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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Magizoologist on November 12, 2012, 08:03:59 AM
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Hi guys!
Basically, I have a character who uses 7 elements and unlocks them successively by unblocking her chakras. In-game, this basically amounts to buying Refinement a lot. (I know this is an unusual number and completely unnecessary; please don't get distracted by this.)
I have the elements arranged around a 7-pointed star and I treat them like the elements in Wu Xing: they have a constructive and a controlling cycle.
Now, my character is a tattoo artist with the star sort of built into the floor of the tattoo parlour, with representations of an element at each point (incense for fire, for example). I picture her sitting or standing on this star (when the shop is closed and/or prior to opening) and doing her thaumaturgic rituals.
What I'm having trouble with is coming up with the steps to her rituals.
Two things that really intrigued me were Tai Chi's elemental steps, and mudras, which are gestures you do to help you unblock chakras.
I keep finding references to the fact that Tai Chi uses some mudras, but can't find any information on which ones, which forms they're used in, etc. Everyone seems to know that they're involved somehow, but that's it.
Also, there aren't a whole lot of resources depicting pictures of people doing Tai Chi elemental forms. I keep finding resources on which direction you're supposed to step with each element, but not which forms to use.
Anybody here have greater Google-fu than me? I'd appreciate the help.
Also, other ideas on what to include in the rituals are welcome.
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Welcome!
Have you tried searching quigong elements or mudras as well as tai chi? May find a bit more.
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Huh, cool idea. Never thought of unlocking magical power with mystical poses before. Pretty good way to get physical skills involved in the Declaration process for a ritual.
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Welcome!
Have you tried searching quigong elements or mudras as well as tai chi? May find a bit more.
Will try that tonight when I get home, thanks. :)
Huh, cool idea. Never thought of unlocking magical power with mystical poses before. Pretty good way to get physical skills involved in the Declaration process for a ritual.
Well, I got to thinking about it when I was thinking about how deaf people back in the days before hearing aids wouldn't have been able to use their voice to cast spells. Sign language activates the same areas of the brain as spoken language.
So I'm guessing in the Dresdenverse deaf people would have used mudras or something similar to cast spells.
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Also in the anime Naruto, they use hand signs to represent different spells that they cast. Could look into that too.
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Huh, cool idea. Never thought of unlocking magical power with mystical poses before. Pretty good way to get physical skills involved in the Declaration process for a ritual.
I posited something like it awhile ago in THIS (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,7068.msg202984.html#msg202984) thread.
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Also in the anime Naruto, they use hand signs to represent different spells that they cast. Could look into that too.
Not to knock Naruto, but they didn't really try too hard to be authentic with that series. I mean, the main character is a ninja who goes around wearing emergency orange and a reflective headband. Plus jutsus are more or less super powers or magic spells in that series, and not tricky slight-of-hand ones you'd expect from a ninja. So I really gotta pass on that one. Thanks for trying, though. :)
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Plus jutsus are more or less super powers or magic spells in that series, and not tricky slight-of-hand ones you'd expect from a ninja. So I really gotta pass on that one. Thanks for trying, though. :)
....isnt that what you are going for??
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I think he's going for thaumaturgy type spells though.
Regardless, just because everything they do with mudras in Naruto isn't what you're shooting for it doesn't change the usefulness of the the mudras themselves. What the mudras do is just a flavor descriptor that can be changed.
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Exactly my point.
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I think he's going for thaumaturgy type spells though.
Regardless, just because everything they do with mudras in Naruto isn't what you're shooting for it doesn't change the usefulness of the the mudras themselves. What the mudras do is just a flavor descriptor that can be changed.
Well, I was kinda wanting to use actual mudras, that people really do.
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Do you mind if I ask why? Are you going to be doing them at the table?
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You don't normally see the phrase "mudra" used in Tai Chi. Mudra is a Sanskrit word used in Hinduism and Buddhism to denote a hand gesture with particular meanings that are intended to help bring about certain states of mind. So you'll definitely see them in yoga, which has roots in Hinduism. Tai Chi, on the other hand, has roots in Chinese Martial Arts and Taoism. The forms that I've learned in Tai Chi are not just hand gestures, but dynamic movements, instead of just static postures like in Yoga, that involve the whole body. So to use Yoga terminology they'd be mudras and asanas at the same time ... kinda.
Chinese medicine also doesn't really use the chakras. Instead it talks about the meridians, or channels of chi that run through the body.
As for the elements, I know medical chi gong talks about the wu hsing and the five elements, but the style of Tai Chi I take doesn't really delve into those very much.
Are you perhaps interested in the names of the different forms? They're very poetic, like "Parting the Wild Horse's Mane", "Grasping the Swallow's Tail", "Needle at the Bottom of the Ocean" etc.
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do you need like "DICE MECHANICS" help, or are you just looking for HOW she does it Story wise?
