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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 02:11:24 PM

Title: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 02:11:24 PM
So I decided to make a Martial Arts guy and I wanted a supernatural power that derived from the Chinese Zodiac. I looked to Jackie Chan Adventures for some inspiration and this is what I have so far:
Rooster – Levitation/ Telekinesis
•   Wings

Ox – Strength/Durability
•   Inhuman Strength.
•   Inhuman Toughness

Snake – Invisibility
•   Glamours / Greater Glamours
•   Cloak of Shadows (only if took glamours)

Sheep – Astral Projection
•   Spirit Form
•   Gaseous Form

Rabbit – Super Speed
•   Supernatural Speed

Dragon – Combustion/Pyrokinesis
•   Breath Weapon
•   Some sort of Sponsored Magic (If not breath Weapon)

Rat – Animates Inanimate Objects
•   

Horse – Healing
•   Supernatural Recovery

Dog – Immortality
•   Wizards Constitution
•   Physical Immunity
•   +4 for a Catch

Pig – Laser Vision
•   Modified Breath Weapon
•   Some sort of Sponsored Magic also Possible

Monkey – Animal Shape Shifting
•   Beast Form (multiple beasts)
o   Aquatic
o   Claws
o   Diminutive
o   Hulking
o   Spider Walk
o   Supernatural Sense
o   Wings

Tiger – Balance/Split Personality
•   Split Personality
o   Homebrew Power
o   Every Time any of the powers are used there is a chance that this one will happen instead.
o   Person in split into two personas a “good” and a “bad”
o   The “good” one is the PC and the “bad” one becomes an NPC
o   Until they are reunited they have diminished powers and diminished skill set
o   Each also has their own Aspects relating to their new personality

There are a few that are underpowered (or in the case of rat, non existent). I am thinking that This will work like Modular Abilities, whereas it will take a standard action to shift between each. Since it is limited to these powers I had the buy cost at -1 instead of the normal -2 that Modular Abilities has. Also there are only 4 Modular Points for each power. I really would like to flesh this out a little more and appreciate the help
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 23, 2012, 02:48:36 PM
You might want to cap at 3 instead of 4. Being able to pick a supernatural, strength, toughness, Speed, essentially at will, may be too high to allow a cost of only 1 for the ability.

Giving glamours for invisibility, without limiting it in some way is giving the user far more than invisibility.

Pick either spirit of Gaeous form, based on which seems more appropriate(probably spirit, but I haven't read the entries or know the fiction off which the ability is based)

I would be very hesitant to offer sponsored magic in any form, even a very limited version.

Need to put a catch on the healing and toughness abilities.

For dog, I would go with living dead over either wizard con or Phys imm.

For monkey, it's tricky. Giving them a second set of modular abilities both requires a lot of tracking and also really stretches the reach of this power. It is also currently a 8 cost power as written. I think multiple beast forms might be enough.

Tiger, I don't know about limiting skills. That will hamstring the character. In a low power game they can survive a few sessions without the powers, though you might want give them the equivalent refresh, indicating an increase in free will for the PC half and a decrease in free will for the NPC half. In a high power game, where players are spending 8 refresh or more on powers, losing access to powers is brutal.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 03:08:22 PM
You might want to cap at 3 instead of 4. Being able to pick a supernatural, strength, toughness, Speed, essentially at will, may be too high to allow a cost of only 1 for the ability.
I was thinking this would be fine because you can only take the powers as written, there is no way to do it another way. I could take the normal -2 that modular would cost anyway and that might balance it out
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 23, 2012, 03:14:44 PM
I was thinking this would be fine because you can only take the powers as written, there is no way to do it another way. I could take the normal -2 that modular would cost anyway and that might balance it out

I agree if it's limited enough that a -1 would work. I'm just not sure the version above is limited enough
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 03:20:05 PM
You are probably right, because it is giving you access to the big 4. As modular abilities normally does.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 23, 2012, 06:50:09 PM
Yeah, I'd make it cost 2.

Anyway, there are a bunch of already-existing Custom Powers that could work here.

Telekinesis for Rooster.
Displacement with the Invisibility upgrade for Snake.
Natural Weaponry for everything with Breath Weapon.
Immunity, No Metabolism, and Undying for Dog.
Incite Effect for Rat.
Quasi-Modular Abilities for Dog or as inspiration for the final Power.

The only animals that I think would be difficult are Monkey and Tiger.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 07:20:33 PM
And that is why you are one of my favorite people on here Sanctaphrax.

Also I constantly forget to look at custom Powers list.
I am thinking of making this power separate for each so that it wouldnt have to be a modular type thing, but each power would be encased in an IoP Talisman (+1 refresh).
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 23, 2012, 07:30:32 PM
You can only have one Item Of Power.

If you were using the Limitation custom Power with the Item Limitation upgrade (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25794.msg1604975.html#msg1604975) you could avoid that issue, but that'd be kinda fiddly.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 23, 2012, 07:40:19 PM
Actually you can have multiple items of power, but they would all be treated as an instance of the IoP ability, and obviously the discount only applies once.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 07:54:28 PM
Actually you can have multiple items of power, but they would all be treated as an instance of the IoP ability, and obviously the discount only applies once.
Correct. Also I may make the option that only one can be "active" at a time. Because of that I really want all of the animals to have the same refresh rate. The total of all abilities being -4 for each talisman
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 23, 2012, 08:32:39 PM
To start out with anyway.  In the cartoon there's multiple instances of more than one coin being used at a time.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 08:41:27 PM
To start out with anyway.  In the cartoon there's multiple instances of more than one coin being used at a time.
I know but I feel you would take a major refresh hit if you lost 4 every time you picked up one of these coins
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 23, 2012, 08:49:48 PM
No one said it would be easy.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 23, 2012, 09:25:59 PM
No one said it would be easy.

LoL thats true I guess. I want his goal to be collecting these things so maybe they were stolen from his monestary and he has a box that can contain their magic, so that at the begining of the day he would have to decide what to take with him (and still leave enough refresh if he happens to find one.)
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 25, 2012, 05:31:49 PM
So I was looking through the Custom Powers List and came upon this beauty:

Quote from: Custom Powers
QUASI-MODULAR ABILITIES [-Varies]
Description: You have the ability to alternate between multiple power sets.
Musts: You must "pre-pay" a number of refresh points equal to the total value of each set of powers that this power affects, plus a surcharge of one refresh.
Skills Affected: Varies.
Effects:
Two Power sets. Pick out two sets of powers, each with a total refresh cost one less than the cost of this power. You may use either set of powers, although it takes a full action to go from using one to using the other. The GM decides what is and what isn't a valid choice for inclusion in the power sets provided by this power.
Item Of Power Collection [-0] You own multiple items of power. Design a number of Items Of Power equal to your Resources skill. At any given time, you may use or loan out items with a total refresh cost up to one less than the refresh cost of this power. You do not receive the Item Of Power discount. If you have the Tracing power, then you may summon and dismiss these Items Of Power out of and into thin air. If not, you must treat them as physical objects.

