ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: RevengeofTim on June 05, 2012, 11:54:39 PM
-
Hey there.
I have a duel against one of the four knaves, a group of sidhe who are above the knights, below the ladies. He's a winterborn, spellcaster and social character, while I am an evocator.
It's most likely to the death, a duel of energy, and the adjudicator is utterly neutral. Unfortunately, I'm 10 refresh, he's 13 or so.
My character:
William Wescott
High Concept: Warlock in Remission
Trouble: I hate you, Wescott!
Evocation [-3], The Sight [-1],Wizard's Constitution [-0], Soulgaze [-0], Lawbreaker-1st [-1],
Adjusted Refresh: 3
Been Around a Long Long Year
Magic doesn't solve my problems
Bad Deaths For Good Reasons
The burned hand teaches best
Abandoned by the Abyss
Skills:
Superb Weapons
Great Conviction
Great Discipline
Good Endurance
Good Lore
Fair Alertness
Fair Athletics
Fair Intimidation
Average Rapport
Average Scholarship (Latin)
Average Empathy
Average Deceit
Stunts and Magic:
Evocation Speciality: Water control +1
Elements: Water, Wind, Spirit
No Pain, No gain
Infuriate
3 free rote slots
Water Staff Foci: +2 Offensive Water Control
Stress
Physical: O O O O (+2 mild consequences)
Mental: O O O O
Social: O O
Information I know:
Barry Gelida
High concept "One of the four sidhe Knaves"
Trouble "The moon is just the sun at night"
Moonlight Shadow
Heart of ice
mind of ice
soul of ice
"Hey babe, Need ice with that?"
Epic Crafting
Fantastic Discipline, Deceit
Superb Empathy, Lore, Presence
Great Conviction, Rapport
Good Contacts, Alertness
Fair Athletics, Intimidation
Average Weapons, Endurance
physical OOO
mental OOOOOO (armour one vs mental stress)
social OOOO (plus one additional mild concequence)
Powers
Greater Glamours -4
Unseelie magic -4
Marked by power -1 (the winter court)
Thaumaturgy (specialised in crafting) -3
Inhuman Stoicism [-2]
Description: Your mind is abnormally stout, withstanding far more abuse then the average human.
Musts: No protection against self-inflicted attacks or stress is provided. You must attach this power to an appropriate mental Catch (page YS:185).
Skills Affected: Conviction (page YS:124), other mental skills.
Effects:
Hard to Twist. You naturally have Armor:1 against all mental stress.
Hard to Break. You have two additional boxes of mental stress capacity.
Physical Immunity (cold)-3
the catch Cold iron +3
soul gaze -1
I've never tried fighting another practitioner one on one, especially not one with seemings and greater glamours. I'm going to try to get a crafter in the party to make me a potion that will let me see through glamours, and I'm wearing chainmail. What sort of spells should I throw, should I defend first, should I pile manouevers on myself pre-duel? Please help me stomp a faerie into the ground. Oh, and if it'll convince you, the duel was solely because I kept infuriating him. Every time he said 'I see' I made it sound like he'd made a pun on 'icy' and made him sound like he was making awful puns. I love being compelled. :D
-
I suggest looking over the part of the series in which Dresden fought his duel against the RCV. I don't recall the details, but a major consideration was the selection of 'weapons'. It seems to me that you desperately want this fight to be with mundane melee weapons if at all possible (and not with magic or willpower) because that's where your edge lies. He is weak in weapons, and weak physically in general.
Other than that ... well, any chance you might convince the summer court to (temporarily) sponsor you in the form of borrowed summer magic?
-
Random aside: a mental version of toughness with a Catch of iron worth +3? Your opponent is cheating.
I hope your table doesn't allow characters to cast spells "for free" due to mental armor, or to use the extra stress boxes to fuel spells.
-
should I pile manouevers on myself pre-duel?
I think this is a very important part. But not only on yourself, declarations and assessments can be crucial here. If you can figure out any weaknesses your opponent has before the duel, the better you can exploit them.
Oh, and you might want to try keeping up on those insults. If you infuriate him in the pre duel banter and he has to take mental consequences there, he won't be able to use those consequence slots in the duel itself.
