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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: admiralducksauce on October 02, 2012, 09:53:47 PM
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Yee-haw, boys and girls. This is my attempt to split off the nascent car chases discussion from Sanctaphrax's skills thread. First up I'm copying the relevant bits I could find from there:
Part of the reason the driving skill gets no use is that there aren't any chase mechanics. Are there any good chase mechanics for other games that might be stolen? Or does anyone want to take a crack at coming up with some?
An additional problem is that car chases work fine when you only have one or two protagonists, but tend to get odd when you have 4 or more. One guys makes a character who's good at driving, and he expects to get into cool car chases. What he really gets to do is drive the minivan that the rest of the team rides around it. And if there is a car chase, the car character has the embarrasment of driving a minivan for his part of it. Or even worse, the wizard in the back of the minivan waves his staff around and all the cars chasing the minivan suddenly explode. All that's left for the car character to do is drive the minivan back to base, carefully obeying the speed limit the whole way.
As for Driving, Spirit Of The Century has some chase rules. I've never actually played SotC, so I'm not sure whether they're good, but still I'm kinda surprised that Evil Hat didn't bring them into DFRPG.
Exalted also got some chase rules in a recent supplement. They look pretty solid to me.
Personally, though, I think the lack of rules for using a vehicle in combat is a bigger issue than the lack of rules for chases. If I make a wheelman, I want to run some vampires over. Needing to ad-lib the rules for that makes me a little less keen on playing a wheelman.
As you may remember, I tried to come up with some vehicle combat rules ages ago. They were okay, thanks mostly to devonapple doing most of the work, but they were never really complete. Recently I've been thinking about taking another shot at at them.
I think, if I were to do Driving rules for combat I would treat the vehicle as a sort of "zone within a zone". All attacks moving from outside in would face a border penalty of a rating equal to the quality of the vehicle (tanks would be, say, 5 with a high armor as well).
Drive would modify movement based on the speed of the vehicle, and then ramming would be a contest of 4dF+Drive, Weapon Rating: Armor as an attack roll against their 4dF+Drive & Armor rating.
Attacks from inside out would depend on the vehicle, but generally would be either 0, half or full depending on the type of vehicle in question.
When it comes to dealing with vehicles, I think covering chases and crashes are more important that rules for using vehicles as moving platforms for gun battles. The assumption with most combats is that they would be over long before a 10 minute car chase could resolve things, which would mean that actual car chases are almost always resolved by shooting at each other, never by one guy crashing, or whatever. But most people who want car chases in their games want actual car chases, not a gun battle with moving cars as a set piece.
Ever since Spycraft I’ve been entranced by the idea of simulating car chases in RPGs. I’ve worked up homebrew chase mechanics for everything from Savage Worlds to ORE, but hadn’t tackled FATE yet. This scene was pivotal, and I wanted to emphasize the monster-hunting bikers aspect of the campaign by having a chase. But because I didn’t have anything concrete mechanically ready to go, I asked the table. We felt the “default” suggestion of “best X of Y” rolls wasn’t going to be satisfying. The SOTC idea of “follow the leader’s roll” was too simple - again, not varied or satisfying enough. Each party in the chase had a stress track? Too fiddly, and how would you handle this three-way chase if there was only 1 stress track? I felt going back to the FATE fractal was the right idea, though, and Diaspora’s social combat popped into my mind. My ORE chase rules involve participants shifting in between abstract states or range bands, and this idea mapped well to a zone map! I hastily scribbled out the following zones on our map:
Lost
Trailing
Sight
Shoot
Ram
Cornered
Abel’s men and Dallas started in “Sight”. The gang all started in “Trailing”. The idea here was if you and another character were in the same zone, you could do that action to them. I ruled that opposed Driving checks would let you move yourself OR another character, and if you beat the DC by 3 you could move an additional zone. Abel’s goons, Rowsdower and Troy, wanted to get themselves and Dallas Junior Brown into the Shoot, Ram, or Cornered zones. Dallas wanted everyone “off the map”, and tried to keep himself down towards the “Lost” zone. The PCs mostly went after Abel’s men but worked to hinder Dallas and keep him from giving them the slip. I saw a few potentially weird conditions in this thrown-together map but the problems were specific to the map I’d designed and not the basic idea. I’ll get into that after the session writeup.
Engines roared and tires squealed as Dallas and his pursuers ripped through the strips and suburbs of Austin. It was a close thing - Dallas had a Driving +4 compared to everyone else’s +2, but the bikers used Maneuvers and teamwork to even the odds. Rowsdower and Troy got Dallas into “Shoot” - Dallas threw the Chevelle into reverse down a narrow alley and the Crown Vic followed, headlights to headlights. Troy carved up Dallas’ hood with a Micro-Uzi but Dallas blanketed the mercs’ windshield with buckshot. Rowsdower and Troy didn’t see Bill roaring up alongside them until it was too late. The former denarian host unloaded his Judge into both the Crown Vic’s left tires (it could’ve been damage, but Bill wanted to name the nature of the Aspect himself and so rolled it as a Maneuver). The black sedan trailed sparks as it slid into the main throughfare, unable to follow Dallas as he executed a perfect J-turn and headed for the highway. In zone terms, both Dallas and the PCs conspired to move the Crown Vic into the “Lost” zone.
Scott was ahead of the chase nearly the entire time. He saw Dallas trying to escape and swerved in front of a semi making for the onramp. The truck blocked the freeway exit and forced Dallas back into the rat’s nest of strip malls and Whataburgers. Dallas knew he had to get these bikers off of him one way or the other. He chanced moving Scott into the “Ram” zone (it’s like the friend zone but more violent), but it backfired. Scott’s store of FP prevented him from falling back and clever use of saved free tags led to Dallas being forced into the loading dock at the local Home Depot. The wheelman, a showoff until the end, put his blue Chevelle up on two wheels to fit through the loading door. Tires squealed, the car slid sideways, and Dallas parked his muscle car - hard - into the lumber aisles.
And also:
I really liked the idea of using a zone map for relative positioning during a chase scene, and for the most part I think it worked out well. I’m not sure how much I liked the simplification where you moved 1 zone on any success and an additional zone if you rolled 3 over the difficulty. That could be fixed by having a series of intermediate zones or obstacle ratings, then you could simply use your Driving effort-as zones moved. I do know I liked the ability to move other participants, and that’s a key feature towards making this rules variant work. That part’s taken straight from Diaspora’s social combat, though, so I probably just need to locate their SRD and reread it a bit.
Another bugbear with the system occurs when you have A chasing B who is chasing C, like the Dallas Junior Brown chase (I can’t not write his full name). You can end up with a situation where Alice rolls against Bob but manages to end up in a zone more suited for tackling Charlie, effectively using Bob’s lower skill to bootstrap her way into an advantage. Another hiccup is that when Bob is “Trailing” Charlie, he’s automatically also trailing Alice. Maybe a Venn diagram-style zone map would fix multiparty chases, I don’t know yet. I think the idea is sound, the maps just need some thought.
Shooting the car vs. shooting the driver: I ruled Kathryn’s attack on the helicopter pilot as a “RCV blood sack” situation. First, she has to be using a weapon that can penetrate the vehicle - no headshotting tank drivers with a rifle unless they’ve stuck their head out. Second, she needs to hit by 3 over the difficulty or have an appropriate Aspect to tag for effect, much like starting a grapple requires an Aspect placed first.
My car stats were basically just stress tracks (Armor:1, 3 stress boxes), but you could easily use the FATE Fractal to give them Aspects (“Supercharged”, “Last of the V8s”), Stunts/Powers (“Turbo Boost”), and Skills (“Maneuverability”, “Durability”, “Speed”). IMO car “skills” would work best as modifiers to the driver’s own skill. The stress tracks I kept low because it was fairly difficult to line up shots, so a successful shooting attempt should have significant impact.
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Here's After Sundown (http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=52316) which may have chase mechanics worth looking at.
Here's a rough attempt to adapt them to fate:
There are four different 'distances' in a chase:
Caught
Narrow Lead
Wide Lead
Escaped
Chases generally start at 'narrow lead'.
If neither side attempts a maneuver, the distance changes one step by whoever is going faster.
Maneuver types generally depend on the type of chase (athletics, driving, etc)
The chasee declares they are attempting a maneuver of a particular difficulty. If they fail this maneuver, they have 'wiped out' (crashed, or something similar). If they succeed at the maneuver, note the amount of 'spin' they got.