Specifically refferencing the IoP Part
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 25, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
So I was looking through the Custom Powers List and came upon this beauty:

Specifically refferencing the IoP Part
That will give at max 5 though.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 25, 2012, 05:50:56 PM
Yep, good luck getting a Resource skill of 12, you could easily have four or five though.  Ninja'd by Addicted.

This power would cost you at least five refresh if you wanted each coin at four refresh worth of powers, and you could only use each coin individually.

For an example of this power in play check out the Charlie Wiseman character sheet in the Ann Arbor Alliance threads in Play by Post.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 25, 2012, 05:53:19 PM

This power would cost you at least five refresh if you wanted each coin at four refresh worth of powers, and you could only use each coin individually.

Which is what I planned to do anyway, That would give me the ability to at least hold all of them.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 25, 2012, 05:54:43 PM
Hold up to five of them...not all 12 if that was your eventual goal.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 25, 2012, 06:35:15 PM
Sooo apparently I kept glossing over that part.  :P
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 25, 2012, 06:46:18 PM
Sooo apparently I kept glossing over that part.  :P

I'm thinking the way to do this is to use each animal at a max of -2 per power. Then add an option to increase each power when they are all together. This keeps the total power of the IoP to between 20-25 worth of power, which seems appropriate for a quest of an group starting out anywhere below submerged. Then when you've gathered them all and you're powerful enough that they are becoming minor powers individually, bump up to -4 per. Not sure how you would work the trade off mechanic, so that someone holding 4 is in danger of NPC land, but I think that's the avenue you might try looking for.
In the cartoon could you use multiple items at a time?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 25, 2012, 07:47:13 PM
Yeah, you could and it was done repeatedly.  I think there was even at least one instance of all of them being used at once.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 25, 2012, 07:57:06 PM
Yeah, you could and it was done repeatedly.  I think there was even at least one instance of all of them being used at once.
Not sure about that for "Characters" But there was definitly an "NPC" who could use all at once. He was a big bad and it was the main plot for him to get all of them so he could be reanimated. (each one represented a part of his power, The rat made it so that he could move otherwise he was a statue)
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 26, 2012, 03:12:58 AM
I'm not totally satisfied with Quasi-Modular Abilities, in retrospect. And the Item upgrade for Limitation seems to make Item Of Power Collection unnecessary.

I think I'll take a shot at expanding Modular Abilities to cover all that cleanly. There are some other things I'd like to do with Modular Abilities that don't work so well, and this seems like a chance to kill several birds with one stone.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 29, 2012, 06:17:39 PM
Ok so I had another Idea for a martial arts type power.

This one is based off of the Naruto character Rock Lee. He is able to open chackra gates and gain immense power and speed when he needs it. I was thinking (Since there are 8 gates) that he would need to take stress for each gate he opens and would gain new powers for each.

Easiest way I can describe this is in scales of 2.
2 gates, takes a mild consequence and gets inhuman speed, strength and toughness.

4 gates, takes moderate consequence and gets superhuman tier

6 gates, takes severe consequence and gets mythic tier

8 gates, takes extreme consequence and gets physical immunity in addition to everything else.

Thinking that you might have to take all other stress tracks above in order to activate. Also you would only have access to this power for a single scene. I was thinking that it would be a -2 or -3 power. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 29, 2012, 07:04:44 PM
Ok so I had another Idea for a martial arts type power.

This one is based off of the Naruto character Rock Lee. He is able to open chackra gates and gain immense power and speed when he needs it. I was thinking (Since there are 8 gates) that he would need to take stress for each gate he opens and would gain new powers for each.

Easiest way I can describe this is in scales of 2.
2 gates, takes a mild consequence and gets inhuman speed, strength and toughness.

4 gates, takes moderate consequence and gets superhuman tier

6 gates, takes severe consequence and gets mythic tier

8 gates, takes extreme consequence and gets physical immunity in addition to everything else.

Thinking that you might have to take all other stress tracks above in order to activate. Also you would only have access to this power for a single scene. I was thinking that it would be a -2 or -3 power. Thoughts?
I'd say at least -4 refresh.

Extreme and Severe are close to auto wins for any combat, especially if the catch is 0. So even if it lasts for just a scene, and there's a cost that last beyond the scene, you have the option to win close to any fight, by yourself. And the other two are pretty powerful anyway. Take a minor, gain -6 in refresh. Become combat powerhouse, and probably not take another consequence. Minor probably clears before the next fight. Take a moderate and gain -12 in refresh, which is a beyond submerged power set in and of itself, so you basically become two characters worth of refresh. Plus if a person takes a recovery power on top of this, all the fangs in this power are removed.

To make it more balanced, perhaps, every 2 stress consequence you take gives you 2 refresh of physical power. So 3 milds could give you inhuman everything(except recovery) or a mythic. A severe would do the same. Also add in that these satisfy the catch of any recovery powers someone might have.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 29, 2012, 08:37:46 PM
I was also toying with the idea you could only do it once per session. Additionally if we made it so that you had to fill your stress track too. Maybe have it last at least two sessions so they dont clear right away. Technically if the character was to take an extreme, it would result in death by Naruto cannon.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 29, 2012, 08:46:09 PM
That'll be tricky.

First up, it needs to be incompatible with Recovery.

But even ignoring that, there are issues.

For one thing, consequences really aren't that big a deal compared to Powers. Maybe I take a severe and a moderate and a mild to get Mythics, but those Mythics will let me take without consequences a hit that would have inflicted a mild and a moderate and a severe. (Assuming I was going to take 12 stress over my track, I could absorb that with 12 shifts of consequences or with +3 to dodge, armour 3, and 6 extra stress boxes.)

On the other hand, those consequences will last longer than those Powers. It's tricky to measure the value of two things that apply on different timescales. And there's really no precedent for this in the RAW.

Also, this Power creates a huge incentive for foes to run away and attack again later. That's a bit of a challenge to handle mechanically.

And it's not clear when you can activate this Power. Is it an action?

So, yeah. I'm not saying this won't work, but it'll be tricky. And it'll probably be more expensive than you were hoping.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 29, 2012, 08:47:44 PM
I was also toying with the idea you could only do it once per session. Additionally if we made it so that you had to fill your stress track too. Maybe have it last at least two sessions so they dont clear right away. Technically if the character was to take an extreme, it would result in death by Naruto cannon.
Might be worth keeping that. Making it "similar" to a wizard death curse.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 29, 2012, 09:52:43 PM
Indeed. Also I was thinking that say you took a severe, you should also have to take moderate and mild plus fill your stress track. I feel it could end up balancing out, but I may have to talk to you in person Addicted.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 29, 2012, 10:51:46 PM
Plus part of the point is that Rock Lee doesn't gain any Toughness abilities whatever, that's why us body starts tearing itself apart.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 30, 2012, 02:51:21 AM
It fills your stress track, so even weak hits will take you out. In other words, it makes you incredibly fragile.

Then why does it grant Toughness? Seems kinda weird.

