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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Colette on July 22, 2012, 07:56:14 AM

Title: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Colette on July 22, 2012, 07:56:14 AM
Hello, everyone. My character in my current Dresden Files RPG campaign has encountered a tremendous life crisis that offers one of two possible choices for her. (No, she is not a changeling.) I would like an outsider's perspective on what she should do in this situation, namely because right now, she actually is asking for outsiders' opinions on what she should do. She is at that much of a loss.

Before I describe the situation, there are a few things you should know about our game.

1.) Our game is currently at 42 skill points, a skill cap of Fantastic (+6), and a base refresh rate of 12. We have house ruled pure mortals into becoming just as useful as other characters at this level; a pure mortal who knocks their refresh rate down to 1 with stunts becomes a puissant polymath and factotum of numerous skills, and absolutely terrifying at making assessments, declarations, and maneuvers. Conversely, we have also toned down the ever-scaling power level of spellcasters in this game, with comprehensive fixes for evocation and thaumaturgy. This is not a thread to discuss this; I would just like to use that for context.

2.) My character is the daughter of arguably the richest person in the entire world, has built up a leviathan of an information and diplomacy network around her family, is "graduating high school at age 12" intelligent, and is a supremely, nigh-diplomancer-level speaker. So, in case anyone would like a reference point for how "normal" she is, there is that.

3.) In our game, Wizard's Constitution [-0] can make you live for several centuries. For someone with the potential to be a wizard, it is essentially tied to the Sight [-1]. Once someone who could be a wizard gains the Sight [-1], they gain Wizard's Constitution [-0], end of story.

4.) Our characters have done so much over the course of forty-six sessions, plus countless side sessions (easily about thirty or so by now). We have made the world supernaturally aware, and my character has started up what is now a titanic network of diplomacy and understanding between regular person and not-so-regular person.

5.) My character's boyfriend is a changeling. In our game, the Choice was a fae law-mandated thing rather than something biological, and it was a point that it was causing turmoil. We broke the necessity of it when we brought it up to the fae courts. For that matter, my character's changeling boyfriend also has the gift for wizardhood, and is so loyal to her that he might as well be her fiancee by now.

6.) We have done so much for the White Council that they are willing to train my character, my character's boyfriend, and my character's mother in wizardly abilities, and they do not have to be part of the White Council. No strings attached whatsoever. Also in our game, receiving full training from the White Council requires passing a test called the... "Wiseman's Words"? I do not think my GM ever explained why it was called that, and it definitely does not seem to be in the Dresden Files books.

7.) My character has an insane degree of magical potential. In game terms, what would be her key spellcasting skills are maximized (amongst other things), and in-universe, she has a near-flawless understanding of magical theory and an extremely finely-tuned third eye.

8.) In our game, wards take either magic or an extreme amount of mental concentration and finesse (i.e. Discipline) to break.

9.) In our game, mortal stunts can touch upon the supernatural... as long as they strictly affect supernatural effects that are already there. This can take the form of magic resistance, the ability to deflect or attract psychic assaults with sheer willpower, using existing alchemical potions to "fast-forward" one's attainment of mundane physical advancement, and honing one's third eye to a fine degree (but not to the level of the Sight).

10.) In our game, the "Night Wave" is a coalition of demons (and other assorted bad guys) that has served as the main antagonist group throughout the entire game. A "Nocnamora" is a psychic demonic construct wrought of dreams and doubts. Just as we have gathered allies all throughout the game, so has the Night Wave; they have Kemmlerites, Denarians, true dragons, and more on their side.

So, without further ado, here is my character's current situation.

~~~~~

(click to show/hide)

~~~~~

Poetic that she breaks the necessity of the Choice for her love, but she now has to make a Choice of her own, is it not?

On one hand, if she chooses to gain magic, when people look back at her story, they still see that that Agata's finish was becoming more than just a regular mortal. No matter what her family and her boyfriend says, it betrays the ideal. "Even with all that, you should be magical and live longer."

If she chooses to gain magic, despite all of the actions she has taken, people will look back at it and go, "In the end, she figured that it was better to be magical after all."

Six hundred years in the future, people could look at living Agata and go, "This is the person who helped change the world." Or, six hundred years in the future, people could read about dead Agata in the history books and go, "This is the person who helped change the world, and stood by their word and beliefs to the very end."

Who knows what could happen to her when she dies? She must have quite the afterlife waiting for her, and who would want to deny her that?

-----

... And now, it is time to defend gaining magic. (I have more written for this, but personally, I do not support it any more or less than refusing magic.)