The to stay in the chase, the chaser has to succeed at a maneuver of the same difficulty. If they fail, they crash or suffer a similar mishap. If they succeed, note amount of 'spin'.
The distance in the chase changes depending on who got the most spin.
If the range is 'caught' the people in the chase are close enough to effect each other directly.
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That After Sundown system is foundationally similar to the one I posted, cool. It's a lighter version - like, if you've got a chase that you don't want to be decided on a single roll, BUT you also don't want to make it an event, you could go for that implementation.
A lot of your observations about chases are in line with my own, actually, crusher_bob. What I'd want out of a chase system would be the following (at least):
- Keep track of positioning but only in a vague sense. Chase mechanics where positioning is tracked by car length feel static. Break it down into large groups ("Can I see him?" "Can I shoot him?" "Can I jump from my car to his?").
- Handle multi-party and many-on-one chases.
- Make it difficult to end the chase by simply shooting or magicking everything in sight. Either make vehicles tough (I don't like this option, it has too many ramifications for using cars as "poor man's powered armor") or make them hard to hit or make the circumstances under which you can target a vehicle fleeting and hard to achieve.
- Differentiate vehicles from each other, at least a little bit.
- Make the chase about the driver's skill, not horsepower.
- Involve passengers in a way that isn't simply hanging out the window with firearms.
- If possible, change up the skills used. You need to have a deep tactical game if you're just rolling Drive for all of it, but if you can try other skills, you don't need as many little options to keep players interested.
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Road Wars, once it gets uploaded, includes some rough rules for a car "race" similar to these rules for car chases. Unfortunately there is currently some issues with the host account, so uploading it has been delayed a bit.
-Cheers
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There are rules for car chases. Their on 193-195. On a side note, you should be able to make attacks with drive, probably at weapon 4 or 5 for most cars.
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Those aren't chase rules. They're general conflict resolution rules that can be used for chases as long as nobody does anything interesting.
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Those aren't chase rules. They're general conflict resolution rules that can be used for chases as long as nobody does anything interesting.
And they're set up so you can't pull off Maneuvers and stuff to spice up the situation, because you need to generate effort on those rolls or you fail. Or a many-on-one situation completely hoses the one because the many CAN simply do Maneuvers. Anyway, I don't mean to poo-poo those rules, they work in certain situations, but I think we can do a better job for modeling car chases than "best of 3 Drive rolls". Heh. And if we can't, we have that to fallback upon.
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I want to use a zone map of some type for chases. Thing is, for 3-way (and more) chases to work, we can't use a subjective zone map as detailed above. After Sundown's chase distances and my own similar Trailing/Sight/Shoot/Ram ideas won't work when A is chasing B who is chasing C. It has to be an objective map, and you determine the available "chase actions" depending on the relative distances between each participant in the chase.
We're further hampered by really only having Drive as our skill (or Athletics for foot chases). Getting other skills in might take some creativity.
I say every exchange everyone rolls Drive as a sort of initiative (if you're a BCV with Supernatural Speed, you can roll Athletics, sure). Everybody's driving, and everyone rolling at once just might help to connotate a teeny bit of the chaos you get in a chase scene.
For every participant, ask:
1. Are you chasing someone? Yes? Did you roll better? Move your car relative to your prey.
2. Are you trying to escape? Yes? Did you roll better than someone chasing you? You may move THEM further away.
Any tiebreakers are resolved according to base Drive skill, then in favor of the PC, if applicable.
I'll have more bad ideas to come. :) Right now there's not much there to recommend it over the "best of 3 rolls" thing, I know.
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After the simultaneous positioning roll, I figure that's when you go around (fixed order is fine, positioning order, PCs first, whatever) and people can do other things. Popular actions might be:
1. Move again, rolling an opposed Drive roll against someone you want to close on (or someone you want to move away from you).
2. Maneuver - this doesn't need to be Drive, either, but it works. Creating obstacles, redlining your engine, etc.
3. Block - suppressive fire from passengers or jumping a bridge or evocating up a broken gas main
4. Attack - either Drive, for ramming, Athletics to leap onto another car, Weapons to actually swipe with something, or most typically Guns.
Now, except for the positioning roll and a complete lack of what you are actually positioning on, we're not too far off from normal combat. It's not very flavorful but it could work for expanding a chase into a meaningful conflict.
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You know, this all seems similar enough to regular combat that you might as well just use normal combat rules with like four minor tweaks:
1. You get to move each round even if you do something else. Maybe as a supplemental action.
2. There are some actual rules for vehicles.
3. The zone map is a moving area rather than a fixed one. It's centred on the chaser(s).
4. If a character ever gets off the zone map, they escape.
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You know, this all seems similar enough to regular combat that you might as well just use normal combat rules with like four minor tweaks:
1. You get to move each round even if you do something else. Maybe as a supplemental action.
2. There are some actual rules for vehicles.
3. The zone map is a moving area rather than a fixed one. It's centred on the chaser(s).
4. If a character ever gets off the zone map, they escape.
Yeah, I suppose there's merit in NOT completely revamping everything. And a car chase that can easily involve gunplay or BCVs ripping through van fenders shouldn't stray too far from combat rules, lest they become strange and incompatible.
#1. My positioning roll idea is the "Everyone gets to move each round" idea. I don't think I would count this as a supplemental action, although during the normal round's events I'd charge the driver a supplemental penalty if they tried anything that wasn't driving-based (shooting out the window's the easiest example). I would not apply the penalty if they used their car to ram or maneuver or block, however.
#2. Yep, gotta know how hard it is/how you go about doing terrible things to your cars.
#4. Ending the chase is actually an area where we might need a few custom rules, because in addition to the more "active" ways to end a chase:
- The prey escapes off the map/loses their pursuers
- One party destroys the other vehicle(s) or incapacitates the drivers directly
There a few other ways a chase could end:
- The predator corners the prey, preventing escape, but without actually destroying their vehicle.
- One party destroys their vehicle on an obstacle or otherwise becomes a victim of their own lack of talent. As seen in countless police chases. Basically "hounded until they make a chase-ending mistake".
The prey escaping seems like the flipside to the predator cornering the prey. They could both be Taken Out results, but what exactly are you applying stress to here? You can lose your quarry without ever attempting to damage their vehicle.
I think obstacles could be almost handled like Evocation, actually, and that's actually similar to how SotC does chases. You pick an obstacle difficulty before you roll, and then you have to make the roll as well as everyone else (or maybe just one target, or maybe the difficulty drops by 1 for each zone someone is behind you, or maybe use the Spray rules, or maybe you can roll at a -2 to apply the obstacle to every chase participant). Failure results in stress to your as-yet-unstatted vehicle, probably. :)
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I'd prefer the chase mechanics to work for any sort of chase, rather than just be vehicle based. I'm also a bit unhappy that our current ideas for chase mechanics so far are just 'roll drive (or athletics, or whatever the chase skill is) until the chase is resolved'.
Of course, the problem with allowing you to use 'other skills' during the chase means that most people will attempt to apply whatever their best skill happens to be. The same problem cropped up when discussions were ongoing about how to make a skill challenge system for DnD 4th that actually worked.
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I'd prefer the chase mechanics to work for any sort of chase, rather than just be vehicle based. I'm also a bit unhappy that our current ideas for chase mechanics so far are just 'roll drive (or athletics, or whatever the chase skill is) until the chase is resolved'.
Of course, the problem with allowing you to use 'other skills' during the chase means that most people will attempt to apply whatever their best skill happens to be. The same problem cropped up when discussions were ongoing about how to make a skill challenge system for DnD 4th that actually worked.
Yeah, just using the one Drive skill is not so great. However, we either need to expand the skill list so there's multiple skills you can take and use in a chase, find some way to add tactical depth on top of the Drive skill, or figure out what else we can roll.
I'm not a fan of the first option unless your campaign is all about chases, then by all means, tweak the skill list.
I think the second option is a laudable goal no matter what we roll.
But I think the third option might have merit, at least for vehicle chases: Vehicles have skills, and you roll THOSE. You can modify them with your Drive skill, but the skills come from the vehicle. Alternately, the vehicle stats act as modifiers to your Drive, either in the sense of restricting/complementing or as actual flat modifiers (+3, -2, etc). Either way, you can end up with a range of different stats that you can roll on, and those stats don't need to unnecessarily complicate characters outside of chase scenes.