Also, you really need to define how this Power is used. As a supplemental action? As a full action? Freely whenever?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 30, 2012, 12:20:09 PM
Plus part of the point is that Rock Lee doesn't gain any Toughness abilities whatever, that's why us body starts tearing itself apart.
I seem to remember him being able to take hits better as well. Is that a false memory?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 30, 2012, 02:59:03 PM
I seem to remember him being able to take hits better as well. Is that a false memory?
He definitly does. Afterwards he is completely drained because his muscles were tearing themselves apart, but durring the time when it was happening he was using his muscles to their full potential by pouring chakra through them, which granted him those abilities.

It fills your stress track, so even weak hits will take you out. In other words, it makes you incredibly fragile.

Then why does it grant Toughness? Seems kinda weird.

Also, you really need to define how this Power is used. As a supplemental action? As a full action? Freely whenever?

That would be why it would have to grant you toughness, because anything that hits you beyond would have you take another consequence, it also gives the user the wary of using the higher powers, because they could easily backfire.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 30, 2012, 07:32:03 PM
It's a power that is supposed to have a high risk of backfire (someone in the series mentions it being a double-edged sword).  Rock Lee really doesn't get any tougher (stronger and faster, yes).
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 30, 2012, 08:10:43 PM
It's a power that is supposed to have a high risk of backfire (someone in the series mentions it being a double-edged sword).  Rock Lee really doesn't get any tougher (stronger and faster, yes).

I remember this seen where he gets hit in the face by gara, then just sort of shrugs it off as if it's nothing after going all super rock. If that memory is true, than toughness powers should count.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on October 30, 2012, 08:50:37 PM
That is a result of Rock being naturally a tough dude.  Probably took it in the stress track.  Heck, Rock probably has some Endurance stunts too, so yeah...

Having the Strength and Speed powers should e more than enough to make you ridiculous without throwing on Toughness.  I mean the whole point of that power is that humans are only so tough and you're accepting the consequences of ignoring those limits and practically killing yourself to win.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 30, 2012, 09:04:25 PM
Yea but the way the power works now he would simply be taken out if he took any more stress, which is why I gave him the toughness. Maybe its just inhuman toughness in all tracks but he should still have some buffer. Having more muscles makes you tough, and the fact that it can only be used for a small amount of time accounts for that.

I looked into it a little more and apparently each gate has a different effect. Worth looking into and I will post more on it here.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on October 30, 2012, 09:06:33 PM
That is a result of Rock being naturally a tough dude.  Probably took it in the stress track.  Heck, Rock probably has some Endurance stunts too, so yeah...

Having the Strength and Speed powers should e more than enough to make you ridiculous without throwing on Toughness.  I mean the whole point of that power is that humans are only so tough and you're accepting the consequences of ignoring those limits and practically killing yourself to win.

It definitely helps balance things better and removes the weird paradox of being tougher, yet not being able to take stress, so mechanically it probably fits better. Still think I remember him being able to take more punishment, but I don't have a source to link to so meh.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 31, 2012, 04:08:08 AM
It's hard to comment here because we don't have an actual Power writeup to work with.

Anyone plan on making one?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 31, 2012, 02:22:11 PM
I will work one up in a minute, I talked with addicted2aa yesterday as well. and have a few different ideas

EDIT: Here is the power so far.
EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION [-3]Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles making you faster and stronger.
Note: This power is still a WIP and has yet to be play tested.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might
Effects:
2 Gates: At the cost of filling your stress track and taking a mild consequence, the user gains temporary access to Inhuman Speed and Strength. This access lasts until the end of the encounter.
4 Gates: At the cost of filling your stress track and taking both a mild and moderate consequence, the user gains temporary access to Supernatural Strength and Speed. This access lasts until the end of the encounter.
6 Gates: At the cost of filling your stress track and taking a mild, moderate and severe consequence, the user gains temporary access to Supernatural Strength, Speed, and Toughness. This access lasts until the end of the encounter.
8 Gates: At the cost of filling your stress track and taking all of your consequences. The user gains access to Mythic Speed, Strength and Toughness. Using this power kills the user at the end of the encounter.
EDIT: Exhausted:This power drains the user physically. As such it can only be used once per session.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 31, 2012, 09:42:00 PM
Two important questions:

1. How do you use this? Does it require an action? Can you do it in response to an incoming attack?
2. What does "filling your stress track" mean? Does it fill all stress tracks, or just the physical one? Does it fill extra boxes from Toughness?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on October 31, 2012, 10:13:07 PM
Two important questions:

1. How do you use this? Does it require an action? Can you do it in response to an incoming attack?
2. What does "filling your stress track" mean? Does it fill all stress tracks, or just the physical one? Does it fill extra boxes from Toughness?
Thats like 6 questions but still.
1. Supplemental, answered, not unless suplemental can be done in response.
2. Fills physical track. Currently it fills the toughness track.

Me and addicted were talking though and thought that mabye instead it deals you stress back after the scene is over. There would be a cap on it for each round but that is what we are currently working on. Maybe it will work or maybe it wont but as it is now is what I have stated above
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2012, 02:14:32 AM
It was meant to be two questions with three phrasings apiece.

Anyway, I'd advise against having it fill the Toughness boxes. That really defeats the purpose of it giving Toughness.

By the way, how does this work if you already have physical Powers?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 01, 2012, 05:02:57 AM
It was meant to be two questions with three phrasings apiece.

Anyway, I'd advise against having it fill the Toughness boxes. That really defeats the purpose of it giving Toughness.

By the way, how does this work if you already have physical Powers?
Is it unprecedented to have some powers specifically not work with each other? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but due to the narrative of this power(Rock lee only having physical power, taijitsu I believe, in the show), it would make sense if the person couldn't have any other physical powers, and was limited in the powers they could take at all.

If it fills the toughness boxes, it's basically just gives armor, with some form of catch. Which is a waste of refresh, but since you aren't paying it's kinda moot. I think it works in terms of flavor, he becomes tougher as well as stronger and faster, but I don't feel the mechanics aren't quite lining up right. I do think it's getting closer to the right feel though.

I just noticed, that it's take up to in consequence, not take that specific consequence. That makes it alot harsher than I realized. Not sure if that's good or bad though.

Some food for thought, with the current implementation, once they break 6 gates, they add 2 to their defense roll, and get 2 armor. For someone of the same skill for attacking as this characters athletics and no super natural bonus they will hit only 1 in 4 attacks, and less than 1 in 20 will they hit well enough to inflict stress pre-weapon. Since all they need is a stress of 1 to either force an extreme or take him out though, assuming at least a weapon 1, they will achieve that close to 1 in every 7 attacks.
At the extreme level gate 8, assuming attacks are coming in with weapon 2 and at the same skill rank, it's 1 in 20 to take out the power user, 1 in 140ish to deal damage without a weapon rating, and 1 in 7 to to hit with no stress, pre weapon.
At gate 2 and 4, it's a little less likely than a 1 in 2 and a little more likely than a 1 in 4, to hit with no stress, pre weapon respectively.
Looking at that I'm thinking gate 4 is a little light, and doesn't scale with the others, since a moderate sticks around for a session +, Maybe kick in inhuman toughness at that level with the current implementation?

