ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tirs on January 09, 2013, 07:46:50 AM

Title: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on January 09, 2013, 07:46:50 AM
 Hi!
What do you think, is it possible (and correct) to use characters and beings of another setting in DF-verse?
 Becouse I wont "digitize" werewolves fron Mercyverse, but I'm afraid they would be strong too much for Dresden files.
I can describe them, if someone need.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Vargo Teras on January 09, 2013, 11:42:40 AM
The Dresdenverse includes a lot of options for various things; the important bit is that, if you're going to use them in the Dresdenverse, they need to fit in properly. So a type of werewolf which spreads itself by a cursed bite, and possesses great strength and recuperative powers in human form as well as its wolf-like form, is perfectly fine; having that type of werewolf possess a globe-spanning society which has somehow not signed the Unseelie Accords or gotten involved in the politics of any of the other globe-spanning societies is probably not going to fly well with players unless you get their buy-in first.

I would, however, counsel against ever using novel protagonists, or even major supporting characters, as characters in an RPG. Yes, that means I don't think that Harry Dresden should appear in any DFRPG games, let alone Mercy Thompson; what works for a character in a book, with their many unique exceptions and strokes of narrative-demanded luck, becomes incredibly problematic in a game where the players want to be the protagonists.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Magicpockets on January 09, 2013, 01:37:41 PM
Statting Mercy should be relatively easy, with the hardest part being "controlling ghosts":
Ghost Speaker [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
The Catch [+3] is that it only works vs magic
Beast Change [-1]
Human Form [+1], affecting:
Claws [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]

This is a barebone build at -7, judging by the wikipedia article on Mercy Thompson. I haven't actually read any of the books, so if Pack Instincts or Inhuman Strength seem appropriate, feel free to add them in.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 09, 2013, 01:44:50 PM
Possible? Sure. Correct? Depends on your definitions. You obviously need to decide how the (very different) metaphysics and world-rules interact. It's certainly not canon, but not everyone cares about that.

And Mercyverse Werewolves are hardly overpowering. They're built about like this:

Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Pack Instincts [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
The Catch is silver [+4] (The supernatural is public in the Mercyverse, and silver bullets are both universally known and stocked in every gun store...in the Dresdenverse, this probably drops to +3)

Feeding Restriction (Meat) [+1] effecting all of;
Beast Change [-1]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
Human Form [+2] effecting only; (Mercyverse werewolves take several minutes to shift and are well-nigh helpless when doing so...it's not usually an option in the middle of combat)
Claws [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-2] (This is special: It's basically the act of shapeshifting that heals them...the distinction is mostly meaningless, but might be compelled to have them not use this power during combat or some such, and certainly means they need to be conscious to utilize it)

That's only -8 Refresh (-9 if the supernatural is secret). Now, being a real alpha or something might well include other powers...but they're hardly starting characters.

The Dresdenverse includes a lot of options for various things; the important bit is that, if you're going to use them in the Dresdenverse, they need to fit in properly. So a type of werewolf which spreads itself by a cursed bite, and possesses great strength and recuperative powers in human form as well as its wolf-like form, is perfectly fine; having that type of werewolf possess a globe-spanning society which has somehow not signed the Unseelie Accords or gotten involved in the politics of any of the other globe-spanning societies is probably not going to fly well with players unless you get their buy-in first.

Yeah, this I agree with completely. If you insert werewolves ala the Mercyverse into the Dresdenverse you need to seriously consider how they fit in with the setting. The Marrok's almost certainly gonna be a signatory of the Unseelie Accords, for example.

I would, however, counsel against ever using novel protagonists, or even major supporting characters, as characters in an RPG. Yes, that means I don't think that Harry Dresden should appear in any DFRPG games, let alone Mercy Thompson; what works for a character in a book, with their many unique exceptions and strokes of narrative-demanded luck, becomes incredibly problematic in a game where the players want to be the protagonists.

