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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Razgrizi on June 25, 2016, 02:30:58 PM
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Good Saturday Morning! I hope everyone is doing well and is not working too hard this Saturday morning! I had some questions about two characters I am DMing in a game and I would love everyones advice on the matter, including a campaign session.
As a disclaimer, my group is JUST starting off building characters and our first session is in a month, so you might have to dumb it down for me!
Firstly, one of my players wanted to play a ghost, specifically something along the lines of a Danny Phantom (yay if you remember that show!) I have two questions, one revolving his backstory and the other about what powers you would recommend he could take?
1. We already worked out his backstory to be able to get him to being a ghost. We know for sure we wanted him to have an 'earthly item' that was not easily destroyed so he could have a presence on the planet. In addition, we had the idea that the way he is able to have ghost powers in any way was because he was a knight, follower, or emissary of an Egyptian god. I believe it was Nepethys (sp?) In addition to the thing that would kill him if destroyed, we also figured that his Egyptian god would want something in return, so hes thinking of one thing he could never get back until hes truly dead. Regardless, we both had an idea but were not sure if this would work or not.
A. We thought, to add some freshness to his character and such, because hes a 'ghost' the only way for him to use those ghost powers would be to possess a dead body. Obvious advantages and disadvantages (no same identity, but not healing for example), but would that be something that is doable? I havent found anything otherwise. In addition, we figured that he could possess a living host but it would be for a finite amount of time, say 6 hours or something. The second idea was he can become a 'ghost' with those type of powers but someone has to 'babysit' his body. The final idea was something along the lines of 'Xehanort' final boss from Kingdom Hearts, where his powers manifest as a 'shadow' and he can use both at the same time, with the shadow connected allowing him to use 'ghost powers' while the other is him 'disattaching' and being a true ghost but again someone would have to babysit his body. Any thoughts or recommendations?
B. What powers would you recommend for him
2. For my character, I am running a mermaid. I pretty much have her figured out about how I would wish to play her, stats, and her curse (water turns her into a mermaid). I had two question however.
A. For her, I figured that water turns her into a mermaid, like a significant splash or like a full body. I had a secondary idea though as well and I wasnt sure if that is doable. In the theme of mermaid, I figured she would want water, whether it be craving it or has to go swimming. Should I incorporate that as a hunger for her, in that in the early stages, she has to drink more water than usual but, if she ignores it for a long enough time, say a week, she craves going into a pool to be her mermaid self? Is that too much drama to add? How would the DM handle that mechanically?
B. Im having some trouble getting some motivation for my mermaid. For example, as a mermaid, I have some of powers including Aquatic, Inhuman Speed (fins only), and Incite Emotion: Lust. But, as a human, I feel she wont be contributing as much as I would like. Do you have any recommendations on something reasonable obviously that a mermaid could do as a human that would benefit the group? I initially thought I wanted her to be a research heavy or 'item' creating character, but the former looks to be taken by another character and the later would require being a wizard (i think.) I would want her to do something interesting that does contribute.
C. Finally, for a mermaid, what would you recommend for weapons? I figured in her human and mermaid form, there should be something that, when she transforms, doesnt weigh her down. So obviously, something like a firearm or a sword would be bad. I had initially knives, taser, and pepper spray. Any ideas? Same as a mermaid? Do mermaids have a natural defense I am not thinking of?
3. FINALLY! I had an idea that I would love everyones recommendatoin on. So far, I am planning out a session for my players. I have their first 5 done, but I need some help in forming the 6th one. In this sixth one, from the DM side, Mab is gonig to visit them due to the heightened supernatural activity, including involving a fae (one of my players character is a Fae.) To 'test' them (for story elements later revealed) I was going to have them play a game of Munchkin. So, my idea was in the first two turns, have it run normally, but then, by turn 3 or 4, stuff starts to happen. For example, the first thing to happen was a labrynth was going to appear and spearate them out. Another was the sqaures they are in turn into random effects, ala pool of water, smokescreen, etc. Another was a minotaur would appear. But, I wanted to make it more interesting as well as, if a player outright wins, they 'keep' whatever items they gained, or if they made it to the end and beat the final boss, they would get an item of power. But, i wanted to make it more interesing, as in for the fae to say that whoever comes in last dies, players who die in the game die in real life, or players who dont win keep a curse or something to make them want to work together, such as not using Wandering Monster cards, etc. How would you add to something like this and, in a larger retrospect, how would you incorporate elements to outwit the fae, as in nobody dies, for example?
Thank you all so much this will help with anything you think is great! :D
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Firstly, one of my players wanted to play a ghost, specifically something along the lines of a Danny Phantom (yay if you remember that show!) I have two questions, one revolving his backstory and the other about what powers you would recommend he could take?
1. We already worked out his backstory to be able to get him to being a ghost. We know for sure we wanted him to have an 'earthly item' that was not easily destroyed so he could have a presence on the planet. In addition, we had the idea that the way he is able to have ghost powers in any way was because he was a knight, follower, or emissary of an Egyptian god. I believe it was Nepethys (sp?) In addition to the thing that would kill him if destroyed, we also figured that his Egyptian god would want something in return, so hes thinking of one thing he could never get back until hes truly dead. Regardless, we both had an idea but were not sure if this would work or not.
A. We thought, to add some freshness to his character and such, because hes a 'ghost' the only way for him to use those ghost powers would be to possess a dead body. Obvious advantages and disadvantages (no same identity, but not healing for example), but would that be something that is doable? I havent found anything otherwise. In addition, we figured that he could possess a living host but it would be for a finite amount of time, say 6 hours or something. The second idea was he can become a 'ghost' with those type of powers but someone has to 'babysit' his body. The final idea was something along the lines of 'Xehanort' final boss from Kingdom Hearts, where his powers manifest as a 'shadow' and he can use both at the same time, with the shadow connected allowing him to use 'ghost powers' while the other is him 'disattaching' and being a true ghost but again someone would have to babysit his body. Any thoughts or recommendations?
B. What powers would you recommend for him
If you go with dead bodies:
Take living dead. Take an aspect regarding possession, so that you can be compelled to lose your body, or invoke it to take over others. Then take a bunch of powers and your 'ghost form' is just the fluff of how you go from one body to another. If you want, take Spirit Form and Human Form. Attach Living Dead and a bunch of other powers to your Human form to represent your possession of a dead body.
