When I was saying about D&D-like combat summons, I thought about Snakeboy's snakes. Is it some sort of reflavoured fireball?
Fortunately there are ways to use rituals with evocation's speed.I am comparatively weak in DFRPG's magic for now (ouch, it's much more tough than other rules). Could you explain what are these ways?
Sanctaphrax, I see, you treat loyalty and mental capability of a summoned creature as a multiplier to the ritual's complexity.
I am comparatively weak in DFRPG's magic for now (ouch, it's much more tough than other rules). Could you explain what are these ways?
One of my players is considering something like this (specifically, her inspiration is Yuna of FFX), and we decided sponsored magic, with the sponsor being either the summoned creatures in aggregate or their ruler (i.e., a Bahamut analog) and smooth over the whole thing about beating the creature's will as part of the sponsor benefits--the deals have already been made, the summoner is just calling in a quick favor.I like it
What I came up with for the tentative Evothaum (character's still in the hypothetical stages), amounts to:
Base, 1-shift spell gets you a minion for one scene, with no refresh spent, and a skillcap of 3. So something that might be useful as a second set of hands, but not really powerful.
You can raise the creature's skillcap by 1 for each additional shift, up to 5 normally (I'm thinking some kind of diminishing returns to discourage going above that--maybe you need an additional 2 shifts to bump it to 6, an additional 3 to get it to 7...or maybe they can't summon something with a skillcap above their Lore?).
Additional shifts can be devoted to powers, with one refresh equal to one shift.
So, on this model, her "Shiva" summon would have a 5-shift cost--skillcap up to 5 for Weapons, with an ice-based breath weapon. Since the summons are ectoplasmic bodies that only last for a scene, the Recovery powers can be cut out entirely to save costs. The Catch is factored into toughness powers (the ice summon would be obviously weak to fire, etc.).
She's considering having each summon as a Rote spell, with attendant focus items to help cover the power costs.
Thoughts?
I'm gonna break with the crowd here to say that I don't like that plan.Yeah, I was going to do that--like I said, either by just saying they couldn't summon something with a skill cap over their Lore, or by the diminishing returns. Would it make more sense that a 3-shift spell would be needed for a Good skillcap?
1 shift for a summon with a Good skill cap is really really cheap. A 1-shift spell is pretty worthless, but a Good fighter can be a big help in a fight. It can maneuver every round. And a Good craftsman/liar/driver/whatever can be really useful.
3 shifts for Superb skills is also probably too good.
Anything beyond Superb is supposed to be really rare. I suggest strongly limiting the ability to summon things with above-Superb skills.
Consider that skill replacement normally costs 1 shift per skill shift. It lasts for one roll, and doesn't give you any extra actions. This is scene-long, and using the skill doesn't consume other actions, and it may include other skills as well.One of the rules me and the player decided on was that she'd only be able to have one summoned creature out at a time--she'd control it, but it'd also 'replace' her turn.
Also consider that you can generally combine X Y-shift spells into a YX-shift spell. Would you let someone create five Good fighters with a 5-shift spell?
I don't know Final Fantasy well, but I hear its summons are kind of like Golden Sun's. You have a list of big monsters that you can call in for a single massive attack.Normally, yes--but FFX, this player's inspiration, does it differently, where the summoned creature comes out and fights in the summoner's stead until either the fight's over, the creature's beaten, or it's dismissed.
If that's what your player is after, I can think of a number of good ways to handle this:I like that second option of those. If the third is the one you linked to before, it seemed to me that it ratcheted up the price really fast.
-Just add cool fluff to evocations.
-Make a list of summons and assign a shift cost to each based on rules-free judgement. Let her summon from that list and only from that list.
-Use a free-form system kind of like the one I use. But make every summon last one scene (or maybe even less) and make the summons stick to combat skills. In exchange, make combat-related stuff cheaper.
Yeah, I was going to do that--like I said, either by just saying they couldn't summon something with a skill cap over their Lore, or by the diminishing returns. Would it make more sense that a 3-shift spell would be needed for a Good skillcap?
One of the rules me and the player decided on was that she'd only be able to have one summoned creature out at a time--she'd control it, but it'd also 'replace' her turn.
...
Normally, yes--but FFX, this player's inspiration, does it differently, where the summoned creature comes out and fights in the summoner's stead until either the fight's over, the creature's beaten, or it's dismissed.
If the third is the one you linked to before, it seemed to me that it ratcheted up the price really fast.
If the summon is replacing the summoner, then it can be implemented as straight up skill substitution for the summoner.
Except that skill substitution spells are only for one roll each.
I think he's referring to the fact that a thaumaturgy spell lasts "1 scene". Therefore, if your potion is a skill replacer with a duration of 1 scene...
I'd had a similar question. It just seems powerful, though, to replace any given skill with your Lore+foci for an unlimited amount of rolls.
The other other other option is to do the normal summoning/binding/controlling action in the background and do 'combat summoning' as a maneuver to bring one of your already contracted allies to the battle.
I just spent the past half hour trying to find that conversation, and I'm coming up blank. In fact, I can't find any of my own posts from 2010 to 2012, so either they have been eaten, or the conversation was on one of the writers own blogs, as I _know_ I had questions about the adjudication of thaumaturgy for self shapeshifting and that it predated actually starting my current game.