You might want to get some sort of ointment like Harry did in Summer Knight, so you can see through his glamour. That can easily be done by a potion, and depending on your GM, that can be a maneuver invoked for effect, or a block against deception. That alone would rob him of 4 points of refresh to use against you.
If the duel is not yet set as an energy duel, maybe you can negotiate out of that and get him to fight you with weapons. You'll definitely have a better chance there.
If not, I think heat would be the best way to attack, since he seems to be solely build around the "ice" concept. You could do this with air (friction) water (entropy) or spirit (light/laser), if any of that fits your character. Though Becq is right, a sponsor from summer would work wonders here.
Another idea: Put down an aspect like "entropy adjustment" and tag it for effect, so no more spells will be possible that involve shifting heat around. This should render most if not all of his spells useless, and you can take him down with air and pure force attacks. That is if your GM allows the use of that aspect like this. Would be easier with a fire aspect, but since you don't use fire, we need to get creative.
Random aside: a mental version of toughness with a Catch of iron worth +3? Your opponent is cheating.
I'd read it so that it would be for the Physical immunity. Though it is written rather strangely.
-
If you have time, investigate his weaknesses. Get your friends to help if possible. But don't forget to simply do one or more Assessments as you start...not only will they tell you something about the guy, you'll also get free tags. Use Declarations - a lot. Every action if you're creative enough (or simply plan ahead).
Target weakness, use Sight or a potion to negate Glamours, and if you have Earth magic, infuse your spells with 'cold iron' (good declaration fodder).
-
I'd read it so that it would be for the Physical immunity. Though it is written rather strangely.
Well, the Inhuman Stoicism mentions that a Catch must be taken (ie, it was cut-n-pasted from Inhuman Toughness), and there's only one Catch listed.
But say you're right, then I'll still point out that a -3 refresh power can't benefit from +3 worth of Catch.
-
If the character has any stronger allies he could invoke the right of the challenged (if he didn't start the duel) to call on the aid of a champion instead.
-
I suggest looking over the part of the series in which Dresden fought his duel against the RCV. I don't recall the details, but a major consideration was the selection of 'weapons'. It seems to me that you desperately want this fight to be with mundane melee weapons if at all possible (and not with magic or willpower) because that's where your edge lies. He is weak in weapons, and weak physically in general.
Other than that ... well, any chance you might convince the summer court to (temporarily) sponsor you in the form of borrowed summer magic?
The former is already chosen, we're fighting with energy first, weapons if he refuses. The latter I'm going to try and do. Oh and if we get to weapons, everything goes to hell. He has three items of power, currently bound to his changeling buddies. If we go weapons, he gets them back. And becomes around 18-20 refresh.
Random aside: a mental version of toughness with a Catch of iron worth +3? Your opponent is cheating.
I hope your table doesn't allow characters to cast spells "for free" due to mental armor, or to use the extra stress boxes to fuel spells.
The ability clearly states you can't use it for self inflicted stress, thankfully.
Tl;dr enemy has three IoP he can call upon if we go weapons, potion to negate glamours is cool, entropy magic affecting heat is also cool, trying to borrow summer fire is also cool. Pile on assessments, declarations and manoeuvres. Anything else I should keep in mind?
-
It occurs to me that since you're stuck with energy (which you are weaker than he at), you might make use of your water specialty to play havoc with his magic, shorting it out.
-
He has Fair Athletics, 3 physical stress boxes, and no Toughness worth mentioning.
Just kill him. One spell ought to do it, if you're willing to take some stress. Especially if you get a taggable Aspect from some pre-fight meditation.
The hard parts will probably be A) seeing through Glamours and B) winning initiative.
For the former, you have The Sight. Which will hurt, but oh well.
For the latter, you can invoke an Aspect for +2 initiative. I think.
(Honestly, I'm not totally sure that that's legal. But I'd allow it.)
PS: No Pain No Gain now only gives 1 consequence. This was changed late in the game's development, as I understand it, and some people were given the old version.