"This is the person who helped change the world, and stood by their word and beliefs to the very end. And what a fool she was."

Sticking to one's beliefs diehard is not always a good idea. In fact, it leads to the downfall of many, because there is no guarantee whatsoever that those beliefs are sound. People develop, change, and realize, well, realities.

There is also the part where her beliefs are essentially, "You can live a good, happy life as a regular person." Note the "can." It does not take into account any of the special circumstances that one can encounter in their lives.

It is true that regular people can live good, happy lives, even without any supernatural powers. However, let us face it: supernatural powers are, in-universe, more or less a strict upgrade. They are not guaranteed to make you happier. But they can.

Do you know what that sounds like? Money.

It is like this. You can live as a good, happy life as a member of the lower class. Heck, you can even feel proud for setting that example. Suppose you win the lottery though, because you found a winning ticket off the street. Are you seriously, seriously going to go, "No, I will not take this money! I need to set an example for the lower class!"?

Another example, from ye olden times. Suppose a farmer leads a ragtag bunch of peasants against an attacking force, and manages to be a leader inspiring and awesome enough to actually win, proving that random peasants can be as charismatic as any noble. Then, he is offered nobility and the land he defended.

The above ye olden times scenario is like... why not, when it makes doing the same thing so much easier? It is not like he would turn his back on the common folk, as long as he remembered not to be a typical malicious noble. Not that hard. Same thing here; it is not as though she will have difficulty relating to normal people, given the current state of the supernaturally-aware world.

-----

For me, this is something that clearly has no right or wrong answer. Some group of people will be disappointed one way or another. But what would you, as an outsider, think of Agata's current situation here? What would you advise her to do, as someone who just read her tale?

I have spoken to five of my online acquaintances regarding this so far. Two went for "refuse magic" at first, another two decided on "accept magic," and the fifth could not decide. Four out of five eventually reached a point of "no right or wrong decision" after some discussion on the other side of the choice though.

What do you think, personally?
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 22, 2012, 09:58:37 AM
In my opinion? The better ending to this story would be for her to stick to her beliefs. (Besides, since mortals got boosted and wizards got nerfed, there may not be a big deal). Of course, I could certainly understand her dilemma - Hell, if I were your character, I'd learn magic. After all, its not like she's your average jane anyway...

End of the day, just do what you feel would make for a better story and play experience.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Taran on July 22, 2012, 02:01:16 PM
To quote Neil Young,

"It's better to burn out than to fade away".

Stay Mortal - Do Super Dangerous Important Things and take risks until they kill you.  Go out in a Flame of Glory!

Who needs to live forever anyways? You will be immortalized by your deeds.  Join the ranks of the Greatest Mortal Heroes in History.

Just my 2 cents.

PS.  Ignore the prophesy...you won't live to 110 if you don't want to.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Jimmy on July 23, 2012, 12:56:27 AM
Seems to me like this choice has always been open to you. You could have taken on the mantle of white council wizard at anytime, only now when you realise everyone you hold dear is doing it do you think you must make a choice? What do you give to the girl who has everything? More of something they already have? Why do you need to make the choice now? Why do you think it will change you? At the moment is just looks like a political move by the White Council, cashing in on your celebrity status so they can claim you as one of their own.

As far as sticking by your beliefs, I'm not sure exactly what they are. You say that you can lead a good normal life as a regular person when you've already told us you're anything but a regular person. Where is the distinction in regular in that case? Are you putting a low working class, always broke person (who just happens to be a wizard) above someone who has united two worlds? By your standards it appears you do. But what if that supernatural person was just born into it and just wants to watch reruns of Jeopardy and Stargate all the time? Just because they can talk to spirits and ghosts and throw lightning around doesn't mean they HAVE to, does it? They sound pretty regular to me.

On the other hand, you should be considering other questions, such as do you believe in achieving your potential or just setting an example of being happy with how you are? Self-improvement is a genetic disposition, in that it feeds evolution. Is being a Wizard self improvement? Sure it can be. But membership to that club is more than just a set of powers. It comes with other things not related to magic. Is pursuing those responsibilities going to change who you are? Doesn't sound like it to me.

To me it sounds like the reasons why you're undecided are fairly selfish or at least self motivated. Are you going to die of old age before your loved ones? Thats life, you should be used to that notion already. Ask any parent what they think about that. Are you worried that people are going to think you're a hypocrite for accepting? Think what they'll be saying if you don't and you get killed because you didn't have that tool at your disposal. Drop your vain reasons and stop wondering about why you should accept, and start thinking about why you shouldn't.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Colette on July 23, 2012, 02:15:37 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on July 23, 2012, 12:56:27 AM
At the moment is just looks like a political move by the White Council, cashing in on your celebrity status so they can claim you as one of their own.

