ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: chris_moore on September 26, 2007, 04:47:06 PM
-
Okay, so I thought I'd appeal to the man himself. When I heard that Evil Hat Productions was going to do a Dresden Files rpg, I was extremely happy. Now, I'm hopeful (because they are a great company) but worried. Here's why: when I play Dresden Files the RPG, I want the rules to help me create my own Dresden Files novel. I don't want the rules to cover how many feet Murphy can run in six seconds, like so many other rpgs's have done with fan fiction. I'm not saying that Evil Hat will do this, but I want rules that show me how to create scenes, and conflicts, and story arcs. I want the game broken down into chapters, not "turns" or "rounds". Only something like this will do your wonderfully fun novels the justice they deserve. If you have any influence in this matter, please exert it. Your gamer fans will appreciate it!
-
Our sensibilities live very much where yours do, Chris. That's not to say there won't be some crunch -- that sort of thing will become particularly relevant when the "Fuego!" starts flying. But much like with Spirit of the Century, we think we'll hit a good compromise between traditional sensibilities and story-game priorities.
-
Yes!! I'm so happy to hear this! I'll be waiting for the call to playtest...?
Chris
-
Chris, have you had a chance to read either the FATE or Spirit of the Century RPG rules sets? I think a quick read-though would ease some of your worries.
DFRPG will be based on the games mentioned above, not d20 or Rolemaster or any of the other really numbers-driven games.
-
I'm kinda torn about the game. (Yes, I know it's not out yet. I'm still torn, though. I'm pre-torn! ;D )
On the other hand, the fate system has some pretty cool stuff. On the other hand, it's too narrative or "Forgey" for my taste. I mean, I flipped through the Spirit of the Century SRD and found that it looked good, but the level of abstraction left a bitter taste in my mouth. I like my games pretty simulationist, but with some metagame elements to stress themes and passions - the Spiritual Attributes in The Riddle of Steel are a particular favourite of mine in this regard. The OP should however, I imagine, find the game to their liking. Me... I dunno. I hope so. It's just that some of the modern systems feel to me like reading a book where the author got lazy and decided to use excessive author fiat to get the plot go the way they needed to rather than having the events proceed logically from the elements established.
Don't take this as a slam on your game, however. It's a matter of taste, not of quality. And I'll definitely keep my eye on the game anyway, in case it surprises me positively.
-
I'm kinda torn about the game. (Yes, I know it's not out yet. I'm still torn, though. I'm pre-torn! ;D )
On the other hand, the fate system has some pretty cool stuff. On the other hand, it's too narrative or "Forgey" for my taste. I mean, I flipped through the Spirit of the Century SRD and found that it looked good, but the level of abstraction left a bitter taste in my mouth. I like my games pretty simulationist, but with some metagame elements to stress themes and passions - the Spiritual Attributes in The Riddle of Steel are a particular favourite of mine in this regard. The OP should however, I imagine, find the game to their liking. Me... I dunno. I hope so. It's just that some of the modern systems feel to me like reading a book where the author got lazy and decided to use excessive author fiat to get the plot go the way they needed to rather than having the events proceed logically from the elements established.
Don't take this as a slam on your game, however. It's a matter of taste, not of quality. And I'll definitely keep my eye on the game anyway, in case it surprises me positively.
I'm on the other side of the fence regarding the story based game systems. I survived the simulationist games and just want the game to focus on story now. Especially a game based on a book series. I'm on the same page as Chris Moore about this. And I was happy with Iago's response, because I'm okay with some crunching when it makes sense. I've submitted an application for our group and my fingers are crossed!
-
I'm on the other side of the fence regarding the story based game systems. I survived the simulationist games and just want the game to focus on story now. Especially a game based on a book series. I'm on the same page as Chris Moore about this. And I was happy with Iago's response, because I'm okay with some crunching when it makes sense. I've submitted an application for our group and my fingers are crossed!
Cool! No matter my personal opinions, I hope the game turns out to be the best you've ever had! 8)
-
Cool! No matter my personal opinions, I hope the game turns out to be the best you've ever had! 8)
Absolutely and without a doubt!
-
I'm actually specifically waiting for The Dresden Files RPG so I can tell stories in that world. For actual games requiring more crunch (only in my view of course) such as the Night Watch/Day Watch game I intend to run I will be using Monte Cook's World of Darkness.
Having reviewed Spirit of the Century I think the core system when adapted for TDF will be a good match. We have already read how Evil Hat are trying to specifically emulate the magic and combat for the setting. That can only fill you with hope we will get a useful product at the end! ;D
-
I'm actually specifically waiting for The Dresden Files RPG so I can tell stories in that world. For actual games requiring more crunch (only in my view of course) such as the Night Watch/Day Watch game I intend to run I will be using Monte Cook's World of Darkness.