This on the other hand, I disagree with. Compels and Invocations of Aspects tend to model this kind of narrative interaction perfectly, making Fate one of the better games to do this with. You obviously need to keep it to cameos or give the PCs some reason not to go running to them for help (or them some reason not to help) so that the PCs remain the stars of the show...but that hardly makes their presence impossible or anything...just something you need to be very careful with.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 09, 2013, 01:51:38 PM
Statting Mercy should be relatively easy, with the hardest part being "controlling ghosts":
Ghost Speaker [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
The Catch [+3] is that it only works vs magic
Beast Change [-1]
Human Form [+1], affecting:
Claws [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]

Not bad for someone who's never read the books, but her magic resistance is to mental and emotional controls, and rather definitively not to physical stuff (fireballs would kill her easily) and her Inhuman Speed stays in human form. She very much lacks Inhuman Strength...and develops Pack Instincts only late in the series. A more accurate build might be:

Ghost Speaker [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Beast Change [-1]

Human Form [+1], affecting:
Claws [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]

Plus what probably amounts to a -1 power granting +2 to resist mental or emotional influences (+4 vs. vampires) or something like that and a massive Discipline score.

And, as the series progresses, Item of Power, Ritual (Ectomancy), and that Pack Instincts I mentioned.

But all this is slightly off-topic since he wanted Mercyverse werewolves, which she rather definitively isn't.  :)
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on January 09, 2013, 04:55:39 PM
In our games, we've included Dream the Endless from Neil Gaiman's Sandman, various and extensive amounts of Greek mythological beings and creatures, and elements of the Libromancer book.  I've thrown in bits of the Hellboy mythos whenever the players start considering the Outer Gates too.  Oh, and Gargoyles.

Granted, at this point our game is stretching itself to be called Dresdenverse.  It has several elements of it, and that is the largest contributor to the setting, but Rule of Cool and Interesting Story trumps it every time.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Theonlyspiral on January 09, 2013, 05:53:20 PM
I freely steal from the TV series, the Slender-Verse and Greek Mythology and it's only the first adventure. I would say that that rule of cool trumps all in RPGs.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on January 09, 2013, 08:50:45 PM
 Thank's a lot :)
Quote
And Mercyverse Werewolves are hardly overpowering.
I think, I understand you - Mercy-werewolves have no any serious weakness. But... this is their feature. I mean, only few can be mages, and they doesn't have nevernever powers (like  fairy does). They are strong and fast (a think they have inhuman/supernatural (it depends on the age and experience) Strength, Speed, Toughness even in human form but... that's all what they has). Make no mistake, the sun, the day, and the ability to enter into other people's homes and on holy ground - coupled with their strength - are the only thing that will allow them to protect themselves.
Hm...If Billy and his friends were the werewolves as these, they would be able to stand up for themselves? Without the help of Harry.
Quote
The Marrok's almost certainly gonna be a signatory of the Unseelie Accords, for example.
Of course. And that's good, that youremember him. Can someone of experienced players describe his features?
I mean... OK, he is at least 1500+ years old. He knew King Arthur. He was a Knight of the Round Table. He was the prototype of the Grendel from the legend of Beowulf. The Vikings have named their most ferocious warriors in his honor. Gray Lords (lords of the fairies), and even vampires (Do you understand - vampires!) ... dislike to aggravate relations with him.
How strong he must be?
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 09, 2013, 09:40:37 PM
Thank's a lot :)

No problem, happy to be of assistance.  :)

I think, I understand you - Mercy-werewolves have no any serious weakness. But... this is their feature. I mean, only few can be mages, and they doesn't have nevernever powers (like  fairy does). They are strong and fast (a think they have inhuman/supernatural (it depends on the age and experience) Strength, Speed, Toughness even in human form but... that's all what they has). Make no mistake, the sun, the day, and the ability to enter into other people's homes and on holy ground - coupled with their strength - are the only thing that will allow them to protect themselves. Hm...If Billy and his friends were the werewolves as these, they would be able to stand up for themselves? Without the help of Harry.

