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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: JGray on July 13, 2014, 08:19:15 PM

Title: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 13, 2014, 08:19:15 PM
Hello. I have gotten to run a couple of test scenarios for players in an attempt to learn the rules. I have been able to answer most of the questions that arose by going back and rereading the rules but a few are confusing me and I hope y'all can help.

1. How are the stress boxes gained from Toughness powers affected by the Catch? If a goblin has a physical stress track of OOO(OO) due to Inhuman Toughness and suffers 4 points of Physical Stress from an iron weapon do I mark off the 4th stress track box or is he Taken Out?

2. Can a block be used as an attack? For example, if X says she will cover Evil Dude with her pistol and shoot him of he seems to be attacking would that be a block that inflicts Physical Stress?

3. If a ferromancer (Mage who works with metal) uses evocation to wrap a chainlink fence around an enemy (and uses extra shifts to purchase pronounced duration) is this counted as a general block that prevents most actions or a grapple that let's the Mage still take other actions? Or is it a maneuver that adds an Aspect?

4. Evocation focus items need to be declared as offensive or defensive. What if they are used for maneuvers or blocks? If a block is cover fire would that be considered offensive or defensive? Is a maneuver to put an Increased Personal Gravity Aspect on a target considered offensive or defensive?

Thank you very much for humoring a GM who is new to this system.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Mr. Death on July 13, 2014, 08:27:21 PM
1. How are the stress boxes gained from Toughness powers affected by the Catch? If a goblin has a physical stress track of OOO(OO) due to Inhuman Toughness and suffers 4 points of Physical Stress from an iron weapon do I mark off the 4th stress track box or is he Taken Out?
He's Taken Out. The Catch makes it as if the toughness power does not exist.

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2. Can a block be used as an attack? For example, if X says she will cover Evil Dude with her pistol and shoot him of he seems to be attacking would that be a block that inflicts Physical Stress?
No, you can't do stress with a block. A better option for this might be to hold action, then interrupt if Evil Dude goes to attack.

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3. If a ferromancer (Mage who works with metal) uses evocation to wrap a chainlink fence around an enemy (and uses extra shifts to purchase pronounced duration) is this counted as a general block that prevents most actions or a grapple that let's the Mage still take other actions? Or is it a maneuver that adds an Aspect?
It could be any of them, depending on what the player's goal with the action is. Simply preventing him from taking action for a while? A block. Want to keep him from taking action while also doing some damage and/or maneuvering? Grapple. Want to give a temporary advantage (like, say, binding him long enough for someone else to deck him)? Maneuver.

I would rule that as a grapple, the Mage has to focus on the action and couldn't take others.

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4. Evocation focus items need to be declared as offensive or defensive. What if they are used for maneuvers or blocks? If a block is cover fire would that be considered offensive or defensive? Is a maneuver to put an Increased Personal Gravity Aspect on a target considered offensive or defensive?
My general rule of thumb is if it's affecting an enemy directly, it's offensive. If it's affecting an ally directly, it's defensive.

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Thank you very much for humoring a GM who is new to this system.
Hey, we've all been there, don't sweat it.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: gojj on July 13, 2014, 09:09:34 PM
I would rule that as a grapple, the Mage has to focus on the action and couldn't take others.
I don't think you can grapple with magic.

My general rule of thumb is if it's affecting an enemy directly, it's offensive. If it's affecting an ally directly, it's defensive.
What about neutral actions? Like raising a zone border or covering the entire area in fog.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Mr. Death on July 13, 2014, 09:11:22 PM
I don't think you can grapple with magic.
Orbius.

*raises a shield against Sanctaphrax's rage*

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What about neutral actions? Like raising a zone border or covering the entire area in fog.
I'd rule them defensive.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: narphoenix on July 13, 2014, 11:08:27 PM
Orbius.

*raises a shield against Sanctaphrax's rage*

*sneaks around Death for a backstab*

Pay no attention to this "Orbius". It does not exist. I repeat, it DOES NOT EXIST.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 13, 2014, 11:20:09 PM
1. How are the stress boxes gained from Toughness powers affected by the Catch? If a goblin has a physical stress track of OOO(OO) due to Inhuman Toughness and suffers 4 points of Physical Stress from an iron weapon do I mark off the 4th stress track box or is he Taken Out?
If a catch is satisfied, the character that's been hit is treated as not having any toughness or recovery powers at all. So if your goblin is hit with a cold iron weapon, his stress track is actually OOO. That's why the usual notation has the additional boxes in brackets. He would indeed be taken out (or had to take consequences).

