Your skill rank costs are off. There are 25 skills. Inhuman Experience should require spending 25 skill ranks, Supernatural needs 50, and Mythic needs 75.
weird situations, this power could only be purchased at character creation. So:
And a downside, available at all levels (though more appropriate the older you are):
Not Keeping Up With The Times [+1]
While you may've seen and done a great deal, none of it involved these newfangled computers and car things. Unlike your other skills, your Driving remains at Mediocre, and your Craftsmanship, Guns, and Scholarship, while they do rise, and may indeed be any rating, are considered to be Mediocre for purposes of dealing with modern technology such as computers, actual surgery, or automatic weapons.
.
.
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So...thoughts? I'm really unsure on the costs, basically. I know what I want the powers to do...I'm just not so sure on the execution.
How do you want to treat skillcaps? Inhuman experience + feet in the water would allow for a superb skill easily, since it would actually only be a great one in price. If you've lived long enough, like the power suggests, you would have certainly have had the time to become a real pro in at least one profession. Seems a good fit to allow that with the power.
I would not exclude driving as well, mostly because it also includes navigation in a city and knowing the streets and such, which you can easily do without driving a car, especially, if you've walked those streets long enough to literally have left grooves in the pavement. You can still have it be mediocre for everything that involves moving a modern vehicle.
Again, my point stands: driving chariots.
Yeah...but for, say, Batman you could've used that 6 Refresh to easily buy a custom Power or a couple of Stunts to use one of his, say, two Fantastic skills for, potentially, several other skills, which would debatably be a better use of Refresh...though not as fun or cool, IMO.
Well, Mimic Abilities moves whole skills. But it's clearly balanced around the assumption that you won't just be able to copy whatever skills you want.
Wasn't there some discussion of true shapshifting (skills only) probably being a 3 point power? This seems to be a better deal, as you can switch out your highest skills, rather than have levels of lower skills that you don't much care about, anyway.
I have no problem with making Lily Fair at everything. Because I can't think of any skill she ought to be bad at. Can you?
She's not that experienced, sure, but sheer power can cover up for that deficiency.
And I think Kincaid might be at a higher power level than Lily. Lily has oodles of power, but she's probably deep in negative Refresh-land. Kincaid might not be.
I have no problem with making Lily Fair at everything. Because I can't think of any skill she ought to be bad at. Can you?
She's not that experienced, sure, but sheer power can cover up for that deficiency.
And I think Kincaid might be at a higher power level than Lily. Lily has oodles of power, but she's probably deep in negative Refresh-land. Kincaid might not be.
Actually, yes. Driving, Burglary, Scholarship, Craftsmanship, Might, and Guns. All off the top of my head, should all be Average at best, and Mediocre in many cases.
To some degree, sure. But it doesn't help you speak Etruscan or Ancient Sumerian, nor does it help you shoot a gun right.
Okay, what about the Senior Council? They don't strike me as all having Average or Fair Might, just for example, and surely you don't argue Kincaid's a higher power level than them?
Her enormous power makes her very dangerous, which easily justifies a decent Intimidation skill.
She's a faerie. Supernatural strength and grace, right? That should cover all of those.Certainly not Scholarship. Probably not Craftsmanship or Burglary, there's a lot of "knowledge" there.
I disagree. That gives her "context of power", but does she know how to use it? I doubt it.
Certainly not Scholarship. Probably not Craftsmanship or Burglary, there's a lot of "knowledge" there.
Also, what makes you think Lily has supernatural strength? Aurora didn't - Harry could physically hold her down & keep her away from the Table.
(Sure, she was dying... but holding down a dying Rampire or Blampire would be super dangerous. Aurora strikes me as no stronger than a human her size.)
Also, Aurora was killed by ordinary pixies (Fair Weapons). If she has Inhuman Speed, her Athletics is probably Average or Fair.
I could go through a whole thing on how I disagree and why on each point, but it all basically boils down to the fact that I do disagree. Not everyone with vast power is also good at everything. Some are, some are not. I find the idea of the Merlin being as strong physically as, say, Bily Borden ridiculous, and don't think grace (even inhuman grace) makes one inherently better at, say, driving a car. If it did, wouldn't everything with Inhuman Physical stuff get certain skills for free? The justification just falls really short.