I like Speed, Handling, and Body:
Speed: outrunning pursuit, acceleration, drag racing, maximum velocity
Handling: cornering, driving the wrong way through traffic, avoiding collisions, braking
Body: surviving collisions, ramming, passenger protection, plowing through obstacles
See, now cars can even have Stunts like "Cut Off", where you move the "ramming" trapping from Body to Handling, or maybe "Boxed In", where Body gets used for the "cornering" trapping.
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The more I think about it more I think having a chase zone map might be unnecessary. Let's treat it more like trying to start a grapple, where you need an appropriate Aspect in place before you can attempt to directly engage another vehicle. Otherwise you're assumed to be chasing them but too far back to make attacks at will. And that's how your passengers can help and how other skills can come into play, by making those maneuvers to place aspects that help you get close enough to shoot, wreck, corner, cut off, or otherwise catch or escape the other guy.
I think losing the zone map actually helps because it removes the overwhelming need for continuous Drive checks to set or maintain position. If the focus remains on what you want to do to the other guy, it hopefully will inspire more creativity and description. Therefore, chasing is the default, and you roll for cool stuff.
Stress Tracks: Vehicles have got to have stress tracks. I think it's unavoidable. A vehicle's stress track is a representation of how useful the vehicle is in a chase. Stress inflicted could be as abstract as losing lead on your quarry to specific things like being riddled with bullets or having a cracked windshield.
I also am coming back around to the "bidding" system used in SotC, James Bond RPG, and maybe some others. Whoever's being chased gets to pick a difficulty and they roll against that. Failure results in stress. Everyone else chasing that person has to roll against that difficulty as well - failure results in stress, but a success that ALSO beats the quarry's roll can inflict stress on the quarry. So the quarry's chosen difficulty sets one obstacle, while their roll kind of acts like a block each round.
Maybe blocks could be set against certain vehicle skills, ie "I'm zipping through back alleys, taking 90 degree turns every couple of streets. Nobody can use Speed this exchange unless they beat a... 4." I dunno, this is still percolating.
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Yeah, I like the bidding idea. IIRC Exalted uses something kinda similar.
But I also like the zone map. It's an easy way to track what's going on.
Random idea: maybe there could be such a thing as "chase stress" which measures how close people are to getting away/being caught.
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Yeah, I like the bidding idea. IIRC Exalted uses something kinda similar.
But I also like the zone map. It's an easy way to track what's going on.
Random idea: maybe there could be such a thing as "chase stress" which measures how close people are to getting away/being caught.
I think to use zone maps effectively you'd have to have a chase situation where the destination matters. Sometimes you need to get the beer back to the Southern Classic before the time's up or be the fastest and most furious driver to the finish line. But sometimes the quarry just needs to get away and they don't care where they end up, and it's those kinds of chases where a zone map falls flat for me. The absolute position of where you are in that kind of chase is not as important as your relative position, and if a goal is to reduce the amount of pure "I roll Drive to move my car" checks, I think losing the map ultimately helps us, as much as I hate to say it. I have a few ideas on a sort of relative-positioning zone map, but they're not solid yet. Something where each zone could reinforce each vehicle stat or a terrain type or particular mode of driving. Tactically, you'd want to keep yourself in the zones most advantageous to you and keep your opponents out of theirs, but then we should make it so you cannot both simply sit in your preferred terrains/modes/zones and be able to effectively take someone out of the chase.
I like the chase stress angle, although would it get unwieldy in multiparty chases? Would you have a stress track for a participant's vehicle's durability and then another one for their chase stress?
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I like the chase stress angle, although would it get unwieldy in multiparty chases? Would you have a stress track for a participant's vehicle's durability and then another one for their chase stress?
Wouldn't the vehicle's durability be represented by armour on the stress track?
Your stress track could be based on your Drive skill and your cars stats can be based on powers:
<<Thinking out loud......>>
Maneuverability can work like the speed Power: It lets you dodge easier and defend and increases initiative.
Speed can be the STR Power: allows you to move in quickly and make offensive moves
Durability is your toughness/armour
So a vehicle has 3 stats with 4 levels in each.
My honda civic has no speed, armour or STr boosts
A tank will have no Maneuverability , Mythic toughness and Inhuman speed
A formula 1 will have no armour, Mythic STR, and Mythic Speed.
Maybe the tank has better maneuverability because it has sensors and can squish obstacles...
</Thinking out loud......>>
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I like the chase stress angle, although would it get unwieldy in multiparty chases? Would you have a stress track for a participant's vehicle's durability and then another one for their chase stress?
Yes and yes.
Multiparty chases are a bit of an edge case, so I wouldn't be bothered too much if the rules for resolving them were an inelegant kludge with like four stress tracks/person.
And getting caught/escaping are different from having your car explode/exploding everyone else's cars.
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Wouldn't the vehicle's durability be represented by armour on the stress track?
Your stress track could be based on your Drive skill and your cars stats can be based on powers:
OK, I like Drive as the determiner for Chase Stress track length. But I like using the FATE fractal and giving vehicles actual stats. At that point, Body (or Durability or whatever you want to call the "this vehicle is tough" skill) can determine the vehicle's durability stress track. And then, Armor can represent an actual armored vehicle. Look at Mr. and Mrs. Smith - those BMWs that were chasing them definitely had Armor above and beyond a stock Beamer's durability.
I think giving stats AND powers to vehicles allows more freedom, and more finely-grained statistics, than keeping to the 3 tiers of powers.
Multiparty chases are a bit of an edge case, so I wouldn't be bothered too much if the rules for resolving them were an inelegant kludge with like four stress tracks/person.
And getting caught/escaping are different from having your car explode/exploding everyone else's cars.
Fair enough, although multiparty chases seem to happen to me all the time. :)
My last counterargument for having a single stress track is, couldn't being caught/escaping/exploding be part of the Taken Out terms?
Now, I think I have a zone map that could work for relative positioning.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/FATE_chases_01.png)
The idea is based around the 3 vehicle stats - Speed, Handling, and Body - and a general type of terrain that's best suited for each.
Straightaways: when you're in the Straightaways zone, chase rolls made with Speed get a +1 bonus. OPTIONAL: Crashes might also somehow be deadlier.
Tight Turns: Swerving and cornering is king here. Chase rolls made with Handling get a +1 bonus. OPTIONAL: Ranged attacks may only be made from the same zone.
Obstacles: Vehicular mayhem! You throw your vehicle around like a wrecking ball. Chase rolls made with Body gain a +1 bonus. OPTIONAL: Chase rolls MAY NOT use Speed.
I'm not set on the details, but each main zone should provide some sort of small bonus to vehicles using that preferred skill. The intermediate zones don't provide any bonus or penalty.
You can ram vehicles in the same zone. You can shoot at vehicles one zone away.
I think moving from zone to zone should have enough of a border value that most of the time you'd only be moving one zone, but two zones should be doable and 3 zones should be attainable maybe with naturally high skill or FP. Maybe border value 2 or 3.
The tactical level comes out here if you've got a way to move your own car into advantageous zones and to move your opponents into zones where they are disadvantaged. Maybe the zone effects should be greater. You could also assign Aspects to each zone specific to the place your chase is happening too. "Open Freeway" for Straightaways, "Off-ramps and Access Roads" for Tight Turns, and "Wrong Way Through a Traffic Jam" for Obstacles.
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Fair enough, although multiparty chases seem to happen to me all the time. :)
My last counterargument for having a single stress track is, couldn't being caught/escaping/exploding be part of the Taken Out terms?
Really? Huh. I'm not really a chase kind of guy, so maybe my idea of what a normal chase is is messed up.
And yes. But being taken out socially can get you killed, if the social conflict was a trial or something. Take-out results can blur conflict lines a bit.
Having thought more about the vehicle stat thing, I really don't like it. The characters are the important thing, the vehicles are just props.
There are some games where your gear is an integral part of your character, but this isn't one (with a few exceptions for magical gear).
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Really? Huh. I'm not really a chase kind of guy, so maybe my idea of what a normal chase is is messed up.
Honestly, mostly it's cops. Sure, one side's trying to catch one side and then the police are there trying to catch everybody. And something that definitely isn't an edge case is when many people are trying to catch one person. It's a little simpler than the cop free-for-all, but we still need to make sure what we come up with handles that (I don't think that part will be tough, though).