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2. Can a block be used as an attack? For example, if X says she will cover Evil Dude with her pistol and shoot him of he seems to be attacking would that be a block that inflicts Physical Stress?
No. There are rules to allow to reuse magical blocks, but I wouldn't recommend it for regular blocks. The idea is that you do something that discourages someone else from doing something. Maybe you give off a shot when he moves, or the gun simply discourages him to do anything if he can't break the block. If he can break the block, maybe you were distracted for a second, or you don't hit him when he is doing something.

If it is a "gun to his head" situation, I wouldn't really roll for it, that's a pretty clear situation, you shoot, he dies. That's less a block, more a plot device, and I would view the "gun to his head" situation as a taken out result.

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3. If a ferromancer (Mage who works with metal) uses evocation to wrap a chainlink fence around an enemy (and uses extra shifts to purchase pronounced duration) is this counted as a general block that prevents most actions or a grapple that let's the Mage still take other actions? Or is it a maneuver that adds an Aspect?
Well, it really depends on what the player wants. If his main goal is to pretend the other guy from doing anything, it's a block against anything (and can be broken by anything). If he wants to prevent movement, it's a block against movement only. If he wants it to help him in his action, it's a maneuver.

Magical Grapples aren't really a thing. I think we tried to tackle it a few times on this board, but I'm not sure we ever reached a satisfying solution. Which makes sense, if you think about it. Evocation spells are supposed to be quick and dirty magic, grappling someone takes quite a while. That's where the "Orbius" stuff above results from. Some of these discussions were... intense. :)

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4. Evocation focus items need to be declared as offensive or defensive. What if they are used for maneuvers or blocks? If a block is cover fire would that be considered offensive or defensive? Is a maneuver to put an Increased Personal Gravity Aspect on a target considered offensive or defensive?
As a general rule of thumb:
Blocks: If I want to prevent someone from doing something, it's offensive. If I want to prevent something to happen to me, it's defensive.
Maneuvers: If the spell effect is supposed to interact with me, an ally and/or the environment, it's defensive. If the spell effect is supposed to interact with someone else and/or the environment, it's offensive.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 14, 2014, 04:12:06 PM
A nice group of answers and something I can chew on as I sort through the system. Thank you.

Which brings me to my next question. I'm trying to decide what effect a threshold would have on each of my player's characters.  The focused practitioner will obviously leave some of her power at the door but what about:

1. The zombie monk fused to a spirit of Justice?
2. The lawyer given a magic pistol that marks her as an agent of the Furies?
3. The reporter with the pendant from the cat sith that turns her into a house kitty?
4. And the descendant of the goddess Epona?

Any thoughts there?
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 14, 2014, 04:36:28 PM
Well, 2 and 3 will definitely be able to enter, as they are human. The pistol seems like it should work, it's merely a tool, a weapon, it's not a willful act of magic. The pendant would be more complicated to judge, but I think this would be easiest to handle as a compel. If it is interesting for the threshold to interact with the pendant, it's a compel, otherwise, don't bother to think about it. It could, for example, mean that the reporter gets stuck in the form she is in, when she is hindered by a threshold. Or she gets turned back into a (naked) human.

The zombie seems to be held together by magic, or at least I would interpret it that way. That would mean that crossing a threshold poses a very real risk of death for him, not just diminished power. I would probably handle this as a compel again, either to not have him enter, or to not have him be able to do anything but focus on not falling apart.

The descendant of a god might be able to break a threshold, but I think she'd be held to the laws of hospitality harder than other characters. Again, easiest to handle with a compel. Maybe she is forced to remain passive, or if she acts, she will have to pay substantial reparations to the host, even if she was using her powers for the host.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Taran on July 14, 2014, 06:56:02 PM
Which brings me to my next question. I'm trying to decide what effect a threshold would have on each of my player's characters.  The focused practitioner will obviously leave some of her power at the door but what about:

1. The zombie monk fused to a spirit of Justice?
2. The lawyer given a magic pistol that marks her as an agent of the Furies?
3. The reporter with the pendant from the cat sith that turns her into a house kitty?
4. And the descendant of the goddess Epona?

