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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 05:00:53 AM

Title: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 05:00:53 AM
I am a life time nerd and gamer first time i have posted on anything ever. i have made a scion of a svartevel or dark elf in Norse mythology. my gen approved the idea of a 300 year old craftsman he has ritual refinement (crafting) twice three mortal stunts letting him use craftsmanship for discipline lore conviction for making stuff, inhuman recovery and he also has the disabled power thing for ritual he has agoraphobia making him a whistler type support character what my question is do you know anything i could do to make him an epic force of creation and not entirely game break the world?
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Mrmdubois on March 26, 2013, 05:13:57 AM
First you could lay out his character sheet, skills, stunts, powers and all that in a clear, easy to read format.

Otherwise I'm not sure, because it will depend on how your stunts are worded, and how exactly you're using your refinements, etc.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Mrmdubois on March 26, 2013, 05:17:19 AM
Oh, and what's the games power level?
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 05:56:41 AM
OK duh on my part  ???
high concept: artificer svartevel shut-in
trouble aspect: limited economy
other aspects:
I give life
home sweet home
equivalent exchange
Don't worry about it
Skills: 35 sp
superb:craftsmanship; lore
great:scholarship;contacts
good:endurance;conviction
fair:intimidation;investigation;alertness
average:stealth;survival;deceit
mortal stunts
do you like it i built it myself (use craft for self made weapons)
-3 Artificer custom skill shuffle (allows use of craft instead of conviction lore discipline)(like a power but still a mortal stunt just three rolled into one)(i think we got rid of this in favor of the refinement)
scrapheap challenge (crafting two time shifts faster)
19th century tech 20th century solutions (+4 hexing scale on anything i craft)
Powers
-1 ritual(artifice)
+2 disability severe agoraphobia (takes mental stress when in large open spaces with a weapon 5)
0 wizards constitution
-1 its alive (allows for an exchange in crafting of stress for more life like constructs)
-2 refinement (4 focus items slots) specializations for better crafting the specific element spirit


man i am a noob typewriter been typing this whole time let me know what you think and what is needed   :P

just read the new post when trying to post this chest deep 10 refreash 35 skill points



 
 
Title: Any ideas
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 06:37:13 AM
so uh yeah any crafting based stuff i do need like powers or stunts that would make better golems and mechs
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Vairelome on March 26, 2013, 06:52:22 AM
A few comments:

The skill pyramid was followed, but you only have 33 of 35 points used.  You should have two more skills at Average (+1).

To power Ritual (Crafting), you need Lore and Discipline.  You don't need Conviction for Ritual at all (though it may be very necessary for your Mental Stress Track, given some of the other things you've listed).  You have both Craftsmanship and Lore as apex skills, so a stunt substituting Craftsmanship for Lore doesn't do anything useful.

In general, you will get more benefit from Refinement than any stunt for this build.  (Though Discipline is a must.)

Ritual (Crafting) is -2 refresh.  Refinement is -1 refresh each.

Ritual (Crafting) gives you 2 focus item slots.  Each point of Refinement gives 2 more.  If you want to maximize the utility of the stuff you create, your first priority should be a focus item of +5 Crafting Power.  I'd also pick up a second focus item of +3 Crafting Frequency.  (Ritual plus 3x Refinement should cover the focus items.)  Next, you want at least 2-3 more Refinement where the focus item slots are converted to enchanted item slots on a 1 to 2 basis.  (2x more Refinement gives 8 enchanted item slots; 3x gives 12.)  At this point, each enchanted item slot can be filled with some item that has a 10-shift effect, 4 uses per session.  With a bit of imagination, this can be an incredibly potent build.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 07:16:20 AM
yeah i was onto that for a while my gn is as new to the game as i am but i have already made a ton of utility based homunculus
that add two to my complexity in certain instances (gn approval) and a robot hand to aid in frequency and i did forget to mention that are power level just went up so i forgot to do the math  :-[. he does trades for his items that he makes and so far he has yet to leave his laboratory and has just sent out his creations to do his bidding (mostly)
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 26, 2013, 10:59:11 AM
Also you need to take full thaumaturgy in order to get those refinements. Ritual only lets you get more focus item slots
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Mrmdubois on March 26, 2013, 11:08:07 AM
You take Refinement to get focus item slots, that's what it looks like he did to me.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 26, 2013, 12:23:42 PM
Right, sorry. I meant specialties. They are somwhat helpful since you dont have to devote focus slots to them and you can get an extra +2/+1 pretty easy with thaumaturgy and 1 refinement.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: KOFFEYKID on March 26, 2013, 12:51:21 PM
I have to pop in here to warn you that a focused crafter is really scary powerful, more so than the average wizard. If balance is a concern in your game, you should be concerned.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 26, 2013, 01:01:34 PM
Yea, that is true. I just made one. Actually I made a guy a lot like your proposed one. But the people I was playing with were sceptical and I had to defend it.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Haru on March 26, 2013, 01:16:21 PM
There are quite a few things off here.
do you like it i built it myself (use craft for self made weapons)
Craftsmanship is used to create things anyway. I don't think a stunt is necessary for that.