I also thought maybe for a zone map a 4x4 or 5x5 grid would work well too. It's big enough to handle many participants, you can throw down some scene Aspects or obstacle values randomly in some of the zones, and you can track relative positioning as well as get a sense of "they've got him boxed in!" or "this one guy's going around trying to cut him off". Plus it's dead simple to draw.
Having thought more about the vehicle stat thing, I really don't like it. The characters are the important thing, the vehicles are just props.
There are some games where your gear is an integral part of your character, but this isn't one (with a few exceptions for magical gear).
And I disagree here. Not statting vehicles in a car chase sounds as strange to me as not having weapon and armor stats for combat. Although I do agree that the driver's Drive skill should be the forefront moreso than some arbitrary vehicle skills, so I would personally use vehicle stats as modifiers to a character's Drive skill. If I have some time today I'll try to write up an example chase with an abominable mishmash of the stuff we've discussed so far.
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I'm not against vehicle stats in general, but they look too prominent here. Weapon and armour stats provide an edge in a fight, but they don't change much...they're just numbers. And not huge ones.
As for a many vs one chase, chase stress would work fine for that. A group of chasers could be modelled as one character, or we could have some kind of zone-attack equivalent.
The messiness comes when x is chasing y who is chasing z who is chasing x.
PS: Having vehicles grant "Powers" is very clever, but it gives gear more importance than I'd like.
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OK, I never got around to an example, but I did codify the "mapless" rules ideas somewhat. I actually like the look of them on paper. I'll work on a zone map version next, and then if time allows, some examples.
Chases
Chase Stress
Requires: none
Optional: Vehicle Stats
Chase Stress is a measure of how effective you are in the chase. It’s a catch-all stress track, and can cover losing ground in a chase to vehicular damage. Drive determines the stress track length. When your chase stress is filled, you are out of the chase in a manner determined by the Taken Out condition.
If you’re only using Chase stress, but are using vehicle stats, you may allow the higher of Body or Speed to modify the Drive skill for determining stress track length.
Durability Stress
Requires: Vehicle Stats
The Durability stress track relates directly to a vehicle’s condition. Its length is determined by the vehicle’s Body stat. When it is filled, the vehicle is undriveable and is out of the chase. “Undriveable” can cover a lot of situations and should be determined by the Taken Out conditions.
Vehicle Stats
Requires: None
Vehicles have two stats:
Speed: It’s a combination of acceleration, cornering, and top speed. I tried making a chart with Speed and Handling divided up, but honestly most of the cars came out with speed and handling either equal or with a difference of only 1 point or so. If there is going to be a significant difference between speed and maneuverability, use Stunts or Compels.
Body: Durability stress, surviving collisions, ramming, passenger protection, and plowing through obstacles. Body is mass and weight and toughness. Note that it’s not armor - if you have an actual armored car, you should have Armor above and beyond its Body.
A vehicle’s Speed and Body are usually not rolled directly. Instead, they modify their driver’s Drive skill. Most of the time a driver will be able to describe their action in such a way to gain the maximum benefit from their vehicle, but sometimes a wily opponent or a well-timed Compel might force you to deal with your vehicle’s disadvantages.
Vehicle Speed Body
Motorcycle 5 0
Sports Car 5 1
Police Car 4 3
Muscle Car 4 2
Coupe 3 1
Sedan 2 2
SUV 2 3
Pickup 1 4
Truck 0 5
Do You Know Where You’re Going? Chases Without Maps
Requires: Chase stress
Prohibited: Zone Map
Goals
The quarry’s objective is to Take Out their pursuers by filling their chase stress tracks. The pursuer’s goal is to fill their quarry’s chase stress track and Take them Out instead.
Initiative
Initiative happens a little differently in a chase. The quarry goes first, then that quarry’s pursuers take action in descending order of Drive skill. If there’s a tie, PCs go before NPCs.
Striking Distance (sorry, Bruce Willis)
The default during a mapless chase is a situation where all participants might be able to see their quarry/pursuers, but they are not close enough to ram them off the road or shoot them at will. To get close enough to take offensive actions, you have to tag an appropriate Aspect for effect, just like initiating a grapple in unarmed combat. When you do, you are considered to be within Striking Distance of your target. It’s a condition that’s a prerequisite for many actions during a chase. The intention is to make the chase about maneuvers and descriptions, not about a simple gunfight on wheels.
Please note: Striking Distance can be maintained over several exchanges if the Aspect you tagged was sticky. It also means that in these situations, your opponent can be considered within Striking Distance of you for any actions they wish to take.
What You Can Do on Your Turn
Shake Pursuit
Shaking Pursuit is a special action only available to the quarry. Choose a difficulty and roll Drive against it, describing the insane risks you’re taking to escape your pursuers. If you fail to beat your chosen difficulty, you take chase stress equal to the degree of failure.
The benefit of taking the Shake Pursuit action is that each one of your pursuers must now roll Drive against the difficulty you chose. Failure inflicts chase stress to their vehicles equal to the margin of failure. In this way, one skilled quarry can evade multiple lesser pursuers without having to target each opponent individually. If a pursuer beats both the chosen difficulty and their quarry’s own effort, they move up to Striking Distance as if they had tagged an appropriate fragile Aspect for effect. If the pursuer was already at Striking Distance, they inflict chase stress on their quarry equal to the margin of success between their roll and the quarry’s roll.
As the quarry, therefore, you want to choose a difficulty low enough for you to beat, but not too low, else your pursuers will easily beat it as well, giving them a chance to beat your roll and move into Striking Distance. If you choose too high a difficulty, however, you’ll take chase stress and then any pursuer who can beat the chosen difficulty will automatically beat your roll and move into Striking Distance.
Maneuver
Maneuvers are the most widely useful action in this kind of chase, and any participant, driver or passenger, can usually justify a maneuver. Maneuvers generally work as normal, although the importance of having Aspects to tag for effect in order to move within Striking Distance cannot be overstated. In addition, the GM should take into account the ever-changing environment in a typical high-speed chase when deciding if a given Aspect is fragile or sticky.
Attack (requires Striking Distance)
Once you’re within Striking Distance of your opponent, you can attempt to inflict stress on them. The skills involve can vary depending on the tactics used. Some common ones are listed below:
Ram / Trading Paint / P.I.T. / Sideswipe
You ram your vehicle into your target. Roll Drive to attack (modified by Body). Your target may choose to avoid the collision (roll Drive, modified by Speed) or welcome to chance to force you off the road (roll Drive, modified by Body). If you beat your opponent’s roll, you deal stress to their vehicle equal to the margin of success. If they are avoiding your attack and succeed, they may choose to put themselves within Striking Distance or they may move you out of Striking Distance. However, if they are countering your sideswipe with their vehicle’s own bulk, then treat it as a simultaneous attack roll. Highest effort deals stress to the losing vehicle equal to the difference in rolls.
Optional: If you are using Vehicle stats, add the difference in Body to the stress inflicted. If your opponent’s vehicle has a high enough Body to reduce the stress below zero, YOU take the resulting stress. Don’t sideswipe a bus with a motorcycle.
Shoot the Car
You make a ranged attack on the opponent’s vehicle. This usually is a Guns roll, but it might be Discipline if it’s a lightning bolt or something. The opposing driver avoids the attack with Drive. We generally even out the would-be penalties for firing from a jostling, speeding vehicle with the would-be bonuses to hit a large vehicle.
If the shooter is also driving, don’t forget the -1 supplemental action penalty.
Optional: The target’s Drive roll is restricted by Speed, this will make it a little easier to hit slower trucks and the like.
Shoot the Driver
If you’re shooting your opponent’s vehicle and beat their defense by 3 or more, you may apply that attack to the driver or a passenger.
Optional: Stress inflicted should probably be counted as if the defensive Drive roll was 3 higher, else every attack 3 points over the victim’s defense will be some sort of devastating headshot. Or you can reward the good rolling/FP expenditure and apply the full margin of success. It’s messier but it’ll resolve the conflict faster.
Shoot the Tires
Shooting out the tires is something best handled as a sticky Maneuver or as a Consequence of stress inflicted.
Block (requires Striking Distance*)
Blocks in chases work pretty much like blocks everywhere else in the rules, except generally you have to be within Striking Distance to pull them off in a chase..