Any thoughts there?

1.  I think a threshold is gonna be nasty on this one.

Treat the Zombie the same way you'd treat a Black Court Vampire, I think.  The spirit is unable to cross the threshold at all but since it has a 'vessel' (the corpse) it can try to push its way through.

I'd do this as a discipline vs the level of the threshold.  If he succeeds, he can enter.  If he fails, he can't (though, he could keep trying).  I'd then have him take powers away, as normal.  If all his powers are removed, he falls apart and the spirit is ejected from the body (and the house).    If he has at least one refresh left, he's strong enough to survive the threshold.

Then you have to decide if the threshold does environmental damage to him every round.  It's a spirit of justice, so maybe not.  Though, if his Catch is Holy, I'd say the threshold would damage him.

2.  The pistol would probably lose powers.  Including Marked by Power, albeit, that might be the last power.  Basically, it cuts off the connection to the Sponsor.  But the Furies may be subject to the same rules as the Fae.  See #3.

3.  I think it's been established that, if they mean no harm, Fairies are unaffected by thresholds.  If she breaks any of the rules of Hospitality, I think the amulet would cease to function(lose powers based on the threshold).  If she's a cat, she'd get changed back.

4.  Probably just like a Fae.  (see Haru's suggestion for compels)
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 14, 2014, 08:45:54 PM
Orbius.

*raises a shield against Sanctaphrax's rage*

Actually, if Orbius worked the way you think it ought to it would be far less offensive.

PS: Thanks narphoenix.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 15, 2014, 11:44:15 PM
Thanks for the feedback so far! It is really helping me sort things. I think I've sorted out how Thresholds affect each of my group's supernatural characters.


I've come up with a few more questions to ask. Thank you for your patience in answering them.


Thanks again for your thoughts and answers.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 16, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
This never seems to be specified in the books. What's the consensus - is an invite past a threshold permanent? Once invited, always invited? Or does it only last until the invitee leaves?
I think it's for one stay only, though it's rather vague. The laws of hospitality work both ways though, so I would argue that once someone officially leaves in the spirit of hospitality, the invitation is void. By spirit of hospitality, I mean that the visit is over, they didn't just leave the house. So just stepping out once wouldn't end the invitation, but saying goodbye and leaving would.

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In the books you occasionally see non-sponsored magic in the hands of laypeople who likely don't have spellcasting powers. Thomas uses multiple tracking spells, for example, in one short story. I also believe Harry teaches a couple of people how to make a magic warding circle. What's the consensus on how that is being done?
I could see this as being a 1 trick pony sort of thing. You could reduce ritual to a 1 refresh power, only allowing you to do 1 specific spell. It would be a character with very weak magical talent. I don't really know about Thomas though, haven't read that for a while. Didn't he work with Bob there? That could definitely be sponsored magic to a degree. Or maybe Thomas simply has some weak magical talent, due to his mother.

A lot of times, something like this might just be handled with a Fate point. Thomas could say "Because my Mother was a wizard, and I've seen my brother do this a lot of times, I should be able to get a half decent tracking spell running", pay a Fate point and be done. Or in the case of the coven, it might even just be something that happens in the background, without any actual power attached to it.

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The rules do not suggest it can be done, but has anyone experimented with allowing someone with evocation/channeling to use magic in defense rolls? Rereading the books, it doesn't seem like Harry is using his "action" to activate his shield bracelets. Or is that a function of the focus item itself?
"I readied my shield bracelet" can easily be translated as "I create a block using magic" in game terms. Mechanically, the shield would come into existence right there, but in the story, it only appears one it is used to deflect an attack.

I will allow some enchanted items to be used reactively as well, blocks are among them. Though I usually use the rule that if you use the block item actively, it lasts for the whole duration it was intended to. On the other hand, if it is used reactively, that use will only count against this one attack, and it will not last for anything more than that. I think that's a good compromise.

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In the vein of house rules, what's the thought on allowing focused practitioners to buy refinement in order to add bonuses to their specialties?
Well, specializations don't help them too much. Once they've got their +1/+2 filled, they can't get any higher, because the rules force them to keep at least a column build, much like skills.