Quote
-3 Artificer custom skill shuffle (allows use of craft instead of conviction lore discipline)(like a power but still a mortal stunt just three rolled into one)(i think we got rid of this in favor of the refinement)
Technically this is ok, but pushing everything into one skill is something I am generally very weary about. What's more, you have lore and craftsmanship at the same level, so that is basically 1 point of refresh going to waste. Conviction is not really needed for crafting as well, so that's another point of refresh you could safe. The last one to replace discipline with craftsmanship is the only one that might make sense, but only if you need to create an item in a hurry.

Quote
scrapheap challenge (crafting two time shifts faster)
Nothing wrong with that.

Quote
19th century tech 20th century solutions (+4 hexing scale on anything i craft)
Don't really understand what this is supposed to do. Make your constructs more resilient against hexing? They are magical constructs anyway, so hexing wouldn't be an issue.

Quote
-1 ritual(artifice)
Ritual is always [-2], regardless of what kind of ritual you take.

Quote
+2 disability severe agoraphobia (takes mental stress when in large open spaces with a weapon 5)
That's kind of weird. Things like that are usually handled by compels on a character aspect. Is that a house rule?

Quote
-1 its alive (allows for an exchange in crafting of stress for more life like constructs)
The rules allow you to spend stress and even consequences anyway, when you are casting or creating an item. There's no need for a stunt.

Quote
-2 refinement (4 focus items slots) specializations for better crafting the specific element spirit
Sounds good.


If you want to have a big, powerful golem ready at your service, the easiest way to go would be to make it a second character and not worry about how to summon or build it. You could create him at the same level as your character, or a bit below, depending on what you can agree on with your GM. If he is concerned about it being too powerful, he can always increase the opposition as if the golem was an additional PC on the table. You can even have the GM control the golem and your character can only control him indirectly by giving him orders.

The golem should probably have the "walking dead" power. If the golem takes stress or consequences, they don't go away automatically, you use your craftsmanship to repair it. The time needed is the same as for any other consequences.

Anything else you want to do, you can store in enchanted items and potions. If you keep a few free potion slots, you can do a lore declaration at any given time to say that you have a magical device for just such an occasion. The difficulty will be set by the GM. This will cost you one potion slot at that moment, of course, but it's worth it.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Vairelome on March 26, 2013, 01:18:47 PM
Right, sorry. I meant specialties. They are somwhat helpful since you dont have to devote focus slots to them and you can get an extra +2/+1 pretty easy with thaumaturgy and 1 refinement.

For general purposes I agree that the upgrade to full Thaumaturgy is (eventually) worthwhile, but the reason is for the flexibility in being able to do things other than crafting, not because it makes your crafting any better.

For 4 refresh, you could get Thaumaturgy and one Refinement, giving you +2/+1 in specialties, plus an extra +2 Crafting Power from the Thaumaturgy focus item slots, for a grand total of +4 Crafting Power and +1 Crafting Frequency.

However, if you stuck with Ritual (Crafting), for the same 4 refresh, you'd have Ritual and 2x Refinement for six focus item slots total, giving you +5 Crafting Power and +1 Crafting Frequency.  While all of your bonuses are from focus items, this isn't really an issue, because the full Thaumaturgy build also gets some of its bonus from focus items, and unlike most other types of focus items, it's not necessary to take your Crafting focus items out in the field--they can stay safely in the lab.