*Sometimes the specific circumstances of a Block might not require Striking Distance. It’s situational and should follow from the narrative.
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I dunno, seems like more special rules then I'd like.
It occurs to me that speed and handling could be represented as weapon ratings and armour for chase stress attacks. If your car moves faster than mine, your attempts to catch me will probably go pretty well and mine will probably not.
In fact, you could handle this with an ordinary conflict...with zones and everything. If you're in my zone, you're close enough to ram. Doesn't mean I'm close to being caught, though...unless my chase stress is nearly full.
I'll toss up some suggestions later today.
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Okay, here's my idea.
A chase conflict is a conflict like any other. The objective is to either escape your opponent(s) or corner them.
Initiative is determined through Alertness. In addition to normal stress tracks, each character gets a chase stress track. The length of your chase stress track is determined by the skill you're using to move.
Taking an opponent out on the chase stress track allows you to either escape them or corner them.
Chase attacks can be made and defended against with whatever skill you're using to move. You may target either any single character or, if you are trying to escape, all of your pursuers at once. The latter option imposes a -2 penalty to your attack roll.
Vehicles make it a heck of a lot easier to win a chase. They give (large) weapon and armour ratings for chase attacks. A bike might be weapon 2 armour 1, while a typical car might be weapon 5 armour 2 and an exceptional car might be weapon 6 armour 3. These ratings depend on the environment somewhat.
(Not sure whether to treat Speed as a vehicle or to just use the Athletics bonuses. Regardless, the idea here is to make foot vs vehicle chases viable. They can happen in real life, too, as long as the area isn't a flat plain. Of course, on a flat plain the car's weapon and armour bonuses would increase to insurmountable levels.)
Zones in chase conflicts measure relative position, not absolute position. Chase attacks generally ignore them. People who want to mix in some physical attacks/maneuvers/blocks have to pay attention to them, though.
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Okay, here's my idea.
A chase conflict is a conflict like any other. The objective is to either escape your opponent(s) or corner them.
Initiative is determined through Alertness. In addition to normal stress tracks, each character gets a chase stress track. The length of your chase stress track is determined by the skill you're using to move.
Taking an opponent out on the chase stress track allows you to either escape them or corner them.
Chase attacks can be made and defended against with whatever skill you're using to move. You may target either any single character or, if you are trying to escape, all of your pursuers at once. The latter option imposes a -2 penalty to your attack roll.
Vehicles make it a heck of a lot easier to win a chase. They give (large) weapon and armour ratings for chase attacks. A bike might be weapon 2 armour 1, while a typical car might be weapon 5 armour 2 and an exceptional car might be weapon 6 armour 3. These ratings depend on the environment somewhat.
(Not sure whether to treat Speed as a vehicle or to just use the Athletics bonuses. Regardless, the idea here is to make foot vs vehicle chases viable. They can happen in real life, too, as long as the area isn't a flat plain. Of course, on a flat plain the car's weapon and armour bonuses would increase to insurmountable levels.)
Zones in chase conflicts measure relative position, not absolute position. Chase attacks generally ignore them. People who want to mix in some physical attacks/maneuvers/blocks have to pay attention to them, though.
I still like Drive being the indicator for length of stress track because, regardless of a footrace or car-chase, Drive indictates the participants knowledge of the "race track" - even if you're using Athletics to outrun your opponent. Knowing what alley's to duck into, where there is construction, knowing where there's bridges are out so you can jump over them Dukes of Hazard style, where there might be big crowds at certain times of the day...
If you go back to vehicle stats representing powers, it means a person with Inhuman Speed could keep up with a car (who's speed is represented by inhuman speed). Since you're giving cars stats anyways... The STR power already gives a bonus to damage and the Toughness Power already gives armour and an extended stress track. Just reword the powers. If you use "striking distance" STR powers already give bonuses to grapple.
I like admiralducksauce's "striking distance". Although this might only be required to do damage to the occupants actual stress track. Like if you don't care about taking out the car itself - where you just want to shoot the driver. It might also needed in situations where occupants are doing stuff to the other car as opposed to car on car action. This can be where other players in the car can use alternate skills (like athletics to jump from one car to the other, or guns to shoot etc..)
I also like the rest of the rules he posted, but I have to agree with Sanctaphrax, there's a lot of additional rules that go away from the basic system. They make sense and are good, but it seems like a lot to remember.
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I still like Drive being the indicator for length of stress track because, regardless of a footrace or car-chase, Drive indictates the participants knowledge of the "race track" - even if you're using Athletics to outrun your opponent. Knowing what alley's to duck into, where there is construction, knowing where there's bridges are out so you can jump over them Dukes of Hazard style, where there might be big crowds at certain times of the day...
Not a bad idea...Driving could use a touch of extra usefulness. People who want to chase people down on foot can take a stunt, I guess.
If you go back to vehicle stats representing powers, it means a person with Inhuman Speed could keep up with a car (who's speed is represented by inhuman speed). Since you're giving cars stats anyways... The STR power already gives a bonus to damage and the Toughness Power already gives armour and an extended stress track. Just reword the powers. If you use "striking distance" STR powers already give bonuses to grapple.
It would make very little sense for Inhuman Strength to boost chase stress.
And I'm kind of attached to the idea of vehicles as weapons/armour. It makes them meaningful in the same way that other gear is meaningful, which is what I wanted.
I like admiralducksauce's "striking distance".
It's a pretty good rule, though it could use a more clear duration.
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It's a pretty good rule, though it could use a more clear duration.
I think the whole striking distance thing ties into the aspects you tagged to get there, but in general they're going to be fragile aspects even if you rolled well above what you needed to place them. At most, I might let someone stay at striking distance until they used that benefit if the roll and specific maneuver made sense. I wouldn't let something like "Right Behind Him" set up an ongoing striking distance; chases are just too variable and positions too fleeting.
And sure, my rules stray a bit into "minigame" territory. However, if you strip out vehicle stats and most of the optional rules I suggested, it's really all about the Shaking Pursuit action and the striking distance condition.
Still trying to wrap my head around vehicles as Weapon/Armor values. But then I run a game about bikers, so vehicles come up more often than not. I'll be using more detailed stats for my own games.
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And I'm kind of attached to the idea of vehicles as weapons/armour. It makes them meaningful in the same way that other gear is meaningful, which is what I wanted.
Fair enough.
For striking distance, I'd just make it a regular maneuver-type thing. If the attacker creates a maneuver and tags it to get into striking distance, the person trying to get away can do something to remove the maneuver. Going full defense would give a bonus to do this.
The other option is to make a failed attack/maneuver/block remove the striking distance. Once again, going full defense would help, but as long as you are successfully doing what you set out to do, you can maintain your striking distance status. Anyone can actively try to remove the striking distance status which would have to beat the original roll that got you there.
I like the idea of the vehicles giving a boost of armour and weapon values, but they would probably only be used when trying to damage the Drive Stress track - and used as armour if you want to attack occupants in the car.
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I did a variant on my style of rules that does use a zone map. Here they are. I'd say they adhere a little more closely to normal conflicts, and I couldn't say which rules I'd use in my own game without running some tests first.
The Map Is Not the Terrain: Zone Maps and Chases
Requires: Chase stress, Zone Map
Goals
The quarry’s objective is to Take Out their pursuers by filling their chase stress tracks. The pursuer’s goal is to fill their quarry’s chase stress track and Take them Out instead.
Initiative
I've decided not to mandate any sort of initiative thing. People will use what they like.
Zone Map
When you don’t have a specific map in mind, you can use a simple square grid. 5x5 is probably a good mix of plenty of zones with room enough for movement but close enough to force conflict. 4x4 could work fine for a 1 on 1 chase, and 6x6 or more might work for huge fiascos.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/FATE_chases_02.png)
What You Can Do on Your Turn
Shake Pursuit
Shaking Pursuit is a special action only available to the quarry. Choose a difficulty and roll Drive against it, describing the insane risks you’re taking to escape your pursuers. If you fail to beat your chosen difficulty, you take chase stress equal to the degree of failure.
The benefit of taking the Shake Pursuit action is that each one of your pursuers must now roll Drive against the difficulty you chose, -1 difficulty for each zone between you and them. Failure inflicts chase stress to their vehicles equal to the margin of failure. In this way, one skilled quarry can evade multiple lesser pursuers without having to target each opponent individually.
