I'd just give him ritual:crafting and flavor it as "Oh hey, look what I found" instead of "Oh hey, look what I made."
However I think there may be a power for this in the custom powers thread. Sancta or Umbra will know more.
As an upgrade, the character got Modular Abilities linked to an item of power (or in this case a collection of items of power), to offset the 2 refresh charge for being able to change his powers. So he has a [-1] "collection of magic artifacts", which allows him to take up any (well, within reason and if the GM, me, agrees) power worth 1 refresh. So far, it has been used for a magnifying glass with the Psychometry power and a phoenix shell amulet with supernatural recovery (the catch brought it down to a cost of 1 refresh) to safe an npc from dying.
I've got a character like that in a campaign I'm running, and we are started modeling this with refinement. The character takes refinement for the enchanted item slots (4 slots per refresh spent), and their power is based on his contacts skill instead of lore (without a stunt). They can model a wide range of effects, though some limits can be enforced by compelling the corresponding aspect.
Haru, if I can get 4 enchanted item slots with Refinement, why would I ever buy Ritual (Crafting)?
And like GryMor said, without some casting power, you have no way of boosting their power in any way, which can be a huge disadvantage.
You guys keep saying this, but I don't see any RAW support. If someone has enchanted items then I don't see any reason in the rules that they can't use those items in every way possible. I guess I understand if that's just a further part of your houserules, but it seems odd that you would expect us to know that.
Nothing should be strictly better than anything else. That's one of the most basic rules of balance.Again I have to ask you: around what exactly do you want to balance those things?
In a number of non-contrived situations, your suggestion is strictly better than Ritual (Crafting).You're saying that about a lot of things, and I just don't see it. Ritual gives you the same number of enchanted items, but
Again I have to ask you: around what exactly do you want to balance those things?
1) You can use them almost indefinitely, as long as you can spend mental stress to power them again
2) You can upgrade with focus items on additional refinement to get more bang for your bucks
3) Leave open a potion slot, and you can brew up a potion for the problem at hand, while the other guy is limited to what his magic-item-guy can get him
The sum total of the game's material.I'm sorry, but that doesn't really tell me anything. I think I know what you mean, but still, how do you decide what is balanced and what is not? At the moment I feel your arguments to be rather arbitrary, which I am sure they are not, but I can't follow.
Nothing else you can balance around, if you're doing it right.
1 is sometimes also true with your idea, since a character with it might be a practitioner.1) This version is explicitly done for a character who is not a caster. If he where, he would have to have at least one casting power. This is for the adventurer who has a wizard friend who helps him fight the things that go bump at night. I would never allow the mental stress thing without the character being a practitioner of some sort, because I agree with you there, that would be too much.
2 is not always important, since many characters don't refine their abilities much.
3 is not in fact true. The potion Declaration thing is based on retroactively having made the potion, not around making it quickly. There's no reason that it should be impossible with your idea. Unless you want to make it so, in which case you should do so.
This all sort of beside the point though. The whole "better than Ritual (Crafting)" thing is just a way of illustrating that this is more powerful than 1 Refresh should be.Then tell me, how powerful should it be for 1 refresh? Ok, that sounds more bitchy than it is meant, I really just want to know what you would be willing to grant for 1 refresh.
1 is sometimes also true with your idea, since a character with it might be a practitioner.
2 is not always important, since many characters don't refine their abilities much.
This all sort of beside the point though. The whole "better than Ritual (Crafting)" thing is just a way of illustrating that this is more powerful than 1 Refresh should be.
I'm sorry, but that doesn't really tell me anything. I think I know what you mean, but still, how do you decide what is balanced and what is not? At the moment I feel your arguments to be rather arbitrary, which I am sure they are not, but I can't follow.
First, you have to memorize most of the ruleset, which is easier than it sounds but still not easy. Then look at what each new Power or Stunt offers and compare it to what's available. If it's significantly better or worse, it's not balanced.I usually do the latter until I reach the former, so we pretty much do the same, only to reach different conclusions.
(Either that or look things up obsessively.)