The top priority a crafter has is getting his Crafting Power bonus up to the cap, which is his Lore rating--and Lore ought to be one of his apex skills.  Most (full Thaumaturgy) or all (Ritual only) of this bonus will be from a focus item.  Once you have that, picking up 2-3 points of Crafting Frequency is my preference.  You can cap out Frequency as well, but I don't think you'll usually need six uses per session off multiple enchanted items; three or four uses per session ought to be enough, since you can spend a point of mental stress to get an extra use once the normal limit is reached.

I have to pop in here to warn you that a focused crafter is really scary powerful, more so than the average wizard. If balance is a concern in your game, you should be concerned.

This is quite true, an optimized crafter is one of the most powerful builds available in the RAW.  His major offensive advantages are swinging Weapon:10 effects before a wizard can reasonably get to that power level and being able to outlast the Evocation/Channeling focused practitioners that can match his Weapon rating.  (He should also have better defensive enchanted items as well, and crazy flexibility with powerhouse potions for every occasion.)

He does have one downside compared to an Evocation/Channeling combat caster or wizard--usually his to hit caps out at +5 (his Discipline rating), where the other types of casters would cap out higher than that, due to Control bonuses.  From what I remember, that's the one spot where he's merely mortal.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: KOFFEYKID on March 26, 2013, 01:25:07 PM
The power isn't so much in his attacks.

His defenses are formidable (Armor 5, 10 Shift Blocks, 10 shift veils, etc), as well as his mobility (supplemental 5 zone movement and such).
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 02:51:11 PM
you are correct that he only crafts and that refinement was only taken for the extra item slots not the specialization element we just put spirit down cause it seemed to be the closest thing related to crafting.

oh and got the ritual on the cheap cause of Disability Super(natural) Power [-varies]
Description: You have a disability linked to a supernatural power. Maybe you're blind, but have skill with divination to compensate. Maybe you're inhumanly fast, but not as fast as your biopolarism can make your moods swing. Maybe you're able to move swiftly and silently in the shadows... because you're an albino who is harmed by the sunlight. Maybe you're superstrong... but seizures are a constant threat. Maybe you can shapeshift, but you always are missing that pinkie (or hand!), no matter whose or what appearance you're copying. And so forth.
Skills Affected: None—or any. Skills should be penalized or assigned based on the high concept. For example, a Deaf character should be required to have at least one rank in Scholarship, with the associated language of ASL, or a character with mobility problems should have a cap on their Athletics skill.
Musts: Must have a high concept that is related to both the disability and the power, for example BLIND PSYCHOMETRIC DETECTIVE.
Effects:
Supernatural Disability Power. You have a disability. This grants you a discount on one or more supernatural powers that are linked to it. The cost reduction to those powers is based on how intrusive and problematic the disability is. If the disability is ever cured, healed, or removed, the cost reduction goes away.

If the disability is severe, requiring special accommodation to function in modern society (blindness, serious mobility issues, etc), it's worth a +2.

If the disability threatens you medically (seizures, diseases requiring a strict drug regime, etc) its a +2.

If the disability is an issue that affects your quality of life but can be worked around without extreme cost/effect (missing/paralyzed limbs, deafness, issues requiring moderately expensive drug treatments, etc) its worth a +1.

Disabilities cannot reduce the total cost of linked powers below -1.

and the stunts
19th Century Tech, 20th Century Solutions (CMEast: Forum Post): You are able to make useful items, such as weapons, with non-electric, mechanical technology (clockwork, pneumatic power, etc). Items you create count as +4 higher on the Hexing Table (page YS : 258). very steampunk

"Do you like it? I made it myself": A weapon you made yourself, is a weapon you know really well. Pick melee or ranged. Use Craftsmanship to make attacks and manoeuvres with weapons of that type that you personally built from scratch. back you savages
 
i love the new improvements and will do a refit on his powers/stunts the next time my group gets together
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 26, 2013, 03:05:05 PM
Yea those make sense.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Haru on March 26, 2013, 03:05:45 PM
oh and got the ritual on the cheap cause of Disability Super(natural) Power [-varies]
Ah ok. Ritual would still cost 2 refresh though, you'd just get a rebate of 1, due to this. As it is written, it looks like ritual + disease gives you +1 refresh, instead of -1 it should. Usually, if there is a rebate power, you write it down like this:

supernatural disease [+1]
affecting:
 ritual (artificer) [-2]

In this case, the disease is +1, because it can't lower the costs of ritual below -1. It does not give a blanket +2 refresh bonus. Like the catch to toughness powers.