If a pursuer beats both the chosen difficulty and their quarry’s own effort, they may move 1 zone. This does not count as a supplemental move. If the pursuer was already in the same zone as their quarry, they inflict chase stress on their quarry equal to the margin of success between their roll and the quarry’s roll.
As the quarry, therefore, you want to choose a difficulty low enough for you to beat, but not too low, else your pursuers will easily beat it as well, giving them a chance to beat your roll and gain on you. Plus, you don’t want to be too far away from your pursuers when you attempt to shake them, or else they’ll have time to prepare and your maniacal driving won’t be as effective (represented by the difficulty decreasing over intervening zones).
Maneuver
Maneuvers generally work as normal, although the GM should take into account the ever-changing environment in a typical high-speed chase when deciding if a given Aspect is fragile or sticky.
Attack
TL;DR version. You can shoot another vehicle from one zone away, and you can ram them if you’re in the same zone.
Ram / Trading Paint / P.I.T. / Sideswipe (same zone only)
You ram your vehicle into your target. Roll Drive to attack (modified by Body). Your opponent defends with Drive (also modified by Body). On a successful hit, you deal chase stress (if using durability stress, it does durability stress) equal to the shifts.
Optional: Use the difference in the two vehicles’ Body as a Weapon value, or , if your opponent’s vehicle’s Body is greater, apply that as Armor value. Motorcycles should not ram buses.
Shoot the Car (0-1 zone away)
You make a ranged attack on the opponent’s vehicle. This usually is a Guns roll, but it might be Discipline if it’s a lightning bolt or something. The opposing driver avoids the attack with Drive. We generally even out the would-be penalties for firing from a jostling, speeding vehicle with the would-be bonuses to hit a large vehicle.
If the shooter is also driving, don’t forget the -1 supplemental action penalty.
Optional: The target’s Drive roll is restricted by Speed, this will make it a little easier to hit slower trucks and the like.
Shoot the Driver (0-1 zone away)
If you’re shooting your opponent’s vehicle and beat their defense by 3 or more, you may apply that attack to the driver or a passenger.
Optional: Stress inflicted should probably be counted as if the defensive Drive roll was 3 higher, else every attack 3 points over the victim’s defense will be some sort of devastating headshot. Or you can reward the good rolling/FP expenditure and apply the full margin of success. It’s messier but it’ll resolve the conflict faster.
Shoot the Tires (0-1 zone away)
Shooting out the tires is something best handled as a sticky Maneuver or as a Consequence of stress inflicted.
Block
Blocks in chases work pretty much like blocks everywhere else in the rules.
Move
Movement works like normal, except you roll Drive instead of Athletics.
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I think the whole striking distance thing ties into the aspects you tagged to get there, but in general they're going to be fragile aspects even if you rolled well above what you needed to place them. At most, I might let someone stay at striking distance until they used that benefit if the roll and specific maneuver made sense. I wouldn't let something like "Right Behind Him" set up an ongoing striking distance; chases are just too variable and positions too fleeting.
And sure, my rules stray a bit into "minigame" territory. However, if you strip out vehicle stats and most of the optional rules I suggested, it's really all about the Shaking Pursuit action and the striking distance condition.
Still trying to wrap my head around vehicles as Weapon/Armor values. But then I run a game about bikers, so vehicles come up more often than not. I'll be using more detailed stats for my own games.
So you get to be in Striking Distance until you do something that requires you to be within Striking Distance? Solid.
As for vehicles as weapons/armour, it's extremely simple. If you have a faster and more maneuverable vehicle, your attempts to catch/escape your foe are more effective and theirs are less effective. This is represented through weapon and armour ratings.
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I took some time and wrote up an example using (mostly) my rules, one with a zone map and one without.
Chase Example: Zone Map
D: Dallas Junior Brown (Drive 4 all others 2), driving a muscle car (Speed:4 Body:2)
Chase Stress: OOOO
R: He is pursued by Mr. Ransom (Drive 3) and Mr. Bale (Guns 3) in an SUV (Speed:2 Body:3).
Chase Stress: OOOO
P: There is one police cruiser (Drive 2, Speed 4, Body 3) and they will take down whoever they can.
Chase Stress: OOOO (The trooper’s Drive is modified by the cruiser’s speed to 3, increasing stress track to 4)
Everyone rolls Drive for initiative. Ransom wins and places himself and the next highest person on the map. Dallas goes next, placing the trooper. Note: This is completely made up on the spot. Sometimes placement will already follow from the narrative, or you might have a different way that you like.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample01.PNG)
Regardless of placement, the quarry goes first. Dallas Junior Brown will attempt to Shake Pursuit right off the bat because he sees Mr. Bale hanging out the window with a rifle. He chooses a difficulty of 4.
Dallas rolls Drive modified by Speed (no change): 4 -2 = 2. Not good, Dallas. He takes 2 stress for failing his chosen difficulty by 2.
Chase Stress OXOO
Ransom rolls Drive modified by Speed (-1): 2 +0 = 2. Whoops, he fails by 2 as well. As he tied Dallas, there’s not really any stress traded either way.
Chase Stress OXOO
Police rolls Drive modified by Speed (+1): 3 +2 = 5. Not only does this cop beat the difficulty, he beats Dallas’ result as well. He opts to move 1 zone closer.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample02.PNG)
Ransom’s turn. He is going to use his SUV to run Dallas off the road.
Ransom rolls Drive modified by Body (no modifier): 3 +2 = 5.
Dallas defends with Drive modified by Body (-1): 3 +0 = 3.
That’s 2 more stress, +1 because SUVs have a 1-point edge in Body over muscle cars, for a total of 3. This chase isn’t going the way Dallas hoped.
Chase Stress: OXXO
Mr. Bale doesn’t want the cop up in their business. He hangs out the window and opens fire, since the trooper (foolishly, perhaps) gained ground as a result of Dallas’ bungled action.
Bale rolls Guns: 3 +1 = 4
The trooper rolls Drive restricted by Speed (no change):2 +0 = 2
2 shifts +Weapon:3 (assault rifle) = 5 stress to the cop. The trooper takes a Mild consequence.
Chase Stress OOXO Mild: “Windshield Spiderwebbed by Gunfire”
Now it’s the cop’s turn. He takes a supplemental move, placing him into the same zone as Ransom and Dallas, then tries to PIT Ransom:
Cop rolls Drive modified by Body (+1): 3 +1 = 4
Ransom rolls Drive modified by Body (no change): 3 -1 = 2
He decides to take the free tag on the cop’s Consequence, raising his total to 4.
The SUV and cruiser have the same Body, so Ransom’s SUV doesn’t take any stress.
Dallas would rather let the cop take on Ransom and Bale, so he supplemental moves 1 zone and rolls a Block to place an obstacle value on the zone border between them. Dallas powers through an emergency turnoff on the highway and fishtails down the on-ramp going the wrong way. The GM decides Speed applies to that kind of move.
Dallas rolls Drive (-1 supplemental move) modified by Speed (no change): 3 -1 = 2
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample03.PNG)
Now to run him off the road, his pursuers will have to take an entire move action to get to him.
Mr. Bale smirks, turns around in his seat, and squeezes off a burst at Dallas as a gap appears in traffic.
Bale rolls Guns: 3 -1 = 2
Dallas rolls Drive: 4 +1 = 5.
A miss!
Mr. Ransom decides to trade paint with the cop again:
Ransom rolls Drive (Body): 3 +1 = 4
Trooper rolls Drive (Body): 3 -2 = 1
3 Stress to the police:
Chase Stress OOXX Mild tagged
The cop is going to roll a Contacts maneuver, and call in some fellow officers to lay out some spike strips and funnel the perps towards backup. The GM decides that the difficulty is 3 to get them there in time to do any good.
Cop rolls Contacts: 2 +0 = 2. Sorry, officer.
Now that Dallas’ block worked to keep him one step ahead, he supplemental moves again and tries to Shake Pursuit (his block disappears as a matter of course). He chooses difficulty 5, knowing full well it will only be difficulty 4 for Ransom and the trooper because there is 1 zone separating them from Dallas. He drives through a gas station parking lot, creating a madhouse of scrambling pedestrians and spooked vehicles.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample04.PNG)
Dallas rolls Drive (Speed): 4 +0 = 4 vs DC5.
Dallas takes 1 stress.
Chase Stress XXXO
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2 -1 = 1 vs DC4. 3 stress!
