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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tirs on September 29, 2014, 02:48:33 PM

Title: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Tirs on September 29, 2014, 02:48:33 PM
What do u thing about his stats (without Philosopher stone)?
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on September 29, 2014, 03:31:17 PM
High scholarship/lore (FMA doesn't seem to differentiate a whole lot between the two), high empathy, high fight/weapons stats. Very high conviction. Probably pretty high endurance too. Survival and investigation can't be too bad either.

Low might, lowish Discipline when not studying something or doing alchemy (maybe better to stat with higher discipline and use aspects to represent that), low rapport, low intimidation.

Alchemy doesn't translate well to FATE based on how it's shown in the series; I'd probably go with a reskinned channeling: transformation and pick up Superior Transformation (for -3 instead of -2 refresh) if you want to do alchemy without a circle (in which case you'd need some aspect explaining why you opened the Gate and are able to do so, maybe even a "Lawbreaker" stunt). That doesn't solve how alchemy doesn't seem to tire it's user out at all. Someone better than me at custom powers might have some ideas.\

Ed is one of the best State Alchemists there are at 16, not even counting the fact he could beat up well-trained soldiers without blinking too much. He's probably running around with at least 12 refresh if not something more like 16-18, if you start thinking about all the various stunts he probably has.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: PirateJack on September 29, 2014, 05:35:14 PM
I'd go with Ritual and Incite Effect rather than Channelling.

Ritual accurately sets out the greater circle effects like those that Father set up while Incite Effect (Alchemy) is more than enough to cover Edward's ability to instantly transform things. Other State Alchemists would be more restricted, of course. I'd tie Incite Effect into Lore or Discipline, probably Discipline. Lore would be used to work out new alchemical circles. The Philosopher's Stone would be a form of Sponsored Magic.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on September 29, 2014, 06:18:15 PM
I'd go with Ritual and Incite Effect rather than Channelling.

Ritual accurately sets out the greater circle effects like those that Father set up while Incite Effect (Alchemy) is more than enough to cover Edward's ability to instantly transform things. Other State Alchemists would be more restricted, of course. I'd tie Incite Effect into Lore or Discipline, probably Discipline. Lore would be used to work out new alchemical circles. The Philosopher's Stone would be a form of Sponsored Magic.

Whoops, I meant Ritual. Incite Effect would work, too.
(...I always use the wrong term because I associate the word "channeling" in terms of channeling and storing energy over multiple exchanges. )

To me the Stone is both "sponsored magic" and a battery of "pre-paid" sponsor debt--
(click to show/hide)
--and the stone breaks once all the debt has been used as energy in alchemic reactions.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 30, 2014, 12:25:33 AM
It's been a while since I read FMA, but I don't remember Ed doing much that Incite Effect wouldn't cover. Trying to ressurrect his mom would require Ritual, but I don't think he does anything like that during the actual series...I guess his ability to create/repair stuff instantly would be some kind of Craftsmanship replacement.

It seems like a shame to put Incite Effect with damaging upgrades on a character with actual combat skills, though. After all, one of Incite Effect's main selling points is that it lets you fight with whatever skill you want. So maybe a reflavoured Supernatural Martial Arts would be better.

Hm. I'll take a crack at him and post the results tonight.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Sanctaphrax on September 30, 2014, 01:44:55 AM
Working under the assumption that in FMA Scholarship and Lore are the same. Used a mixture of Supernatural Martial Arts (http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Supernatural+Martial+Arts) and Incite Effect for his combat alchemy. Threw in Claws/Natural Weaponry because he's got a metal fist and some dangerous close-range alchemical attacks.

I'm not too confident in my memory, so this might be a ways off. Especially where Aspects are concerned. Let me know if something seems wrong.

I could easily have given him more Refresh and skills, but I figured I'd rather not go too overboard.

