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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Ghsdkgb on March 06, 2012, 07:04:09 PM

Title: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Ghsdkgb on March 06, 2012, 07:04:09 PM
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_rBThBzjhXveU4yWHNYZWdSaGlscmNSOWVEaHVGZw (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_rBThBzjhXveU4yWHNYZWdSaGlscmNSOWVEaHVGZw)

I don't know if it's been done or compiled already or what, but I had some time the other day and curiosity was getting the better of me. So, I used Excel to figure out the probabilities of every roll. Then, since spending a fate point allows you to reroll, I statted up the chance of improvement and chance of worse failure on a reroll. And because the option is a reroll OR a +2, I also put in the chance of that improvement being over a +2.

So if you've seen this before, I've done no harm. But if you haven't, well, here it is! Do with the knowledge what you will.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on March 06, 2012, 07:07:07 PM
The basic graph has been done before, but as far as I know the FP spending analysis is new.

Thanks regardless.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Sjappo on March 06, 2012, 11:01:50 PM
Nice one.

One thing though. My instinct tell me it is more usesfull to know the chance to get +2 or better on a reroll instead of better than +2. Look at -2 for example. Getting better than +2 starting from -2 with a reroll is 38.27%. Which suggests rerolling is not advantages, when in fact is is. The chance to roll +2 or better on a reroll starting from -2 is 61.73%. So 6 out of 10 times rerolling gets you the same or better results than grabbing a +2. Seems like a good deal to me.

So, conclusion, reroll from -4 to -2. -1 if you feel lucky. Otherwise grab that +2 from -1 or higher.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Mr. Death on March 06, 2012, 11:07:49 PM
I think the 'better than +2' way is valid enough. +2 is the default, if you will, which is a sure thing if you decide to get it. If you're rerolling, it's probably because you want--maybe need--a +3 or more.

With the 38% chance at rolling better than +2 from the initial -2, it means it might be more advantageous to just take the +2 instead of risking a bad roll in the hopes of getting +3.

It comes down to whether it's worth it vs. the +2. Or worth it for the risk of a +1 or worse.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Sjappo on March 07, 2012, 08:34:53 AM
It boils down to a 38% chance you are off worse with a reroll starting at -2. You are right though. It boils down to if you need the +3 or not. Or if it doesn't matter either way.

As an aside, it struck me as odd to see people crunching numbers on a system that is so obviously story based / not about numbers. The DnD community crunches numbers on a daily bases, but that game is all about numbers.

Still, it's good to know the odds if you go for a reroll. The choice made is more situational as you say mr. Death.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on March 07, 2012, 12:42:40 PM
It mostly confirms my gut response to re-roll whenever I get a -3 or -4 and have a fate point handy.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: devonapple on March 07, 2012, 05:35:08 PM
As an aside, it struck me as odd to see people crunching numbers on a system that is so obviously story based / not about numbers.

Once we stop using dice to resolve conflicts, then the game will be a lot less about numbers.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Orladdin on March 07, 2012, 05:41:32 PM
Once we stop using dice to resolve conflicts, then the game will be a lot less about numbers.

^  This.

I would have hoped people on this board would be too wise to fall for the Stormwind Fallacy (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cts=1331141943299&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmtgsalvation.com%2F928-at-the-gathering-the-stormwind-fallacy-teflon-redux.html&ei=TZ1XT_TDMYWMigKh9IyZCw&usg=AFQjCNHSkkZjznfksPeFphVTMFY4237-iA); but Humans never cease to surprise me.

Quote from: Tempest Stormwind
The Stormwind Fallacy, aka the Roleplayer vs Rollplayer Fallacy
Just because one optimizes his characters mechanically does not mean that they cannot also roleplay, and vice versa.

Corollary: Doing one in a game does not preclude, nor infringe upon, the ability to do the other in the same game.

Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse roleplayer if he optimizes, and vice versa.
Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically roleplayed better than an optimized one, and vice versa.

Learn it.  Live it.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Ghsdkgb on March 07, 2012, 08:45:03 PM
As an aside, it struck me as odd to see people crunching numbers on a system that is so obviously story based / not about numbers. The DnD community crunches numbers on a daily bases, but that game is all about numbers.
Near as I can tell, these are the only numbers really worth crunching.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Sjappo on March 08, 2012, 09:49:54 AM
^  This.

I would have hoped people on this board would be too wise to fall for the Stormwind Fallacy (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cts=1331141943299&ved=0CCsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmtgsalvation.com%2F928-at-the-gathering-the-stormwind-fallacy-teflon-redux.html&ei=TZ1XT_TDMYWMigKh9IyZCw&usg=AFQjCNHSkkZjznfksPeFphVTMFY4237-iA); but Humans never cease to surprise me.

Learn it.  Live it.
Yes, yes, I know. This was not an invoke of the Sormwind Fallacy. At least, it was not intended as such. I was just surprised to see people crunching numbers. To be honest I expected to see the Stomwind Fallacy invoked on the OP for crunching numbers, not on poor old me who just made an innocent observation.

I prefer to play mechanically sound characters and I try to know how to use the game mechanics advantages as you could have guessed from the rest of my few comments on this board.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Sjappo on March 08, 2012, 09:51:04 AM
Near as I can tell, these are the only numbers really worth crunching.
True, thanks for that. I'll certainly use the knowledge deductable from your work.
Title: Re: So, I statted up all the possible dice rolls...
Post by: Richard_Chilton on March 10, 2012, 11:43:16 PM
When I first saw Fate Dice I typed "fate dice probabilities" into google.  That brought me to http://hill-kleerup.org/pmwiki/FATE/FUDGEDice (http://hill-kleerup.org/pmwiki/FATE/FUDGEDice).  Then I unrolled the piece of paper that was inside the dice tube - and discovered that the company that made the dice supplied the probability breakdowns.

That piece of paper got passed around a bit during early games when people were debating "should I use that Aspect for a +2 or a re-roll?".  Knowing the odds then can help someone make a choice, but probability theory can't predict the outcome of a single data point...   In other words, if the dice show -3 and you decide to re-roll, you still have 1 / 81 chance of getting -4.

Richard