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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Jabberwocky on September 15, 2014, 06:28:35 PM
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With Sanctaphrax's approval I'm starting this topic anew.
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Gentlemen, I'm trying to stat a medusa NPC for my game. Would you be so kind as to look at it and share your thoughts?
http://toonstore.net/Jabberwocky/jahti/
As for the Stone Gaze power I'm probably going to use some version of this (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,18687.msg838021.html#msg838021) or this (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22567.msg973685.html#msg973685). I would like to connect it somehow to her Domination power so that she could force even a resisting opponent to look at her.
Any suggestions? Thanks a lot!
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Update: I merged both approaches and added a little bit of my invention. What do you think? Could it work?
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I like blocks for things like that.
Maybe a grapple, somehow. It's kind of how you're doing it already... The gaze hits you and you slowly get paralyzed. Your body tries to fight it off but eventually you get turned to stone.
Gaze initiates a grapple, which is a block against all actions. So you're partially paralyzed but can still try to fight it (but can't sprint or move zones). They attacker can do stress or pile up maneuvers. Stress and consequences would reflect the person slowly turning to stone while maneuvers could be tagged for one big physical attack that takes the person out.
Incite effect has a grappling upgrade. Have it stack with a strength power to give it some meat in a grapple.
Another way, possibly more elegant way, would be venomous. The person takes damage every exchange until they are taken out or are healed. It doesn't have the block aspect. Maybe there could be an upgrade to it. Just throwing out ideas.
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That "Incite Effect" homerule seems very universal. I didn't know about its existence. The grappling option could manage elegantly what I actually need. I'll give it some thought and maybe redesign the NPC a little bit. The Lesser Domination power could be also designed that way…
I'm also thinking about the result of petrification. Should the effect be reversible or should it be just the death of the victim? I'd prefer the second option. Once the victim is Taken Out the medusa can dictate the outcome (apart from petrification maybe some kind of catatonia) but if she chooses to petrify the victim they're dead.
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Updated version.
STONE GAZE [-3]
(Incite Effect + At Range + Incite Physical Effect + Incite Restrictive Effect = 4 - 1 for the need of the victim to look at you = 3)
Petrifying Gaze: You can petrify a target within your zone +1 by successfully making prolonged eye contact. Roll your Conviction versus the target’s Discipline to inflict Physical Stress +2 on the target. If the target continues to engage in conflict with you, you may continue to use this ability. Any consequences the opponent takes must reflect their diminished ability to avoid meeting your gaze in the midst of conflict. Any consequences the opponent takes must reflect your attempts to turn them to stone. You may also use manoeuvres (at Conviction +2) to place Aspects on the target reflecting this conflict. While this attack allows you to petrify at range, your target has the option to avoid engaging you in conflict, which will leave them vulnerable: consider their defenses to be Mediocre (+0) against your other attacks or maneuvers while they are immune to meeting your gaze.
Lock Eyes: Alternatively, you can pit Intimidation against Discipline to start a "grapple" . Treat this as normal grapple but at range and the difficulty of breaking free is +2. Once Locked you stay Locked! Others could block the view, of course, or distract either party enough to stop the attack, but they've got to be careful about being attacked as well!
Speak with Statues: You are able to communicate mentally with the shades of your petrified victims, provided the statues (or at least their heads) are still mostly intact. Such communication is only basic and requires your physical presence. The shades must tell the truth (or what they think is the truth).
Improved Gaze [-1]: For an additional point of Refresh, you do not require prolonged eye contact. Simply gazing on their body for long enough will do. You may roll your Conviction versus the target’s Athletics to inflict Physical Stress +2 on the target.
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I don't see how you'd work the +1 bonus for having to look in to the eyes of the victim. There's no mechanic for modelling that in the RAW. Anyway, grapples require a manoeuvre to begin with and the natural one for Stone Gaze is Locked Gazes, which would happily cover your need here.
Alternately, if you really want to bring it down to [-3], you could sacrifice your weapon rating by taking the Limited add-on for a +1.
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I was thinking about the fact that a WCV, for example, can start his/her power just by looking at you. A medusa, on the other hand, is limited to you looking at her (or into her eyes). Which you can avoid by not looking at her, using a mirror, a phone, VR goggles, whatever. For that reason I use the additional -1 Improved Gaze option for elder medusae or other petrifiying kinds of monsters, which would put it back to -4 again. It's not according to RAW, it's more like according to what I feel it should be.