Chase Stress OXXO
The trooper rolls Drive (Speed) 3 +0 vs DC4. 1 stress!
Chase Stress XOXX Mild tagged
Ransom takes a supplemental move, so Mr. Bale can threaten both their opponents. Then Ransom tries to Shake Pursuit on the police cruiser (remember, he’s the cruiser’s quarry as well as Dallas’ pursuer). He chooses difficulty 3, playing it somewhat safe.
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2 +0 = 2. ok, 1 stress.
Chase Stress: XXXO
Trooper rolls Drive (Speed) 3 -1 = 2. He also takes 1 stress.
Chase Stress: XXXX
He could keep going, but this trooper’s going to Concede. He’s taken fire and he’s going to hang back and wait for a helicopter to be retasked.
That leaves Mr. Bale within range of Dallas:
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample05.PNG)
Bale rolls Guns: 3 -2 = 1
Dallas rolls Drive: 4 -1 = 3. Another miss, Mr. Bale.
Dallas has to keep moving else Ransom is going to get within range and use his vehicle’s superior bulk to ram him, or Bale is going to connect before too long. His plan is to put some distance between them to start, then try for some Maneuvers to build up an advantage.
Dallas rolls Drive (Speed) to move: 4 +2 = 6
That’s actually more than he needs to get anywhere on the zone map.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample06.PNG)
Ransom is then forced to move after him, and hopefully get Bale within range.
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2 -2 = 0. Wow. I still let people move 1 zone even if they fuck up their rolls to below 0, so Ransom moves 1 zone and Mr. Bale has no target this round.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample07.PNG)
Dallas tries a navel-gazing Drive Maneuver and applies “Redlining the Engine” to himself.
Ransom’s next, as usual, and once again tries to move within range.
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2 +0 = 2. Just enough.
(http://dontrollaone.com/img/zoneexample08.PNG)
Bale opens fire: Guns: 3+ 1 = 4
Dallas fucks a chicken this time. Drive: 4 -3 = 1. He’ll have to tag his maneuver for a reroll:
Drive: 4 +0 = 4. Better than nothing. Bale hits and his AR deals 3 stress. Dallas is almost done but he has a full suite of consequences still:
Chase Stress XXXX
And now it’s Dallas’ turn. He wanted to have a tag available but assault rifles tend to ruin plans like that. He decides to go balls out, powering his supercharged Chevelle down an off-ramp and through some train tracks (hopefully) just before a CSX freight monster plows through!
Dallas Shakes Pursuit, chooses difficulty 8, and rolls Drive (Speed): 4 -2 = 2. DOH!
Dallas takes 6 stress, which he’ll have to soak with a Severe Consequence “Cracked Radiator”.
Chase Stress: XXXX Severe “Cracked Radiator”
It’s bad luck all around, as Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2 -2 = 0. He takes 8 stress, but can reduce it to 4 with just a Moderate “Blown Tire” and fill his last stress box.
Chase Stress: XXXX
Ransom’s in the same zone and Mr. Bale has a fresh mag. This is exactly where Dallas doesn’t want to be.
Ransom tries to sideswipe Dallas off the road and rolls Drive (Body): 3 +0 = 3
Dallas defends with Drive (Body): 3 +2 = 5. Safe...
Or not. Bale rolls Guns:3 +1 = 4, tagging Dallas’ aspect for 6.
Dallas rolls Drive: 4 -2 = 2, and tags Ransom’s aspect for 4.
5 stress after the Weapon value is added in. Mr. Bale’s rifle fire finally finds its mark, shredding Dallas’ rear tire and sending him ramping in spectacular fashion off a parked car and rolling over countless times.
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And here's one using no map but with the Striking Distance rule.
Chase Example: Zoneless
This time, I’m not going to modify the Chase Stress by the vehicles driven, but I will keep modifying their skills by their vehicles’ stats.
D: Dallas Junior Brown (Drive 4 all others 2), driving a muscle car (Speed:4 Body:2)
Chase Stress: OOOO
R: He is pursued by Mr. Ransom (Drive 3) and Mr. Bale (Guns 3) in an SUV (Speed:2 Body:3).
Chase Stress: OOOO
P: There is one police cruiser (Drive 2, Speed 4, Body 3) and they will take down whoever they can.
Chase Stress: OOO
Dallas is the quarry, so he goes first. Then Ransom, as he’s pursued by the police. Dallas is feeling rather unsportsmanlike after his failure in our last example, and he’s going to try to Shake Pursuit with a high difficulty of 6.
Dallas rolls Drive (modified by Speed): 4+0 = 4. He fails by 2 and takes 2 chase stress:
Dallas Stress: OXOO
Ransom rolls Drive (modified by Speed): 2+0 = 2. Ransom takes 4 chase stress:
Ransom Stress: OOOX
Finally, the cop rolls Drive (modified by Speed): 3+1 = 4. He takes 2 stress too.
Cop Stress: OXOO
Ransom needs to get within striking distance so Bale can light Dallas up with his rifle. He floors the pedal, charging ahead and trying to line Bale up for a shot. It’s a Drive/Speed-based maneuver, resisted by Dallas’ Drive/Speed.
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2-3 = -1 vs Dallas’ Drive (Speed) 4+3 = 7. Dallas earns a point of spin for that defense, and needless to say, Ransom does not make it to striking distance. There’s more under Dallas’ hood than a stock Chevelle.
Mr. Bale fires into traffic ahead of Dallas with a maneuver. I think this is best as an opposed roll against Dallas’ Drive, as Bale needs to create mayhem before Dallas can simply power through the traffic.
Bale’s Guns: 3-1 = 2 vs. Dallas’ Drive (Speed): 4-1+1 spin = 4. Dallas manages to slip through the intersection before Bale’s shots hit innocent motorists, creating instant gridlock.
The police officer, however, knows if he can stop Dallas he can likely stop the SUV too. He rolls for the navigational trapping of Drive but it’s a navel-gazing maneuver, and now the cop has a “Shortcut Plotted by GPS”.
Dallas doesn’t see the cop anymore, so he figures some random right turns at high speed should throw everyone off his tail. Besides, shaking pursuit is the most bang for his buck, allowing him to hit multiple pursuers. He Shakes Pursuit against difficulty 4:
Dallas’ Drive(Speed): 4+2 = 6 - he makes it for once!
Ransom’s Drive (Speed): 2+0 = 2. He takes 2 chase stress:
Chase: OXOX
And the cop: Drive (Speed): 3+0 = 3. He takes 1 chase stress.
Chase XXOO
Ransom plows down the sidewalk, crashing through signs and scattering parking meters. He’s rolling Drive/Body to catch up with Dallas: 3-1 = 2 vs. Dallas’ Drive/Speed: 4+0 = 4. Dude is untouchable right now.
Bale Declares that he’s got a police band radio and he’s listening into the dispatch calls so Ransom can keep one step ahead. With no FP for this example, I make it a Resources Declaration, DC3.
Bale rolls Resources: 2+2 = 4. Makes it! The SUV is “Eavesdropping on the Five O”.
The police officer tags his “Shortcut” Aspect now, swerving out in front of Dallas and trying to PIT the muscle car! Dallas floors it, cutting left across traffic, trying to defend with Speed.
The cop rolls Drive (Body) : 3+0 vs. Dallas rolls Drive (Speed): 4+1 = 5. Dallas successfully defends. The cop falls out of striking distance automatically - his Aspect was fragile, and he’s used the benefits of his shortcut. Dallas opts to place himself within striking distance of the cop now, not wanting to pass up an opportunity.
Dallas slams on the brakes and the cop relishes the chance to retry his P.I.T. maneuver, defending with his cruiser’s Body. It’s an opposed roll, winner deals stress to the loser.
Dallas rolls Drive (Body): 3+2 = 5 vs. Cop’s Drive (Body): 3+0 = 3. What would ordinarily be 2 stress is reduced by one since the police cruiser has 3 Body to Dallas’ 2, but it rolls up to the third box anyways.
Cop Stress: XXXO
After his attack, Dallas falls back out of striking distance.
Ransom saves their “Eavesdropping” aspect, and rolls another maneuver, this time against the cop. He’s using Deceit to lure the officer into Bale’s line of fire.
Ransom rolls Deceit: 2+3 = 5 vs. Cop’s Empathy: 2-1 = 1. Ransom places “Thinks He’s Got Us” on the cop.