They really do pretty well without Harry anyway. The inhuman toughness would be handy...but their ability to shapeshift on the fly is, too. Really, only the immortality would be a major step up...though maintaining superhuman physical prowess in human form would let them be a bit subtler if they wanted.

Of course. And that's good, that youremember him. Can someone of experienced players describe his features?
I mean... OK, he is at least 1500+ years old. He knew King Arthur. He was a Knight of the Round Table. He was the prototype of the Grendel from the legend of Beowulf. The Vikings have named their most ferocious warriors in his honor. Gray Lords (lords of the fairies), and even vampires (Do you understand - vampires!) ... dislike to aggravate relations with him.
How strong he must be?

Bran is...excessively hardcore. If you want a sheet...that's hard given the amount we've seen of his powers (relatively little) but I'd be inclined to peg him at something like this:

Name: Bran Cornick

Aspects:
High Concept: The Marrok
Trouble: So Many Responsibilities
Other:
Buried Black Rage
Ancient Bard
Knight of the Round Table
Appears Utterly Harmless
Protects What Is His

Skills:

Human Form:
Fantastic: Discipline, Fists, Performance,
Superb: Athletics, Contacts, Conviction, Lore, Presence,
Great: Alertness, Empathy, Intimidation, Rapport, Resources,
Good: Everything else. Yes, really.

Human Form:
Fantastic: Alertness, Athletics, Fists,
Superb: Conviction, Discipline, Endurance, Lore, Presence,
Great: Empathy, Intimidation, Might, Rapport, Stealth,
Good: Everything else. Yes, really.

Stunts:

Calm Blue Ocean (Discipline) (-1)
Unshakable (Discipline) (-1)
Counselor (Empathy) (-1)
Armed Arts: Sword, Knife (Fists) (-1)
Poet (Performance) (-1)
Leadership (Presence) (-1)
Linguist (Scholarship) (-2)

Stunts:

Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Pack Instincts [-1]
Predatory Knack [-1] (+1 to Fists for all purposes)
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Speed [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is silver [+3 or +4]
Supernatural Sense - Various, pack based, include lie detection [-3]
Mind-Speaking [-1] (Expansion of his Pack Instincts, allows him to communicate any message to anyone else part of his pack, or part of their packs, anywhere, psychically. Can't necessarily get responses.)

Feeding Restriction (Meat) [+1] effecting all of;
Beast Change [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-2]
Human Form [+2] effecting only;
Claws [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Mythic Recovery [-2]

Total: -27 or -28 Refresh (Note: He still totally has free will, too. Scary guy.)

Stress:

Mental: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Physical: OOOO (OOOO) (+1 Mild Consequence in wolf form)
Social: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Armor: 2.

He's really pretty unreasonably powerful. Possibly throw on some Incite Emotion depending on to what degree you think that Alpha ability is compels and Aspects and what you think needs additional mechanics. He might also have any or all of the physical stuff at Mythic...we just haven't seen any evidence of that.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on January 10, 2013, 04:25:45 AM
O, thank you. It's a great analys and sheet!
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Locnil on January 10, 2013, 05:40:00 AM
Marrok's Empathy should be higher. It's the one trait of his that has been commented upon the most often, IIRC. Of course, it could just be a stunt.

Also, Mercy can control ghosts?  :o

Oh, right, and Mercy's selective magic immunity could be represented as Supernatural Stoicism, with a Catch of only against magical mind/emotion control.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 10, 2013, 09:59:06 AM
O, thank you. It's a great analys and sheet!

No problem, happy to be of assistance.  :)

Based on your sig, would you like my writeup of True Blood Vampires? I did it years ago, but I've got it around here somewhere, so it wouldn't be any trouble.

Marrok's Empathy should be higher. It's the one trait of his that has been commented upon the most often, IIRC. Of course, it could just be a stunt.