As for Aurora, I always interpreted that as the Little Folk having gotten the drop on her (with something like Epic Stealth...a thing they can do easily, and Harry being very distracting) and hitting her simultaneously with a dozen or more attacks at Weapon 1 while her Defense was at Mediocre. That's an average of what, a dozen 2 stress hits that ignore her Toughness powers? That'll kill almost anything.
Billy has Inhuman Strength. Plus his Aspects are suitable to displays of strength. He's definitely stronger than the Merlin.
But the Merlin is very strong-willed and experienced. And that alone can get you pretty far. So he might well just be Fair at wrestling/lifting.
Bear in mind that Fair means exactly that. It's not exactly impressive.
And if you don't believe grace helps you drive, you should probably drive sometime.
People with Powers don't get skills for free, but as a general rule they should take skills that fit their Powers. It'd be hard to justify Mythic Speed and Mediocre Fists, for instance. You could probably do it with pacifism or total incompetence, but as a general rule skills and Powers are correlated.
Like I said, you can justify it mechanics-wise.
But it was nonetheless really lame. She got completely owned by rather weak opponents. And not because of some epic plan, it just sort of happened.
It kinda is, actually. It lets you lift, say, 200 lb people without difficulty...that's not unimpressive, and not something I see the Merlin as capable of casually.
Reaction time matters more and yet Inhuman Speed gives no driving bonus...
Some skills, sure...but not ones requiring actual training. At least, IMO. Not every high Speed character has Guns or Driving, for example.
I disagree, Harry just kept throwing things at her till something worked. That seems valid and fun to me.
Actually the table represents what a character can lift with all of their effort. Not without difficulty or casually.
And I don't find that at all impressive. There's a chance that I might even be able to do that, and I don't think of myself as strong.
It's not that you absolutely have to have the skills together with the Powers. It's just that they'll tend to go together. Someone really fast will more often than not have at least some ability to dance/fight/drive.
Not gonna argue over it any further, since it's been way too long since I read that book for any proper discussion. But I remember thinking "wow, that's a letdown" when I read that bit.
Keep in mind that each level represents what a character can lift by expending all of his effort
Right...but are you physically in your 60s? The Merlin is.
Determination can also be a general quality that helps one succeed at all of one's endeavours without you taking any special time to summon it up. So you can justify Fair Might on the Merlin or Ancient Mai, even if you don't want to fudge things with Compels.
As I said before, the Powers look workable but they're probably too good at higher power levels. Which is why I was suggesting handing them out free, to remove the balance issue.
I'm not sure about the idea of letting people exclude skills from this Power. It seems exploitable.
There's an element of truth there...but, IMO, not enough of one to make that the default. I dislike it for the same reason I dislike D&D 4E's general skill bumps per level...it results in a number of things that simply don't fit aesthetically or thematically.
I dunno, much as I trumpeted the advantages of this over True Shapeshifting (and there definitely are some)...it seems like that's a much more abusable/powerful ability in almost every way...
Epic: Discipline,
Fantastic: Conviction, Lore
Superb: Contacts, Presence,
Great: Deceit, Intimidation, Resources
Good: Alertness, Empathy, Rapport, Scholarship,
Fair: Craftsmanship, Burglary, Investigation, Stealth,
Average: Athletics, Endurance, Weapons, Survival
Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Earth, Spirit);
Power (Air +6, Earth +1, Spirit +4, Fire+2)
Control (Air+5, Earth +1, Spirit +3, Fire+1)
Thaumaturgy:
Control (Summoning and Binding +1, Conjuration +1, Divination +1, Veils +2, Wards +3, Transformation and Disruption +1, Transportation and Worldwalking +2);
Complexity (Summoning and Binding +3, Conjuration +3, Divination+4, Veils +5, Wards +6, Transformation and Disruption +2, Transportation and Worldwalking +4);
Epic: Discipline, Conviction, Lore
Fantastic: Contacts, Presence, Deceit
Superb: Intimidation, Resources, Scholarship
Great: Alertness, Empathy, Rapport
Good: Endurance, Craftsmanship, Investigation
Fair: The rest
Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Earth, Spirit);
Power (Air +5, Spirit +3, Fire+2)
Control (Air+6, Earth +1, Spirit +4, Fire+1)
Thaumaturgy:
Control (Summoning and Binding +1, Conjuration +1, Divination +1, Veils +2, Wards +3, Transformation and Disruption +1, Transportation and Worldwalking +2);
Complexity (Summoning and Binding +2, Conjuration +2, Divination+3, Veils +4, Wards +5, Transformation and Disruption +1, Transportation and Worldwalking +3);
I'm not advocating this because I think it's thematic. I'm advocating it because optimization-wise, Experience is basically mandatory for the Merlin. And I don't want to give some non-skilled player the chance to handicap their character by not knowing that.