-
Yeah, I think the way to go about this is
1) Try to get a few taggable aspects before the fight. Assessments or declarations are good. Also are their other PC's that can help? They might be able to throw some in. If you have a thaumaturgist they can provide lost of aspects on you via thaumaturgy. 3 or 4 shifts of complexity per aspect? If everyone even just contributes minor consequences that is probably 3 or 4 aspects.
2) Can you get any compels before the fight? Extra FP is always good.
2) WIN INITIATIVE! This guy will hit hard you might be able to take be able to survive a hit from him, but it will start giving consequences which he can tag and go down hill from their. If you can't win initiative do your best to avoid consequences.
3) Shoot a 6 shift attack in his face. At 7 acc/6 weapon he takes an average of 11 stress. Unless you know he can't take extreme consequences 12 shifts is a good amount of damage to boost the damage to with tags. It forces him to take two consequences, giving you two tags. If he can't take extreme consequences tag aspects until you get 16 shifts of damage.
4) You should have FP, consequences and pre-set up aspects to dodge his next attack.
5) Finish him, he should only have 12 shifts worth of consequences left so a 16 shift of damage attack will kill him.
-
Another tactic might be to lose initiative. Take some consequences that you can use to generate emotions, then invoke them to boost your return shot. Not that you would have to invoke, not tag (he'll own the tags). Interestingly enough, aspects can only be used once each on a given roll, so if you invoke them to boost your roll, your foe can't tag them to cancel out (at least, not on that roll).
I think this is legit; Harry does it routinely.
-
Invoking consequences is totally kosher, but I'd call shenanigans on anyone who tried to block tags by doing so.
I'm pretty sure that attack rolls and defence rolls count separately for the once/roll invocation limit.
Anyway, I looked at the enemy stats again and noticed Thaumaturgy with a Crafting specialization. He'll probably have an enchanted item defence.
Which will make your job much harder. See if you can steal it or have it declared illegal before the fight starts.
-
Invoking consequences is totally kosher, but I'd call shenanigans on anyone who tried to block tags by doing so.
Blocking tags by invoking consequences is totally kosher too. It's totally legit. It was one of the things that immediately apparent to me when I read that section of the rules.
-
I think you're wrong. Partly because it creates the headache of who gets to invoke first, partly because the only actual restriction on invoking the same aspect repeatedly that I can find says:
...you can't use the same aspect more than once on the same roll or action...
I don't see why that should have any effect on other people's actions.
-
I think you're wrong. Partly because it creates the headache of who gets to invoke first, partly because the only actual restriction on invoking the same aspect repeatedly that I can find says:
I don't see why that should have any effect on other people's actions.
The person who can invoke it first does so.
And I am not sure what is the issue you are having with what you have quoted.
-
What I've quoted says you can't invoke an aspect twice on a roll.
It doesn't say that an aspect can't be invoked twice on a roll.
You claim that the latter is the case, but so far as I can tell this is supported by nothing.
And who can invoke first? Whichever player shouts faster?
-
What I've quoted says you can't invoke an aspect twice on a roll.
It doesn't say that an aspect can't be invoked twice on a roll.
You claim that the latter is the case, but so far as I can tell this is supported by nothing.
And who can invoke first? Whichever player shouts faster?
Oh, I see. So while a player cannot invoke an Aspect twice, 2 different players may invoke the same Aspect twice for the same roll? Is this what you are saying?
Isn't the usual restrictions on Aspect invoking sufficient? You got to have the FP to spend and you got to know the Aspect is there. I suppose if both players have opposing agendas and it is a PvP situation and you have to adjudicate on who gets the invoke first, I'd go with the player whose character's turn it is or if it is neither, then the character with higher Alertness/initiative.
-
I think you're wrong. Partly because it creates the headache of who gets to invoke first, partly because the only actual restriction on invoking the same aspect repeatedly that I can find says:
I don't see why that should have any effect on other people's actions.
Kinda agree with you but it doesn't really matter. You can't invoke to subtract, only to add. So you'll always be adding to a different roll. Attacker invokes to add to Fists, Defender invokes to add to Athletics...two different rolls. Rinse and repeat.
Edit: Not really sure how you'd invoke a consequence to help in many cases anyway. Seems an edge case at best.