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Naruto makes a lot more sense if you mentally edit out the word "ninja". I like the manga, but...they aren't terribly ninja-like.
I posited something like it awhile ago in THIS (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,7068.msg202984.html#msg202984) thread.
I'm afraid I missed that on account of it being before my time.
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Do you mind if I ask why? Are you going to be doing them at the table?
I won't do them at the table, but it helps me get a good visual in my head, and being able to name specific poses helps in the creation of aspects. Plus I just like the idea of using authentic ones.
You don't normally see the phrase "mudra" used in Tai Chi. Mudra is a Sanskrit word used in Hinduism and Buddhism to denote a hand gesture with particular meanings that are intended to help bring about certain states of mind. So you'll definitely see them in yoga, which has roots in Hinduism. Tai Chi, on the other hand, has roots in Chinese Martial Arts and Taoism. The forms that I've learned in Tai Chi are not just hand gestures, but dynamic movements, instead of just static postures like in Yoga, that involve the whole body. So to use Yoga terminology they'd be mudras and asanas at the same time ... kinda.
Chinese medicine also doesn't really use the chakras. Instead it talks about the meridians, or channels of chi that run through the body.
As for the elements, I know medical chi gong talks about the wu hsing and the five elements, but the style of Tai Chi I take doesn't really delve into those very much.
Are you perhaps interested in the names of the different forms? They're very poetic, like "Parting the Wild Horse's Mane", "Grasping the Swallow's Tail", "Needle at the Bottom of the Ocean" etc.
Sure, do you have a resource for those?
I am mixing cultures a lot, I understand. My character is sort of New Age that way. I wanted to use sort of authentic parts, but I understand the end result won't be similar to anything in real-life.
do you need like "DICE MECHANICS" help, or are you just looking for HOW she does it Story wise?
Story. I like the idea of mystic poses and stuff to channel energy (think Avatar, I guess) but I feel like there should be another component.
I was thinking of maybe having her use mudras for evocation and moving forms for thaumaturgy, but I haven't really found the right spice to top it all off with yet.
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I won't do them at the table, but it helps me get a good visual in my head, and being able to name specific poses helps in the creation of aspects. Plus I just like the idea of using authentic ones.
Sure, do you have a resource for those?
I am mixing cultures a lot, I understand. My character is sort of New Age that way. I wanted to use sort of authentic parts, but I understand the end result won't be similar to anything in real-life.
Story. I like the idea of mystic poses and stuff to channel energy (think Avatar, I guess) but I feel like there should be another component.
I was thinking of maybe having her use mudras for evocation and moving forms for thaumaturgy, but I haven't really found the right spice to top it all off with yet.
Okay, if it's Story stuff, I can't help you at all, everything you are saying is completely foreign to me
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Okay, if it's Story stuff, I can't help you at all, everything you are saying is completely foreign to me
Oh well. Thanks for trying!
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Tai Chi (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tvFHDWyHeqY/TPpWF4Q335I/AAAAAAAAANE/hYJE9wg_0Sk/s1600/TaiChi24form.gif)
This issue with Mudra's in real life is that most of them are used in tantric breathing excercises while sitting down. If you wanted to still use them they are here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra#Yogic_mudr.C4.81s). But I feel like (even though its not as you wanted) the Naruto fiction provides good Mudras for evocation, and those are here (http://fullmangasite.e-monsite.com/pages/technique/les-mudras.html) if you wanted them.
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I won't do them at the table, but it helps me get a good visual in my head, and being able to name specific poses helps in the creation of aspects. Plus I just like the idea of using authentic ones.
How concerned are you with authenticity? Are you looking for a strong visual, or do you want the proper name attached to the technique? Or would someone suggesting youtube videos be more what you need?
I ask because Taiji doesn't really use five element theory. There are ideological correlations that have formed over time, but they're superfluous to the actual practice.
If you want, I can explain the Shísān shì (the core thirteen 'postures' of taiji) and point out which correlates with what trigram/element (this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_hands) is a useful overview, but lacks the trigram/elemental correlations) and how they're used to generate the 26 or so postures you commonly see in forms, but that's going to be a long, boring post without knowing exactly what you're looking for. Lavecki121 linked to a breakdown of the Beijing 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-form_tai_chi_chuan) form (this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvF6r6DOvc) is a complete run-through of the form).
You may also want to look into the Jiǔzì yìn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuji-in). It isn't taiji, but it is a Daoist practice that uses mudra, and that article has the hand positions as well as the corresponding mantra. However, mudra/mantra are outside my field of expertise, so that's all I'll say about them.
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How concerned are you with authenticity? Are you looking for a strong visual, or do you want the proper name attached to the technique? Or would someone suggesting youtube videos be more what you need?