If that fails, break it down into number of shifts and look at how frequently those shifts can be used. See how many stunts it's worth. Then see if buying the effect with stunts would be optimal. Compare to other Powers and Stunts from there.I usually try to break bigger powers down into 1 shift powers to help me understand them. It is not always possible, and often enough, a 3 refresh power is worth more than 3 1 refresh powers. Evocation for example gives you significantly more than Channeling + Refinement. Channeling on the other hand is exactly worth 2 refinements, 1 for the element, 1 for the items.
You should really post a proper writeup for this Power.How does that sound:
The problem with what you have here is that it offers the buy-in of Crafting for free. Making enchanted items costs 1 Refresh, then you buy enchanted items 4 at a time for 1 Refresh each. That's how Ritual (Crafting) works.Like I said before, I see a value in crafting over only enchanted items that makes up for the 1 refresh it costs more.
This lets you bypass that buy-in, so that you can just buy items. This is inferior for people with large amounts of Refresh that they wish to use on items, but superior for everyone else. Also, it lets you use whatever skill you please for free. Can't ignore that.Yes, that's precisely the point. It is meant for a mortal that wants a little edge, nothing more. If it makes you feel better, I can add a requirement, that the character may not take up any other powers along with this one, so it really only fits this little niche.
Being able to prepare four one-use stunts is pretty awesome, especially since enchanted items are less limited than stunts. I'd pick a coat that provides a (Contacts) block 4 (or 7 depending on how you read) times/session over any defensive stunt if my Athletics was low and my Contacts was peaked.Sure, you can do that, you would get 4 contacts blocks (lets even make them work reactively) for 1 refresh. You could also take a stunt that lets you use contacts as your goto dodge skill (well... ok, contacts might be a bit iffy here, I admit, but lets stay with it for now). With the stunt you can use your contacts skill indefinitely, and you can boost it with aspects if need be. A block from an enchanted item is always at a fixed value.
If I were writing this, I'd make a Contacts or Resources stunt that lets you obtain enchanted items with a roll at a difficulty set by the GM. Unreliability seems appropriate for an ability like this.I would always treat this as a power, since the character concept is based on the supernatural. And if the skill is high enough, there should be no problem in pretty much always getting the desired item. Randomness is well and good, but not if a characters high concept is depending on it.
Bag of Tricks [-1]
Description:
You are not a wizard (or are but unable or unwilling to create magical items), but know someone who can provide you with a few magical trinkets for you to use.
Skills affected: Contacts
Effects:
Enchanted items:
You gain 4 enchanted items, each at a power equal to your contacts skill. These enchanted items can each store one action that can usually be stored in an enchanted item. Bonuses to crafting never apply to these items. Each item can only be used once per session, no exceptions. Using any of these items counts as an action in a conflict. You must decide the spell embedded into the items when taking the power. You can switch out these spells at any milestone (if you can get to your source at that particular moment).
Bigger bag [-1]
Description:
You have a few more items in your bag of tricks.
Musts:
You must have the Bag of Tricks power above.
Effects:
More trinkets:
You gain 4 additional enchanted items.
First, this limits the power to 8 items for 2 refresh, more would definitely be pushing it. Second, it should be absolutely clear, that the power of those items is limited to the value of the skill. If anything is left unclear,
Now there can be different versions for multiple skills:
Bag of Tricks [-1]
Description:
You know where to buy a few magical trinkets for you to use.
Skills affected: Ressources
Bag of Tricks [-1]
Description:
You know where you can steal a few magical trinkets for you to use.
Skills affected: Burglary
Yes, that's precisely the point. It is meant for a mortal that wants a little edge, nothing more. If it makes you feel better, I can add a requirement, that the character may not take up any other powers along with this one, so it really only fits this little niche.
I don't see the part about using another skill as not that important here, since it is a "power", not a stunt, they can be a bit more flexible. I said it somewhere before, if it fits a character, I would let a player take evocation with 3 entirely different skills, as long as I can see that it is not intended to be for minmax purposes only, but rather because it fits the character better.