-
Yet more useful info!
As a note, he's a city face, so joy of joys he has the full consequence track, including extreme.
Can someone help me by coming up with the best 'opener' damage spell? Let's assume I win initiative, what do I throw that either puts him down, or places the fight firmly in my favour?
-
Well, the crafting bonus is, as Sanctaphrax already said, going to be a problem. It is at least an 8 shift block, but I would calculate with a 10 shift block to be on the safe side.
To get him in 1 exchange, you will have to hit all his consequences (20] + his block (10) + physical stress track (3) +1 to make him fall over = 34 shifts of damage. If you go all out, you can get 14 of that by taking massive amounts of casting stress (2+2+4+6). 4 conviction gives us a 17 shift spell, which must be controlled by another 17 shifts on a discipline roll, and we are precisely at 34 shifts. Now lets take a worst case scenario of a -4 roll, which will get you down to +4 with foci and lawbreaker (this is calculated for water, since it is your best element). That would mean, you'd need at least 7 aspects to tag or fate points to invoke to kill him with one enormous blast of however you employ your water magic. Not taking into account, that he might be able to spend fate points of his own, in which case you will be absolutely screwed using this tactic.
The way I'd try to do it would be to shut him down first. Get some of his hair or other symbolic links. It will make it significantly easier to shut down his magic. Like I said before, with that many "ice" aspects, he is probably going to attack mainly (if not entirely) with ice attacks. If you lock down the entropy in the arena, he will no longer be able to shift around any heat, and since cold is the absence of heat, he will not be able to form any ice spells to throw against you. Even magic has to oblige physics at some point. After that, he can flail his arms, but he is pretty much dead in the water (pun intended).
If you have enough time before going into the duel, you could try to make a potion that will let you reflect his attacks. Since the item is specifically designed to reflect his spells at a specific location, you can get all kind of aspects to improve the potions power (dirt from the arena, hair from your opponent, a piece of something that has been hurt or destroyed by his magic, a snowflake for the element he uses, and so on). I use potion here as the catch-all word for one-use magic items, it can be a voodoo doll, a wristband, a carved stick, a scroll, pretty much anything. If you are able to sneak it in, better for you.
If you can go first, either stall and let him throw the first punch (to reflect his spell and then use your action to finish him), or use it to maneuver, just in case.
-
The block might only be six shifts...it's hard to tell.
But he might also have an armour item on underneath it.
Regardless, there's not much to this. Just crank the accuracy and the weapon rating as high as possible on your first attack, and try to inflict some taggable consequences.
-
The way I'd try to do it would be to shut him down first. Get some of his hair or other symbolic links. It will make it significantly easier to shut down his magic. Like I said before, with that many "ice" aspects, he is probably going to attack mainly (if not entirely) with ice attacks. If you lock down the entropy in the arena, he will no longer be able to shift around any heat, and since cold is the absence of heat, he will not be able to form any ice spells to throw against you. Even magic has to oblige physics at some point. After that, he can flail his arms, but he is pretty much dead in the water (pun intended).
A distinct lack of thaumaturgy for our hero. If he had thaumaturgy this would be easier. A day before the duel all your friends contribute their minor consequence slots, make declarations, and cast a spell a nice tough buff spell on our hero. Then do something for a scene so those consequences can be recovered. Then repeat. Do this as many times as you can manage before boredom sets in. Also note, with a mass version of the lay on hands spell, moderate consequences can be contributed as well.
Of course, if he has a friendly wizard on his side, he should totally have him do that for him. The a modified spell version of the stimulant potion would be great; no tagging consequences for the enemy. Bunch of aspects to tag... maybe even take out the hero and grant him immunity to winter magic. (Although it would cost him 4 fate points)
-
Who picked this fight? I'm curious.
-
Who picked this fight? I'm curious.
He Dresdened the fight:
the duel was solely because I kept infuriating him. Every time he said 'I see' I made it sound like he'd made a pun on 'icy' and made him sound like he was making awful puns. I love being compelled.
-
So he picked the fight without officially picking it?
Sort of egged the other guy on until he wanted to throw down?