I've proposed to go for specialized evocation, when it comes to channeling. The idea is to split the channeling element (or theme) into 3-5 subcategories and have them be your evocation elements. You can then buy specializations for those.

I think there's been the proposition of "blank specializations" somewhere, as well. That would mean that you can put points into blank specializations, which would then support your columns. You could have:

+3 fire control
+2 blank, fire power
+1 blank, blank

This would cost you 9 points of refinement, 4 of which would go into blank specializations.

I'm not sure how just removing the need for supporting columns would work out. The same column above could give you

+5 fire control
+4 fire power
+3
+2
+1

Since you'd have to allow this for wizards as well, I think, this could get lopsided pretty quickly.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Jreafman on July 16, 2014, 02:58:16 AM
I think it's for one stay only, though it's rather vague. The laws of hospitality work both ways though, so I would argue that once someone officially leaves in the spirit of hospitality, the invitation is void. By spirit of hospitality, I mean that the visit is over, they didn't just leave the house. So just stepping out once wouldn't end the invitation, but saying goodbye and leaving would.

I think Haru nailed it. If you invite Harry over for a BBQ in the backyard, and you invited him in the house, then went out back to grill, and he decided to head back into the house and grab a couple more beers, you wouldn't have to reinvite him each time you guys finished a beer. That would get tedious (unless you guys just drink really slow) :P On the other hand, once the BBQ is over and he leaves, he can't just walk back in anytime he wants.

I'm trying really hard to remember if in White Night he got invited in to the same Ordo Lebes member's residence multiple times. Like... if they specified him looking for an invitation more than once. I really wanna say the answer is yes.

I'm also thinking about the number of times that Harry has been inside the Raith Household. I'd have to go through and reread the books to be certain, but I feel very strongly that in Turn Coat he made certain to receive an invitation even though he'd been previously invited. Which would mean that we have a definitive answer on that one.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: bobjob on July 16, 2014, 04:54:55 AM
I'm trying really hard to remember if in White Night he got invited in to the same Ordo Lebes member's residence multiple times. Like... if they specified him looking for an invitation more than once. I really wanna say the answer is yes.

I'm also thinking about the number of times that Harry has been inside the Raith Household. I'd have to go through and reread the books to be certain, but I feel very strongly that in Turn Coat he made certain to receive an invitation even though he'd been previously invited. Which would mean that we have a definitive answer on that one.

I want to say I remember that the first time he had to swear an oath on his power to enter the Ordo Lebes apartment. The second time he busted in, leaving part of his power at the door hoping to catch the perp in the act. Dunno about the Raith household. I think he's only actually been in the house twice. Once in Blood Rites in which he was invited in and once again in Turn Coat where Harry and Captain Luccio entered in their capacity as Wardens (which would probably be an invite before Shagnasty showed up). The events of Blood Rites and White Night in the Deeps probably doesn't count because it's a cave on the property and not the house proper (besides, the second time he was met just past the gate by Lara who knew what he was going to do. She'd want him at full power since Harry was essentially acting as her catspaw vs the other White Court Houses).

I wouldn't imagine one of the many homes the Raith's have would have much of a threshold. Sure, some of them live there, but they seem transient enough until Lara takes it up as her base of power.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: narphoenix on July 16, 2014, 06:40:45 PM
2. The lawyer given a magic pistol that marks her as an agent of the Furies?

Here's a cookie. If you want, you can make the Pistol give the Kindly Magic Sponsored Magic, which has ignoring thresholds as a part of its benefit (the Eumenides Do Not Stop for anything):

(click to show/hide)

Also, Sancta made me get the warm fuzzes. XP
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Radecliffe on July 16, 2014, 09:26:19 PM
I would agree that a threshold invite is only good for that visit.  I am pretty sure that Murphy has tested Harry on more than one occasion using her threshold. 
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Melendwyr on July 16, 2014, 09:52:25 PM
In the books you occasionally see non-sponsored magic in the hands of laypeople who likely don't have spellcasting powers. Thomas uses multiple tracking spells, for example, in one short story. I also believe Harry teaches a couple of people how to make a magic warding circle. What's the consensus on how that is being done?

The circle is so basic that it can be enacted even without magical skill, mostly because instead of being infused with directed power an energy source is being directly applied to it (human blood).  The untrained will is enough to direct the energy into the established structure.

