Anyone who gets an "expanded info" sheet will be welcome to engage with me secretly, or with the whole group if they prefer, to alter or expand that "expanded info" to make it better match their character or the campaign.
- At some point (probably near-ish the end), any of my "what everybody knows" 3x5's that got mentioned or touched-upon will get handed 'round, so ideas they had will have an instance in the game-world; the "expanded info" sheets obviously reserved for later.
- Other 3x5's & "expanded info" sheets I will set aside, and only introduce as-needed or if-needed.
So... Where are we at now?
Ahh, yes -- @Taran, I think, has seen the way I want to approach this: lots of Discovery, both as a trope in play and likely formalized in City Aspects (although I want to be open-minded about "City" -- might call it "Campaign" instead, so they aren't too bound to Urban or even Suburban games). The achievement of "Disovery" as not just a character but a player experience!
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There is NO way in the stock Dresdenverse to get that genuine "learn about it by encountering it" feel.
That's not true at all. There's all kinds of weird stuff in the Dresdenverse that players don't know anything about. I've never had trouble coming up with unfamiliar monsters or types of person in the stock Dresdenverse.
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When I began gaming -- Lo! those many years ago -- I read and re-read the AD&D MM cover-to-cover between the time I got my grubby little mitts on it, and the next time the group met to play. I recognized EVERY creature as soon as the GM described it, and for the next several game-sessions I could recite HP/AC/Damage, special attacks & special weaknesses, faster than the GM could turn to the page... The same happened when I met "Gamma World," etc. I know other gamers who are the same... and I have more than one of them in my group! Sure, having everyone know I was The Guy who could tell them if it was a pushover or a run-away was fun egoboo for my teen self... But actually, the most gaming fun seems to be had by "discovery" (always presuming you aren't caught-out by making stupid presumptions that, IC'ly, your PC wouldn't have made!) .
There's an easy way around this and I used it to great effect in D&D: I reskinned the description of monsters. All my long time players had no clue what they were fighting and it added excitement and mystery to the encounters.
"There's a slime covered dog that is killing all the sheep in the village"
What the hell could it be? I used the stats of a troglodyte.
You just rejigger the descriptions and the usual tropes around things like orcs and stuff and the players have no idea what they are facing. The same can be done in Dresden.
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@Sanctaphrax & @Taran -
I seem to have mis-spoken. (I'd arrogantly accuse you of willfully misunderstanding ('cos I never "IMHO" I always "IMAO" (being just that arrogant)) but it's 2 of you and only 1 of me, so I'm forced to be reasonable: if you BOTH "misunderstood" it's obviously *I* who mis-spoke). :o
I intended the D&D-monsters as a simile: not mainly about any specific monsters of DF (so it's about re-skinning them or using obscure ones), but about the broad factions. It isn't so much whether the D&D player recognize an "Ogre," or the DFRPG player recognizes a "Ghoul." Rather, it's that I want to not simply re-name "the White Council" into "Merlin's RoundTable" & "Arthur Langtry" into "Andrew Laughton." After all, I'll be advertising this as a game that is (at least) "inspired by" DF. If the details behind the names are the same, they will peg the identities in short order:- O-kaaaay! worldwide wizard's council... CHECK
- scary-ass mofo's... CHECK
- On the face of it, mostly / more-or-less TheGoodGuys(tm)... CHECK
- Actually rather arrogant; sometimes morally-ambiguous in their presumption of GoodGuy-ness... CHECK and MATE!
"WE HAVE OUR WHITE COUNCIL, FOLKS!" Then they have pre-set expectations (which may differ from one to another, or from my own understanding: always a problem). And they will approach the Council, and interact with it, based on those expectations. They WON'T experience/discover the Council as they encounter it, as an evolving in-play relationship (I suppose I could make it a very-different worldwide Council, but honestly my "Regional Councils" notion seems to me to increase the potential stories/characters).
And so on, for multiple divergences...
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If that is your concern, I think it would be worth your time to write up a brief cheat-sheet for your players. Nothing long or complicated, maybe as simple as an outline with a list of the major (known) factions and a couple-sentence description with their publicly know reputation/description. The more they know about your world, the less they'll feel the need to fill in the blanks with Dresdenverse bits. Just make sure to leave some blank spots on the list, and maybe a few "unconfirmed" factions based on rumor (akin to the Jade Court of actual DF) so there is still a sense of mystery and discovery out there. Something like:
Wizardry
- Council of the Wise - North America: Contemporary/Modern Wizards, Democratic structure, internal struggles between Native, European and African factions. Moderate Military forces
- Regnomagicae - Europe: Classic Wizard tradition, isolationists, Aristocracy by "noble" magic bloodlines.