Fortunately, I can justify this thematically. The difference between Mediocre and Fair is small enough to be subsumed into a character's general awesomeness.
Nah, there are some definite advantages to Experience. I'm not saying Experience is clearly better, but look at what it can do for the Merlin.
Here are your skills and specializations for the Merlin:
And here are the skills and specializations the Merlin could have if he swapped 4 Refinements for Supernatural Experience:
By my count, the two Merlins have the exact same Refresh cost. But the second Merlin is strictly superior. There is nothing that he is worse at, and a lot that he is better at.
And so, not taking Experience is a sucker's choice.
PS: There are 25 skills. In theory one could make more, but few people seem inclined to bother.
PPS: Would Experience raise one's competency at things that no canon skill covers, but which a theoretical new skill might? (I'm thinking of playing chess, here.)
NPCs aren't necessarily optimized. That's okay, as they also aren't built with strict point totals. Trying to justify what powers an NPC has in optimization terms is, IMO, an actively bad idea as it makes for poor choices in terms of what the NPC can and should be able to do.
There are, it's true. But True Shapeshifting would do all that and more (okay, it only allows two skills at Epic...but it allows him to also use Epic Athletics or Might whenever he likes, too). It'd certainly be better than his current stuff mechanically. I'll go into why I didn't give it to him below.
I can make a vastly more optimized Merlin in my sleep without changing a single Refresh. His skills are, from an optimization perspective poorly organized. Of course rearranging them makes him more powerful.
I strongly disagree actually. It's good, but the fact that you rearranged his skills has a lot more to do with him getting more powerful there than the use of an Experience power. I can make a vastly more powerful version by just making him Epic in Conviction and Lore, Fantastic in Discipline (doable with the 65 skill points he has base sans the Experience rather easily) and dropping a very few low level skills (Stealth and Weapons, for example), then using those 4 Refinements to up his Focus/Enchanted Items.
Eh, I see where you're coming from.
However, the same issue applies to essentially all really powerful characters.
Nope!
Capping all three casting skills is massive. Epic Lore is strictly superior to Fantastic Lore with 3 Refinements spent getting +1 complexity to six fields of magic. And the Merlin has Complexity bonuses in seven fields of magic.
It's okay to be un-optimized. It's not okay for there to be absolute power disparities.
By re-arranging the Merlin's skills, you could make him stronger. But I'd be able to say "he's worse at Stealth" or some such thing.
With the changes I made to the Merlin, you cannot say anything like that.
This is bad.
I didn't really re-arrange his skills. I just raised them. With the exception of Endurance, no skill on my Merlin is higher than a skill it was not higher than on your Merlin.
Oh, and your proposed Merlin would still be strictly inferior to a Merlin with Experience. Grab Supernatural Experience, make Discipline Epic, drop 4 points of control bonuses. Nothing lost, plenty gained.
This isn't really an argument. This is math.
Strict mathematical imbalances are not acceptable for PCs. And you've been using the Merlin as a PC-stand-in here, so I'm doing the same.
PCs are built differently. Hell, in many ways this is explicitly a PC only power...NPCs don't have skill caps so you don't need to throw it on them, just say all their skills are at X rating. Build two PCs that do the same thing...say, combat, or magic, or scholarly inquiry, one with the power and one without and compare them and you get good info...worrying about giving the power to a particular NPC is well-nigh meaningless.