Remember, it's canon in the novels that anyone can learn to perform magic, but without sufficient magical senses to pick up on what's going on, there isn't enough feedback for people to develop.  The established metaphor is "learning to paint while being blind" - it's possible, just so difficult that it's practically impossible.

Thomas says that his spells are crude - he doesn't know enough to manage better ones (little Lore).  After being instructed by Bob (Lore bonus) he pulls off some better rituals.

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In the vein of house rules, what's the thought on allowing focused practitioners to buy refinement in order to add bonuses to their specialties?

I'm working on a one-point power that, when taken with either Ritual or Channeling, has the following effects:
It essentially 'upgrades' Ritual and/or Channeling to Thaumaturgy and Evocation while restricting them to a single specialized focus.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 17, 2014, 12:36:24 AM
Thanks again for the replies. You've clarified some things and made me think about others. Narphoenix, I appreciate the sponsored magic write-up but the player has no interest in being a spellcaster. She's more akin to the Knights of the Cross.

I do have a few more magic questions if y'all will indulge me.

1. When casting an offensive spell, how do shifts beyond the spell's original power level count? I.e. if I cast a 4 shift fireball spell and get a result of 7 on my roll+skill+foci bonus, does the fireball count as a Weapon:4 or a Weapon:7? Does the target roll to defend against a difficulty of 4 or a difficulty of 7? Do I add the difference between my roll and the target's roll to the stress caused by the attack?

2. As I understand it, you can't create a Focus Item with more + bonuses than your Lore rating. You also can't create an Enchanted Item with a greater effect than your Lore rating. Is this a blanket rule? Or can you use extra item slots to increase a bonus rating on Focus Items beyond Lore and an effect on Enchanted Items greater than Lore?

3. And one last question on thresholds. Would you consider the abandoned ghost house in the Night Fears case file from Evil Hat to have one? Or has it been abandoned so long that the threshold has died away?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: MijRai on July 17, 2014, 12:51:17 AM
1. When casting an offensive spell, how do shifts beyond the spell's original power level count? I.e. if I cast a 4 shift fireball spell and get a result of 7 on my roll+skill+foci bonus, does the fireball count as a Weapon:4 or a Weapon:7? Does the target roll to defend against a difficulty of 4 or a difficulty of 7? Do I add the difference between my roll and the target's roll to the stress caused by the attack?

2. As I understand it, you can't create a Focus Item with more + bonuses than your Lore rating. You also can't create an Enchanted Item with a greater effect than your Lore rating. Is this a blanket rule? Or can you use extra item slots to increase a bonus rating on Focus Items beyond Lore and an effect on Enchanted Items greater than Lore?

3. And one last question on thresholds. Would you consider the abandoned ghost house in the Night Fears case file from Evil Hat to have one? Or has it been abandoned so long that the threshold has died away?

Thanks again!

Weapon: 4, 7 shifts of effect.  So, the person has to resist it, with a goal of getting 8 (yoinks!).  If they fail, they take 4 damage, plus whatever shifts are leftover.  Remember, attacker 'wins' ties in the FATE systems, although it doesn't mean much without a rating or shifts to boost the effect.

I was never much of a crafter, so I can't answer that one.

Well, you mention both abandoned and ghosts.  I would assume, if nobody (living) lives there and hasn't for some time, there's no Threshold to worry about.  It's like the Three Days Grace song; "This house is not a-Home!"
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 17, 2014, 01:11:04 AM
1. When casting an offensive spell, how do shifts beyond the spell's original power level count? I.e. if I cast a 4 shift fireball spell and get a result of 7 on my roll+skill+foci bonus, does the fireball count as a Weapon:4 or a Weapon:7? Does the target roll to defend against a difficulty of 4 or a difficulty of 7? Do I add the difference between my roll and the target's roll to the stress caused by the attack?
When casting an attack spell, the roll actually does 2 things: It serves as an attack roll and it serves to determine how much power you can control.

You start out by declaring how many shifts of power you want to summon for your attack. That will be your weapon rating for the spell. If you say 4, it's a weapon:4 spell, if you say 7, it's a weapon:7 spell. For the example, let's stick with the 4 shifts.

Then you roll your dice. You roll a 7, which is more than 4 shifts, so you control the power and the spell doesn't change.