Possessing living people:
It's complicated and may limit you. Once again you can just take an aspect to reflect that you are a spirit in someone else's body and let the GM compel you to be kicked out.
Theogony probably has advice regarding this character build
For the baby-sitting thing. I don't really know. maybe that can be the catch to your toughness powers. If your body is injured while it is unattended, it takes damage?
2. For my character, I am running a mermaid. I pretty much have her figured out about how I would wish to play her, stats, and her curse (water turns her into a mermaid). I had two question however.
A. For her, I figured that water turns her into a mermaid, like a significant splash or like a full body. I had a secondary idea though as well and I wasnt sure if that is doable. In the theme of mermaid, I figured she would want water, whether it be craving it or has to go swimming. Should I incorporate that as a hunger for her, in that in the early stages, she has to drink more water than usual but, if she ignores it for a long enough time, say a week, she craves going into a pool to be her mermaid self? Is that too much drama to add? How would the DM handle that mechanically?
I think compels should take care of it fairly well. With an appropriate aspect (cursed mermaid) the GM can just compel you to go soak in water...whether you need it or not. The irresistible call of the ocean. Or get splashed at an inappropriate time or whatever.
If you wanted, you could require salt water for some of your powers to work. So, if you have a recovery power, it doesn't work until you soak in salt water. So, Hunger would represent the fact that you are slowly losing your abilities and getting injured until you have time to soak in water. You could even tie some powers to a limitation. You can only recover powers when in salt water.
So, maybe, attach toughness/recovery to Hunger...I'm not sure what else...
C. Finally, for a mermaid, what would you recommend for weapons? I figured in her human and mermaid form, there should be something that, when she transforms, doesnt weigh her down. So obviously, something like a firearm or a sword would be bad. I had initially knives, taser, and pepper spray. Any ideas? Same as a mermaid? Do mermaids have a natural defense I am not thinking of?
I think of spears and tridents for mermaids. Who needs weapons when you have incite lust? Take Incite Potent Effect and do mental damage instead.
B. Im having some trouble getting some motivation for my mermaid. For example, as a mermaid, I have some of powers including Aquatic, Inhuman Speed (fins only), and Incite Emotion: Lust. But, as a human, I feel she wont be contributing as much as I would like. Do you have any recommendations on something reasonable obviously that a mermaid could do as a human that would benefit the group? I initially thought I wanted her to be a research heavy or 'item' creating character, but the former looks to be taken by another character and the later would require being a wizard (i think.) I would want her to do something interesting that does contribute.
I'll copy/paste my earlier advice from another thread:
In human form, She can have beast senses(echo-location and the ability to aquatic creatures (think Aquaman). with a high Investigation/Alertness, she'd be very useful.
Instead of powers, in human form, you could deck her out with stunts so she can fill a roll that the others can't (social/Investigative)
Maybe even give her a recovery power outside of her mermaid form.
Also, maybe getting wet is enough for her to change?
Give her Incite Emotion (like a siren) which would boost her social prowess.
In mermaid form: aquatic, speed, toughness(scales)(with a +3 catch if they're also taking recovery), possibly claws. (-3 or 4 refresh, which is -1 or 2 after human form). Therefore, most of her powers would be in her human form. Which would probably be the most useful.
TLDR: Make her human form a social power house. Especially with incite lust. High deceit/rapport. The mermaid form will probably get less use, so limit how much refresh you take there. Any mermaid powers that can be used in both forms (like beast senses) are better than ones that can only be used in mermaid form.
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1. We already worked out his backstory to be able to get him to being a ghost.
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B. What powers would you recommend for him
Spirit Form is a must. I'm not too fond of the canon version, though, so I'd suggest this homebrew version (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Spirit+Form).
I'd also suggest homebrew for inhabiting corpses (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Inhabit) and possessing living bodies (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Possession), but Taran's approaches could work.
2. For my character, I am running a mermaid. I pretty much have her figured out about how I would wish to play her, stats, and her curse (water turns her into a mermaid). I had two question however.
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In the theme of mermaid, I figured she would want water, whether it be craving it or has to go swimming. Should I incorporate that as a hunger for her, in that in the early stages, she has to drink more water than usual but, if she ignores it for a long enough time, say a week, she craves going into a pool to be her mermaid self? Is that too much drama to add? How would the DM handle that mechanically?
...
B. Im having some trouble getting some motivation for my mermaid. For example, as a mermaid, I have some of powers including Aquatic, Inhuman Speed (fins only), and Incite Emotion: Lust. But, as a human, I feel she wont be contributing as much as I would like. Do you have any recommendations on something reasonable obviously that a mermaid could do as a human that would benefit the group?
...
C. Finally, for a mermaid, what would you recommend for weapons?
I don't recommend using the hunger mechanics, they're problematic. Better just to use Compels.
Incite Lust could work in human form too. Take the upgrade that lets you attack with it and you'll be fine without carrying any kind of weapon.
3. FINALLY! I had an idea that I would love everyones recommendatoin on. So far, I am planning out a session for my players. I have their first 5 done, but I need some help in forming the 6th one...
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. It seems unlikely that your plans will remain intact that long.
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Spirit Form is a must. I'm not too fond of the canon version, though, so I'd suggest this homebrew version (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Spirit+Form).
I'd also suggest homebrew for inhabiting corpses (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Inhabit) and possessing living bodies (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Possession), but Taran's approaches could work.
I don't recommend using the hunger mechanics, they're problematic. Better just to use Compels.
Incite Lust could work in human form too. Take the upgrade that lets you attack with it and you'll be fine without carrying any kind of weapon.
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. It seems unlikely that your plans will remain intact that long.
Which is Taran's version? In addition, why would you not use hunger? Is that nickel and diming too much for character?
Now, this is where I do need it more explained, but how could I use incite lust as a weapon? I know mental attacks are a thing too, but what if something is too dumb to get a mental attack?
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I think of spears and tridents for mermaids. Who needs weapons when you have incite lust? Take Incite Potent Effect and do mental damage instead.
How would I incorporate a trident that would be easy to carry around? Would it need to be an item of power? Not like, Posidens Trident,but something that changes appearance when used in a mermaid form?