True...but I've personally always thought they overstate it. He's missed some pretty serious issues in people in his own Pack a few times. Great Empathy's already pretty good, after all. Maybe toss on Counselor for the part he's really good at. In fact, that's an excellent idea and I'm editing it in.

You could also pretty easily swap it and, say, Performance if you don't think that's sufficient, though.

Also, Mercy can control ghosts?  :o

In theory. In later books. Yeah.

Oh, right, and Mercy's selective magic immunity could be represented as Supernatural Stoicism, with a Catch of only against magical mind/emotion control.

Another valid way to do it if you use that power (I tend not to).
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Locnil on January 10, 2013, 10:21:02 AM
If you don't like Stoicism, how about a stunt giving two extra milds for resisting mind control?
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 10, 2013, 10:31:07 AM
If you don't like Stoicism, how about a stunt giving two extra milds for resisting mind control?

I honestly prefer the option I suggested above (giving her an amped up version of the Hard Boiled Stunt and a huge Discipline score). Epic or Legendary skill at resisting seems like it fits her better than taking consequences.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on January 10, 2013, 10:47:44 AM
Quote
Based on your sig, would you like my writeup of True Blood Vampires? I did it years ago, but I've got it around here somewhere, so it wouldn't be any trouble.
It'll be fine :)
But, back to the MT-werewolves - What about the dominant? It is ability, which allows more powerful werewolves command weaker packmates, and allows every werewolves command human. This is not hypnosis, rather like a very strong intimidation and persuasion.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 10, 2013, 10:54:30 AM
It'll be fine :)

Does that mean you want 'em, or not? I'm confused.  ???

But, back to the MT-werewolves - What about the dominant? It is ability, which allows more powerful werewolves command weaker packmates, and allows every werewolves command human. This is not hypnosis, rather like a very strong intimidation and persuasion.

Being dominant isn't a supernatural ability per se. Especially not as applied to humans (where it's mostly just applied body language and force of personality). I'd personally handle it mostly by comparative Presence scores, dominant werewolves getting that as part of their High Concept, which they can invoke when appropriate, and compels on less dominant werewolves to obey their superiors (and on dominant werewolves to protect their lessers). A few particularly powerful alphas might get Incite Emotion (Obedience/Submission) with various extras, but not every werewolf who's got a dominant streak needs that.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on January 10, 2013, 11:15:00 AM
Quote
Does that mean you want 'em, or not?
Yes, of course, I want. I mean, I will be glad to read it.
Quote
Being dominant isn't a supernatural ability per se.
Let me disagree. Just remember 1st book. Warren's boyfriend told Mercy about five drunken toughs, who try to harass them. Five. Versus two guys (and gays!). And Warren dispersed them without raising his voice. Those bullies can't be   scared in such a situation without supernatural influence. It is psychologically impossible.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 10, 2013, 11:27:01 AM
Yes, of course, I wont. I mean, I will be glad to read it.

Cool. Here's that, then:

Addictive Blood [+0]
Blood Drinker [-1]
Echoes of the Beast (Extra Trapping: Can identify things by blood-smell with Alertness) [-1]
Incite Emotion (Obedience, Lasting Emotion, Requires direct eye contact instead of touch) [-2]

Human Form [+2], completely helpless during the day, lose powers as long as they are touched by silver, applying to everything except
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
The Catch is Sunlight, Silver, and Stakes Through the Heart [+4]

Feeding Dependency (Blood) [+1] effecting;
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]

Total: -7 Refresh.

Elders may gain other enhancements on any powers already listed, shapeshiftng of various sorts, or Wings with Human Guise to represent flight. Most of the vampires we see are old enough to have the Supernatural level in at least one physical area. Again, the Catch is so high because vampires are public, in the Dresdenverse it would likely drop to +3 upping them to -8 Refresh.