Second, I think the disease power is meant to be in line with the power, hindering it in some way. In your case, some sort of magical arthritis might be fitting, limiting how good you are at webbing those magical energies into an item, something like that. Look at the description of the power.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 03:17:10 PM
yes that is why if out in a huge open space he takes an automatic panic attack (weapon 5) and basically loses all higher brain function in a full body compulsion to get inside now or go absolutely mad as a hatter in a nutshell taking him out side is effectively Taking him out :'(
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Lavecki121 on March 26, 2013, 03:28:32 PM
Second, I think the disease power is meant to be in line with the power, hindering it in some way. In your case, some sort of magical arthritis might be fitting, limiting how good you are at webbing those magical energies into an item, something like that. Look at the description of the power.

I think that his makes sense. Look at the example of the albino. They are good at being in the shadows because the sun is dangerous. It makes sense for someone who likes to be cooped up in his home to be good at crafting stuff.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 03:38:04 PM
the high concept IS artificer svartelves shut-in for that very reason, the reason he has agoraphobia is because he lost in a dog fight with the red baron and in stead of being taken out when he crashed into the water was that he took an extreme consequence
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 26, 2013, 04:37:37 PM
so on a side note any thoughts about a clockwork dragon "boss"monster 
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 26, 2013, 10:20:09 PM
I don't like Disability Superpower much. I think that kind of thing is best handled with Compels.

If you're interested in custom Powers and Stunts and the like, there are some lists on the Resources board that you should check out. I can post links if you want, and I can pick out a few Powers that you might find useful.

Also, I suggest you use a different character sheet template. Because the one you have there is kind of hard to read.

There are some house rules for pets and allies out there. They're not great, but you might find them useful if you want to have minions.

There are also some house rules for creating characters with rituals out there. They are significantly better than the pet and ally rules.

Are you interested?

There are quite a few things off here.Craftsmanship is used to create things anyway. I don't think a stunt is necessary for that.

Pretty sure the stunt lets him wield the weapons with Craftsmanship.

Technically this is ok, but pushing everything into one skill is something I am generally very weary about. What's more, you have lore and craftsmanship at the same level, so that is basically 1 point of refresh going to waste. Conviction is not really needed for crafting as well, so that's another point of refresh you could safe. The last one to replace discipline with craftsmanship is the only one that might make sense, but only if you need to create an item in a hurry.

This could be really broken on another character, but it's being used incredibly suboptimally so it's actually underpowered.
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: S1C0 on March 27, 2013, 04:22:23 AM
at Sanctaphrax

yes i would like to have the links you mentioned about regarding all of what you mentioned i have been trying to get a bigger
data pool on various subjects, minions in particular are a thing of interest because so far only one PC in my group is a lone wolf type and we were planing on fighting in a haunted civil war battle and the core focus was about strategy and
less on hack and slash
Title: Re: playable artificer in dfrpg
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 28, 2013, 12:55:12 AM
Okay, here are a bunch of links to homebrew things that might conceivably be relevant. My opinion on the quality of each is in brackets.

Pets and Allies (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,30475.0.html). (Bit of a mess.)

Summoning (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24744.msg1084269.html#msg1084269). (Pretty good, but potentially abusable.)

Powers (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43356063/Custom%20Powers%20Master%20List%20%28V3%29.odt). (Uneven. Some stuff I like a lot, some I don't.)

Stunts (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43356063/Homebrew%20Stunt%20List%20%28Revised%29.odt). (Pretty solid.)

Items Of Power (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43356063/Item%20of%20power%20list.docx). (Most good.)

Sponsored Magic (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43356063/Sponsored%20Magic%20Master%20List.odt). (Generally good, with one or two exceptions.)

I suggest you look at the Semi-Animate, Limitation, and Alternate Magical Paradigm Powers in particular. The Powers document is searchable, so they should be easy to find.