As for the grapple - yeah, I agree. First the medusa tries to establish a Locked Eyes (or Peering into the Abyss or whatever suitable name) aspect with her Petrifying Gaze. If successful she can, on the subsequent exchange, tag that aspect and start a grapple with her Locked Eyes (= Incite Restrictive Effect) power.
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Telekinesis works a lot like incite emotion and it allows you to add damage from strength powers to it.
I might have an upgrade that does the same(at least for grappling).
Or maybe Strength powers with a limitation:
-4 Supernatural Strength:
+2/3 limitation: Only the damage/accuracy bonus to grappling when used in conjunction with restrictive function of incite effect.
This way, A medusa can:
Round 1: 'Lock eyes' and invoke for a grapple
Round 2: Do a block at the strength of incite effect+strength bonus + free maneuver OR 1 stress + 2(supernatural Strength).
This would allow her to do more damage each round.
Not sure how this works balance-wise, but it seems o.k, I think. If she wants the Supernatural Strength to apply to normal attacks as well she, obviously, wouldn't get the limitation bonus.
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Being Medusa, you'll want to somehow account for the ability to keep her severed head and use it's petrification abilities after death.
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Being Medusa, you'll want to somehow account for the ability to keep her severed head and use it's petrification abilities after death.
It becomes an IoP.
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It becomes an IoP.
As soon as severed, or only after it get's forged into a Shield (following the myth path)?
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As soon as it gets severed I'd allow a character to use FP's to activate the power as per the temporary powers rule.
If they wanted to take it on as a permanent iop, they'd probably have to fashion it into something
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Poor Jahti, really. As soon as she escapes ghouls and manages to settle down a bit in a foreign environment people start discussing the mechanics of cutting her head off and using it as IoP. No wonder she's got such an attitude... ;-)
Anyway, Stone Gaze + Telekinesis is a deadly combo. It just seems a little bit weird. I mean, Inhuman/Supernatural Strength is something connected to your body. Maybe I can imagine it to be connected to something you MOVE with your mind. But this is something different. Stone Gaze is in fact a mental effect that happens to deal physical stress (so I wouldn't allow to use armour against it - the change is happening inside your body). Or I feel it that way at least. But if used the way Taran is suggesting it would be super-effective, that's without question.
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The strength power is strictly to provide the mechanics. Fluff-wise it isn't physical strength but the strength of the gaze. Which is why you get the rebate. You wouldn't get any of the bonuses to lifting or attacking - only the benefits of grappling and only when using incite - so it wouldn't even apply to a normal, physical grapple.
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Alright, I can see your argument now. Well, that would make her A LOT more formidable. Maybe I will go that way with her. I'm not planning on using her as a direct enemy, more like a (problematic but knowledgeable) source of information at first with a potential twist when the PCs discover the true face of "that annoying nerd". But she should be able to defend herself with drastic means. She's a monster of myth, after all, albeit a young and relatively inexperienced one.
You write:
This way, A medusa can:
Round 1: 'Lock eyes' and invoke for a grapple
Round 2: Do a block at the strength of incite effect+strength bonus + free maneuver OR 1 stress + 2(supernatural Strength).
Three more questions to that:
1) Is this the proper grappling order of rounds? I thought it should go like this:
- Round 1: Manoeuvre for an aspect.
- Round 2: Tag the aspect and start a grapple. Establish a block.
- Round 3 and every round after it: Make an unopposed attack, movement, manoeuvre with 1 shift. Then reroll the grapple at -1.
2) What do you mean by "free manoeuvre"? Any potential still untagged manoeuvres from previous exchanges of grappling?
3) I'm thinking about the skills used. I thought about Conviction for normal stress dealing (this is the pure mental force of the creature) and Intimidation for establishing the grapple block (subduing the victim with your horrific appearance so that they don't avert their eyes).
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You write:
This way, A medusa can:
Round 1: 'Lock eyes' and invoke for a grapple
Round 2: Do a block at the strength of incite effect+strength bonus + free maneuver OR 1 stress + 2(supernatural Strength).
Yes, sorry. I was being lazy.
Three more questions to that:
1) Is this the proper grappling order of rounds? I thought it should go like this:
- Round 1: Manoeuvre for an aspect.