Having reviewed Spirit of the Century I think the core system when adapted for TDF will be a good match. We have already read how Evil Hat are trying to specifically emulate the magic and combat for the setting. That can only fill you with hope we will get a useful product at the end! ;D
Wait...Night Watch/Day Watch game? You mean, like based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko? TELL ME MORE! Though, you should probably do so in a messege or somethin cuz ya know, it's not exactly on topic ^^;
-
Wait...Night Watch/Day Watch game? You mean, like based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko? TELL ME MORE! Though, you should probably do so in a messege or somethin cuz ya know, it's not exactly on topic ^^;
I thought the same thing! (I just finished Night Watch).
What I hope to see in the Dresden RPG is the freedom for players to have as much say in the game as the GM. As I was reading through the posts, I realized that's what I maybe hadn't clearly stated. For me, the games that allow that are the only ones that are any fun any more.
-
I agree discussion of Night Watch related matters can be done by PM. PMs have been sent.
-
I like to have my games that allow me to look at what my characters attempt and then see if they succeed. You can't really do that with with a game that is all scene and chapters but, getting so bogged down by dice rolles and number crunching just to see if a chracter walks across the street without getting hit is a pain in the rear.
-
I like to have my games that allow me to look at what my characters attempt and then see if they succeed. You can't really do that with with a game that is all scene and chapters but, getting so bogged down by dice rolles and number crunching just to see if a chracter walks across the street without getting hit is a pain in the rear.
I agree with your assessment of fun gaming, Harleshade. One of the strengths of the FATE system is the fact that you can quickly assess task difficlulty, roll, and move on. Whereas many games give lots of tables and charts of modifiers in the name of "realism", FATE is all about playability and getting that task resolved so that we can move onto the next interesting part of the plot.
One neat thing from the "Amber Diceless" rulebook is the way that Erick Wujcik makes observations about Zelazny's writing style. If a contest occurs between people who are balanced in ability, Zelazny may spend pages explaining each and every detail. If the contestents are unbalanced and the conflict should end in a hurry, Zelazny spends a few words on it and moves on. FATE is a lot like that. Certainly you can build in layers of complexity if you want, or set the stage for a prolonged confict if that fits the adventure, but if you want something done quickly and want to move on then FATE lets you do it.
I'm wary of the use of the term "Storytelling Game" because it gives the impression that there aren't any rules but just players sitting around a room telling stories, but FATE is a great example of a game with rules designed to enable a gaming group to tell wonderful stories with some structure guiding the resoltion process. The rules assist you through speedy resolution as needed so you can move the plot forward.
-
As a "Old School" gamer (Really old school -I began with D&D FIRST edition!) I am trying to make a "Harryesque" game using a combo of the old " Call of Cthullu ' and the new "D20 "Cof C . So I am waiting for the new game, badly!
I have "done " game rules before and "Feel Your Pain" so I just qiuetly (whimper...) wait. :'(
-
"Yes, I know it's not out yet. I'm still torn, though. I'm pre-torn!"
You're perforated.
-
I am trying to make a "Harryesque" game using a combo of the old " Call of Cthulhu ' and the new D20 "C of C" . So I am waiting for the new game, badly!
I'm curious as to how this has worked out, since the philosophy behind CoC and DF are so divergent.
CoC puts an emphasis on mundanes searching for clues that Nasty Things really exist, and their struggle to understand them. The magic systems of both versions aren't really designed to allow for much magic use by characters.
As posted in another thread, you might look at "Monte Cook's World of Darkness" if you want to insert d20 systems into the Dresdenverse. MCWoD is more supernatural in theme.
-
I like to tell stories. Occupational hazard. But at the same time, no crunching makes things a little too loose for me. In a storytelling based game how do you know if a spell works, or if you shot someone or missed? Depend on the GM to decide? I don't like that idea at all. When I run RGPs I do have a story. I know how it starts. I know how it ends. I know what the party needs to find to get to the end. How they find it, how they get it, how they use it, is up to them. I am not above fudging the numbers to make something work when it needs to. The biggest problem with crunch games, D&D as an example, is that too many people who play it, GMs included, are "bible thumpers". The rules are the rules are the rules are the rules. I then take the book out of their hands. Bash them HARD across the skull and force them to write a million times the one rule in the book they always seem to ignore.
"THE RULES ARE GUIDELINES!"
By the way I really did take a book away from a player and hit them once. Eventually that player was no longer invited to play.
Now as Iago has already mentioned the game will be in the vane of a story form with some crunching as needed. I would expect for combat situations, or spell casting. I do not know if I will ever get to actually play, since I can't find a gaming group at all in this area, but I will likely get the game to read it over.