-
That was my take based on his post. Which would make the Icy guy the aggrieved/challenger.
-
Looking at the stats as given I would turned down the challenge.
-
Looking at the stats as given I would turned down the challenge.
I'm not entirely sure how turning down a 'legal' challenge is, under the Accords. It might mean that the character in question no longer benefits from any of the Accord's (occasionally dubious) protections.
-
Looking at the stats as given I would turned down the challenge.
Our GM would eat us alive for reacting to someone based on his stats in character.
ON THE GOOD NEWS: Barry Galida lost that duel hard.
I won initiative, but my first attacks targetting was so bad, I let it flop rather than wasting aspects and fate on it.
Then he hit me with a Weapon:6 zone attack. (a rote of his) But I managed to only take 4 stress.
The fight continued from there.
I took a lot of stress, a few consequences, but he got hit with 20+ shifts of damage for being overconfident.
Also, hilariously, he created 7 duplicates. 4 seemings out in the open, and 3 veiled seemings.
I took some stress opening the sight, then blew him away and broke the Armour:4 item of power armour he was wearing. Apparently unbreakable means unbreakable until you throw Weapon:10 entropy magic at it.
Oh and I forced an aspect change from 'Soul of Ice' (the armour name) to 'In my Soul, I Hate William Wescott'.
Not that this will backfire at all.
Oh and I provoked him into challenging me, so that I could pick the weapons. (Energy) rather than Skill, in which he would have had an IoP magic sword, IoP Armour:4 which improves seemings, and an IoP staff that deals mental stress. Except one of the Summer Knaves broke his sword earlier. And now I've broken his armour. So he's looking pretty angry right now.
Thank you very much for your help guys, I'm not sure it would have been possible without your vast wizardly intellects!
-
So now you have a powerful Fae enemy who wants to see your entrails stewed up for a snack! May you live in interesting times... :)
-
So now you have a powerful Fae enemy who wants to see your entrails stewed up for a snack! May you live in interesting times... :)
List of people who hate Wescott;
Barry Galida, Knave beaten in duel
Aldridge Forscythe, Utterly insane wizard, for general opposition, and helping blow him up.
Jack Napier, Necromancer who just won't die, for killing him twice.
Adoni, supernatural bartender, for bringing Warden's to the arse end of nowhere, australia
Francessa Drake, former changeling, now mortal, for slashing a sword across her face to revenge an identical injury to a party member
Palamon or whatever his name is; demon, slain/banished with two sword strikes. Bears the extreme consequence 'I hate William Wescott'
Ducard; demon, former party member, helped banish him.
Saul Frederick; Galida's bodyguard, is a short tempered idiot anyway.
Roberta King; likewise
Pamela Hart; Napier's wife, dead, helped kill her. Member of House Amon of the White Court.
I'm probably forgetting someone. I'm such a loveable guy! Former Warlock, now dating a knight of the cross. I'll be doing well if I survive to live in interesting times!
-
I'd say your times are interesting enough already ;D
You could try to lure them into one place and let them fight out who gets to kill you. If you're lucky, it will reduce your list of enemies quite a bit. I not, they will team up and your toast before you can say "interesting times".
-
Bah, your enemy list only goes up to ten. You need an enemy list that goes up to eleven!
-
Bah, your enemy list only goes up to ten. You need an enemy list that goes up to eleven!
For best result I recommend over 9000.
-
Congratulations.
-
Congrats.
Glad it went well.
I don't think players should metagame that much either.
It was my opinion after seeing the two characters and a little tiny bit of snark.
To clarify what I meant: I feel accepting the challenge was foolhardy.
The guy had to have a reputation you could have based that opinion on.
However, I am assuming you were playing your character well and said character would have accepted.
In hindsight, it semed to work out fine, but I would have been putting my money on the Knave. I also would have lost that money.
-
If you wanted to avoid having another enemy you could have just killed him. Thats what I did every time I had a duel with my pyromancer when I played with myu old group.
-
If you wanted to avoid having another enemy you could have just killed him. Thats what I did every time I had a duel with my pyromancer when I played with myu old group.
Then you end up with blood feuds with the enemy's entire family/clan/faction, instead... :)