Your attack roll was 7, so your opponent has to defend against a 7 shift weapon:4 attack.

Let's switch it up. This time, you decide to do a 7 shift spell, but only roll a 4.

First we need to look at the power again. You lack 3 shifts, which you have to make up somehow. The options are: invoke enough aspects to boost your roll, take backlash or release the energy as fallout.
Invoking an aspect is easy, either free tags or spending Fate points will do, and the result of your roll increases. If you get enough shifts to completely control your spell, proceed as usual.
Backlash means that you take the difference between your roll and the power your wanted to summon as stress and the spell goes of as normal. So in this case, you'd have to take 3 shifts of stress (mental or physical, your choice). You can also take consequences, to lower the amount, just as with any stress you take.
Fallout means you can't control the excess energy you summoned and it flies around. It is encouraged to think of a way to do so that would be somewhat detrimental to the caster. If you choose this option, the power of the spell is reduced, so in this case your weapon:7 spell would only be a weapon:4 attack.

Your opponent would have to defend against a 4 shift attack in both cases of backlash or fallout, since that's what you rolled. In the case of backlash, it would be a weapon:7 attack, in the case of fallout, it would only be a weapon:4 attack.


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2. As I understand it, you can't create a Focus Item with more + bonuses than your Lore rating. You also can't create an Enchanted Item with a greater effect than your Lore rating. Is this a blanket rule? Or can you use extra item slots to increase a bonus rating on Focus Items beyond Lore and an effect on Enchanted Items greater than Lore?
The base effect of an enchanted item is equal to your lore. You can add enchanted item slots to increase that number by 1 per item slot, but you may not exceed double your lore. You may also add an enchanted item slot to an item to increase the number of uses by 2. You may not have more enchanted item slots on an item than your lore skill. All this can be found in Your Story page 280.

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3. And one last question on thresholds. Would you consider the abandoned ghost house in the Night Fears case file from Evil Hat to have one? Or has it been abandoned so long that the threshold has died away?
If nobody lives there, there's nobody to keep up the threshold. Or rather if nobody makes it a home, there is no threshold. People crashing in a ruin or occupying a place might not be enough to actually make it a home with a threshold.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 22, 2014, 01:27:50 PM
Okay! One last question and I think I'm ready to run the game.

How long does shapeshifting take? I can't seem to find a reference. Would you consider it a supplemental action or a full action?
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 22, 2014, 01:42:12 PM
It's a supplemental action, it says so directly in the power, I believe.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 22, 2014, 03:07:28 PM
Modular Abilities takes a full action, though.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Cadd on July 22, 2014, 04:38:08 PM
Modular Abilities takes a full action, though.
Along with the in-book Variable Abilities. I feel they need some kind of way to become supplemental aswell though (at least in combination with True Shapeshifting) after reading Turn Coat and Skin Game. Not sure how to balance it though, as it seems pretty darn powerful.

Shapechanging is generally supplemental according to YS, just before the entry on Beast Change.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 22, 2014, 04:51:34 PM
Maybe a quick expansion: Shapechanging itself doesn't cost anything, no time, no supplemental surcharge. What does cost you is the skill shuffle from the beast change power and "form follows function" from Modular Abilities.

And I think what you call Variable Abilities is the same thing as Modular Abilities. But in the book, it's called Modular Abilities.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Cadd on July 22, 2014, 06:51:44 PM
Maybe a quick expansion: Shapechanging itself doesn't cost anything, no time, no supplemental surcharge. What does cost you is the skill shuffle from the beast change power and "form follows function" from Modular Abilities.
True, good thing to point out! Simply changing shape is actually really no cost, it's just when it's an advantage (skill shuffling or something else) that is actually costs anything.

And I think what you call Variable Abilities is the same thing as Modular Abilities. But in the book, it's called Modular Abilities.
Haha, also true of course! I could have sworn that "Modular Abilities" was the wiki-power with a variable surcharge and you predefine what you can switch among, and "Variable Abilites" was the book version, but of course I had those two swapped :p
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 25, 2014, 02:16:20 PM
Thanks for the answers. The question of shapeshifting came up last night, actually. I ran a test scene to help everyone learn the rules and the character in question shifted into her housecat form and then stealthed. I gave her a penalty of -1 for the Supplemental Action of shifting (and changing her skills around because of it).