You could also take a stunt that lets you use contacts as your goto dodge skill...
I would always treat this as a power, since the character concept is based on the supernatural. And if the skill is high enough, there should be no problem in pretty much always getting the desired item. Randomness is well and good, but not if a characters high concept is depending on it.
How would you feel about a wizard + adventurer tag team, where the wizard is mainly creating enchanted items for the adventurer to use? In that scenario, the entire burden of refresh would sit on the wizards shoulders, while the adventurer could still benefit from the enchanted items. My power simply moves the wizard into the role of an NPC and shifts the costs to the actual character.
This is a substantial improvement. You've fixed a number of fairly serious problems. I could quibble about the wording, but whatever.Quibble away, if we make it an "official" power, we might as well make it as good as possible. And while I consider my English to be decent enough, I am no native speaker, so some things might be lost in translation anyway.
That aside, there's no need for the multiple Powers. Just make one with multiple usable skills.Yeah, but I thought it would be clearer if I did it like this for now. I especially wanted to make it clear that you have one source and not multiple, so you don't base one item on contacts, the next on resources, etc.
It shouldn't be strictly better for anyone.We'll, good then. But it was not about if it is better for one character or not, it is just that I think of this power as fitting only a very narrow type of character, specifically those without any powers of their own.
Fortunately, it no longer is.
No need to prevent Changelings from borrowing items.
As a general rule, if you have to specify "as long as nobody is trying to munchkin" it means that your rules are bad and should be fixed.If you make something munchkin proof, somebody is going to create a better munchkin. I regard the discussion between GM and player as a big part of the process of creating balanced powers and characters. That does not mean that powers in themselves can be all over the place, I just don't value their inherent balance as much as you seem to do.
No you couldn't. That would be unfair.Like I said, contacts might be stretching it as a stunt, but maybe someone out there has an idea of how to make it work. I would be careful in allowing a character to concentrate only on 1 skill, but if he can reasonably shift one trapping to an unusual skill, more power to him.
I used to allow this sort of nonsense, then realized that it was nonsense. See the Cleaning Up The Stunt List thread for more details.
Finely Tuned Third Eye is supernatural too, but it's not a Power.Yes... and no. It is not a supernatural power, it is the sense that makes the hair on your neck stand up when a ghost passes through you, or you are shaking the hand of a changeling. It is a sort of empathy for supernatural beings, it is feeling that there is something off, it is not the sight or wizards senses or anything like that. The stunt even states the "pure mortal" part.
In fact, it's more supernatural. A character using this Power might well have no magical abilities whatsoever, whereas Finely Tuned Third Eye boosts an extranormal competency.
And randomness in someone's basic concept is part of the game. Even a super-rich man can fail to buy something if he rolls badly.I'd see it more like making him roll to see if he is allowed to roll. Things like windfall don't take a roll, they just happen. A wizard will always be able to cast a spell, but it is not clear if he will do so successful. The same goes here. Also, depending on how high the skill, he might be able to get much more than 4 uses out of the power.
I'd be fine with it.
Thing is, your power doesn't actually shift all of the costs onto the actual character. It only shifts some of them. It now only shifts some of the effects, though, so that's okay.Look at that. I always thought it would be 1 extra use, so not much more than merging 2 enchanted item slots. That is good to know, thank you.
PS: You can spend an enchanted item slot to give an item two extra uses. That's how I got 7 uses.
Quibble away, if we make it an "official" power, we might as well make it as good as possible. And while I consider my English to be decent enough, I am no native speaker, so some things might be lost in translation anyway.
We'll, good then. But it was not about if it is better for one character or not, it is just that I think of this power as fitting only a very narrow type of character, specifically those without any powers of their own.
If you make something munchkin proof, somebody is going to create a better munchkin. I regard the discussion between GM and player as a big part of the process of creating balanced powers and characters. That does not mean that powers in themselves can be all over the place, I just don't value their inherent balance as much as you seem to do.