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If you are going to spend refresh to make a weapon that can shrink and grow, the. You might as well spend refresh on incite potent emotion instead. Is there a reason you want a physical weapon? Mental attacks are way more powerful.
If you want a shrinking trident, make it a pendant that turns into a trident. Only give yourself a +1 rebait.
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If you are going to spend refresh to make a weapon that can shrink and grow, the. You might as well spend refresh on incite potent emotion instead. Is there a reason you want a physical weapon? Mental attacks are way more powerful.
If you want a shrinking trident, make it a pendant that turns into a trident. Only give yourself a +1 rebait.
Im more thinking long terms, such as when something is a mindless creature and isnt affected by mental attacks. Unless I am mistaken?
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I suppose. The question you have to ask is: is the refresh investment and skill investment worth rare circumstances.
If you're playing in a game with lots of zombies, then it's probably worth it(since it'll come up often). If not, it might rarely get used.
To be effective in a fight with a weapon, you need to have your weapons skill at 3 or 4 (in a submerged game), otherwise, it's kind of useless in a fight. So which skill are you going to drop to make room for that skill? You'll probably want to invest a few refresh into a weapon too...maybe a stunt or an IoP.
On the other hand, in a fight against an opponent that's immune to mental attacks, you can use athletics or rapport to do maneuvers to create aspects for your allies to tag. Just because you can't use a weapon, it doesn't mean you're completely useless.
But that's just my playing style. I really like to focus. I like to cover all my bases but I like being specialized.
Why don't you post what you have?
If you don't want a socially oriented character, you could take a powerful IoP that can be used in human form and be a fighter-type in both forms.
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I suppose. The question you have to ask is: is the refresh investment and skill investment worth rare circumstances.
If you're playing in a game with lots of zombies, then it's probably worth it(since it'll come up often). If not, it might rarely get used.
To be effective in a fight with a weapon, you need to have your weapons skill at 3 or 4 (in a submerged game), otherwise, it's kind of useless in a fight. So which skill are you going to drop to make room for that skill? You'll probably want to invest a few refresh into a weapon too...maybe a stunt or an IoP.
On the other hand, in a fight against an opponent that's immune to mental attacks, you can use athletics or rapport to do maneuvers to create aspects for your allies to tag. Just because you can't use a weapon, it doesn't mean you're completely useless.
But that's just my playing style. I really like to focus. I like to cover all my bases but I like being specialized.
Why don't you post what you have?
If you don't want a socially oriented character, you could take a powerful IoP that can be used in human form and be a fighter-type in both forms.
I can start posting what I have once all players and such finalize their characters, which shouldnt be too long :)
With that said, one other question arose, which may answer too whether I would want a weapon or not. Is it possible that, in the mechanics system, a human could do some wizardry magic without being a wizard? I keep on thinking like creating a circle, enchanting items, etc. Im trying my best to stay away from being a wizard, but simple magical items, like potions, enchanted one time use items, etc. Is that just limited to wizards? And if not, how would I incorporate them?
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Which is Taran's version?
This:
If you go with dead bodies:
Take living dead. Take an aspect regarding possession, so that you can be compelled to lose your body, or invoke it to take over others. Then take a bunch of powers and your 'ghost form' is just the fluff of how you go from one body to another. If you want, take Spirit Form and Human Form. Attach Living Dead and a bunch of other powers to your Human form to represent your possession of a dead body.
Possessing living people:
It's complicated and may limit you. Once again you can just take an aspect to reflect that you are a spirit in someone else's body and let the GM compel you to be kicked out.
In addition, why would you not use hunger? Is that nickel and diming too much for character?
I don't like Feeding Dependency. It's unclearly written, it can be unbalanced in either direction depending on character build, and I haven't been impressed with the ways it shapes the story (or fails to do so) in the games I've used it in.
Now, this is where I do need it more explained, but how could I use incite lust as a weapon? I know mental attacks are a thing too, but what if something is too dumb to get a mental attack?
Then your attack doesn't work. Not the end of the world.
With that said, one other question arose, which may answer too whether I would want a weapon or not. Is it possible that, in the mechanics system, a human could do some wizardry magic without being a wizard? I keep on thinking like creating a circle, enchanting items, etc. Im trying my best to stay away from being a wizard, but simple magical items, like potions, enchanted one time use items, etc. Is that just limited to wizards? And if not, how would I incorporate them?
If you want to enchant items, buy some form of Thaumaturgy. Either the real thing or Ritual (Crafting).
The often-ignored Common Ritual trapping of Lore is good for stuff like making a circle, but how it works is up to you and your GM.
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This:
I don't like Feeding Dependency. It's unclearly written, it can be unbalanced in either direction depending on character build, and I haven't been impressed with the ways it shapes the story (or fails to do so) in the games I've used it in.
Then your attack doesn't work. Not the end of the world.
If you want to enchant items, buy some form of Thaumaturgy. Either the real thing or Ritual (Crafting).
The often-ignored Common Ritual trapping of Lore is good for stuff like making a circle, but how it works is up to you and your GM.
Is there a difference between Thaumaturgy and Ritual (Crafting)? And, from what I was reading in the book, either would make me a wizard. Is there a way around that or most likely not?
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Ritual is the small, focused version of thaumaturgy that only allows you to do something thaumaturgic in a narrow field (for example crafting, but it can be other areas as well).
The templates that have access to the ritual power are the focused practitioner and the sorcerer. The wizard has to take full Thaumaturgy. However, you don't have to stay with the templates, they are more like guidelines for easy play. If something doesn't fit the templates but still makes sense, build the character without a template.
What kind of potions do you want to do? If they are all supposed to fit in a very narrow field, there might be other ways to do them as well. Until then, my post in the kitchen Witch thread might help:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,47900.msg2236252.html#msg2236252
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Ritual is the small, focused version of thaumaturgy that only allows you to do something thaumaturgic in a narrow field (for example crafting, but it can be other areas as well).
The templates that have access to the ritual power are the focused practitioner and the sorcerer. The wizard has to take full Thaumaturgy. However, you don't have to stay with the templates, they are more like guidelines for easy play. If something doesn't fit the templates but still makes sense, build the character without a template.