- Round 2: Tag the aspect and start a grapple. Establish a block.
- Round 3 and every round after it: Make an unopposed attack, movement, manoeuvre with 1 shift. Then reroll the grapple at -1.
Exactly.
2) What do you mean by "free manoeuvre"? Any potential still untagged manoeuvres from previous exchanges of grappling?
I meant the unopposed maneuver done as a supplemental. So she could rack up maneuvers, then hit with a big attack to try to take someone out as opposed to gradually do damage.
3) I'm thinking about the skills used. I thought about Conviction for normal stress dealing (this is the pure mental force of the creature) and Intimidation for establishing the grapple block (subduing the victim with your horrific appearance so that they don't avert their eyes).
You would just need one skill. Deceit or intimidation work.
[-1]Incite effect lets you do maneuvers/blocks based on a skill
[-1]Incite ranged (so you can do it within 2 zones, or sight or whatever the power stipulates - I forget)
[-1]Incite restrictive
[-1]Incite Physical Effect (for weaponized attacks at weapon 2)
[-x] Strength power
[+X] limitation
You could also take
[-1]Incite potent
So you do "Locked eyes" maneuver at skill +2 (for incite effect)
You grapple at Skill + level of Strength
You do damage regular damage at skill+level of potency for incite effect (+2 or 4)
You do grapple damage of 1+level of STR Power
Sanctaphrax or someone accustomed to balancing custom powers should double-check this. It feels right to me, though, since Telekinesis is basically incite effect with a STR bonus.
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By the houserules as written (slightly silly concept, but anyway...), incite effect doesn't work with Strength. Letting them work together might be a little powerful since Incite Effect can hit Endurance (ignoring Speed) but for an NPC it shouldn't matter.
So I say go for it.
PS: I'm not totally happy with how similar Incite Effect and Telekinesis have become. But that's a complaint for another time.
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Sanctaphrax + Taran: Okay, thank you both a lot.
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For another take...
Personally I'd just treat the petrifying gaze as a regular attack. Probably Weapon:4 so that it is an automatic kill on anyone who isn't plot-relevant (no consequences) and doesn't have Toughness powers.
Consequences would represent pulling your eyes away at the last possible moment, leaving you with slowed movements, a temporarily paralyzed limb, etc.
It would have to ignore conventional armor, though. To some degree that can just be part of the general armor rules (eg bulletproof vests don't work so well against knife stabs) but it might need to be part of the power if it ignored all non-magical armor.
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venomous goes through armour, does it not? I mean, it doesn't specifically say it does, but if you're poisoned, mundane armour isn't going to do much. An argument could be made for Toughness.
My point is it could be written straight in the power: This attack bypasses mundane armour.
Thinking about it more now...
The high weapon value would probably represent petrification the best. If it hits with the gaze, it kills you.
I actually like representing consequences from the gaze being stuff like:
"skinned knee"
"dislocated shoulder"
Basically, any type of injury you'd get from dodging out of the way. So, the gaze isn't causing you damage, but you're getting injured trying to get away from the medusa.
It hurts to jump over a desk and through a window and land on broken glass. but at least you didn't get turned to stone!
Doing it this way let's you apply your toughness and armour too.
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venomous goes through armour, does it not? I mean, it doesn't specifically say it does, but if you're poisoned, mundane armour isn't going to do much. An argument could be made for Toughness.
Since applying Venemous is a maneuver, not an attack, it bypasses armo. Since the "tag for effect" it provides each turn is damage to the stress track, I'd say it wouldn't bypass toughness unless it was Catch-covering.
Thinking about it more now...
The high weapon value would probably represent petrification the best. If it hits with the gaze, it kills you.
I actually like representing consequences from the gaze being stuff like:
"skinned knee"
"dislocated shoulder"
Basically, any type of injury you'd get from dodging out of the way. So, the gaze isn't causing you damage, but you're getting injured trying to get away from the medusa.
It hurts to jump over a desk and through a window and land on broken glass. but at least you didn't get turned to stone!
Doing it this way let's you apply your toughness and armour too.
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I fully agree with this. It's all in the narrative, and the defender controls the narration of his defense.
My take is to snag Natural Weaponry with Potent, Ranged, and Venemous upgrades. Simple, clean, easy to work with.