I still think stress caused equals stress taken is the model to use though. It has a nice karmic feel to it, fits the whole Eastern obsession with balance pretty well.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Taran on November 01, 2012, 02:58:02 PM
It's not an auto take-out if you have high endurance or an endurance stunt which gives you extra mild consequences...and I wouldn't take this power without one.  I'm not sure that's helpful, but just pointing it out.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 01, 2012, 03:14:06 PM
It's not an auto take-out if you have high endurance or an endurance stunt which gives you extra mild consequences...and I wouldn't take this power without one.  I'm not sure that's helpful, but just pointing it out.

True, It worth considering just not sure how to factor that in.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 01, 2012, 07:10:42 PM
Is it unprecedented to have some powers specifically not work with each other? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but due to the narrative of this power(Rock lee only having physical power, taijitsu I believe, in the show), it would make sense if the person couldn't have any other physical powers, and was limited in the powers they could take at all.

I don't think that there are any Powers that don't work with each other, except for Powers that are basically stronger/weaker versions of each other.

You could do it, but you'd need a good reason. And "this is a Rock Lee Power" isn't a very good reason, since people who aren't playing Rock Lee might to use this Power.

If it fills the toughness boxes, it's basically just gives armor, with some form of catch. Which is a waste of refresh, but since you aren't paying it's kinda moot. I think it works in terms of flavor, he becomes tougher as well as stronger and faster, but I don't feel the mechanics aren't quite lining up right. I do think it's getting closer to the right feel though.

I think it'd be better to just give armour. Less confusing.

Bear in mind, though, that the Toughness/armour will often be wasted because armour doesn't stack.

Some food for thought, with the current implementation, once they break 6 gates, they add 2 to their defense roll, and get 2 armor. For someone of the same skill for attacking as this characters athletics and no super natural bonus they will hit only 1 in 4 attacks, and less than 1 in 20 will they hit well enough to inflict stress pre-weapon. Since all they need is a stress of 1 to either force an extreme or take him out though, assuming at least a weapon 1, they will achieve that close to 1 in every 7 attacks.
At the extreme level gate 8, assuming attacks are coming in with weapon 2 and at the same skill rank, it's 1 in 20 to take out the power user, 1 in 140ish to deal damage without a weapon rating, and 1 in 7 to to hit with no stress, pre weapon.
At gate 2 and 4, it's a little less likely than a 1 in 2 and a little more likely than a 1 in 4, to hit with no stress, pre weapon respectively.
Looking at that I'm thinking gate 4 is a little light, and doesn't scale with the others, since a moderate sticks around for a session +, Maybe kick in inhuman toughness at that level with the current implementation?

I think that makes you too fragile.

When you've opened six gates, you're using 3 Refresh and pretty much every consequence you have. And in exchange, you get a 5/27 chance of getting splattered in one hit by anyone whose attack skill is equal to your Athletics.

You can probably safely assume that anyone worth going to six gates against has weapon 3 at least.

As for the eighth gate, it should basically make you invincible. You're killing yourself, after all.

PS: What do you do if you already have consequences when you want to use this? Can I take a moderate to use two gates? If I have a Severe, can I use eight? If I have a moderate and a severe, can I use six?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 01, 2012, 08:25:34 PM
And thats why I wanted to discuss it  ;D
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 02, 2012, 06:11:21 PM
I think it'd be better to just give armour. Less confusing.
Bear in mind, though, that the Toughness/armour will often be wasted because armour doesn't stack.

I can't find a reference for this. Is this errara? Common sense? or is it RaW?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 02, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
Note on the bottom of Your Story page 202.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 05, 2012, 09:30:42 PM
Ok so I did some thinking and tried to redo the power. Let me know what you think of this:

EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION[-3]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles making you faster and stronger.
Note: This power is still a WIP and has yet to be play tested.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might
Effects:
Gate of Opening: This is the first gate. You are granted access to more of your muscles, Gain Inhuman Strength and Speed at the cost of Filling your stress track and Taking a mild consequence.
Gate of Healing: This is the second gate. You are able to clear the stress inflicted from the previous gate at the cost of taking a moderate consequence after the encounter.
Gate of Life: Third Gate. The user gains temporary access to Supernatural Speed. The drawback is that you fill up your stress track again.
Gate of Pain: Fourth Gate. The user gains temporary access to Supernatural Toughness. Stress in these additional boxes is redistributed after the encounter.
Gate of Limit: Fifth Gate. This power lets the user gain temporary access to Supernatural Strength. Taking this power immediatly fills the bonus stress gained from Supernatural Toughness.
Gate of View: Sixth Gate. This power grants the user the use of the attack Morning Peacock. Gain Channeling-Fire. However the attack is restricted to close combat. Conviction is replaced by Endurance and Discipline is replaced by Fists for use of this attack. The stress you take applies to physical stress as opposed to mental stress.
Gate of Wonder: Seventh Gate. Grants the user 5 rounds of Mythic Speed and Mythic Strength. The user must take an Extreme consequence as a result of this.
Gate of Death: Eigth Gate. Grants the user Physical Immunity for a scene. This power kills the user.
Prior Gate: Each gate uses the previous powers of lower numbered gates. Physical powers are replaced by the next higher power. [Ex. Opening the 4th gate doesn't give you Supernatural and Inhuman Strength, just Supernatural]

EDIT: I changed some things so that they make more sense and are worded correctly.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on November 06, 2012, 04:05:43 AM
It's probably okay not to limit the first and second gates to once per session.  Mind you they would only be able to do it two additional times since the second time opening both the first and second gates would fill in a severe consequence if the moderate hadn't cleared and doing it a third time would net an Extreme, anything else would be takeout.

I like it, but I don't know if it's priced properly. Also why does the seventh gate only work for five turns, but the eighth lasts an encounter?

Also, suggested catch for Toughness powers?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 06, 2012, 05:28:16 AM
I don't think that this is a good plan. It's a huge complicated grab-bag of effects, and it's frequently unclear exactly what it does.

Especially the Morning Peacock thing. How are you supposed to survive using it when you have to fill your stress track and consequences to activate the previous gates? (Assuming of course that you do have to do so, I'm not totally sure.) Does it take an action? What sort of evocations can be cast with it? And why bother anyway, without specializations and foci punches are probably more damaging than evocations.

Furthermore, you really need to make clear what sort of action this is. And how it interacts with other consequences. And whether it's compatible with existing Strength/Speed/Toughness/Immunity.

The clarifications have to be in the Power's text, by the way. You can't expect everyone to read this thread.

Also Inhuman Toughness doesn't give a mild consequence, you keep saying Superhuman where you probably mean Supernatural, and the random filling/emptying of the stress track is just confusing. Also I think you mean scene when you say encounter.

The seventh gate duration thing is weird too, now that Mrmdubois mentions it.