What kind of potions do you want to do? If they are all supposed to fit in a very narrow field, there might be other ways to do them as well. Until then, my post in the kitchen Witch thread might help:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,47900.msg2236252.html#msg2236252
I was thinking of doing potions that could give one time enchantments to items for one time usage. I was thinking of wanting to make my mermaid's human side more along making potions like from Harry Potter. Think things that she cant make until she gathers certain ingredients, which would come from along from beating supernatural creatures or exploring certain parts of the Nevernever. In addition, I was thinking of making her MAYBE something like either a Hunter from Supernatural (a very inexperienced one) or a Spirit Detective from Yu Yu Hakusho for her expertise in creatures and potions.
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there's a custom power that let's you use potions...bag of Tricks, I think?
https://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Bag+Of+Tricks
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If you want to have trouble gathering ingredients for your potions, you should take a related Aspect that can be Compelled. Because by default, all that stuff is abstracted away.
Is there a difference between Thaumaturgy and Ritual (Crafting)? And, from what I was reading in the book, either would make me a wizard. Is there a way around that or most likely not?
Neither will make you a wizard, you need a whole bunch of other powers for that. But anyone who can make their own potions is a spellcaster.
As Haru said, Thaumaturgy does everything Ritual does and more.
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If you want to have trouble gathering ingredients for your potions, you should take a related Aspect that can be Compelled. Because by default, all that stuff is abstracted away.
Neither will make you a wizard, you need a whole bunch of other powers for that. But anyone who can make their own potions is a spellcaster.
As Haru said, Thaumaturgy does everything Ritual does and more.
So, if I wanted to focus on Thaumaturgy, I would need to be a wizard and, in a nutshell, take things a wizard would? If I didnt go the wizard route (if thats possible) how limited would I be in Thaumaturgy?
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So, if I wanted to focus on Thaumaturgy, I would need to be a wizard and, in a nutshell, take things a wizard would? If I didnt go the wizard route (if thats possible) how limited would I be in Thaumaturgy?
you can take Thaumaturgy without being a wizard. You just neeed a background reason why you'd have thaumaturgy. Maybe you were learning magic from someone who wasn't sanctioned by the White Council and a Transformation Ritual went horribly wrong and that's how you got cursed as a mermaid. Your teacher/partner got turned into a fish and died. (or whatever)...maybe he's a fomor and was tricking you the whole time.
So, you can't do evocation, but you can do thaumaturgy. You have all the abilities that that power provides, including doing rituals, taking refinements, creating potions/enchanted items etc...
You'd want Lore to be one of your highest skills to get full use of thaumaturgy, though.
And to clarify what Sanctaphrax said: Thaumaturgy makes you a SPELLCASTER. It Does NOT make you a WIZARD.
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you can take Thaumaturgy without being a wizard. You just neeed a background reason why you'd have thaumaturgy. Maybe you were learning magic from someone who wasn't sanctioned by the White Council and a Transformation Ritual went horribly wrong and that's how you got cursed as a mermaid. Your teacher/partner got turned into a fish and died. (or whatever)...maybe he's a fomor and was tricking you the whole time.
So, you can't do evocation, but you can do thaumaturgy. You have all the abilities that that power provides, including doing rituals, taking refinements, creating potions/enchanted items etc...
You'd want Lore to be one of your highest skills to get full use of thaumaturgy, though.
And to clarify what Sanctaphrax said: Thaumaturgy makes you a SPELLCASTER. It Does NOT make you a WIZARD.
Interesting! Now, if Thaumaturgy was my option, what would be the the for sure stuff I would need to take? I think the group is starting at Feet in the Water so we can build up characters, so I only have 3 refresh to work with.
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Well, Thaumaturgy gives you 2 focus item slots which translate to 4 enchanted item and thus potion slots. That's 4 potions per session, as it were, at a strength of your lore skill. If you put your free specialization, which comes with thaumaturgy, on potions, you get potions at a strength of Lore+1.
You can buy refinement, which will give you 4 potion slots for 1 refresh. You can spend a potion slot on a new potion or to get 2 additional uses on an existing one. I've explained this in more detail in the kitchen witch thread I linked to earlier.
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Well, Thaumaturgy gives you 2 focus item slots which translate to 4 enchanted item and thus potion slots. That's 4 potions per session, as it were, at a strength of your lore skill. If you put your free specialization, which comes with thaumaturgy, on potions, you get potions at a strength of Lore+1.
You can buy refinement, which will give you 4 potion slots for 1 refresh. You can spend a potion slot on a new potion or to get 2 additional uses on an existing one. I've explained this in more detail in the kitchen witch thread I linked to earlier.
For that, could you elaborate a bit then mechanics wise whats the difference between a spellcaster and a wizard then? At least how I read it, it seems like one is a focused practitioner while the other is a full blown wizard. If one is a spellcaster, are they bound to the mandatory powers that magic users have to take, like the Third Eye?
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Well, a wizard is a spellcaster, but a spellcaster is not necessarily a wizard, if that makes sense.
Anyone who is able to cast spells is by definition a spellcaster. That's simply a description. A wizard is a human spellcaster that is also powerful enough to be a member of the White Council. He doesn't need to be a member, but he needs to be powerful enough to count as one. Elaine, for example is powerful enough to count as a wizard, but she flunked her test, so she is not a white council member. Then again, the Queens of fairy are powerful enough, but they are not human, so they are powerful spellcasters, but not wizards.
Plus, "wizard" is also a mechanical term in the game, meaning "having the wizard template", which you also don't have to have, since there are other templates that allow for spellcasting abilities.
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For that, could you elaborate a bit then mechanics wise whats the difference between a spellcaster and a wizard then? At least how I read it, it seems like one is a focused practitioner while the other is a full blown wizard. If one is a spellcaster, are they bound to the mandatory powers that magic users have to take, like the Third Eye?
No, you are not bound to anything. Nothing is mandatory. But, If you want to Play a White Council wizard, you do have to take the mandatory powers.
Mechanics-wise, there's no difference between a non-wizard character who has thaumaturgy and a Wizard character (with thaumaturgy).
The power, Thaumaturgy, works the same for both.
A Wizard must have the Sight and Evocation as well as Thaumaturgy in order to be recognized by the White Council. Anything less is a 'minor' talent with some magical ability. Being a Wizard is mostly a story thing, but you must have the minimum required Powers to qualify as one.