-
There are ways to do it without a lot of crunching. Dozens of them. And they keep things fair, with an element of suspense. My group uses them all the time.
-
The more I read about the upcoming RPG, the more disheartened I become. It looks like an extremely rules-heavy game, and I'm just tired of that. I've done those since I was a kid. I'm ready to just play a game without having to read a text book first.
I realize I'm probably in the minority on this, and I'm not trying to criticize the game. I'm just into the more indy style story games. Is anyone else thinking this way?
-
The more I read about the upcoming RPG, the more disheartened I become. It looks like an extremely rules-heavy game, and I'm just tired of that. I've done those since I was a kid. I'm ready to just play a game without having to read a text book first.
I think you are very very wrong. I feel this for a couple of reasons. Firstly because it is FATE based and this is far from rules heavy, and secondly because the big names behind it are Fred Hicks and Rob Donoghue and if you listen to them in podcasts or look at any of the things they have published its clear that they are story gamers at heart and more interested in producing a fun game than a tactical simulation.
Try playing Spirit of the Century. Its very rules light as roleplaying games go, and a lot of fun.
-
The more I read about the upcoming RPG, the more disheartened I become. It looks like an extremely rules-heavy game, and I'm just tired of that. I've done those since I was a kid. I'm ready to just play a game without having to read a text book first.
I realize I'm probably in the minority on this, and I'm not trying to criticize the game. I'm just into the more indy style story games. Is anyone else thinking this way?
You're still liable to be a healthy minority, even if you're in a minority there. And I feel you, man -- but I still feel like we need to stay true to our implementation with this one. I'd heartily suggest that the game will still be a solid resource book for fans of the setting, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if a number of folks picked it up with the idea of setting aside the system part and using the setting info for their favorite system of choice. If you're tired of heavier rules, something in the PDQ family would probably rock for ya.
(That said, do I think I'd characterize the game as "extremely rules heavy?" -- No, I wouldn't; it adds a few more systems on top of what Spirit of the Century offers, but I don't consider SOTC to be rules-heavy so much as example-drenched. YMMV.)
-
You're still liable to be a healthy minority, even if you're in a minority there. And I feel you, man -- but I still feel like we need to stay true to our implementation with this one. I'd heartily suggest that the game will still be a solid resource book for fans of the setting, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if a number of folks picked it up with the idea of setting aside the system part and using the setting info for their favorite system of choice. If you're tired of heavier rules, something in the PDQ family would probably rock for ya.
(That said, do I think I'd characterize the game as "extremely rules heavy?" -- No, I wouldn't; it adds a few more systems on top of what Spirit of the Century offers, but I don't consider SOTC to be rules-heavy so much as example-drenched. YMMV.)
You are likely exactly right. My friends and I love both RPG's and the Dresden universe. I have no doubt we'll have the Dresden RPG and canabalize the living crap out of it, at the very least. :)
Regarding the rules heavy part of my statement, I realize it doesn't take much to have that description for me. I totally know I'm hard to please in that aspect!
-
Regarding the rules heavy part of my statement, I realize it doesn't take much to have that description for me. I totally know I'm hard to please in that aspect!
Perhaps you could give examples of games you consider too rules heavy, and games you consider acceptably rules light so we can get some idea of what your tolerances are? Then maybe some of the nice guys on the alpha might comment on how the game compares to some of your examples?
-
Better yet, maybe we could suggest some alterna-systems that would really rock for you!
-
Perhaps you could give examples of games you consider too rules heavy, and games you consider acceptably rules light so we can get some idea of what your tolerances are? Then maybe some of the nice guys on the alpha might comment on how the game compares to some of your examples?
Lemme get a quick consensus of my gaming group on the systems we've enjoyed most. What I've considered too rules heavy would be games such as D&D, the Heroes Game System, White Wolf.
On the Indy scene, while I love Vincent Baker and the game idea, I found Dogs in the Vineyard not so much rules heavy, but rules tedious. Spirit of the Century is awesome, but more reading than playing for me, at least at first.
I'm an extremist, guys. Vincent Baker's Otherkind mechanic is the most elegant game system ever created, in my eyes. I'd be more apt to dive into a game if it starts off basic and easy, minimal reading. I'll take supplements later, quite happily, if I can jump in with both feet quickly.
Thanks for listening to me, guys. I'm fully aware that I'm a radical minority. But I do love the whole CONCEPT of Dresden. And I want to RPG with it.
By the way, Iago, we met at Gen Con 07, at your Indy area. I was the long haired dude looking for illustration opportunities and you told me about the upcoming Dresden RPG.