Edward Elric (Submerged)

High Concept: State Alchemist
Trouble Aspect: We Need Our Bodies Back
Other Aspects: Don't Call Me Short!, In Love With Winry, Jerk With A Heart Of Gold, Automail Limbs, Hohenheim's Son
Skills:
Superb: Scholarship
Great: Fists, Athletics
Good: Endurance, Conviction, Investigation
Fair: Survival, Discipline, Alertness, Empathy
Average: Intimidation, Might, Presence, Resources, Stealth
Stunts:
Capable Researcher (Scholarship): All research is two time increments faster.
Transmutation (Scholarship): Use Scholarship instead of Craftsmanship to build, break, and repair simple things.
Quick Transmutation (Scholarship): Scholarship-as-Craftsmanship rolls are two time increments faster.
Armed Arts (Fists): Use Fists to wield short swords and spears.
Powers:
Incite Effect (Transmutation) [-1]
Supernatural Martial Arts (Enhanced Accuracy, Enhanced Damage, Distant Strike) [-1]
Natural Weaponry [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Total Refresh Cost:
-9
Refresh Total:
1
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 02, 2014, 01:40:32 AM
Does nobody have anything to say?
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: PirateJack on October 02, 2014, 06:10:15 AM
Oops, must have forgotten to click Post on that last one.

It looks good, except for one part. Edward tends to transform his automail arm into a blade when fighting, so I'd swap out Fists for Weapons.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 02, 2014, 02:48:33 PM
Oops, must have forgotten to click Post on that last one.

It looks good, except for one part. Edward tends to transform his automail arm into a blade when fighting, so I'd swap out Fists for Weapons.

Looks pretty good to me too. However, I'd pick up the Armed Arts stunt for short swords and spears (his two weapons of choice) over swapping skill. He's shown that he's equally capable of fighting with just his hands and feet; plus I think the Natural Weapons power Sancraphrax gave him was representative of that automail sword, which could be wielded with Fists.

It might be worth him picking up Inhuman Speed, too. At one point, once he gets his automail upgraded, there's mention that's he's even faster than Scar--who is far and away faster than any other pure mortals in the series. Only some Chimeras and Homonculi are faster than him...seems like even a high Athletics skill doesn't fully represent that.

Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 02, 2014, 06:12:51 PM
Looks pretty good to me too. However, I'd pick up the Armed Arts stunt for short swords and spears (his two weapons of choice) over swapping skill. He's shown that he's equally capable of fighting with just his hands and feet; plus I think the Natural Weapons power Sancraphrax gave him was representative of that automail sword, which could be wielded with Fists.

Yes, the Natural Weaponry Power was intended to represent stuff like that. I didn't remember him using real weapons, though.

Anyway, I'll add Armed Arts.

It might be worth him picking up Inhuman Speed, too. At one point, once he gets his automail upgraded, there's mention that's he's even faster than Scar--who is far and away faster than any other pure mortals in the series. Only some Chimeras and Homonculi are faster than him...seems like even a high Athletics skill doesn't fully represent that.

Hm.

It'll push him down to 1 Refresh, but...why not?
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 02, 2014, 08:03:49 PM
Yes, the Natural Weaponry Power was intended to represent stuff like that. I didn't remember him using real weapons, though.

He rarely does so, and maybe it's just in the anime (never read the manga), but he likes to transmute a sort of spear-like weapon with a longer/wider blade than typical. I can't remember the other times, but he definitely does it fighting when Father Cornello.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Quantus on October 03, 2014, 04:14:28 PM
He rarely does so, and maybe it's just in the anime (never read the manga), but he likes to transmute a sort of spear-like weapon with a longer/wider blade than typical. I can't remember the other times, but he definitely does it fighting when Father Cornello.
He did it once or twice (I get the two anime's confused), and Im pretty sure his sensei did as well, which is probably where he got it. 

I do really like the idea of Lawbreaker for having violated the Taboo's of Alchemy, that was a major plot point and fits the mechanic pretty well.  I also might change the High Concept to "Dog of the Military" instead of State Alchemist.  Close in context but illustrates the touch of resentment he has for the government. 


The big question here is whether you'll have other alchemists running around.  Some of these solutions work great for Ed's unique abilities, but might break down a bit when there is somebody around to directly compare him to.  The rules for alchemy might looks much different if you were modeling the Flame Alchemist for example (more Evocation oriented Id expect).
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 03, 2014, 04:21:43 PM
The big question here is whether you'll have other alchemists running around.  Some of these solutions work great for Ed's unique abilities, but might break down a bit when there is somebody around to directly compare him to.  The rules for alchemy might looks much different if you were modeling the Flame Alchemist for example (more Evocation oriented Id expect).