Mr. Bale can’t fire yet - he’s not within striking distance, so he tries to plan ahead for Dallas. He lets his rifle hang from its sling and pulls out his smartphone, trying to roll his own Drive to figure out where Dallas could be leading them. I say it’s opposed by Dallas’ Deceit, which isn’t very good.
Bale rolls Drive (navigation): 2+0 = 2 vs. Dallas’ Deceit: 1+0 = 1.
Mr. Bale successfully maneuvers “Think Like Your Prey” onto himself.
The cop, having lost his advantage against Dallas, tries to force Ransom away from Dallas and into more open roads where there are fewer civilians. It’s a Drive maneuver.
Cop rolls Drive (Body): 3+1 = 4 vs Ransom’s Drive (Body): 3-1 = 2.
The cop’s placed “Open Highway” on the scene now.
Dallas’ll shake pursuit again. He stays to the side roads, looking for a place to head downtown, away from the highway. He chooses difficulty 4 again - he’ll nickle and dime his pursuers.
Dallas rolls Drive (Speed): 4-3 = 1. Whoops - 3 stress.
Dallas’ Stress: OXXO
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2+1 = 3. 1 stress to the SUV.
Ransom’s Stress: XXOX
The cop fares slightly better: 3+1 = 4.
Dallas didn’t count on the highway having an off-ramp right in front of him. Now both Ransom and the police cruiser are within Striking Distance of Dallas! (They beat his shaking pursuit result, regardless of the chosen difficulty)
Ransom rams his SUV into Dallas’ Chevelle.
Ransom rolls Drive (Body): 3-1 = 2 vs. Dallas’ Drive (Speed): 4+1 = 5.
Dallas can’t hurt Ransom in return, but by choosing Speed for his evasion he can get within Striking Distance of Ransom. Dallas drifts left, lets Ransom overshoot, and falls even with him as Ransom overcorrects.
Mr. Bale, on the other hand, is concentrating on the cop. He tags “Eavesdropping” to put the SUV within striking distance, then rolls Guns 3-2 = 1 vs. the cop’s Drive: 2-1 = 1.
It’s barely a hit until Bale tags “Think Like Your Prey” and “Thinks He’s Got Us”. He hits by 4, adds 3 for his assault rifle, and sends 7 stress towards the cop.
The cop takes a Moderate Consequence, “Riddled with Bullets”, and reduces incoming stress to 3.
Cop Stress: XXXO Moderate “Riddled with Bullets”
The cruiser falls back, leaving Dallas and Ransom to their own devices for a moment (he leaves striking distance).
Dallas slams his car into Ransom’s, hoping for a good roll for once. Ransom defends with Body, swerving into the Chevelle as the two enemies trade paint.
Dallas rolls Drive (Body): 3+0 = 3 vs. Ransom’s Drive (Body): 3-2 = 1.
It was a gamble, but Dallas deals 1 stress (2 stress minus 1 for the difference in vehicle Body).
Ransom’s Stress:XXXX
Dallas pulls ahead out of striking distance and wonders if maybe he shouldn’t have tried to shake pursuit again or invested in a shotgun or something.
Ransom lets Mr. Bale worry about Dallas this time and tries to capitalize on the cop’s consequence. He Shakes Pursuit, which will only affect the police cruiser, and chooses difficulty 4. He’s hoping for at least a zero on the dice and then to tag the cop’s Moderate.
Ransom rolls Drive (Speed): 2+0 = 2, +2 for tagging “Riddled with Bullets” = 4 vs. the cop’s Drive (Speed): 3+0 = 3.
The cop takes 1 stress: XXXX Moderate tagged.
This is enough for the cop and he Concedes. He loses sight of the chase as his stricken engine finally gives up, leaking fluids all over the road.
Mr. Bale tries to maneuver Dallas back into striking distance with his rifle: 3-1 = 2 vs. Dallas’ Drive: 4-3 = 1. Bale successfully slaps Dallas with “Herded with Bullets”.
Dallas is in trouble, but if he can remove that maneuver Ransom won’t be able to tag it to move into range. Dallas rolls Drive (Speed) against Bale’s original roll of 2: 4+0 = 4, and he crosses lanes to put a semi truck between him and Bale’s withering fire. The maneuver clears.
It behooves Ransom to get Bale within striking distance rather than try to ram Dallas. The AR’s Weapon value is too much of an advantage not to use. He rolls Drive (Body), trying to flush Dallas out by spooking the tractor trailer he was using for cover:
Ransom’s Drive (Body): 3+1 = 4 vs. Dallas’ Drive (Speed): 4+0 = 4.
Ransom does get “Flushed out of Cover” as a fragile aspect on Dallas.
Bale tags it for striking distance and tries to put Dallas down for good.
Bale’s Guns 3+1= 4 vs. Dallas’ Drive: 4+1 = 5. SO CLOSE.
Ransom and Bale fall back again, and we’re back at a neutral standing.
Dallas tries to Shake Pursuit. It’s an offensive action that he can at least maintain each round instead of setting up a maneuver alternating with attacks. The fact that he tends to do more stress to himself is an unwelcome side effect. He chooses difficulty 4 and hopes the dice are with him as he floors it through a red light.
Dallas’ Drive (Speed): 4+1 = 5 vs. DC 4. Success!
Ransom’s Drive (Speed): 2+0 vs. DC 4. FAIL!
Ransom’s chase stress is full, so he has to take a Mild consequence “Fender Bender” to keep the 2 stress off.
Ransom’s got to set Bale up better. He tries for another Body-based Drive maneuver check, simply driving over medians and grass where Dallas is taking sharp turns around a golf course road.
Ransom rolls Drive (Body): 3+1 = 4 vs. Dallas’ Drive (Speed): 4+0 = 4.
“The Direct Approach” is created as a fragile aspect.
Bale wanted to chain some maneuvers together but as Ransom’s assisting aspect is fragile, he’ll go for it now.
Bale tags “Direct Approach” to get within striking distance and fires!
Bale’s Guns: 3+1 = 4 vs. Dallas’ Drive: 4-1 = 3. Dallas tags “Fender Bender”, raises his result to 5, and Bale misses.
Dallas drives onto the golf course, scattering carts in his wake. He’s shaking pursuit, this time with a ballsy difficulty of 6!
Dallas rolls Drive (Speed): 4-3 =1 vs. DC6. EPIC FAIL.
Dallas takes 5 stress but will take a Mild consequence.
Dallas’ Stress: OXXX, Mild consequence “Battered Undercarriage”
Ransom rolls the same: 2-1 = 1 vs. DC6. ALSO EPIC FAIL.
He’s got to take a Severe consequence, and chooses “Riding on Rims”.
Ransom’s Stress: XXXX Mild “Fender Bender” (tagged), Severe “Riding on Rims”
Ransom Concedes after that. The SUV sits in a sand trap, digging itself ever deeper on shredded tires. Dallas’ wounded Chevelle limps back to the road and makes its getaway.
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Funny but that entire chase showed for me exactly why the body,speed and handling mechanics where lousy they just ended up being pointless complex.
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Heh. During the course of making those examples, I was completely sold on having some sort of Weapon value for the better vehicle. The rifle was just too good an advantage compared to using sideswipes and maneuvering.
The zone map came off as a little more tactical-feeling to me, but sterile. I also felt that while both approaches devolved into "let's roll Drive a lot", at least the chase with striking distance had a little more variety in what was being rolled to generate maneuvers.
And I do like the Speed/Body breakdown still, but what I'd probably do now is use the difference between them as Weapon or Armor value when appropriate.
I liked that driving a big pig of an SUV made Ransom's Drive skill worse, and that the relatively lower-skilled police officer was a threat because he was in the best vehicle, but I think Weapon/Armor bonuses will work better now and be less complicated.
I am definitely sold OFF of having any sort of Durability stress separate from Chase stress. It would drag things out way too long and when you'd apply one stress or the other is sometimes really vague.
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Mm.
The zoneless one seemed better.
I'd still rather use a more standard conflict though.
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Yeah, I'm not trying to convince anyone but myself at this point. :) People will either use something we've got here already or they'll use the parts to roll their own.
I like the bidding/shaking pursuit and I like striking distance, at the very least for a limiter against arbitrary firearm attacks. Maybe only requiring striking distance for non-Drive-based attacks, like Taran suggested is a good balance.