-
You fit the description of three or four guys, Lizard, but that definitely narrows the field. :)
SOTC is a good benchmark for what DFRPG will be like; add maybe another 10-20% in explicit support of the genre, rejigger several of the core elements of the system, and that's where you end up.
Have you played around with any of Chad Underkoffler's PDQ products? (Zorcerer of Zo, Truth & Justice, etc)
-
You fit the description of three or four guys, Lizard, but that definitely narrows the field. :)
SOTC is a good benchmark for what DFRPG will be like; add maybe another 10-20% in explicit support of the genre, rejigger several of the core elements of the system, and that's where you end up.
Have you played around with any of Chad Underkoffler's PDQ products? (Zorcerer of Zo, Truth & Justice, etc)
I haven't, but my co-creator/buddy/gamer Chris Moore (created Psi-Run and displayed at the Forge Booth) is the true indy gamer. He knows his stuff way better than I do, so I'll ask him. He's the one who showed me that an indy game culture exists.
-
Ah, groovy! I didn't get a lot of chance to talk to Chris, but Psi Run definitely had the buzz. :)
-
Ah, groovy! I didn't get a lot of chance to talk to Chris, but Psi Run definitely had the buzz. :)
When I say co-creator, I don't mean I had input on Psi Run other than test run and illo. But I have the pleasure of working on a game with him now.
-
Has anyone taken a look at D&D 4th edition? It looks like they are using some elements of the Dresdin Books. Especially the Cosmology, and you can kinda see it in the wizards (With the wand and Staff focus) Just thought that was interesting.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a
-
Lizard:
Have you seen Wushu Open Reloaded? I think that you could probably pull off a really fun Dresden style game with it, and it's really rules light.
-
<<REMOVED>>
(just in case, based on Mouse's comment below. Good call...)
-
I am guessing from the first and only post factor that the person talking about D&D 4th ed was just advertising for WotC. Game companies do stuff like that sometimes.
-
I am guessing from the first and only post factor that the person talking about D&D 4th ed was just advertising for WotC. Game companies do stuff like that sometimes.
I don't know. I actually thought the same thing and mentioned it to someone in my gaming group the other day and he also thought there were some similarities. The implement focus and the rituals, the way fey is handled just to name a few. There were quite a few things that made me think some of the Wotc folks have been reading Dresden ;D - with a little tweaking it might be a decent stand in until we get the "real deal!"
-
I don't know. I actually thought the same thing and mentioned it to someone in my gaming group the other day and he also thought there were some similarities. The implement focus and the rituals, the way fey is handled just to name a few. There were quite a few things that made me think some of the Wotc folks have been reading Dresden ;D - with a little tweaking it might be a decent stand in until we get the "real deal!"
I don't think it'd work that well. There's just such a fundamental difference in assumptions. Characters of the same level are supposed to be roughly the same in terms of power. In the Dresdenverse, some characters are and will always be more powerful than others.
-
Yeah, there are some very strong differences. I did a whole document (I think like 30 pages?) to convert d20 into a 'Dresdenverse' friendly system. There was a lot to handle, and the class/level system really is kind of wonky as far as matching with the Dresden world. And yes, that was 'wonky' as in the technical term. ;)
-
With regard to the "how rules-heavy the system will be" discussion, I think there is an important thing for all us Dresdenphiles to remember. Even if a person doesn't care for the system when the RPG comes out, the book will be a marvelous reference work for the GM wishing to run Dresden Files in his/her favorite system. The Evil Hat crew has done the tedious part for us; they have gone through all the books cataloging all the mythos characters, magical items and effects, and so on. The fact that someone had gone through and cataloged and quantified means all you will have to do is translate.
I play in a group that has existed for almost 20 years (I have been here for 16). The overwhelming majority of our games have been played in GURPS (although I am trying to open their eyes to the potential of more story-oriented systems). I have translated several games in other systems to GURPS, but every time I have tried to adapt a favorite novel or series, I found the task too daunting. Regardless of whether I ever use the native system, I am very pleased that Evil Hat is doing so much hard work for me. That being said I think I can sell them on the game; I have two people reading the novels as we speak. ;)
If you haven't listened to the podcasts at That's How We Roll (http://thatshowweroll.libsyn.com/), I highly recommend listening to THWR: Under the Hat 001: Evil Hat Convocation Roundtable. It has some very interesting tidbits about the Dresden Files RPG's development. I am glad I didn't have to be the one having the "Briefs Moment" :)
-
That's a fair point. They're going to have a chapter on Chicago and one on Baltimore, Dresden style. The thing is going to be valuable simply from a dorky reference standpoint.
I'm not concerned with how heavy the system is going to be. Not at all. Without using Stunts, FATE is on the heavy end of lite games. With them, it's on the lite side of medium. I can handle medium.