Which brings me to my next question (I know. I've got tons!).

The test scenario I ran had three members of the group on an errand for the Summer Court. Winter had stolen Walt Disney's first inking brush and were planning on using it as the focus of a ritual to bring a hard frost to the area in an effort to shift power away from Summer and towards Winter. The team was charged with retrieving the brush. They tracked the two ghouls who stole it to a graveyard. The brush had been placed on a stone, above ground coffin while the ghouls awaited the arrival of their employer. Conflict ensued.

During the first exchange, while two party members kept the ghouls busy, the shapeshifter stealthed past the bad guys and grabbed the brush. During the second exchange, she announced she was going to take the brush and run. Everyone agreed that they were going to follow her example.

It was getting late and I didn't want to run a chase scene so I figured they could jump into a car and speed away. The ghouls are fast but they can't outpace a car going full out.

Which brings me to my question. What would the ending of this conflict be considered? The players point out (rightly so) that their objective was to retrieve the brush and NOT to destroy the ghouls. Therefore, they don't feel that they were Conceding the battle. They won, after all. They got the brush back. On the other hand, the enemy wasn't Taken Out in any traditional sense.

Would this be a symbolic "Taken Out" effect? The team declares victory, announces that the way the battle ends is they get away with the brush, and we move onto the next scene? Or is this some sort of grey area in between?
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Mr. Death on July 25, 2014, 02:31:13 PM
I would roll being able to escape as a challenge -- the ghouls may not be able to outrun a car going full out, but they can definitely outrun a couple PCs heading for a car. The players could be proactive about this, and throw up some kind of block to escape, or just defend against the ghouls' attempts to stop them, but they shouldn't get to just "declare" the victory.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Haru on July 25, 2014, 02:40:27 PM
I disagree. Saying they got the brush and are now getting away to their car, with the ghouls on their tails can be a valid result, if the group decides. They could just as well have said they get the brush and escape, without the ghouls following them, but this makes it a lot more dramatic.

What you could do is use this as a hook for the next arc. One of the ghouls might have scratched one of the players, and that could have left enough blood/skin for the ghouls or their masters to track them down.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Taran on July 25, 2014, 03:22:54 PM
Yeah, I think ideally, a chase scene to the car would have been good, but because it was late, I think you chose a good resolution. 

You could play it out as a mutual concession.  The PC's got the brush but the ghouls can now identify the PC's.

Doing as Haru suggests is also a way of going about it.  Or maybe, the brush was slightly damage.  Maybe a couple of hairs from the brush fell out and the wizard can use those to track it.

I see a potential for a compel in here, somewhere.

Yes, you got away but (offering everyone a fp) they are going to be able to track you down at some point.  It can be a compel on individual aspects for each PC or a compel on one of the city aspects, if any are relevant.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 26, 2014, 12:27:40 AM
I think it's okay if the scene just ends. There doesn't have to be a take-out or a concession or whatever. Sometimes people just stop fighting, without anyone having really lost.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Cadd on July 26, 2014, 09:25:15 AM
I would either switch this to a chase scene or treat it like concession from the ghouls. The PCs got what they wanted, but the ghouls aren't really taken out of the conflict. Probably something along the lines of what's been suggested - the ghouls will come after the PCs later, the PCs will be ambushed just before delivery, the ghouls employer considers this conflict personal now, etc.
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: JGray on July 27, 2014, 05:22:55 PM
Once again, thank you for the feedback. I've got another question.

I'm looking over Milestones for advancement. Under Minor Milestones you have the option to 'purchase stunts or powers, provided you have the refresh to do so.'

Under Major Milestones you get 'new stunts and/or powers'. I am unclear of what this means, exactly. Why is the same option under both minor and major milestones?
Title: Re: New GM Questions
Post by: Cadd on July 27, 2014, 05:56:56 PM
It comes down to the detail that a Minor Milestone allows one of several things, one of which is purchasing stunts/powers. The Major Milestone sort of "contains" a Significant Milestone, which likewise "contains" a Minor.

Since the Major gives you the ability to purchase stunts/powers directly, you can then still pick one of the other options from the "packaged" Minor Milestone that comes along with it. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to both spend that new juicy refresh you got and shuffle two skills, for example.