A Focused Practitioner does not have Thaumaturgy because they are focused. Therefore, the only take Ritual with a single type of Thaumaturgic category.
Your character is a 'minor talent' who knows how to do varied types of rituals. So you are more flexible as a ritualist (since you're not limited to one specific type of Ritual) but you are not a full-blown Wizard because you don't have the Sight. Or Evocation.
Also, keep in mind, when I say 'Minor Talent', I'm not talking about the Template from the book. I'm just talking about someone with some minor magical ability.
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No, you are not bound to anything. Nothing is mandatory. But, If you want to Play a White Council wizard, you do have to take the mandatory powers.
Mechanics-wise, there's no difference between a non-wizard character who has thaumaturgy and a Wizard character (with thaumaturgy).
The power, Thaumaturgy, works the same for both.
A Wizard must have the Sight and Evocation as well as Thaumaturgy in order to be recognized by the White Council. Anything less is a 'minor' talent with some magical ability. Being a Wizard is mostly a story thing, but you must have the minimum required Powers to qualify as one.
A Focused Practitioner does not have Thaumaturgy because they are focused. Therefore, the only take Ritual with a single type of Thaumaturgic category.
Your character is a 'minor talent' who knows how to do varied types of rituals. So you are more flexible as a ritualist (since you're not limited to one specific type of Ritual) but you are not a full-blown Wizard because you don't have the Sight. Or Evocation.
Also, keep in mind, when I say 'Minor Talent', I'm not talking about the Template from the book. I'm just talking about someone with some minor magical ability.
So, essentially, if I wanted to go that route, I would be bound, in game of course, by the Laws of Magic and other stuff, but I dont have to take necessary things like the Sight or Evocation?
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So, essentially, if I wanted to go that route, I would be bound, in game of course, by the Laws of Magic and other stuff, but I dont have to take necessary things like the Sight or Evocation?
How bound you are is up to your gaming group. If your character is human, well you are most likely bound though.
/Ulfgeir
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How bound you are is up to your gaming group. If your character is human, well you are most likely bound though.
/Ulfgeir
Well, technically speaking, no matter the backstory Im giving them, they would be a mermaid. But, they do have a human form. So, technically speaking, if I casted as a mermaid, I could get away with it correct?
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Well, technically speaking, no matter the backstory Im giving them, they would be a mermaid. But, they do have a human form. So, technically speaking, if I casted as a mermaid, I could get away with it correct?
Most likely yes, but I think though that if you were coming to the attention of any wardens, well they wouldn't exactly invite you over for tea. And if they think of you as a NON-human, well then they are not bound to avoid using magic in trying to kill you.
/Ulfgeir
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Well, technically speaking, no matter the backstory Im giving them, they would be a mermaid. But, they do have a human form. So, technically speaking, if I casted as a mermaid, I could get away with it correct?
The wardens are usually quite trigger happy. If you do something against the laws or against a human being, they will probably not think too long. On the other hand, they'll need to find you first.
If you are part of a court, you'll have protection by that court, and the wardens will probably not just hunt you down. But they might ask your superiors to keep an eye on you, or your superiors might do so themselves, if you behave too out of line.
Though, maybe your superiors want you to behave exactly like that, and they put a lot of red tape between you and the wardens to let you keep doing what you're doing.
To that end, you could take sponsored magic instead, with the limitation that it only allows you thaumaturgy stuff. It would be pretty much like thaumaturgy regarding the rules for potions, but you'd have a sponsor added to that. A sponsor gives you an agenda, something the sponsor will push you to do, even if you might not want it or realize it. And it allows you to take sponsor debt in order to do something. For example, increasing the power of a potion on the fly.
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The wardens are usually quite trigger happy. If you do something against the laws or against a human being, they will probably not think too long. On the other hand, they'll need to find you first.
If you are part of a court, you'll have protection by that court, and the wardens will probably not just hunt you down. But they might ask your superiors to keep an eye on you, or your superiors might do so themselves, if you behave too out of line.
Though, maybe your superiors want you to behave exactly like that, and they put a lot of red tape between you and the wardens to let you keep doing what you're doing.
To that end, you could take sponsored magic instead, with the limitation that it only allows you thaumaturgy stuff. It would be pretty much like thaumaturgy regarding the rules for potions, but you'd have a sponsor added to that. A sponsor gives you an agenda, something the sponsor will push you to do, even if you might not want it or realize it. And it allows you to take sponsor debt in order to do something. For example, increasing the power of a potion on the fly.
Sponsored magic would be along the lines of a god or goddess correct? Or something like Nicodemus, being a Wizard apprentice, etc?
Story element wise, would it be a good drama to have both involved? Im still finalizing the backstory, with some recent recommendations Ive gotten, but if the mermaid was initially a human and now mermaid, would a drama element being the Wardens wanting to control that characters magic versus,say, the Court of Atlantis wanting to as well because of their recent transformation?
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It can be virtually anything, as long as you can explain how that would be able to grant you power. In your case, wasn't there a Fae involved that cursed the mermaid somehow? She could easily be the sponsor in this case, either willing, to make you dependent on her, or unwilling, and you have access to her power through the curse. Both are great opportunities to get involved in the story. Or maybe the sponsor is simply her ancestry, the debt would be that she is forced to act within her nature, against her free will.
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It can be virtually anything, as long as you can explain how that would be able to grant you power. In your case, wasn't there a Fae involved that cursed the mermaid somehow? She could easily be the sponsor in this case, either willing, to make you dependent on her, or unwilling, and you have access to her power through the curse. Both are great opportunities to get involved in the story. Or maybe the sponsor is simply her ancestry, the debt would be that she is forced to act within her nature, against her free will.
Perfect. Thank you for helping btw! Im still learning the books myself so having someone guide and clarify a lot is really helpful. The character creation itself is pretty self explanatory, but the Aspect and Background, including balancing for refresh, is intriguing.
Another question for you. One player of mine wants to do a wizard but wants his power to come from drawing cards from a deck. He thought about things like Magic or Yugioh, where, say if he needed a creature, he would need to roll high enough plus possibly pay for it through a fate token. How would that work? Is that a summoning/evocation?
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Another question for you. One player of mine wants to do a wizard but wants his power to come from drawing cards from a deck. He thought about things like Magic or Yugioh, where, say if he needed a creature, he would need to roll high enough plus possibly pay for it through a fate token. How would that work? Is that a summoning/evocation?