Yeah...I think if I were incorporating Alchemy as a major part of my game I'd sit down and rewrite the Evocation/Thaumaturgy rules into a combined version of the power, using focus items as justification for what kind of alchemy you can do "on the fly."

The issue of energy use still crops up. I mean, Mustang and other State Alchemists have performed enormous transmutations or transmutations involving huge amounts of energy--all without appearing the least bit tired after it's done.

Ultimately I think the Dresdenverse and the world of Amestris don't really fit together very well in terms of trying to balance traditional magic against alchemy, though Amestris could be done well enough in FATE.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: PirateJack on October 03, 2014, 04:26:31 PM
Well, Incite Effect and Natural Weaponry work fairly well for the majority of alchemy and alkahestry. You don't really need evocation for either. Ritual (Alchemy) is good enough to cover everything else. If you want to adapt DFRPG to the setting then Ritual (Speciality) can be split between the various schools of alchemy.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 01:08:43 PM
The issue of energy use still crops up. I mean, Mustang and other State Alchemists have performed enormous transmutations or transmutations involving huge amounts of energy--all without appearing the least bit tired after it's done.
Well, part of that at least can be explained by the Red Stones that were hidden in the State Alchemist Watches, so their energy use would be subsidized in that case. 


Well, Incite Effect and Natural Weaponry work fairly well for the majority of alchemy and alkahestry. You don't really need evocation for either. Ritual (Alchemy) is good enough to cover everything else. If you want to adapt DFRPG to the setting then Ritual (Speciality) can be split between the various schools of alchemy.
Oh, Right, Alkahestry...   Irrc the main functional difference was that Alkahestry could be operated at range, yes?  Users were typically granted a 6th sense for energy that let them track Homonculi, but was there any difference in the magic itself that would need to be reflected in the mechanics?
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 06, 2014, 02:15:19 PM
Well, part of that at least can be explained by the Red Stones that were hidden in the State Alchemist Watches, so their energy use would be subsidized in that case. 

Oh. I never made that connection...That explains a lot. That never came up in anime to my recollection. Very interesting.
(click to show/hide)
I can't recall if Mae ever got tired or not, using lots of the (differently-powered) alkahestry,  but I don't think she did.

Oh, Right, Alkahestry...   Irrc the main functional difference was that Alkahestry could be operated at range, yes?  Users were typically granted a 6th sense for energy that let them track Homonculi, but was there any difference in the magic itself that would need to be reflected in the mechanics?
Not really, that I can see. Also, that 6th sense wasn't just for Homonculi; people from Shing, or at least those trained (including non-Alkahestry users) can sense Chi in all its forms (-1 Supernatural Sense), but the Homonculi have so many souls inside them they're like beacons and easy to home in on. Other than that, they can justify healing (Alkahestry's main purpose) where with Alchemy you really can't without a Stone.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 02:55:50 PM
Oh. I never made that connection...That explains a lot. That never came up in anime to my recollection. Very interesting.
(click to show/hide)
I can't recall if Mae ever got tired or not, using lots of the (differently-powered) alkahestry,  but I don't think she did.
I dont think she got tired, but then I also cant recall her doing anything particularly large scale so it's hard to be sure.

Now that I think about it, I know that the State Alchemists had Red Stones hidden in all their watches in the first anime, but I dont think they were in Brotherhood (and so I assume they were not in the manga).  But absent that explanation I think you'd be stuck with simply making the mechanics scale massively with skill level, to illustrate that state alchemists are head and shoulders above other practitioners;  essentially say that they are real wizards and everyone else is just a sorcerer level.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 06, 2014, 04:58:17 PM
I don't recall any red stones in the watches from the manga.

IIRC...the manga's alchemy was powered by plate tectonics and geothermal energy. Except Father had some kind of massive underground working set up to seal off the real power source, forcing alchemists in Amestris to use his Philosopher's Stone instead of energy from underground. Which let him choose whether to let other alchemists transmute, until his seal was broken during the story's climax.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 06, 2014, 06:18:14 PM
IIRC...the manga's alchemy was powered by plate tectonics and geothermal energy. Except Father had some kind of massive underground working set up to seal off the real power source, forcing alchemists in Amestris to use his Philosopher's Stone instead of energy from underground. Which let him choose whether to let other alchemists transmute, until his seal was broken during the story's climax.