To clarify point #6, the White Council is willing to train my character, my character's mother, and my character's lover all without requiring actually joining them. And indeed, the latter two are indeed not joining (because they have their own duties).

That is the degree to which the White Council trusts the three of them so far.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Jimmy on July 23, 2012, 02:58:13 AM
Still, the White Council being who they are wouldn't pass up an opportunity like that. They'd have some angle that may not be clear right now. If they do it to senior council members they'd certainly do it an 'outsider'. Power is power after all, and they hoard it as much as the next powerhungry byzantian draconic secret society. Look how many times Harry saved their arses and the treatment he gets. Look at Michael for that matter,
(click to show/hide)
But that shouldn't be the only thing stopping you. I know I'd try and shaft you on that aspect alone were I GM. ;)
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 23, 2012, 05:55:17 AM
Heh. Girl's got an ego on her. I suppose she deserves to, though.

There's really no right answer here from an IC perspective. I can't help.

From an OoC perspective, though, I think she probably should not become a wizard. Wizard powers are nice and all, but not necessarily worth 9 Refresh. (Especially not with houserules buffing mortals and nerfing wizards.) Learning those Powers will cost you much of what you're good at, and they might not be all that impressive if your character isn't built right.

PS: I'd be interested in seeing your houserules. Could I get a PM, if it's not too much trouble?
PPS: Sounds like a pretty fun game.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:18:59 AM
I'ld like a copy of the houserules, as well. They may be what my current group needs to get into the game.

Also, isn't the Wizard template worth 7 Refresh, not 9?
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Colette on July 23, 2012, 07:20:19 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 23, 2012, 05:55:17 AM
From an OoC perspective, though, I think she probably should not become a wizard. Wizard powers are nice and all, but not necessarily worth 9 Refresh. (Especially not with houserules buffing mortals and nerfing wizards.) Learning those Powers will cost you much of what you're good at, and they might not be all that impressive if your character isn't built right.

The GM will allow a complete rebuild by the time she becomes a wizard (if she chooses to), which should occur by our next refresh rate +2.

Being a wizard really takes only Evocation [-3], Thamaturgy [-3], the Sight [-1], Soulgaze [-0], and Wizard's Constitution [-0], making it a [-7] package all in all. We also removed specialties from the game entirely (we felt it was necessary, and though it makes different spellcasters more "same-y," we only have one in the party anyway, and it strongly encourages mixing it up with elements and thaumaturgy types), so, that would be just about the best you can be as a wizard anyway. The heavyweights of wizardkind just have higher skill caps for more Conviction, Discipline, and Lore.

That said, I do not wish to make the house rules a focus of this thread. I am really only concerned with the character development ramifications for my character here.

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 23, 2012, 05:55:17 AM
PS: I'd be interested in seeing your houserules. Could I get a PM, if it's not too much trouble?

Our house rules are in an embarrassingly unpresentable and seemingly incomplete state to visitors at the moment, so, no, you could not. My apologies.

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 23, 2012, 05:55:17 AM
PPS: Sounds like a pretty fun game.

Thank you. It is something we have worked very hard on.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Viatos on July 23, 2012, 07:25:51 AM
Burn your mortal bridges. No one else is saying it, so I will: what makes people special, unique, amazing? It's magic. True magic, the power to transcend mere mortality, the power not to lose your human nature but to redefine it.

Look, everything out there wants to put you in a box. Power source. Food. Toy. And they'll succeed, because where you can scrape the sky, they can rip down the stars around you. That's the hard truth. That's human destiny. Struggle, persevere...get something's attention, die.

Or is that the truth?

Being a wizard doesn't make you less. It makes you more. And the core of that, the core of all that power, is not fire or water or even thaumaturgy. It's self-definition. A wizard isn't some mystic alien that happens to look like a regular person at first. A wizard is a human being who says, human beings are mighty. You're not a power source, you're not food, you're not a toy, and you have the phenomenal cosmic power to back it up. You're right and your brother is wrong: you won't be the little girl who shone like a star rising against a supernatural night.

You will be a woman, a transcendent human being, a queen with a soul in bloom, and you will burn like the sun.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:30:28 AM
Quote from: Viatos on July 23, 2012, 07:25:51 AM
Burn your mortal bridges. No one else is saying it, so I will: what makes people special, unique, amazing? It's magic. True magic, the power to transcend mere mortality, the power not to lose your human nature but to redefine it.