I think the easiest thing to do here would be to use an Item of Power
-2 Magical Deck of Summoning Cards
+1 Rebate (what it is: a deck of cards. Easily concealable)
-3 Evocation
Summoning just works as regular attacks/maneuvers/blocks.
For instance, if you want to cast a weapon 3 evocation attack, you cast, like normal but narrate it as drawing a card, throwing it on the ground where a monster appears, runs across to your target, hits them with its claws then immediately disappears.
Compels:
- losing your deck of cards
- zone borders: or magical creatures can't get across where your target is (normally evocation is range of sight)
- anything that might come up when casting from a deck of cards or summoning monsters.
The important thing is none of your summoned creatures are permanent, except where you put in extra duration.
Like a giant earth elemental guarding you and deflecting attacks (cast as a block against attacks that lasts multiple rounds)
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That sounds like it could also be a sort of sponsored magic thing. Mainly, because it allows "thaumaturgy at evocation's speed and methods" or evothaum for short. Something like being able to make drawings come to life for a short time.
Then, there is a difference between the means and the end, which is important in Fate. Usually, summoning the creature will not be the end, it is the means by which you do something. You summon a frightening creature to scare someone. You summon a strong creature to break through a door. You summon a flying creature to quickly move from A to B. And so forth. All of that can be done with the "simple task" thaumaturgy rules. Evothaum allows you to do this as evocation as well, not just as a longer ritual.
But since you'd have access to both evocation and ritual, you'd be able todo attack spells etc. as well, the full range.
Then again, you could model this a number of other ways, as well. For example with "modular abilities". This costs 2 points of refresh and as many more as you like. The more you pay, the more points you have to choose from. So if you pay 4 refresh total for modular abilities, you could have powers worth 2 points of refresh to switch around. You could then make a list of cards you can draw and have a list of powers you get with that card. For example, drawing a small dragon could grant you the "breath weapon" power, because you can order the dragon you summoned to throw around fire.
If you've got the desired cards in physical form, just make a deck and a list which card gives which powers and when he wants to change the power, he doesn't choose which card he gets, he has to draw it from the deck.
I would probably grant him the "human form/involuntary change" rebate for that as well.
I hope you can at least somewhat follow me. This is where it gets complicated. :D
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I think the easiest thing to do here would be to use an Item of Power
-2 Magical Deck of Summoning Cards
+1 Rebate (what it is: a deck of cards. Easily concealable)
-3 Evocation
Summoning just works as regular attacks/maneuvers/blocks.
For instance, if you want to cast a weapon 3 evocation attack, you cast, like normal but narrate it as drawing a card, throwing it on the ground where a monster appears, runs across to your target, hits them with its claws then immediately disappears.
Compels:
- losing your deck of cards
- zone borders: or magical creatures can't get across where your target is (normally evocation is range of sight)
- anything that might come up when casting from a deck of cards or summoning monsters.
The important thing is none of your summoned creatures are permanent, except where you put in extra duration.
Like a giant earth elemental guarding you and deflecting attacks (cast as a block against attacks that lasts multiple rounds)
Could you clarify something for me? Ive been trying to find this and just cant seem to find it. How do you know the values of rebate? I know the hidden versus obvious rebate, but what about for other things?
For the duration, would that mean spending a fate point to make them last longer than one attack?
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Could you clarify something for me? Ive been trying to find this and just cant seem to find it. How do you know the values of rebate? I know the hidden versus obvious rebate, but what about for other things?
Look under Items of Power. you get a +2 or a +1 depending on how recognizable/easy it is to spot or remove. I could see situations where you wouldn't get any rebate at all.
For the duration, would that mean spending a fate point to make them last longer than one attack?
Attacks don't go for multiple exchanges. I'm not sure a GM would allow you to put duration on an attack. At the very least, you should have to spend your turn focusing on the attack every round.
Things like blocks require duration. So for every exchange you want your block to last, you have to invest a shift of power. An invoke on an aspect could add more duration if your GM is up for it.
For invoking, you might do it for things like this:
There's a heavy metal door 2 zones away and you want to prevent people from getting through.
You choose to put a block on the door/zone border.
You cast a 4 shift block vs movement and narrate it as a Summoned Troll blocking the way. He closes the door and holds it closed against enemies trying to pass through. You want it to last 2 extra rounds, so it'll cost you 6 shifts total.
Or, you could cast a 4 shift maneuver and put 'closed door' on the scene. The the GM uses the door's natural border to prevent people from getting through. (let's say it's 7). But it's easy to open an unlocked door. Really, a supplemental will open the door. Evocation is 'quick and dirty' so you couldn't manipulate the lock on the door with a spell, instead you can only slam it shut. But, since you have a Troll closing the door, you can spend a FP to say the troll closes the door and locks it by sliding the bar/latch. Then the troll disappears.
Now the GM rules that a heavy, locked metal industrial door is a zone border of 7 that lasts for the rest of the scene until someone busts through it/jimmies the lock. This is the advantage of having a unique evocation. But you have to invoke specific aspects to have a spell do more than what is possible with basic spellcasting.
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Look under Items of Power. you get a +2 or a +1 depending on how recognizable/easy it is to spot or remove. I could see situations where you wouldn't get any rebate at all.
Attacks don't go for multiple exchanges. I'm not sure a GM would allow you to put duration on an attack. At the very least, you should have to spend your turn focusing on the attack every round.
Things like blocks require duration. So for every exchange you want your block to last, you have to invest a shift of power. An invoke on an aspect could add more duration if your GM is up for it.
For invoking, you might do it for things like this:
There's a heavy metal door 2 zones away and you want to prevent people from getting through.
You choose to put a block on the door/zone border.
You cast a 4 shift block vs movement and narrate it as a Summoned Troll blocking the way. He closes the door and holds it closed against enemies trying to pass through. You want it to last 2 extra rounds, so it'll cost you 6 shifts total.
Or, you could cast a 4 shift maneuver and put 'closed door' on the scene. The the GM uses the door's natural border to prevent people from getting through. (let's say it's 7). But it's easy to open an unlocked door. Really, a supplemental will open the door. Evocation is 'quick and dirty' so you couldn't manipulate the lock on the door with a spell, instead you can only slam it shut. But, since you have a Troll closing the door, you can spend a FP to say the troll closes the door and locks it by sliding the bar/latch. Then the troll disappears.