That's what Brotherhood said, which I understand is pretty close to the manga. Alkahestry is powered by the "Dragonlines"--Ley Lines, as I interpreted it.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 07:19:22 PM
That's what Brotherhood said, which I understand is pretty close to the manga. Alkahestry is powered by the "Dragonlines"--Ley Lines, as I interpreted it.
interesting.  So, absent Father's manipulation, how would the two have been different?  Ive heard Ley Lines be used as the mystical equivalent to tectonic energy often enough that I'm unclear on the distinction. 
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: dragoonbuster on October 06, 2014, 07:41:01 PM
interesting.  So, absent Father's manipulation, how would the two have been different?  Ive heard Ley Lines be used as the mystical equivalent to tectonic energy often enough that I'm unclear on the distinction.

No idea; they're similar enough at least. Presumably the Dragonlines' connections to the world around the user (as opposed to just being an energy source like grinding tectonic plates) is what allows Alkahestrists to do "ranged" alchemy. Probably no other real difference except the user's perspective.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: SkywardEyes on October 06, 2014, 09:00:35 PM
No idea; they're similar enough at least. Presumably the Dragonlines' connections to the world around the user (as opposed to just being an energy source like grinding tectonic plates) is what allows Alkahestrists to do "ranged" alchemy. Probably no other real difference except the user's perspective.

If you think about every single State Alchemist's alchemy it looks like an avalanche of some form, whereas Mae's is like lightning (following the path of least resistance)
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Quantus on October 06, 2014, 09:44:14 PM
If you think about every single State Alchemist's alchemy it looks like an avalanche of some form, whereas Mae's is like lightning (following the path of least resistance)
Im not sure I see it that way, all alchemy has lightning effects around the circle if nothing else, and the only state alchemist that had the avalanche effect that I real were those messing with specifically with solid objects (like Armstrong or the Gun guy) where more energy based attacks went to lightning (like the Flame or Crimson Alchemists).
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: SkywardEyes on October 07, 2014, 02:14:36 PM
Im not sure I see it that way, all alchemy has lightning effects around the circle if nothing else, and the only state alchemist that had the avalanche effect that I real were those messing with specifically with solid objects (like Armstrong or the Gun guy) where more energy based attacks went to lightning (like the Flame or Crimson Alchemists).

What I meant in my metaphor is that all of the alchemy begins at the feet/hands of the alchemist and roars out from there in a wide patter (Mustang is the only exception to this now that I think about it, but that is because he is burning Oxygen streams in the air to get to the cluster at the target). The Crimson alchemist (when he is not using a stone) has his explosions begin from where he touches the ground and then they flow outward from there. The Elric brothers, Armstrong, Scar's destruction alchemy the Iron Blood Alchemist, and the Silver Alchemist all repeat this behavior in some form. I guess I was just always reminded of avalanches and landslides whenever I saw them doing alchemy, which I like to believe is on purpose on the part of the animators since Marco says that it works off of tectonic activity.
Title: Re: Please statting the Edward Elric
Post by: Quantus on October 07, 2014, 02:18:39 PM
What I meant in my metaphor is that all of the alchemy begins at the feet/hands of the alchemist and roars out from there in a wide patter (Mustang is the only exception to this now that I think about it, but that is because he is burning Oxygen streams in the air to get to the cluster at the target). The Crimson alchemist (when he is not using a stone) has his explosions begin from where he touches the ground and then they flow outward from there. The Elric brothers, Armstrong, Scar's destruction alchemy the Iron Blood Alchemist, and the Silver Alchemist all repeat this behavior in some form. I guess I was just always reminded of avalanches and landslides whenever I saw them doing alchemy, which I like to believe is on purpose on the part of the animators since Marco says that it works off of tectonic activity.
Ah, gotcha, I thought you meant the physical effect, the crawling rectangle bit, that was supposed to be indicative of Alchemy use.  Still, I took that to be a purely practical matter, in that all alchemy requires a physical circle that needed to be touched to activate (barring rule-breaking elements like stones).