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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Mr. Death on January 11, 2013, 04:54:05 PM
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So I've been hearing from some of my players that thaumaturgy is still confusing, even after as long as I've played. I'm looking for better ways to explain it in ways that will make sense and will be easy to remember. Anyone else run into this problem?
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I would take a look at Rick Neal's blog. It did an amazing job at explaining the magic system: http://www.rickneal.ca/?page_id=842
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I'll pass those on to my players, but I'm also looking for a quicker and simpler way to explain it than having them read several in-depth blog posts.
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I'll pass those on to my players, but I'm also looking for a quicker and simpler way to explain it than having them read several in-depth blog posts.
I'm a new DFRPG GM myself, but the one specifically about Thaumaturgy, this one http://www.rickneal.ca/?p=632#1thaum seems useful :)
Its not terribly short, but honestly... Thaumaturgy is kindof confusing and very broad if you try and be short from what I am understanding.
What is it? Magic.
What can it do? Anything.
How do I do it? You tell me.
Thats Thaumaturgy.
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Like Crispy XIV says, it's really just this (http://www.rickneal.ca/?p=632) one. Well, and maybe this (http://www.rickneal.ca/?p=639) one, but the second's just a list of examples.
Also, bear in mind that most players don't actually need to understand Thaumaturgy. Really, most characters don't in-setting. You only really need to get it if GMing or playing someone who actually has it.
And, at it's simplest level, CrispyXIV is right on what it is, too. The heart is simple, it's the details that get complex.
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I would take a look at Rick Neal's blog. It did an amazing job at explaining the magic system: http://www.rickneal.ca/?page_id=842
Seconded.
Oh, and welcome back :)
Where exactly are they having problems? The thing is, that thaumaturgy can virtually do anything, so if it's only a small part of it that causes problems, it might be a good thing to locate that first.
I've started out with thaumaturgy by telling the players that they should not try to tell me "I want to do a 14 shift conjuration spell", but by telling me what their character is doing, what the spell is supposed to do in the story ("I want to make plants grow through the stairwell and capture any vampire that runs through it."). If you pin them down on that, you can figure out the math yourself, and maybe tell them "you don't feel comfortable that the spell will work like that", and get them to come up with another aspect or two. Or dismiss the spell entirely, if it is something that would not fit the character or would be too complicated for him.
Over time, your players will get a feeling for the scope of thaumaturgy spells, and by then, they will have the narrative part down as well, so it will interact pretty well.
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Where exactly are they having problems? The thing is, that thaumaturgy can virtually do anything, so if it's only a small part of it that causes problems, it might be a good thing to locate that first.
A lot of the problem, I think, is them not remembering how it works each time it comes up. When it comes time to do a Thaumaturgy spell, I keep having to explain to them the relationship between their Lore and the Complexity and what and how much needs to be done to build up the spell; then how to go about the actual casting and how their Conviction scores relate to that bit. They're fairly clear by this point that involves rolling Discipline, but I've found trouble getting the idea of what the rest of it means to stick with them.
It's the mechanics that trip them up, mostly. They've got a fair grasp of the kinds of things it can do in the fluff--lasting veils and divinations they've got the hang of on account of them being fairly low powered spells they can cast more or less like Evocation, and they have a good idea of where the line is for 'no, you can't do this with evocation, so it has to be a ritual of some kind.'
So they know roughly what they can do with it, it's just the mechanical how that keeps tripping them up.
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maybe this can help:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByQRmCOR1RgFdTRKalJFVmVBVHM/edit
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It well might. Thanks, I'll run it by my players.
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Seconded.
Oh, and welcome back :)
Thank you Haru! Is the game still going on?
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Phase 1: what do you want the spell to do so I can tell you the complexity.
Phase 2: complexity -lore = difference. Make declairations until you meet the difference.
Phase 3: describe it like a multi-part evocation. Decide power, roll dicipline, add to the power total, repeat until you meet the complexity.
I feel this is a decent way to express it. You relate it to other easier to grasp mechanics like declairations and evocation magic.
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So they know roughly what they can do with it, it's just the mechanical how that keeps tripping them up.
Here's my short version 'cheat sheet' for Thaumaturgy: - Determine the desired spell effect.
- Determine complexity in shifts.
- If complexity <= Lore, you have everything needed, go to drawing power.
- If complexity > Lore, enter Preparation stage.
- Prepare ritual.
- Invoke aspects – gain two shifts per aspect.
- Make declarations – each successful declaration gives you a temporary aspect to tag and two shifts of power when you do so.
- Accept or inflict consequences – gain the value of the consequence in shifts.
- Skip a scene – gain one shift per scene skipped.
- Draw power – roll Discipline to control power drawn each round. The spell is cast when you meet the number of shifts required by the spell's complexity.
Here's the longer version:- Determine Spell Effect
- Solve improbable or impossible problems
- Create a lasting change
- Provide inaccessible knowledge
- Interact with the supernatural
- Shape supernatural energy into physical forms
- Evaluating Complexity
- Action types
- Solve improbable or impossible problems – simple action.
- Create lasting changes:
- Temporary – a maneuver.
- Permanent – winning a conflict.
- Provide inaccessible knowledge – assessment.
- Allow interaction with the supernatural – contest of wills.
- Shape magical energies into physical forms – attack / block plus duration.
- Simple actions – solvable by mundane skill rolls given time and resources. Includes Assessments, Declarations, unopposed Maneuvers, and other skill usages.
- Complexity is equal to the successes required to do this through mundane means.
- Opposed Maneuvers
- Must beat defender's skill.
- Must get through any Thresholds, Wards, or other protections.
- May chain multiple aspects – paying for each of the above separately.
- Add shifts for persistence / duration.
- Contests and Conflicts
- As Opposed Maneuvers plus:
- Must have enough shifts to account for Stress and Consequences.
- Death or permanent transformation must take the target out – overflowing their entire stress track and all consequences.
- Duration
- Each additional shift moves duration up one level on the chart (OW 315).
- Thaumaturgy usually starts at 15 minutes (approximately one scene) or 'until sunrise' depending on target.
- Opposed spells (living target) start at 15 minutes.
- Unopposed spells (object or area target) start at 'until sunrise'.
- Preparation
- Creating a spell construct
- Ritual
- Research the Ritual
- Casting space / area
- Components – chanting, ritual movements, inscriptions, etc.
- Physical implements – athame, other tools, ingredients, etc.
- Example Symbolic Links
- True names
- Scale models
- A piece of the whole
- Power Sources (optional) – OW 248.
- Adjudicating preparation
- Invoke aspects
- Make declarations
- Accept or inflict consequences
- Skip scenes
- Drawing Power
- Decide how fast to draw power
- Take mental stress equal to the amount you draw over Conviction
- No stress if drawing power below Conviction
- Roll Discipline vs the amount of power drawn each exchange
- On a failure, all shifts of stored power prior to and including the failed exchange, become fallout and / or backlash.
- On a success, the amount of power drawn in the exchange is added to stored power.
- Once stored power matches or exceeds the number of shifts needed for the spell, it is successfully cast.
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Some good stuff here.
You know, we could do with a Resource thread for cheat-sheets and stuff.
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This all should help a lot. Thanks, guys.