True...but you can do that without buying the Power in question.
Try this on Luccio, for example, and you instead get a much less effective character, not more (her skills get better, but her important skills are already maxed, and she needs that 4 Refinement).
Fantastic: Conviction, Discipline, Lore, Weapons
Superb: Athletics, Endurance, Fists, Presence,
Great: Alertness, Contacts, Intimidation, Rapport
Good: Deceit, Empathy, Investigation, Scholarship,
Fair: The rest
Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Spirit);
Power (Spirit +1, Fire+3)
Control (Spirit +2, Fire+4)
Thaumaturgy:
Crafting (Strength+1, Frequency+1)
Or try it on a non-Wizard (Wizards get a lot more use out of maxing their top three skills than other people).
No...I really haven't. I've been using him as a really powerful NPC who I think the power in question is thematically inappropriate for. That's...kind of the opposite of using him as a PC example, actually.
Did I miss something, I thought that NPC`s still had to follow the skill pyramid... which would make this a great power for NPC characters since like you said they don't have a cap, so if you are making a big bad who has been around forever and has mythic experience then his lowest skill is +3 instead of +0
No. You cannot.
Try it, it's impossible. No canonical power level allows you to cap three skills. Nor does any power level I've written. Nor does the one you're using for the Merlin. Nor does any homebrew one I've seen played.
Luccio has 60 skill points. So it's pretty safe to assume her cap is Fantastic. No PC is gonna make it to 60 skill points without raising the cap to Fantastic.
Which means I can give her this:
Improving everything and reducing nothing. She seems to be worse at Crafting frequency, but actually she can pay for that with her +1 Crafting strength since strength is always better than frequency.
Name: Anastasia Luccio
Skills:
Fantastic: Discipline, Lore,
Superb: Conviction, Weapons
Great: Athletics, Fists, Presence,
Good: Alertness, Contacts, Endurance, Intimidation,
Fair: Rapport, Deceit, Empathy, Investigation,
Average: Burglary, Resources, Scholarship, Stealth, Survival, 1 more
Powers:
Evocation: Elements (Air, Fire, Spirit);
Power (Air+1, Spirit +3, Fire+5)
Control (Spirit +2, Fire+4)
Thaumaturgy:
Complexity (Wards +1); Crafting (Strength+1, Frequency +1)
Focus Items:
Sword (+2 Defensive Power and +2 Defensive Control for Fire)
Staff (+2 Offensive Power and +2 Offensive Control for Fire)
Easy enough. The power increase won't be as absolute, but it'll be there. Who do you want me to try it on?
I said it'd be a good idea to give these Powers free to characters above Submerged. You responded by saying that'd throw off characters like Lily and the Merlin. That's clearly using him as a PC example, because if he's not a PC he's not even remotely relevant to the conversation.
I mean, if the Merlin doesn't represent a PC then why should the PC-making rules be designed to accommodate him?
Skills:
Fantastic: Athletics, Deceit, Guns, Weapons,
Superb: Discipline, Investigation, Presence, Resources
Great: Alertness, Conviction, Endurance, Fists,
Good: Driving, Intimidation, Lore, Rapport,
Fair: Everything else
Stunts:
Takes One to Know One (Deceit) (-1)
Target Rich Environment (As the Guns Stunt) (Weapons) (-1)
Wall of Death (Weapons) (-1)
Powers:
Emotional Vampire [–1]
Human Guise [+0]
Incite Emotion (Lust; At Range, Lasting Emotion) [–3]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Supernatural Experience [-4]
Feeding Dependency [+1] affecting the following powers:
Supernatural Strength [–2]
Inhuman Speed [–2]
Supernatural Recovery [–4]
The Catch [+0] is True Love.
Total: -22 Refresh
Yea but at feet in the water level they only have 6 refresh to spend. This power at inhuman costs them half of that and supernatural takes all of it.
Oh I thought you guys changed it to a 3/6/9 model
Cool. Let us know how it goes.
So, how does the current version work with Milestones? I assume it eats one skill point in 4 past 40, but how do you to determine which points get eaten?