Like I said, contacts might be stretching it as a stunt, but maybe someone out there has an idea of how to make it work. I would be careful in allowing a character to concentrate only on 1 skill, but if he can reasonably shift one trapping to an unusual skill, more power to him.
Maybe not as a stunt but as a power, I could see this work for an ectomancer who is protected by ghosts.
At least I would not take Finely Tunes Third Eye as a reason to take away someones pure mortal status, while bag of tricks most certainly does.
I could see making the enchanted items only work as maneuver spells, which would probably be enough of a restriction to make it a stunt, what do you think? It would allow you to put up a variety of aspects with contacts, but they would still require an action to set up, so the conflict economy would be intact.
I'd see it more like making him roll to see if he is allowed to roll. Things like windfall don't take a roll, they just happen. A wizard will always be able to cast a spell, but it is not clear if he will do so successful. The same goes here. Also, depending on how high the skill, he might be able to get much more than 4 uses out of the power.
Look at that. I always thought it would be 1 extra use, so not much more than merging 2 enchanted item slots. That is good to know, thank you.
Here's how I'd word it.Phrasing it as potions is indeed very elegant, I had not even thought about it. Looks good to me like that, it is pretty much (see below) what I had in mind.
This got easier when I realized that I could shed a lot of complexity without affecting functionality by limiting the Power to potions.
BAG OF TRICKS [-1]
Description: For whatever reason, you have access to a few minor magical trinkets.
Skills affected: Contacts, Resources, Burglary, Lore.
Effects:
Enchanted items: You have four potions, each with a strength equal to your Contacts, Resources, Burglary, or Lore skill. You may not increase their strength in any way. At the beginning of each session, you must declare which potions you have on hand.
More Trinkets [-1]. You have four additional potions.
If this is in any way unclear or inelegant, please say so.
I suggest allowing declared trinkets under the "More Trinkets" category.I would allow so as well (and already do in my campaign), maybe limited to the 4 new trinkets, but I would definitely allow it. It allows for a more flexible play style and maybe some crazy last minute ideas to safe the day or just create an act of awesome.
Haru, do you mind if I add this to the master list?Do that. In fact, that's why I wanted to iron it out like this.
Power.
That's why it's got that formatting.
I see one issue with this power, well two:
1) If this stacks with normal potion slots from magic it could get kinda crazy.
2) The OP wanted a way for Pure Mortals to have enchanted items. Making Bag of Tricks a power (which I agree it should be, don't get me wrong) sort of stops mortals from having it. Do we have an alternative for Mortals? Should there be an alternative for Mortals?
Add those to a character who can already make potions with Thaum or Ritual crafting and I can see things getting pretty sick pretty fast.[/spoiler]
If a character has Thaum or Ritual crafting, they can spend those same refresh on Refinement for more potion slots and gain what are (probably) far better results.
it's focus item slots...then it is four enchanted item slots, which is four potions slots
Potions are supernatural.
The very first book of the series contains a mortal using a potion.
Sure, but Harry (or some offscreen wizard) could totally have given her a few potions every "session" unless she was "Compelled" and she'd still be narratively mortal.
Mechanically she'd be something else, but who cares?
People who want +2 refresh.
Susan has no player. So her Refresh is inconsequential.
Whether it should be a Power or a Stunt is nothing more than a power level concern. And this is powerful enough that it ought to be a Power.
Look at Father Forthill. He is completely mortal. He has Powers, though, to represent the fact that God helps him out a little bit.
Actually, the True Believer template is generally used on people who are narratively completely mortal. A theoretical template that only allowed this would be the same.
PS: I've been accused of only caring about mechanics, but really I'm just very aware of the separation between narrative and mechanics. That's what this is about.
So people with only faith powers should get +2 refresh? I like that idea! ;D
No. No.
No.
No no no no.
That's the exact opposite of what I mean.
My point is that even if your concept says "mortal", you can have abilities or advantages that are modelled as Powers. Which disqualifies you from Pure Mortal mechanics, but not from Pure Mortal fluff.
A good example would be a guy who's completely normal except for an Item of Power.