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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Richard_Chilton on April 20, 2012, 07:45:35 PM
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We have threads for custom powers, IoPs, and other custom things - but what are people's favour home rules?
What templates do people like? Do some groups ditch templates entirely? Make moving between templates easy?
Personally, I treat some of the templates as very elastic. When someone in our group makes a sorcerer or minor talent, I always have a "where do you want to take this" talk with them. Some people like playing a character whose mystic powers will never increase while others just don't have the refresh available to make what they want - and in a couple of cases people wanted to play out the "I'm still learning but someday will be" learning process. In one case - imagine everything on the wizard's template except Soulgaze (which would be free) because the person wanted to play an apprentice and saw the development of Soulgaze as the last step to becoming a wizard.
So, anyone else want to share what homebrew worked for you and what didn't?
Richard
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I ignore templates entirely, I view them as a tool to keep character creation simple for new players.
I also let Lawbreaker add to power and complexity.
Plus I roll for initiative, and I use a modified version of spin.
And I use a fair bit of homebrew content, as you might expect.
(Online, at least. In RL I'm not the GM.)
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I ignore templates entirely, I view them as a tool to keep character creation simple for new players.
Same here.
I like to play with Lawbreaking quite a bit, so sometimes I offer "Lawbreaking debt" instead of requiring that the player take the power (though I still require an aspect change).
I'm also quite liberal with debt in general (though like with sponsored magic I like to make the compel fit the debt).
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We ignore social combat. Entirely.
Our group finds it slows down flow of play. Social skills are generally still used for blocks, maneuvers, and glossing over chats with mooks. Social skills are slightly less useful in our game since we roleplay a lot and don't worry quite so much about the skills; yeah. However, sometimes the GM sets a difficulty to hit if he thinks the situation merits it. I.E. a white court vampire could totally seduce a same sex trucker. The player can't imagine how to do that.
I think templates need to exist for one reason. I think they could afford to be a lot less strict however. I will say that High Concepts need to clearly lay out which powers are allowed for the most part. I have gamed with a fair amount of muchkins who will run roughshod without rules keeping them penned in. YMMV.
I guess our houserule is templates are lossely used, unless you become a super-munchkin then we smack you.
Sanctaphrax: what is your houserule on spin? I may very well like it.
EDIT: good thread idea Richard. Many people may learn ways to enhance their play here.
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Thanks.
As an aside, seeing people's positions on Templates as a whole goes a long way to understanding why they would have a certain position in another thread.
Richard
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Spin houserule is that I give an extra aspect tag or some other benefit of roughly equal value when people get really excessively high results.
Personally I prefer rules that make munchkinning into a positive experience for everyone involved. Because people want to play that way, and there's no wrong way to play. Compels are my go-to example here.
If you want to pen in munchkins, I suggest not using the current template system. It enables munchkinry quite well.
Which other thread do you mean? I'd guess devonapple's, but I haven't had the time to follow Cowboy's so I'm not sure.
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Sorry - I should have been clearer. If a group doesn't use Templates then I can see them having a different take on isolated parts of a template, such as the refresh bonus given to the Pure Mortal template.
Richard
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That one seems fairly straight forward to me. Do you have any power that's not a stunt? If yes, then you loose the pure mortal bonus.
I agree with templates being a good guideline but mostly should be viewed as example characters, possible ways that you could combine the powers in the book to create different character types.
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The reason "no templates" is being listed as a house rule is that, in the RAW, they are mandatory.
But it seems that many groups find making them optional works well... I wouldn't be surprised if Paranet (or another of the new books coming out this year) talked about making them optional.
Richard
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So far, the only house-rule our group has made is the 'templates are guidelines' thing that everyone takes, apparently.
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Not all of us.
Richard
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Well, there's no meaningful difference between ignoring templates and letting players invent their own templates freely. So it's only sort of a houserule.
PS: Why would you use templates, given enough skill to make characters without them? I seriously can't think of a reason.
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We use Templates as a jumping-off point, mostly. Start with the template, but then make it something else; fudging the rules where appropriate.
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Not all of us.
Richard
I'm with you. Most players need limits. I'll let experienced ones fudge them to create new ones...with established limits.
Well, there's no meaningful difference between ignoring templates and letting players invent their own templates freely. So it's only sort of a houserule.
PS: Why would you use templates, given enough skill to make characters without them? I seriously can't think of a reason.
One World by Night.
Skill at making a character does not remove a need for limitations. From my experience it means the opposite. It means that skill can be a destructive force limited only by creativity and thus likely imbalancing to the game. Especially when the player is more skillful, efficicent, and clever than the GM. It can lead to frustration on behalf of other players and the GM. i've seen it a lot in my fifteen years of Tabletop and LARPing. (Not saying my experiences trump others or that I have the most experience ehre...only that I've played long enough to see some serious trainwrecks)
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So we went from a house rule topic to template debates.
Maybe we can make a thread for that and try to keep this as something fitting for the resources board. A tool for gamers. i think that'd be great.
