eeerrr debt? is that in the book ???Yes, in the sponsored magic section. Basically you gain the benefit of spending a fate point, but instead of actually spending one you gain a point of debt per fate point. Then at some future point, your debt will be compelled. Accepting the compel means you lose that debt, and do not gain any other benefit. Refusing a compel costs a fate point, like usual - but the debt remains, even after you pay the fate point.
Hope you don't mind if I piggybag and ask my own question.Being able to use your Thaumaturgy control/power bonuses for Evocation is pretty explicitly a 1 Refresh power (Kemmlerian Necromancy), and The phrase "thaumaturgy at Evocation's speed and methods" seems firmly support that this is one way to use Evothaum.
I feel very strongly that complexity and control bonuses meant for Ritual/Thaumaturgy spells should not be applied to evothaum spells. While the book's blurb on evothaum is far from comprehensive, this bit from YS 288seems to heavily imply that evothaum is not meant to impart any meaningful mechanical benefits, rather it just allows the caster greater freedom in how he or she describes the spells they cast. Allowing complexity and control bonuses meant for Ritual/Thaumaturgy spells count for your typical Evocation spells essentially triples their worth.(click to show/hide)
Example: +1 complexity (Ritual), +1 Control (Ritual), +1 Offensive Power (Channeling), +1 Offensive Control (Channeling), +1 Defensive Power (Channeling), and +1 Defensive Control (Channeling) (a total of 3 refresh worth of refinements) can all be substituted for +1 complexity (Ritual) and +1 Control (Ritual) (one refresh worth of refinements).
This adds way to much power to Sponsored Magic, which already benefits from the "Extra Benefit" and ability to take on sponsor debt. Agree or disagree?
Yeah, as Cadd says.this where it gets a bit op imo.
But you can also just cast a spell that's, for example, 4 shifts over your discipline and conviction, which would mean that you'd have to take high amounts of casting stress and backlash to get the spell off the ground, but instead, you ask your sponsor to take that instead. The general rate is 2 shifts of stress for 1 point of debt, just like invoking fate points, though you could just as well bargain that your sponsor takes the entirety of the spell for 1 point of debt. That's up to how your table likes to deal with this.
this where it gets a bit op imo.It still has to be agreed upon by the table. And if the table has fun letting the character level a skyscraper with 1 point of sponsor debt, I'm not going to stand in the way.
this where it gets a bit op imo.
The situation GM vs Players is wrong by default.True, but a lot of people are primed like that from other games. Including myself, I had to unlearn a few things as well.
If I were to let a player get away with one point of sponsor debt like that I'd make sure that when it comes to paying it back that they're going tothat only applies to sponsored magic not the self sponsored kind no such limitation with self sposored magicsuffer for itregret itbegin to rethink their decision to give up some free will for power. The way I've always looked at Sponsor Debt is that the more you take out, the more you have to pay at the end (from a narrative point of view), so if a newly minted Winter Knight were to level a skyscraper with one spell I'd have Mab then show up and order him to do something that is both interesting and very, very dangerous. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch, especially when you're a Faerie Queen'sbitchKnight.m
No, the same thing applies to the self-sponsored stuff. Debt is bad to have.in theory but notin in practice.
in theory but notin in practice.
As long as you're getting compelled the debt mechanic is doing what it's supposed to do.Who does the compeling
Who does the compeling
For sponsor debt? The GM. He is the voice of the sponsor so he is the one that tells you what the offer is.if its self sponsored who does it then
The GM.
were is the rule that allows GM to do it.Self-Sponsored Magic debt is handled the same way that normal Sponsor Debt is handled. The actual power is below.