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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Lavecki121 on January 31, 2013, 10:32:44 PM

Title: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on January 31, 2013, 10:32:44 PM
Ok so I'm trying to make Dante's weapons from DmC, the new Devil May Cry game. Ebony and Ivory are pretty straightforward, they are just guns that dont need to be reloaded. However in DmC, Dante's sword, Rebelion, has the ability to change into an angelic Scythe called Osiris, and can also change into the Demonic Axe Arbiter. I'm wondering how I should stat this. As far as speed goes in decending order Osiris, Rebelion, Arbiter. And the opposite for damage output. Im wondering if anyone has any suggestions.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Tedronai on January 31, 2013, 10:52:02 PM
From the descriptions given, alone, I'd say these aren't really worth being written up as Items of Power.
Guns not needing reloading is merely an issue of not getting compelled to need to reload your guns, and as such, not worth refresh, so if those aren't also substantially better than other guns in some additional ways, then there's nothing to get a rebate on and you might as well leave it just as an aspect.
For the shapeshifting weapon, weapon ratings in the DFrpg are very coarse.  It doesn't so much matter whether your weapon is more deadly because of it's single hit damage potential or it's potential for quick consecutive attacks, it'll end up with the same or a similar weapon rating in any case.  Each of those three forms seems like it would be (for a normal version of that weapon) about weapon:3 or so.
I really don't see shifting your weapon between those three forms as being worth meaningful refresh, so I'd tack a [-0] power on there, at most, and we end up with the same problem as above.  Unless they're also better than a normal sword/axe/scythe, they aren't worth being IoPs.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Dougansf on January 31, 2013, 11:04:44 PM
(Not knowing anything about DmC other than what you posted)

No matter the form, it's a Weapon 3.

+2 Item of Power affecting
-6 Modular Abilities (4 refresh worth of powers)

Then lock down that when in one form it gives you certain powers, namely:
Osiris gives Supernatural Speed
Rebellion gives you Inhuman Speed and Inhuman Strength
Arbiter gives you Supernatural Strength

Admittedly, these powers give you abilities beyond combat.  If that's undesired, then you'll have to figure something out for "modular skills" or similar.


Like Tedronai said, the guns just have a special aspect attached to them to prevent ammo compels.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Deadmanwalking on February 01, 2013, 03:26:12 AM
What Dougansf suggests sounds right to me, given the description.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 04:07:26 AM
That actually sounds really good thanks Dougan. I also had a question, though I think I may need to PM Sancta, is it possible to have each weapon grant soul fire and hell fire, respectively?
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Deadmanwalking on February 01, 2013, 04:11:11 AM
Sure...but having already grabbed the Item of Power bonus on this one that'd be expensive as hell (and a bad investment unless you have Evocation and Thaumaturgy already). Maybe just grab Evocation (possibly as an Item of Power thing) and have each gun be a Focus Item for a different Element, instead?
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 04:14:03 AM
It's just an idea I was working with. Want planning on using it at game start. That would cost 8 refresh correct? That kind seems odd to me though. If you get a rebate for having evocation or channeling, shouldn't you get a rebate for already having one form of sponsored magic?
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Mrmdubois on February 01, 2013, 04:19:54 AM
No, on account of the fact that it's basically like picking up Ritual and Channeling twice.  The reason you get a discount if you already have Evoction and Thaumaturgy is because you can already do everything the Sponsored Magic does.  All it adds mechanically is evothaum, sponsor debt, and whatever the extra benefit is.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Deadmanwalking on February 01, 2013, 04:20:57 AM
It's just an idea I was working with. Want planning on using it at game start. That would cost 8 refresh correct? That kind seems odd to me though. If you get a rebate for having evocation or channeling, shouldn't you get a rebate for already having one form of sponsored magic?

Nah, the rebate is for having magic that's broader than the Sponsored sort...it's for the overlap. Having two varieties of Sponsored Magic that don't interact...well, there isn't much overlap. It would give you 8 Focus Item Slots, so there's that. And cost no more than Evocation, Thaumaturgy and Soulfire...