So yeah. There are issues.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on November 06, 2012, 05:54:16 AM
I'd say Morning Peacock is similar to a Fire evocation in that fire (allowing for maneuvers or attacks where the element might matter in its destructive energy form only and not in the purifying sense) is generated but otherwise it's just a straight Fists roll, you accept physical stress for boosting the number of shifts generated beyond what your Fists can normally do as you would with Conviction and casting an evocation.  Could be worded better, but it's perfectly clear.  Looks like basically Control is automatic or defaults to Fists which also determines the upper limit of Shifts that can be generated.  I would say that since you're accepting physical stress that Endurance should be replacing Conviction and Fists is replacing Discipline.

What type of action should be noted agreed, probably a full turn consuming action would be appropriate per gate.

Also Sanctaphrax is right about not getting extra consequences from Inhuman Toughness so the Fourth and Fifth Gates will need to be reworked, so it might be a good chance to think about the way the stress track filling works.

Also, I think I'd let the Morning Peacock be used multiple times if you have the stress to burn on it while the Gate is open.  Because he's right without Focus items it's not going to be good enough as just a oneshot.

Still looks like you might be on the right track though.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 06, 2012, 06:04:48 AM
Could be worded better, but it's perfectly clear.

No, it really isn't clear.

As evidence, I present your post:

I'd say Morning Peacock is similar to a Fire evocation in that fire (allowing for maneuvers or attacks where the element might matter in its destructive energy form only and not in the purifying sense) is generated but otherwise it's just a straight Fists roll, you accept physical stress for boosting the number of shifts generated beyond what your Fists can normally do as you would with Conviction and casting an evocation.
Looks like basically Control is automatic or defaults to Fists which also determines the upper limit of Shifts that can be generated.
I would say that since you're accepting physical stress that Endurance should be replacing Conviction and Fists is replacing Discipline.

Each of those quotes contains a semi-supported assumption, and you seem to be aware of their shakiness since you introduced each with a qualifier.

What you're saying there might work, but your interpretation is no more valid than a number of others. Which is practically the definition of un-clearness.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on November 06, 2012, 06:30:54 AM
Fair enough.

Do you have any helpful advice Sanctaphrax?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 06, 2012, 05:09:29 PM
Appologies freinds. I was working on this at a computer that was not my own and had to put it up or risk losing all the work. Mrmdubois is correct in his assumptions though I do understand that it was not clear and I appologize.

I am just trying to work through it and get a better sense of what I am doing, which is why I didnt just create it and asked for some help with the creation.

I also did not realize that inhuman toughness did not grant a mild. However it does grant 2 additional stress boxes so that would be what I was reffering to.

Morning Peacock power would look like this:
Channeling - Fire
Natural Channel Custom Power (Discipline - Fists and Conviction - Endurance)
Martial Mojo Custom Power (Can only use in close combat)

Also what Mrmdubois said makes sense about them being able to use it more than once.

I limited the Mythics in the 7th because it would drain you pretty fast. Eight doesnt have a limit because it only grants Physical immunity, it is still restricted by sevens limits. Also still working on a catch.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 06, 2012, 07:21:37 PM
If I were you, I'd make the Power into a simpler "take Consequences to get physical Powers" Power. Or perhaps into a generalized "take Consequences to use this" rebate Power.

Stuff like Morning Peacock can be a separate Power. Maybe one that requires this one, maybe not.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 06, 2012, 07:45:22 PM
Sorry. I am trying to model it after a power from a show. I understand thats what you would like but I tried that in the initial posting of this power and you didnt like it that way either.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on November 06, 2012, 08:22:44 PM
What I would do is make the initial cost for Gates 1&2 be -3 Refresh.  Make every two gates thereafter another -1 Refresh upgrade.  This makes the total power -6 which is still much cheaper than the powers being accessed, but does a good job of also modeling the fact that it's an ability you learn gradually as you increase in skill.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 06, 2012, 08:32:14 PM
TWO GATES RELEASED FORMATION[-3]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles making you faster and stronger.
Note: This power is still a WIP and has yet to be play tested.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might
Effects:
Gate of Opening: This is the first gate. You are granted access to more of your muscles, Gain Inhuman Strength and Speed at the cost of Filling your stress track and Taking a mild consequence.
Gate of Healing: This is the second gate. You are able to clear the stress inflicted from the previous gate at the cost of taking a moderate consequence after the encounter.
FOUR GATES RELEASED FORMATION[-1] [requires two gates]
Gate of Life: Third Gate. The user gains temporary access to Supernatural Speed. The drawback is that you fill up your stress track again.
Gate of Pain: Fourth Gate. The user gains temporary access to Supernatural Toughness. Stress in these additional boxes is redistributed after the encounter.
SIX GATES RELEASED FORMATION[-1] [requires four gates]
Gate of Limit: Fifth Gate. This power lets the user gain temporary access to Supernatural Strength. Taking this power immediatly fills the bonus stress gained from Supernatural Toughness.
Gate of View: Sixth Gate. This power grants the user the use of the attack Morning Peacock. Gain Channeling-Fire. However the attack is restricted to close combat. Conviction is replaced by Endurance and Discipline is replaced by Fists for use of this attack. The stress you take applies to physical stress as opposed to mental stress.
EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION[-1] [requires six gates]
Gate of Wonder: Seventh Gate. Grants the user 5 rounds of Mythic Speed and Mythic Strength. The user must take an Extreme consequence as a result of this.
Gate of Death: Eigth Gate. Grants the user Physical Immunity for a scene. This power kills the user.
Prior Gate: Each gate uses the previous powers of lower numbered gates. Physical powers are replaced by the next higher power. [Ex. Opening the 4th gate doesn't give you Supernatural and Inhuman Strength, just Supernatural]
I did a little bit of editing. I left the 5 rounds thing because this power is supposed to be ripping your muscles apart. As such after a while you litterally shouldnt be able to move. While you do have Physical Immunity, you can only hit as normal because you have burned through your muscles. I tried to make 7 and 8 overpowered yet have high consequences because you arent supposed to use them. They are like last ditch type thing.

Saw Mrm's post while I was writing this and agreed.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on November 06, 2012, 08:39:54 PM
I would still change gate 7 to lasting the scene.

By the way I just realized, with the strength increasing powers the Morning Peacock will actually work quite nicely at doing damage since you get the strength damage bonuses, shifts left over from Fists over Defense, and fire damage added to that determined by physical stress accepted.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 06, 2012, 08:50:26 PM
Makes sense. however Addicted just pointed out that you will have to use some stress and probably take a consequence at the end. I told him that (for the stuff that technically happens after the scene such as gate 2 or gate 4) you can instead be taken out of the next scene(s) for recovery instead of actually taking the consequences.

EDIT: accidentally made a strike out.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 06, 2012, 08:55:50 PM
I would still change gate 7 to lasting the scene.

By the way I just realized, with the strength increasing powers the Morning Peacock will actually work quite nicely at doing damage since you get the strength damage bonuses, shifts left over from Fists over Defense, and fire damage added to that determined by physical stress accepted.

Combats for me have seldom lasted much more than 5 exchanges. That's a pretty epic combat if it is, and I would guess that player doesn't pop gate 7 right at the start, so it should last to the end. It does add a bit of tension to the scene too. Don't finish in time, you lose your super fighter.