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Saying One World By Night isn't helpful, I don't even know exactly what it is.
My question was a genuine one, not an argument in disguise.
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Why use Templates?
To encourage different power sets. If every power is (in theory) available to all PCs then some people will see another PC's choices and try to clone them.
To link the game to the DV - with the limitations and feeling of that setting. For example Thomas isn't a wizard nor is he a Red Court Vampire - and his powers reflect that. Maybe a high refresh version of Thomas would have more magical ump but the standard WCV would follow the WCV template - even though certain magical powers are more useful than some of the WCV's powers.
Speaking of those limitations - I don't see someone with the Powers of Faith also having mystic powers. There are different mindsets involved - and the templates reinforce that. Harry is pretty sure that God exists and has enough Faith in magic to drive off BCVs, but I don't see Harry getting Faith powers anytime soon.
Templates cut down on snowflake characters; there might be a Wizard (or Sorcerer) out there with the powers of Faith, but playing that one off shouldn't be automatic. Buying what you need for one Template before you can start buying things from another template cuts down on the number of White Court Vampires with Channeling and Guide My Hand.
From my experiences with a large RP group (not One World By Night - its competitor) when a power is advantageous it becomes common. For example, in a large Vampire the Masquerade setting, the number of PCs with Thaumaturgy reached the point where it was joked that Thaumaturgy was everyone's fourth in clan. When restrictions were placed on Thaumaturgy (in keeping with the published setting) Protean with its Wolf Claws became everyone's "fourth in clan".
And here's the counter question - what sorts of PCs do you end up with when you discard Templates?
Richard
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Saying One World By Night isn't helpful, I don't even know exactly what it is.
My question was a genuine one, not an argument in disguise.
Sorry.
The rest of my post explained what happens in that organization. Skilled people run roughsod on the rules as written without limitations. Hell, they do it with limitations, just less.
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Why use Templates?
To encourage different power sets. If every power is (in theory) available to all PCs then some people will see another PC's choices and try to clone them.
From my experiences with a large RP group (not One World By Night - its competitor) when a power is advantageous it becomes common. For example, in a large Vampire the Masquerade setting, the number of PCs with Thaumaturgy reached the point where it was joked that Thaumaturgy was everyone's fourth in clan. When restrictions were placed on Thaumaturgy (in keeping with the published setting) Protean with its Wolf Claws became everyone's "fourth in clan".
And here's the counter question - what sorts of PCs do you end up with when you discard Templates?
Richard
I think we may be some of the only ones familiar with V;tM etc.
What kind of characters do you get with out templates?
Lenny the mythic strength holy giant 1/2 temple dog with evocation and sponsored magic and 42 points of refinement who uses custom stunts and dual wields swords of the cross
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No, those are the types of PCs that you (One World By Night) and I (Camarilla, MC 14, countless offices) expect to see.
I'm curious at what sorts of PCs are actually being played by groups that ditch Templates. Remember, unlike a large LARP, when you're running a TT group you have the option to tell the assholes that they aren't invited to play. That would cut down on the abuse.
Richard
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No, those are the types of PCs that you (One World By Night) and I (Camarilla, MC 14, countless offices) expect to see.
I'm curious at what sorts of PCs are actually being played by groups that ditch Templates. Remember, unlike a large LARP, when you're running a TT group you have the option to tell the assholes that they aren't invited to play. That would cut down on the abuse.
Richard
Very true, I apologize for the pseudo trolling.
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That's an idiotic character.
Dual-wielding Swords Of The Cross wastes 5 Refresh. Plus they're redundant for an Evoker.
Temple Dogs have Claws, which no good optimizer would take alongside a Sword and Evocation.
Temple Dogs have The Bark, which generally sucks.
Mythic Strength and Evocation are not a good combination at all. That's basically taking the same rough set of capabilities twice using different skills and paying twice.
And Size powers aren't the best way to boost your durability. Lenny's freakin' fragile.
Lenny's a 62+ Refresh character, but I think I could easily thrash him with a 20 Refresh character. A 20 Refresh character who doesn't deviate from canon templates, in fact.
The above is mostly a joke, but it has a point. Intelligent Refresh spending generally gives you a coherent character. The rules of this game make it mechanically optimal to not make Lenny.
If you head over to the Play By Post board to look at Enduring The Apocalypse, you'll see the kind of characters I play with. Some are optimized, others are not. The most optimized of them, Elena Blackcloak, is narratively an Emissary Of Power and a Scion. She doesn't have Marked By Power, though.
I've also got a White Court Vampire, a giant scion, a template-less shapeshifter, and a nightmare-god scion. Former characters include a few spellcasters and a space marine.
I appreciate the explanation, by the way.
PS: If a power is optimal for everyone, the power is broken and should be discarded or edited. Don't blame the lack of templates for that, blame badly-written powers. (In fact, I think that problem is worse when templates are used. If everyone needs to have Blood Drinker for whatever reason and that power is only available to Red Court Infected, characters are going to look pretty similar to one another.)