Let me disagree. Just remember 1st book. Warren's boyfriend told Mercy about five drunken toughs, who try to harass them. Five. Versus two guys (and gays!). And Warren dispersed them without raising his voice. Those bullies can't be   scared in such a situation without supernatural influence. It is psychologically impossible.

Uh...I know people personally who have done that. Not many, and not quite the way Warren did, but it's very possible to intimidate people like that in that situation. Especially bullies who, all cliches aside, often really are cowardly, or at least looking for people who will back down before them.

In game terms, he has a high Intimidate score backed up by complete confidence, and maybe invoking his High Concept. No need for superpowers.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on January 11, 2013, 12:28:06 PM
I find one mistake.
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Pack Instincts [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
The Catch is silver [+4] (The supernatural is public in the Mercyverse, and silver bullets are both universally known and stocked in every gun store...in the Dresdenverse, this probably drops to +3)

Feeding Restriction (Meat) [+1] effecting all of;
Beast Change [-1]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
Human Form [+2] effecting only; (Mercyverse werewolves take several minutes to shift and are well-nigh helpless when doing so...it's not usually an option in the middle of combat)
Claws [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Supernatural Recovery [-2] (This is special: It's basically the act of shapeshifting that heals them...the distinction is mostly meaningless, but might be compelled to have them not use this power during combat or some such, and certainly means they need to be conscious to utilize it)

That's only -8 Refresh (-9 if the supernatural is secret). Now, being a real alpha or something might well include other powers...but they're hardly starting characters.

Yeah, this I agree with completely. If you insert werewolves ala the Mercyverse into the Dresdenverse you need to seriously consider how they fit in with the setting. The Marrok's almost certainly gonna be a signatory of the Unseelie Accords, for example.

This on the other hand, I disagree with. Compels and Invocations of Aspects tend to model this kind of narrative interaction perfectly, making Fate one of the better games to do this with. You obviously need to keep it to cameos or give the PCs some reason not to go running to them for help (or them some reason not to help) so that the PCs remain the stars of the show...but that hardly makes their presence impossible or anything...just something you need to be very careful with.
As I remember, they can heal themselves in any form.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Deadmanwalking on January 11, 2013, 01:01:59 PM
I find one mistake. As I remember, they can heal themselves in any form.

They can! That's not what Human For [+2] does, not by default anyway, it means they lose their powers under certain circumstances not under their control...such as when touched by silver or when sleeping during the day. Check out the Lycanthrope template in YS for another example of the drawback being used this way.
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: Tirs on February 01, 2013, 09:23:07 AM
Hi again, and... I need help again :(
The fact that I decided to develop a community of werewolves for RPG Dresden Files. I took a setting Mercy Thompson took as the basis for this purpose, but it must be improved, becouse DF-fractions are more centralized and large. I modified the hierarchy and "bureaucracy", but 1 question arised.
  I can't find a "political" organization, Familys or Counsil. There are some ideas (inspired by the World of Darkness), but I'm not sure that it is suitable for games.
My suggestion is 3-4 "clans":
Some "Warriors". Strong and skilled fighters who stand up for the first of its kind from the threats of the physical world or Nevernever.
Some "Citizens". The most civilian werewolves who looking for power through the influence in human society.
Some "Traditionalists". Those who prefer to live in the open air or in the countryside, are strong in witchcraft and all sorts of clever guerrilla tactics.
  Of course, this is a very simplified model. But I can not think of a more interesting ideas for the tribes, which would work in the worldscale. I have an idea how enrich it, but I need a pattern for the original concept of "clans". Does anyone have any ideas?
Title: Re: Other-setting's creatures
Post by: lordoracle on February 02, 2013, 01:42:37 AM
To me, if it is not something already covered in Dresden, I see no problem.

A while back, I was toying with the Puck race from the Leandros Bros series by Rob Thurman, which have not been covered in the Dresden novels. Her take on them is there was an original, who was also the first Hobgoblin.
(click to show/hide)

I wanted to make a npc who was this style of Puck. Never finished it and it fell to the wayside.