I ask because Taiji doesn't really use five element theory. There are ideological correlations that have formed over time, but they're superfluous to the actual practice.
If you want, I can explain the Shísān shì (the core thirteen 'postures' of taiji) and point out which correlates with what trigram/element (this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_hands) is a useful overview, but lacks the trigram/elemental correlations) and how they're used to generate the 26 or so postures you commonly see in forms, but that's going to be a long, boring post without knowing exactly what you're looking for. Lavecki121 linked to a breakdown of the Beijing 24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-form_tai_chi_chuan) form (this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBvF6r6DOvc) is a complete run-through of the form).
You may also want to look into the Jiǔzì yìn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuji-in). It isn't taiji, but it is a Daoist practice that uses mudra, and that article has the hand positions as well as the corresponding mantra. However, mudra/mantra are outside my field of expertise, so that's all I'll say about them.
Sorry for the long delay. My mom just got diagnosed with cancer so I've been kinda busy.
I'm mostly looking for the proper name for the technique, but I'd like to be able to show the GM a video or diagram or something in case it's relevant to the story somehow.
I would like those forms if you don't mind, but I probably won't be able to come back to look into them for a while, so if you don't feel like it, I understand.
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I believe they are all on the links. Cant be sure though since I am not on my regular computer and thus cant follow them.
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The names are listed on the image supplied by Lavecki121. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZtpwmjMC7Q) is the same video I posted earlier, only with names placed before the movements.
The Shísān shì, as mentioned above, are the core thirteen movements of tàijíquán, and consist of the Eight Gates (bā mén) and the Five Directions (wǔ bù). The Eight Gates are:
- Péng (Ward off upward): The first movement of Grasping Sparrow's Tail. Péng jìn is moves and expands outward. Péng is a combination of awareness and adherence, so that when an attack comes in, the force is redirected and 'bounced' away. Correlates to Qián (three yang lines).
- Lǚ (Smooth, often translated as 'Roll Back'): Second movement of Grasping Sparrow's tail. Lǚ jìn receives and collects energy. A yielding movement, guiding incoming force downwards. Frequently used defensively, intercepting an attack and redirecting it down. Correlates to Kūn (three yin lines).
- Jǐ (Press): Third movement of Grasping Sparrow's Tail. Jǐ jìn is offensive, adhering to the opponent's energy by pressing forward. Dropping and rotating the elbows inwards creates the press. Frequently used as a short, powerful strike with a slight downward angle (though it could have an upward angle just as easily). Correlates to Kǎn (yin, yang, yin).
- Àn (Push): Fourth movement of Grasping Sparrow's Tail. Àn jìn is a downward push of the legs into the ground to generate forward power. A wave motion, receding back and high, dropping low, then presses forward and high, essentially striking at a rising angle through the target. Could also strike at a downward angle (much harder to do). Correlates with Lí (yang, yin, yang).
- Cǎi (Pluck): Seen in Cast the Needle to the Ocean Bottom. Cǎi jìn is grasping energy. Uses a catch and forward or backward body movement to control the opponent's wrist. Corresponds to Xùn (yang, yang, yin).
- Liè (Split): Seen in White Crane Spreads Its Wings. Liè jìn involves separating the opponent vertically, horizontally, or (most often) diagonally. This most often leads to a trap or a throw. Corresponds to Zhèn (yin, yin, yang).
- Zhǒu (Elbow): Seen in a lot of postures once you know what to look for. Zhǒu jìn is an elbow strike. Most often used as a secondary assault when the opponent intercepts a strike, continue forward while folding the elbow. Also involves using the elbows to trap, deflect and control with the elbows while striking with the hands or feet. Corresponds with Duì (yin, yang, yang).
- Kào (Shoulder): In every posture that Zhǒu is in for the same reasons. Kào jìn is used when the elbow strike is intercepted, continuing the forward movement to strike with the shoulder, hip, or back. It also covers using the power of the whole body instead of individual limbs. Corresponds with Gèn (yang, yin, yin).
The Five Directions are:
- Jìn bù (Advancing step): Direct movement towards the opponent. Used to close and command the distance. If the opponent retreats, advance to set them off balance. Correlates with Metal.
- Tùi bù (Retreating step): Movement directly away from the opponent. Used to draw the opponent in and overextend to create an opening. Correlates with Wood.
- Zǔo gù (Gaze left): Implying a movement to the right and then stepping left. One example is the preparatory movement in Part the Horse's Mane and Brush Knee Twist Step often referred to as Hold the Ball. Correlates with Water.
- Yòu pàn (Look right): Fakes a movement to the left and then moves right. Correlates with Fire.
- Zhōng dìng (Settled in): No movement. Correlates with Earth.
Every attack or defense uses one of the Five Steps and one or more of the Eight Gates. In theory, every offensive action should use all of the Gates, but in practice that's very tricky.