I was thinking that since it will require a consequence to use(physical track will be full at this point) it might be a little under powered, but with strengh stacking you're getting a weapon 9 for a consequence, provided you control it. So that might mitigate that drawback enough, maybe
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 07, 2012, 03:39:14 AM
Sorry. I am trying to model it after a power from a show. I understand thats what you would like but I tried that in the initial posting of this power and you didnt like it that way either.

I didn't dislike it, actually. But if there are problems they should be pointed out.

As for the new Power...

The 5-exchange counter will indeed often not matter. Which is sort of the problem for me; why bother if it probably won't matter? Do we need another thing to track?

Besides, extreme consequences are a big deal. Giving a little extra power to an ability that costs one won't break anything.

I still don't like all this stress track filling stuff. It turns you into tissue paper, and makes your Toughness unimportant. Stress doesn't always represent damage, anyway.

Morning Peacock is pretty weak. You need to take a consequence just to use it. And you won't have many of those to spare. Also, if Strength is meant to boost its damage you should make that clear.

What does it mean to redistribute the stress in extra boxes from Toughness?

And you still need to clarify stuff like action type and interaction with other Powers/consequences.

Also the consequence scaling is a bit odd, in my opinion.

I'll put up my version later tonight, if you don't object.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 07, 2012, 04:45:39 AM
Aight, here's my take. I changed some stuff, maybe for the better or maybe for the worse.

THE EIGHT INNER GATES [-3]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles. This makes you faster and stronger, but damages your health rather badly.
Note: Consequences taken to fuel this Power are not affected by Recovery Powers. You may take any number of supplemental actions with this Power in a single exchange. Powers granted by this Power do not stack with other Powers of the same type.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might, Weapons, Athletics, Alertness
Effects:
Opening And Healing. As a supplemental action, you may take a mild (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gates of Opening and Healing. For the rest of the scene this gives you Inhuman Speed and Strength.
Life And Pain [-1]. As a supplemental action, you may take a moderate (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gates of Life and Pain. For the rest of the scene this gives you armour 2 against all physical stress and either Supernatural Speed or Supernatural Strength. You may not open the Gates of Life and Pain unless the Gates of Opening and Healing are open.
Limit And View [-1]. As a supplemental action, you may take a severe (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gates of Limit and View. For the rest of the scene this gives you Supernatural Strength and Speed, wreathes your hands in weapon 4 fire, and allows you to attack entire zones with melee attacks without risk of harming yourself. You may not open the Gates of Limit and View unless the Gates of Life and Pain are open.
Wonder And Death [-1]. As a supplemental action, you may take an extreme physical consequence to open the Gate of Wonder. For the rest of the scene this gives you Mythic Speed, Mythic Strength, and armour 4 against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Wonder unless the Gates of Limit and View are open. Furthermore, while the Gate of Wonder is open you may take a supplemental action to open the Gate of Death. This gives you +2 to all physical rolls and makes you immune to all stress, but kills you in four exchanges (or roughly one minute outside of a conflict).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 07, 2012, 02:35:23 PM
Aight, here's my take. I changed some stuff, maybe for the better or maybe for the worse.

THE EIGHT INNER GATES [-3]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles. This makes you faster and stronger, but damages your health rather badly.
Note: Consequences taken to fuel this Power are not affected by Recovery Powers. You may take any number of supplemental actions with this Power in a single exchange. Powers granted by this Power do not stack with other Powers of the same type.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might, Weapons, Athletics, Alertness
Effects:
Opening And Healing. As a supplemental action, you may take a mild (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gates of Opening and Healing. For the rest of the scene this gives you Inhuman Speed and Strength.
Life And Pain [-1]. As a supplemental action, you may take a moderate (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gates of Life and Pain. For the rest of the scene this gives you armour 2 against all physical stress and either Supernatural Speed or Supernatural Strength. You may not open the Gates of Life and Pain unless the Gates of Opening and Healing are open.
Limit And View [-1]. As a supplemental action, you may take a severe (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gates of Limit and View. For the rest of the scene this gives you Supernatural Strength and Speed, wreathes your hands in weapon 4 fire, and allows you to attack entire zones with melee attacks without risk of harming yourself. You may not open the Gates of Limit and View unless the Gates of Life and Pain are open.
Wonder And Death [-1]. As a supplemental action, you may take an extreme physical consequence to open the Gate of Wonder. For the rest of the scene this gives you Mythic Speed, Mythic Strength, and armour 4 against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Wonder unless the Gates of Limit and View are open. Furthermore, while the Gate of Wonder is open you may take a supplemental action to open the Gate of Death. This gives you +2 to all physical rolls and makes you immune to all stress, but kills you in four exchanges (or roughly one minute outside of a conflict).

Thoughts?

Limit and view, that fire attack would not still require the +2 called for in evocation, as in original write up correct?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 07, 2012, 03:25:17 PM
I actually like it a lot. Its a lot simpler than the one I had proposed and I think you hit the nail on the head. I would however still like to know the answer to Addicted's question. Also thank you for helping me on this power. This is really only the second custom power I have done and the first one is the one at the begining of this thread.

EDIT: Would there be any way for you to split this up so that each gate is its own thing though? I like how you smoothed the edges but it should be possible to open just one gate at a time. Which was what I was trying to go for with my last attempt. It may have over complicated things but I was trying to get rewards and consequences for each gate, which I was having trouble with.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 07, 2012, 11:03:52 PM
Limit and view, that fire attack would not still require the +2 called for in evocation, as in original write up correct?

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but I don't think it requires anything like that.

I actually like it a lot. Its a lot simpler than the one I had proposed and I think you hit the nail on the head. I would however still like to know the answer to Addicted's question. Also thank you for helping me on this power. This is really only the second custom power I have done and the first one is the one at the begining of this thread.

EDIT: Would there be any way for you to split this up so that each gate is its own thing though? I like how you smoothed the edges but it should be possible to open just one gate at a time. Which was what I was trying to go for with my last attempt. It may have over complicated things but I was trying to get rewards and consequences for each gate, which I was having trouble with.

Thanks and you're welcome.

Making each gate matter would be tricky. It's easy enough to give each gate an ability, but giving each gate a cost is much harder.

Perhaps the odd-numbered gates could make you take a consequence at the end of the scene while the even-numbered ones make the consequences happen immediately instead. That's not a great idea, but I can't think of much else.

Maybe some kind of Sponsor Debt thing could work...
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 07, 2012, 11:06:51 PM
Yea
The only other thing I can think of is to give each one a refresh cost so that the total becomes 8 but then i feel no one will go for them all. as it is now i dont see many people getting 7 and 8
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Mrmdubois on November 08, 2012, 07:20:24 AM
Which to be fair mimics the power this is based on pretty closely.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 08, 2012, 02:38:16 PM
Which to be fair mimics the power this is based on pretty closely.

That's true. Only like 5 people in the show know it. Guy is the only one who can do 8 and Lee gets up to 6 at one point. Kakashi only can do the first one, and the others are side characters who we dont really know what gate they oppened.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 08, 2012, 05:08:34 PM
Hows this?

EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION [-1]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles. This makes you faster and stronger, but damages your health rather badly.
Note: Consequences taken to fuel this Power are not affected by Recovery Powers. You may take two supplemental actions associated with this Power in a single exchange. Powers granted by this Power do not stack with other Powers of the same type.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might, Weapons, Athletics, Alertness
Effects:
Gate of Opening: First Gate. As a supplemental action, you may take a mild (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Opening. For the rest of the scene this gives you Inhuman Speed and Strength.
Gate of Healing [-1]: Second Gate. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Healing. Upon opening the Gate of Healing you may clear your stress track as though the scene had ended. You may not use the Gate of Healing unless the Gate of Opening is open.
Gate of Life [-1]: Third Gate. As a supplemental action, you may take a moderate (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you either Supernatural Speed or Supernatural Strength. You may not open the Gate of Life unless the Gate of Healing is open.
Gate of Pain [-1]: Fourth Gate. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you armour 2 against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Pain unless the Gate of Life is open.
Gate of Limit [-1]: Fifth Gate. As a supplemental action, you may take a severe (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Limit. For the rest of the scene this gives you Supernatural Strength and Speed, You may not open the Gate of Limit unless the Gate of Life is open.
Gate of View [-1]: Sixth Gate. As a supplemental action, you may activate the Gate of View. For the rest of the scene your hands are wreathed in weapon 4 fire, and allow you to attack entire zones with melee attacks without risk of harming yourself. You may not open the Gates of View unless the Gates of Limit is open.
Gate of Wonder [-1]: Seventh Gate. As a supplemental action, you may take an extreme physical consequence to open the Gate of Wonder. For the rest of the scene this gives you Mythic Speed, Mythic Strength, and armour 4 against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Wonder unless the Gate of View is open.
Gate of Death [-1]: Eighth Gate. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Death. This gives you +2 to all physical rolls and makes you immune to all stress, but kills you in four exchanges (or roughly one minute outside of a conflict). You may not open the Gate of View unless the Gate of Wonder is open.
Gate Intermediate [-1]: You may take four supplemental actions associated with this Power in a single exchange.
Gate Master [-1]: (requires Gate Intermediate) You may take six supplemental actions associated with this Power in a single exchange.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 08, 2012, 07:02:16 PM
Decent shot, but there are some major issues.

The base Power seems too strong. I charged 3 Refresh for that effect, you're charging 1.

The second gate is also iffy. 1 Refresh to clear your stress track once/scene is pretty impressive, especially if it applying to social and mental stress is not a typo. On the other hand, maybe it's not as good as it looks: the only canon Power that does something like this is Blood Drinker so I haven't seen an effect like this in action very often.

The gates after that all look weak. I charged 1 Refresh and 1 action for each of those effects, you're charging 2 Refresh and 2 actions. The last gate is especially bad...spending Refresh on a Power that kills you if you ever use it is just terrible.

Now, I'm not totally confident in my costing. But I don't think it was three times too expensive for the base Power and two times too cheap for the other ones. This costing seems wonky to me.

Also, there are some typos and its not clear whether the second gate affects Consequences if you have Recovery.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 08, 2012, 07:27:42 PM
suggestion.
THE EIGHT INNER GATES [-2]

Opening And Healing.
Life And Pain [-2].
Limit And View [-2].
Wonder And Death [-2].

Each gate that causes a consequence is a free action, each gate that doesn't is a supplemental.

So activating a pair of gates, cost 2 refresh, a supplemental, and a consequence, besides the last pair, which would have the supplemental eaten by taking the death consequence.

specify that recovery powers can't be activated by the gate of healing, and it only applies to physical(possibly mental, but not social)
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 08, 2012, 07:29:16 PM
Thats basically the same thing though...
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 08, 2012, 07:40:22 PM

Each gate that causes a consequence is a free action, each gate that doesn't is a supplemental.

So activating a pair of gates, cost 2 refresh, a supplemental, and a consequence, besides the last pair, which would have the supplemental eaten by taking the death consequence.

specify that recovery powers can't be activated by the gate of healing, and it only applies to physical(possibly mental, but not social)
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 08, 2012, 08:48:30 PM
Splits up the costs into bursts. Removes 1 of the supplemental actions. Clarifies the issues Santca had in wording.

cost is in the middle of both of yours, keeps the power smaller, though less customizable
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 08, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
So for some reason when I modified my post it just made a new post that erased all my text and just kept the quote.

What I said was that I like the fact that each one gets activated on its own. I was thinking that the original cost could be upped to -2 so that it would take the sting. The thing is not very many people would take the higher ones, and thats expected, but I did want them stated out.

I would be willing to group 7 and 8 posibly even 5 and 6 but would like, at the least, for the first ones to be separeate
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 08, 2012, 09:33:34 PM
They will still be activated on their own. Or well, they can be or they can activated together. Putting them in the package just keeps the purchase easy to track. It doesn't affect the mechanics after purchase at all. Not necessary, just gives it a bit cleaner form factor. Your power is already almost a page and contains almost no fluff.

But yeah, I do think removing the supplemental from the consequence causing gates helps even out costs
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 08, 2012, 10:28:21 PM
Maybe but it would read like this:
(click to show/hide)
As opposed to this:
(click to show/hide)

unless you are talking about doing it Sancta's way
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Addicted2aa on November 08, 2012, 11:01:16 PM
It would look like this.

I made some edits to the power as well. The extra supplemental for -2 seemed a little expensive so I pulled it out of the main write up. Changed the stacking to allow it. I think it makes narrative sense, though it may not work mechanically well. Combined each 2 gates into one single power, with two activation steps. I removed Gate intermediate. There are only 3 supplemental actions in the power as is now. Gate master should maybe allow all 3 to count as a single supplemental. That may be a better -1 power. Rewrote the way you addressed recovery powers, both in the notes and in gate of healing. Specified physical stress in both healing and death gates.

I also feel the notes could specify the gates need to be opened in order, so it doesn't have to repeat at each gate but I left that. It's about the same size with an easier to read format

EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION [-2]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles. This makes you faster and stronger, but damages your health rather badly.
Note: Consequences taken to fuel this Power act as the catch for all toughness powers. All physical powers stack with others. Eg, if you have inhuman strength already, the first gate will give you supernatural.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might, Weapons, Athletics, Alertness
Effects:
Gates of Opening and Healing: First and Second Gates. As a free action, you may take a mild (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Opening. For the rest of the scene this gives you Inhuman Speed and Strength. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Healing. Upon opening the Gate of Healing you may clear your physical stress track as though the scene had ended. This will not trigger recovery powers to clear out other consequences. You may not use the Gate of Healing unless the Gate of Opening is open.

Gates of Life and Pain [-2]: Third and Fourth Gate. As a free action, you may take a moderate (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you either Supernatural Speed or Supernatural Strength. You may not open the Gate of Life unless the Gate of Healing is open. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you armour 2 against all physical stress(stacks with toughness). You may not open the Gate of Pain unless the Gate of Life is open.