Look, everything out there wants to put you in a box. Power source. Food. Toy. And they'll succeed, because where you can scrape the sky, they can rip down the stars around you. That's the hard truth. That's human destiny. Struggle, persevere...get something's attention, die.

Or is that the truth?

Being a wizard doesn't make you less. It makes you more. And the core of that, the core of all that power, is not fire or water or even thaumaturgy. It's self-definition. A wizard is a human who says, human beings are mighty. You're not a power source, you're not food, you're not a toy, and you have the phenomenal cosmic power to back it up. You're right and your brother is wrong: you won't be the little girl who shone like a star rising against a supernatural night.

You will be a woman, a transcendent human being, a queen with a soul in bloom, and you will burn like the sun.

This is my personal take on magic. But plenty of people will make the argument that being a wizard means that you are a supernatural creature, and thus not truly human anymore. Which is what the OP means, I believe.

Also, in the DV, magical potential is apparently determined by bloodline, and if you lack an inborn talent, you'll only ever be able to do the most minor of spells. So, yeah, it's rife with unfortunate implications.

Possibly off-tangent here, but I once read an interesting theory that claims Wizards are in fact Scions of the god of magic/wisdom, or similar entities. So there's that, as well.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Viatos on July 23, 2012, 07:32:52 AM
Quote from: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:30:28 AM
This is my personal take on magic. But plenty of people will make the argument that being a wizard means that you are a supernatural creature, and thus not truly human anymore. Which is what the OP means, I believe.

I am strongly against this interpretation. To my understanding, a wizard is simply the pinnacle of what a human soul can accomplish, a strength of will and identity so powerful she can rewrite the foundational principles of the universe at her convenience. She's human+.

And she won't be just another wizard with powers, either. Her legend won't start with "The wizard who...". Her legend will start with her name. This is important. This is everything. You are never one more. You are one of a kind.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
How do you account for the fact that magical potential is determined by bloodline?
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Viatos on July 23, 2012, 07:41:56 AM
Quote from: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
How do you account for the fact that magical potential is determined by bloodline?

I dunno, dude, some stuff is determined by bloodline.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
Aren't those views contradictory?
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Viatos on July 23, 2012, 08:02:09 AM
Quote from: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:57:26 AM
Aren't those views contradictory?

Not really. Magical potential is hardly the only area of talent subject to bloodline. If it's a problem, here's a cool idea: learn Thaumaturgy. Work on rituals to develop magical potential. Start supercharging the human race. Bloodline is hardly the only factor, either.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 11:17:41 AM
Ah, well. I'll say we've reached the very limits of what could be discussed, with our current knowledge of the DV, so I'll concede this argument. That said, a magical ritual to increase your magical power feels kinds screwy to me.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Viatos on July 23, 2012, 01:22:36 PM
Quote from: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 11:17:41 AM
Ah, well. I'll say we've reached the very limits of what could be discussed, with our current knowledge of the DV, so I'll concede this argument. That said, a magical ritual to increase your magical power feels kinds screwy to me.

Not your magical power. Something like drawing off a leyline to saturate the local geomancy, ensuring pregnancies carried to term locally have a higher natural affinity.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 23, 2012, 06:56:29 PM
Quote from: Colette on July 23, 2012, 07:20:19 AM
Being a wizard really takes only Evocation [-3], Thamaturgy [-3], the Sight [-1], Soulgaze [-0], and Wizard's Constitution [-0], making it a [-7] package all in all. We also removed specialties from the game entirely (we felt it was necessary, and though it makes different spellcasters more "same-y," we only have one in the party anyway, and it strongly encourages mixing it up with elements and thaumaturgy types), so, that would be just about the best you can be as a wizard anyway. The heavyweights of wizardkind just have higher skill caps for more Conviction, Discipline, and Lore.

Those Powers will cost you 9 Refresh, though, since you'll lose your Pure Mortal bonus.

Anyway, without specializations and foci I don't think magic is worthwhile. Not powerful enough. (Do you still have foci? It sounds like you don't...)

Quote from: Colette on July 23, 2012, 07:20:19 AM
Our house rules are in an embarrassingly unpresentable and seemingly incomplete state to visitors at the moment, so, no, you could not. My apologies.

Pity.

Quote from: Colette on July 23, 2012, 07:20:19 AM
Thank you...