Speaking of which, it'd be 9 Refresh, actually, because Soulfire is more expensive than other Sponsored Magic.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Tedronai on February 01, 2013, 04:26:00 AM
No, on account of the fact that it's basically like picking up Ritual and Channeling twice.  The reason you get a discount if you already have Evoction and Thaumaturgy is because you can already do everything the Sponsored Magic does.  All it adds mechanically is evothaum, sponsor debt, and whatever the extra benefit is.
Just some fact-checking:
Not all Sponsored Magics offer Evothaum, and access to Sponsor Debt isn't actually worth refresh (and is, in fact, assumed to be available to EVERY character, including Pure Mortals, under certain circumstances).
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Mrmdubois on February 01, 2013, 04:28:16 AM
Just some fact-checking:
Not all Sponsored Magics offer Evothaum, and access to Sponsor Debt isn't actually worth refresh (and is, in fact, assumed to be available to EVERY character, including Pure Mortals, under certain circumstances).

No, I know it has no mechanical +1 value or anything like that, but sponsored magic provides the mechanical and narrative justification to use it.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 04:18:54 PM
I believe that there is a Custom power in the Custom powers list called sponsor. Its a 0 power that lets you use sponsor debt.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
also just to make sure I am understanding the sponsored magic rules correctly. If I have channeling - Fire and take sponsored magic Hell Fire, That cost 6 Refresh correct?
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: JDK002 on February 01, 2013, 04:44:08 PM
also just to make sure I am understanding the sponsored magic rules correctly. If I have channeling - Fire and take sponsored magic Hell Fire, That cost 6 Refresh correct?
I don't have the books on me, but I'm fairly sure you get a +1 rebate because you have channeling.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Theonlyspiral on February 01, 2013, 04:49:40 PM
I don't have the books on me, but I'm fairly sure you get a +1 rebate because you have channeling.
That is in fact incorrect. You only get the Rebate with Evocation or Thaumaturgy (Or Both!)
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: JDK002 on February 01, 2013, 05:06:08 PM
That is in fact incorrect. You only get the Rebate with Evocation or Thaumaturgy (Or Both!)
Ohhh yeah, wouldn't make much sense to even get channeling or ritual seperately from sponsored magic now that I think about it.  Given How they already come packaged with a sponsor.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 05:28:52 PM
Another question, sorry im in the middle of making this character, if i take inhuman recovery in his human form and then supernatural recovery in his demon form does supernatural recovery only cost me an additional on top of inhuman -1 (-2 from inhuman -2 from supernatural upgrade +1 from human form)
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Deadmanwalking on February 01, 2013, 05:47:16 PM
Another question, sorry im in the middle of making this character, if i take inhuman recovery in his human form and then supernatural recovery in his demon form does supernatural recovery only cost me an additional on top of inhuman -1 (-2 from inhuman -2 from supernatural upgrade +1 from human form)

That's a valid construction, yes. Probably best written something like this:

Inhuman Recovery [-2]

Human Form [+1] effecting;
Supernatural Recovery [-2]

Of course, any other powers he gains in demon form would then not get the rebate, since you only get it once.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 07:30:30 PM
Right. Thanks.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Tedronai on February 01, 2013, 10:37:56 PM
If other powers were also available in non-human form, you could take a Catch with a value of +2 or +3 (or rather, do so without wasting it), or possibly have your Catch widen in your non-human form (say, from Soulfire to 'Holy stuff').
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 01, 2013, 11:16:27 PM
Huh. Hadn't thought of that. That is a good idea. Thanks Tedroni
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 02, 2013, 03:45:41 AM
That actually sounds really good thanks Dougan. I also had a question, though I think I may need to PM Sancta, is it possible to have each weapon grant soul fire and hell fire, respectively?

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Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Lavecki121 on February 02, 2013, 04:03:23 AM
Why yes, yes I was. What would you classify this as? It is two competing sponsors.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Hick Jr on February 02, 2013, 04:23:08 AM
The "Fire And Ice" example thing may be a good jumping-off point.
Title: Re: DmC Items of Power
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 02, 2013, 04:27:25 AM
If your list is just Hellfire, Soulfire, and maybe a Refinement for Hellfire, then that's a 1 Refresh list. Switching between Soulfire and Hellfire is not much better than just having Soulfire.

If you want to add some physical Powers that vary depending on your weapon's shape, that might bump up the surcharge to 2 Refresh.