Gates of Limit and View [-2]: Fifth and Sixth Gate. As a free action, you may take a severe (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Limit. For the rest of the scene this gives you Supernatural Strength and Speed, You may not open the Gate of Limit unless the Gate of Life is open. As a supplemental action, you may activate the Gate of View. For the rest of the scene your hands are wreathed in weapon 4 fire, and allow you to attack entire zones with melee attacks without risk of harming yourself. You may not open the Gates of View unless the Gates of Limit is open.

Gates of Wonder and Death [-2]: Seventh and Eight Gate. As a free action, you may take an extreme physical consequence to open the Gate of Wonder. For the rest of the scene this gives you Mythic Speed, Mythic Strength, and armour 4(stacks with toughness) against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Wonder unless the Gate of View is open. As a free action, you may open the Gate of Death. This gives you +2 to all physical rolls and makes you immune to all physical stress, but kills you in four exchanges (or roughly one minute outside of a conflict). You may not open the Gate of View unless the Gate of Wonder is open.

Gate Master [-1]: You may take up to 3 supplemental actions associated with this Power in a single exchange as a full round action.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 09, 2012, 05:16:24 AM
If you're going to make each gate cost the same, you should probably make the early gates weaker and the later ones stronger.

I front-loaded the costs in my version for a reason: the first two gates are much easier to use than the later ones. And they offer a similar amount of Power. So they should cost more.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 09, 2012, 03:12:09 PM
So would you be ok with it Sancta if the first 2 gates cost -2 and the rest cost -1 or would the first gate cost -3? as it was in yours
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 10, 2012, 04:08:48 AM
Honestly, I don't know any more.

EDIT: I'm updating the list. This should probably go on. I'm not totally sure which version to use. What do you think?
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 13, 2012, 02:27:19 PM
Ok so how about this:

EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION [-3]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles. This makes you faster and stronger, but damages your health rather badly.
Note: Consequences taken to fuel this Power act as the catch for all toughness powers, and they do not start to heal until the scene after they are activated. Powers taken in this way do not stack.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might, Weapons, Athletics, Alertness
Effects:
Gates of Opening and Healing: First and Second Gates. As a free action, you may take a mild (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Opening. For the rest of the scene this gives you Inhuman Speed and Strength. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Healing. Upon opening the Gate of Healing you may clear your physical stress track as though the scene had ended. This will not trigger recovery powers to clear out other consequences. You may not use the Gate of Healing unless the Gate of Opening is open.

Gates of Life and Pain [-2]: Third and Fourth Gate. As a free action, you may take a moderate (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you either Supernatural Speed or Supernatural Strength. You may not open the Gate of Life unless the Gate of Healing is open. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you armour 2 against all physical stress(stacks with toughness). You may not open the Gate of Pain unless the Gate of Life is open.

Gates of Limit and View [-1]: Fifth and Sixth Gate. As a free action, you may take a severe (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Limit. For the rest of the scene this gives you Supernatural Strength and Speed, You may not open the Gate of Limit unless the Gate of Life is open. As a supplemental action, you may activate the Gate of View. For the rest of the scene your hands are wreathed in weapon 4 fire, and allow you to attack entire zones with melee attacks without risk of harming yourself. You may not open the Gates of View unless the Gates of Limit is open.

Gates of Wonder and Death [-1]: Seventh and Eight Gate. As a free action, you may take an extreme physical consequence to open the Gate of Wonder. For the rest of the scene this gives you Mythic Speed, Mythic Strength, and armour 4(stacks with toughness) against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Wonder unless the Gate of View is open. As a free action, you may open the Gate of Death. This gives you +2 to all physical rolls and makes you immune to all physical stress, but kills you in four exchanges (or roughly one minute outside of a conflict). You may not open the Gate of View unless the Gate of Wonder is open.

Gate Master [-1]: You may take up to 3 supplemental actions associated with this Power in a single exchange as a full round action.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Sanctaphrax on November 14, 2012, 03:37:51 AM
I dunno.

I think the action difference is a clever way to make each Gate a thing. But I'm not a huge fan of most of the other ways in which this differs from my version.

It does more for 3 Refresh, but for some reason the first upgrade costs more even though it does basically the same thing.

I'm undecided on the Gate Of Healing effect. It's worrying balance-wise, but it does encourage characters to use the Power once they've been fighting for a while which is cool. I probably just would have had the first gate give one Inhuman and the second give the other, but you may be onto something here.

Also, I don't like Gate Master. It just seems pointless.
Title: Re: Character Concept - Homebrew Power Feedback
Post by: Lavecki121 on November 18, 2012, 05:02:13 PM
Ok, well I am going to make one last change to this and be done with it as long as my GM (addicted) agrees.
Ok so how about this:

EIGHT GATES RELEASED FORMATION [-3]
Description: You are able to push your life force through your muscles. This makes you faster and stronger, but damages your health rather badly.
Note: Consequences taken to fuel this Power act as the catch for all toughness powers, and they do not start to heal until the scene after they are activated. Powers taken in this way do not stack. Supplemental actions described in this power are not affected by Speed Powers.
Skills Affected: Endurance, Fists, Might, Weapons, Athletics, Alertness
Effects:
Gates of Opening and Healing: First and Second Gates. As a free action, you may take a mild (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Opening. For the rest of the scene this gives you Inhuman Speed and Strength. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Healing. Upon opening the Gate of Healing you may clear your physical stress track as though the scene had ended. This will not trigger recovery powers to clear out other consequences. You may not use the Gate of Healing unless the Gate of Opening is open.

Gates of Life and Pain [-1]: Third and Fourth Gate. As a free action, you may take a moderate (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you either Supernatural Speed or Supernatural Strength. You may not open the Gate of Life unless the Gate of Healing is open. As a supplemental action, you may open the Gate of Life. For the rest of the scene this gives you armour 2 against all physical stress(stacks with toughness). You may not open the Gate of Pain unless the Gate of Life is open.

Gates of Limit and View [-1]: Fifth and Sixth Gate. As a free action, you may take a severe (or worse) physical consequence to open the Gate of Limit. For the rest of the scene this gives you Supernatural Strength and Speed, You may not open the Gate of Limit unless the Gate of Life is open. As a supplemental action, you may activate the Gate of View. For the rest of the scene your hands are wreathed in weapon 4 fire, and allow you to attack entire zones with melee attacks without risk of harming yourself. You may not open the Gates of View unless the Gates of Limit is open.

Gates of Wonder and Death [-1]: Seventh and Eight Gate. As a free action, you may take an extreme physical consequence to open the Gate of Wonder. For the rest of the scene this gives you Mythic Speed, Mythic Strength, and armour 4(stacks with toughness) against all physical stress. You may not open the Gate of Wonder unless the Gate of View is open. As a free action, you may open the Gate of Death. This gives you +2 to all physical rolls and makes you immune to all physical stress, but kills you in four exchanges (or roughly one minute outside of a conflict). You may not open the Gate of View unless the Gate of Wonder is open.