Now the GM rules that a heavy, locked metal industrial door is a zone border of 7 that lasts for the rest of the scene until someone busts through it/jimmies the lock. This is the advantage of having a unique evocation. But you have to invoke specific aspects to have a spell do more than what is possible with basic spellcasting.
I havent had time to respond cause Ive had a crazy two days at work but I will tonight! With that said, I wanted yours and haru's opinon. As a starting DM, I had some ideas for sessions, but I need more of an explanation on something. In my 4th session, I was thinking about having the party actually do a full combat battle, not just with mental, and I was thinking a Frost Giant (story element is the literal troll under the bridge). Let me put what was posted first
Frost Giant
High Concept: Spawn of the Jotuns
Other Aspects: Master of Frost; Big But Not Stupid
Skills:
Superb: Weapons
Great: Discipline, Endurance, Might
Good: Athletics, Conviction, Intimidation, Lore
Fair: Alertness, Fists, Presence, Survival
Other physical skills default to Average, others to Mediocre.
Powers:
Hulking Size [-2]
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+2]: Fire
Unseelie (Jotunheim) Magic [-4]
Stress:
Mental OOO
Physical OOOOOO(OOOO), Armor:2
Social OOOO
Total Refresh Cost: -14
Notes: Uses an enormous, ice-rimed sword (normally Weapon:3, Weapon:7 due to strength). Its Unseelie Magic is not truly from Winter Faerie, coming from the power of Jotunheim instead, but it is mechanically identical to true Unseelie Magic.
This frost giant is a small one, only about 14' tall and weighing slightly over a ton. They grow much larger, however; such frost giants will have Mythic Strength and/or Toughness, and possibly greater Recovery. The giants are highly variable in form; some might have Claws or a Breath Weapon. Frost giants with greater magical powers might wield Glamours or Greater Glamours, or full Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and perhaps some Refinement. Jotuns (eldest and strongest of the kind) approach plot-device level; Utgard-Loki, were he to reappear, might well be a match for Uriel or a Faerie Queen.
Now, were starting off with Feet in the Water before we actually move, after about 6 sessions, to Knee Deep (the second lowest? Forgot what it was called). Would this be impossible for a group of seven characters to beat? Should I massively tone it down?
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That sounds like it could also be a sort of sponsored magic thing. Mainly, because it allows "thaumaturgy at evocation's speed and methods" or evothaum for short. Something like being able to make drawings come to life for a short time.
Then, there is a difference between the means and the end, which is important in Fate. Usually, summoning the creature will not be the end, it is the means by which you do something. You summon a frightening creature to scare someone. You summon a strong creature to break through a door. You summon a flying creature to quickly move from A to B. And so forth. All of that can be done with the "simple task" thaumaturgy rules. Evothaum allows you to do this as evocation as well, not just as a longer ritual.
But since you'd have access to both evocation and ritual, you'd be able todo attack spells etc. as well, the full range.
Then again, you could model this a number of other ways, as well. For example with "modular abilities". This costs 2 points of refresh and as many more as you like. The more you pay, the more points you have to choose from. So if you pay 4 refresh total for modular abilities, you could have powers worth 2 points of refresh to switch around. You could then make a list of cards you can draw and have a list of powers you get with that card. For example, drawing a small dragon could grant you the "breath weapon" power, because you can order the dragon you summoned to throw around fire.
If you've got the desired cards in physical form, just make a deck and a list which card gives which powers and when he wants to change the power, he doesn't choose which card he gets, he has to draw it from the deck.
I would probably grant him the "human form/involuntary change" rebate for that as well.
I hope you can at least somewhat follow me. This is where it gets complicated. :D
I can tell! Its very complicated along those lines as its almost trying to get my player to pick and choose what he wants. If he wants a creature or if he wants, essentially, environmental effects. How would that work short term versus long term, in the sense of evothaum. Is there a particular element or power he should take to help him?
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I can tell! Its very complicated along those lines as its almost trying to get my player to pick and choose what he wants.
That's working as intended.
If he wants a creature or if he wants, essentially, environmental effects. How would that work short term versus long term, in the sense of evothaum. Is there a particular element or power he should take to help him?
Well, the sponsored magic version would be more complicated but also more versatile. You can do anything with it, as long as you can describe how your magic can do it.
The modular abilities version is more work up front and less versatile, but it is a lot easier to use, since you can avoid the magic rules altogether.
With the evothaum version, you'd basically just say "I play this trap card, which binds an opponent when he attacks me", which would basically just be an evocation block without any fuss. But he could also just solve a lot of problems with magic by having the right cards available. It's not so much about any element, the deck of cards would have its own sort of magic, outside of the standard elements.
For the sponsored magic version, you'd just need to take sponsored magic (deck of magical cards) and think up an agenda for the deck. Maybe a former magician resides in the deck, maybe it was created by someone that wants it to be used in a certain way, etc. That agenda can be used to deal with debt. You could also think about using different skills than the regular ones. Performance would for example fit a deck of cards from a magician.
For the modular abilities version, we'd need to set up the modular abilities first. I'm not sure at the moment how much refresh you'll play with, if it was mentioned earlier, I couldn't find it. Let's stay low and assume a feet in the water campaign.
Since the deck of cards is an item, we can go with an item of power discount, albeit a small one. The basic write up would look like this:
Deck of Cards (Item of Power) [-4]
Modular Abilities [-2]
3 Form points [-3]
small/concealable [+1]
So having the deck like this costs 4 refresh. The next step would be to list the cards. I'm not too familiar with Yugioh, so I'll just go with something generic.
Small red Dragon [-3]
Breath Weapon (fire) [-2]
How to tame your dragon (Stunt): Use presence to use breath weapon, when you can order your Small red Dragon to set something on fire.
So any time you draw the "Small red Dragon" card, the 3 Form points from "Modular Abilities" get filled with the powers and stunts on the "Small red Dragon" card, listed above. What happens in the game is that the character draws and plays the card, a small, red dragon appears, and he can order it around to do stuff, which will mostly be setting things on fire. This under the assumption that you will do a lot of summoning and your presence skill would be better than your weapons skill, which seems appropriate for the kind of character you describe.