You're very welcome.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Colette on July 24, 2012, 12:05:28 PM
Now that I have received some outsiders' perspectives and opinions (which, by the way, I am quite grateful for), I believe now would be a fair time to point out that by "graduates high school at age 12," I mean that my character is currently 12 years and 3 months old.

(click to show/hide)

Does that change anything with regards to her decision? Should she wait until she is older to make the choice? From what my GM has ruled and implied, the younger the choice is made, the more effective the stretching-out of lifespan will be. I am uncertain if it works like that in the actual Dresdenverse.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 24, 2012, 02:04:50 PM
...Huh.

Well, how mature do you want to portray her as? Though to be honest, I don't see how age would impact the decision.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: ways and means on July 24, 2012, 02:18:15 PM
Quote from: Locnil on July 23, 2012, 07:37:34 AM
How do you account for the fact that magical potential is determined by bloodline?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Colette on July 24, 2012, 02:39:08 PM
Quote from: Locnil on July 24, 2012, 02:04:50 PM
...Huh.

Well, how mature do you want to portray her as? Though to be honest, I don't see how age would impact the decision.

Her Discipline is abnormally high, so I use that as a justification for acting more mature than most preteens, but I have been having her be more emotionally pained by this matter more so than anything else that has ever come before.

As for age, some of my acquaintances have suggested waiting until her twenties to acquire Wizard's Constitution [-0], so as to give her time to think.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 25, 2012, 02:29:58 AM
Quote from: ways and means on July 24, 2012, 02:18:15 PM
(click to show/hide)

Um, yes, that was what I meant...?  :-\ Though we don't know that Maggie is going to be a wizard.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: mithrandirthewhite on July 25, 2012, 08:09:39 AM
Quote
To quote Neil Young,

"It's better to burn out than to fade away".

Quote
Burn your mortal bridges. No one else is saying it, so I will: what makes people special, unique, amazing? It's magic. True magic, the power to transcend mere mortality, the power not to lose your human nature but to redefine it.

Look, everything out there wants to put you in a box. Power source. Food. Toy. And they'll succeed, because where you can scrape the sky, they can rip down the stars around you. That's the hard truth. That's human destiny. Struggle, persevere...get something's attention, die.

Or is that the truth?

Being a wizard doesn't make you less. It makes you more. And the core of that, the core of all that power, is not fire or water or even thaumaturgy. It's self-definition. A wizard isn't some mystic alien that happens to look like a regular person at first. A wizard is a human being who says, human beings are mighty. You're not a power source, you're not food, you're not a toy, and you have the phenomenal cosmic power to back it up. You're right and your brother is wrong: you won't be the little girl who shone like a star rising against a supernatural night.

You will be a woman, a transcendent human being, a queen with a soul in bloom, and you will burn like the sun.

Heh.

As for what i would say with limited understanding of the character and almost none existent understanding of the game, i would say take up the power since it will be another tool for which to use, unless that compromises your character build.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Locnil on July 25, 2012, 12:09:56 PM
Come to think of it, does a wizard still cause hexing? If so, that's probably a good reason not to do it.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: Colette on July 25, 2012, 01:16:07 PM
Quote from: Locnil on July 25, 2012, 12:09:56 PM
Come to think of it, does a wizard still cause hexing? If so, that's probably a good reason not to do it.

Our GM subscribes to the theory that hexing is caused by discomfort with technology. Supposedly, wizards who take the effort to keep up with technology, understanding it and accepting it, do not cause hexing at all. This is much easier for wizards born in the Information Age, given the current culture surrounding technology. Wizards who hex can be rehabilitated into a non-hexing state by giving them education on technology and why it is not scary.
Title: Re: An in-game crisis between pure mortality and supernaturalhood (not a changeling)
Post by: amberpup on July 25, 2012, 03:23:44 PM
Quote from: Colette on July 24, 2012, 02:39:08 PM
Her Discipline is abnormally high, so I use that as a justification for acting more mature than most preteens, but I have been having her be more emotionally pained by this matter more so than anything else that has ever come before.

As for age, some of my acquaintances have suggested waiting until her twenties to acquire Wizard's Constitution [-0], so as to give her time to think.

While I haven't read the whole thread, I would have to say.... go for it! You're freaking 12, even if you have a high discipline. Look to Ivy, if you need any hints. I mean, wait till you're twenty.. that's like forever when you're 12. I still remember (and I'm 51) when I was nine, and I was at my grandmother's house and saw my uncle on his way to the bathroom after a late shift and thinking how old he looked..... and he was 27 back then.

Youth is when you make bad decisions, and take risks.

Kids should do dumb things ever once and a while, even if they know better!