- Court of the Sun - Africa: Loose coalition of tribal and cultural leaders throughout africa. Ruled/administered by Egyptian faction until 20th century. Now under Vodun faction control. Interests vary by region.
- [unknown] - Asia: The practices of Eastern wizardry are largely unknown to the western magical populace.
- Aetherites - Near NeverNever: Wizard nation in near NeverNever. Founded by refugees during the Inquisition, Established Demense in NN via unknown means. Control most Ways travel through nearby Natural lands (Fae lands in DF).
- Aetherites " Competator" - NeverNever (?): Details unknown, Aetherites do not discuss, but they visibly prepare against antagonistic actions.
Vampires
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If that is your concern, I think it would be worth your time to write up a brief cheat-sheet for your players. Nothing long or complicated, maybe as simple as an outline with a list of the major (known) factions and a couple-sentence description with their publicly know reputation/description. The more they know about your world, the less they'll feel the need to fill in the blanks with Dresdenverse bits. Just make sure to leave some blank spots on the list, and maybe a few "unconfirmed" factions based on rumor (akin to the Jade Court of actual DF) so there is still a sense of mystery and discovery out there. Something like:
Wizardry
- Council of the Wise - North America: Contemporary/Modern Wizards, Democratic structure, internal struggles between Native, European and African factions. Moderate Military forces
- Regnomagicae - Europe: Classic Wizard tradition, isolationists, Aristocracy by "noble" magic bloodlines.
- Court of the Sun - Africa: Loose coalition of tribal and cultural leaders throughout africa. Ruled/administered by Egyptian faction until 20th century. Now under Vodun faction control. Interests vary by region.
- [unknown] - Asia: The practices of Eastern wizardry are largely unknown to the western magical populace.
- Aetherites - Near NeverNever: Wizard nation in near NeverNever. Founded by refugees during the Inquisition, Established Demense in NN via unknown means. Control most Ways travel through nearby Natural lands (Fae lands in DF).
- Aetherites " Competator" - NeverNever (?): Details unknown, Aetherites do not discuss, but they visibly prepare against antagonistic actions.
Vampires
Almost exactly, that; yes!
Honestly, the "what everybody knows" cheatsheet is probably going to be even more abbreviated; I'm really liking the notion of "world cards" from the GM during character & city build session; the 3x5 format fits well into that session, I think. I'll probably compile those into that single "cheatsheet" format (after session-1): whatever the players actually glom onto gets "canonized." The rest falls by the wayside.
For everybody with some Clue -- but lacking an insight into the higher politics/culture of wizards -- will be a pair of cards about Wizards. Typical PCs for this might be:
- a low/mid grade Paranet member
- a Pure Mortal who got (a little bit) Clued-in by a wizard
- some other Supernaturals like a Were' pack-member
- etc.
They all know roughly the same stuff, and get these 2 cards:
"General Wizards" card --
Human wizards are organized into a series of regional councils/coalitions/whatever's, each rather different from the others; little more than a pact of non-aggression connects each, though all hold to a similar set of laws. You know a bit more about the North American council (because you live here and have had decades to put together snippets overheard).
"North American Wizards" card --
Theoretically a "true" 1-wizard-1-vote democracy, it's rife with internal factions & rivalries; some factions are virtually powerless. There are several FirstNation groups, at least a couple of "WASP"-y ones, Asian & African ones, and likely others. Laws definitely include some version of "Thou shalt not kill" (but with odd exceptions, because those bastards DO kill ! ) .
Someone who grew up comparably, but NOT in North America, would get a different "Regional Wizards" card.
Then someone even more info, such as...
- one of the above, with an Aspect suggesting extra info
- Wizards' Apprentice
- Focused Practitioner
- Senior/Powerful Paranet'er
would know more than that: probably a half-page or so on the North American council (most of the factions, most of the main individuals), and brief "cards" (akin to the NorthAmerican one) on probably 2-3 other "regional councils".
Unless they have an Aspect indicating some special "political savvy" or "well-connected" -- then they know even more!
As another example, someone magical who was "Raised on the Res" (the Reservation) might know of all the "First Nation" factions in some depth, in addition to the "general wizardry info" cards above.
Etc...
Once PC's and City/Campaign is built, I'll know what's important-enough to get onto the "everybody knows" cheat-sheet.
Ideally, I'd get unique in-character info -- cards or half-pages that are NOT "everybody knows" info -- delivered in-character by the PC... maybe even with extra detail added by that player's own creative input! I'd LOVE to get that level of buy-in from them... 8)