Now you just need to create a list of cards he has in his deck. All of them can have powers worth 3 or less refresh, and he can only ever use one of the cards at a time. Before he can use another card, he would have to dismiss the old one and draw the new one, which costs him an action (it's what "changing your powers" takes under modular abilities). You can also add new cards throughout the campaign, whenever you feel like it might be appropriate. You don't even have to look for a reason, it's a card he always had in his possession, he just didn't use it before. That way, you don't have to have everything written out up front, a good deck can have quite a lot of cards, I imagine.
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Frost Giant
High Concept: Spawn of the Jotuns
Other Aspects: Master of Frost; Big But Not Stupid
Skills:
Superb: Weapons
Great: Discipline, Endurance, Might
Good: Athletics, Conviction, Intimidation, Lore
Fair: Alertness, Fists, Presence, Survival
Other physical skills default to Average, others to Mediocre.
Powers:
Hulking Size [-2]
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+2]: Fire
Unseelie (Jotunheim) Magic [-4]
Stress:
Mental OOO
Physical OOOOOO(OOOO), Armor:2
Social OOOO
Total Refresh Cost: -14
Notes: Uses an enormous, ice-rimed sword (normally Weapon:3, Weapon:7 due to strength). Its Unseelie Magic is not truly from Winter Faerie, coming from the power of Jotunheim instead, but it is mechanically identical to true Unseelie Magic.
This frost giant is a small one, only about 14' tall and weighing slightly over a ton. They grow much larger, however; such frost giants will have Mythic Strength and/or Toughness, and possibly greater Recovery. The giants are highly variable in form; some might have Claws or a Breath Weapon. Frost giants with greater magical powers might wield Glamours or Greater Glamours, or full Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and perhaps some Refinement. Jotuns (eldest and strongest of the kind) approach plot-device level; Utgard-Loki, were he to reappear, might well be a match for Uriel or a Faerie Queen.
Now, were starting off with Feet in the Water before we actually move, after about 6 sessions, to Knee Deep (the second lowest? Forgot what it was called). Would this be impossible for a group of seven characters to beat? Should I massively tone it down?
I think this would be pretty deadly, depending on your group. If you have someone tough to take a few hits, you should be good while everyone works as a team to build up aspects and hit the giant hard. Especially if they can muster a Catch.
That said, it defends melee and attacks at superb while the group attacks and defends, at best, at Great. So, they are on average going to fail to defend and take 8 stress in a given hit...which is a consequence or two.
So, if they don't work well together, they are going to have problems.
If they have a wizard, it'll go down easier because its ranged defense is lower and wizards hit harder, especially if the wizard uses fire magic.
So, I'm thinking they'll get hurt a bit - someone may get hurt badly or be forced to concede but, overall if they work together, they can probably take it out quickly.
But, like I said, if they don't use a weapon with a catch and don't work together, the giant will pummel them because, statistically, it can defend most of what they can dish out.
But there are the concession rules, so I don't think it's likely going to kill anyone.
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Good morning! I actually have some more information to ask you all since my group and I had our first workshop for our character creations and city building.
In the mermaid I have, I have listed Aquatic, Inhuman Speed, and Incite Emotion. One of my players brought this to my attention. Should I have two separate builds, like the wereforms, where my refresh is rearranged for my mermaid? They said it seems like I would have things for my mermaid that I would not have for my human form.
In addition, after seeing what I would have, they wondered if I needed to add in a tail for my refresh?
Finally, they came up with an idea that I am having trouble with applying. More for setting up in the future,but they liked the idea someone suggested here that myself and a partner were working on a magical construct when a fae messed with it, unknown to us, and it exploded, resulting in the mermaid. One of the recommendations they had was that, since I would be a mermaid, they think I would have access to alchemy, specificially water. They had the idea based off of Full Metal Alchemist.
Seeing as I have not seen the show, do the mechanics support water alchemy? The most I found was the fotes and being able to do four things reactively. How would that work in general in Dresdenverse? In addition, if I was able to use fotes actively, how would they work in combat? As an example, if I turned water into ice to hold someone in place?
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post your character and we can help you tweak it.
In the mermaid I have, I have listed Aquatic, Inhuman Speed, and Incite Emotion. One of my players brought this to my attention. Should I have two separate builds, like the wereforms, where my refresh is rearranged for my mermaid? They said it seems like I would have things for my mermaid that I would not have for my human form.
well, you have to list what abilities fall under human form and which ones don't.
So, your character would look like this:
-1 incite emotion
+1 human form (affecting):
-2 Inhuman speed
-1 aquatic
so, incite emotion can be used any time. The other powers can only be used while transformed.
If you want to also have a skill-swap, you need to take a shapeshifting power.
In addition, after seeing what I would have, they wondered if I needed to add in a tail for my refresh?
No. unless you want to attack with it, in which case, you'd take Claws.
Inhuman speed already represents your ability to swim fast (ie: you have a tail)
If I take the ability to shift into a bird, I'd take wings and diminuitive size. I probably wouldn't take claws even though my character has a beak. And, just because I didn't take Claws, it doesn't mean my character doesn't have a beak. It just means he's not very useful at attacking with his beak. In fact, it doesn't even mean he can't attack with a beak. It just means his beak does almost no damage when he attacks.
You know what I'm saying?
Finally, they came up with an idea that I am having trouble with applying. More for setting up in the future,but they liked the idea someone suggested here that myself and a partner were working on a magical construct when a fae messed with it, unknown to us, and it exploded, resulting in the mermaid. One of the recommendations they had was that, since I would be a mermaid, they think I would have access to alchemy, specificially water. They had the idea based off of Full Metal Alchemist.
Seeing as I have not seen the show, do the mechanics support water alchemy? The most I found was the fotes and being able to do four things reactively. How would that work in general in Dresdenverse? In addition, if I was able to use fotes actively, how would they work in combat? As an example, if I turned water into ice to hold someone in place?
Yeah. I haven't watch tonnes of Full Metal Alchemist but from what I watched it's Ritual: transformation. Most people need to make a circle to do anything. Only the really talented people can do it quickly without a circle. Some of those people might just have really high lore and foci. Others have items that let them do transformation at the speed of evocation.
Some can just do evothaum.
Anyways, that's how I interpret Alchemy from FMA.