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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: dbrowne1974 on March 02, 2012, 04:06:25 PM
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Hello all,
I have a player who chose to be a Focused Practitioner combining that with Changeling. Been quite interesting. The powers he chose were Beast Change and when he changes he gets Inhuman Toughness/Strength. Now the thing that came was, can he just use beast change to change his arms and would that grant him his Inhuman Strength. I wasn't sure so I just let him do it, but told him next time probably not, because it seemed that would act more like the Modular Abilities power.
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Powers which are limited by Human Form can only be used if you change to your other form; unless you've got other shapechanging powers which let you change just your limbs, they don't grant you that power. Remember, though, that Human Form and Beast Change are two separate abilities; some shapechangers might only have the Human Form limiter on their actual Creature Features (e.g., Claws, Hulking Size), and retain their inhuman attributes even in their human form.
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Mechanically, the only thing Beast Change does is to allow you to create an alternate allocation of your skill points, with the special effect that you have an alternate shape when you switch between skill sets. It only allows you a single alternate shape with a single linked skill set.
A character with Beast Change and Inhuman Strength is technically Inhumanly Strong all of the time, not just when he changes shape. This is fine for a Fae, because they are allowed to have such capabilities. It's the Human Form 'power' that causes those abilities to be limited by shape; if you take Human Form, then the abilities you link to it don't work unless you're in your non-human form. And you get a point of refresh back because you've limited your powers in this way (ie, Human Form is +1 refresh). Human Form can also be a benefit in some cases: if a character has Claws or Wings, for example, those are normally always obvious (no retractable claws!); but with Human Form, they 'go away' when in human form.
So if your player's build is:
- Inhuman Strength [-2]
- Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- The Catch: Fae Stuff [+1]
- Beast Change (insert alternate form here) [-1]
then he is always strong and tough, and can (separately) change into an animal form (with a corresponding skill change, generally to boost skills like sensory skills and physical fighting skills, and still keeping the Strength and Toughness). If, on the other hand, he chooses:
- Human Form [+1], affecting:
- - Beast Change (insert alternate form here) [-1]
- - Inhuman Strength [-2]
- - Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- - The Catch: Fae Stuff [+1]
then in his normal form does not have the Strength/Toughness powers, he only gets stronger and tougher when he changes out of his human shape. He can also mix and match, like this:
- Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- The Catch: Fae Stuff [+1]
- Human Form [+1], affecting:
- - Beast Change (insert alternate form here) [-1]
- - Inhuman Strength [-2]
Now he's always got the Toughness power, but Inhuman Strength is only available when in his beast shape.
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Thanks for the answers. He's got his powers set like:
Human Form [+1], affecting:
- Beast Change (insert alternate form here) [-1]
- Inhuman Strength [-2]
- Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- The Catch: Fae Stuff [+1]
But can he just do a partial change to grant him the Inhuman Strength?? That's where I'm unclear
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Don't think so. Beast Change seems to be all-or-nothing. As does Human Form.
Incidentally, shouldn't Beast Change not be affected by the Human Form? It doesn't make much sense to only be able to turn into a bear while in the form of a bear.
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Well I wanted to double check, he doesn't have Human Form. The type of character he was going for was an Incredible Hulk type character. "Human" by day and and when his limited magical abilities fail him he can "hulk" out. I thought Modular Abilities fit the, I just wanna be strong so I punch a hole thru the wall so we can escape.", while not completely freaking out the normal people in the area. Or i could be explaining it all too.
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Sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too. Which is doable, but costs more Refresh.
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Incidentally, shouldn't Beast Change not be affected by the Human Form? It doesn't make much sense to only be able to turn into a bear while in the form of a bear.
It makes a little more sense than being able to change into a bear without changing into a bear (I.E. Using beast change while still in human form).
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So was the character made "wrong" or should we have just shifted the abilities around. The concept like i said earlier is an Incredible Hulk type character. Decided to become a Focused Practitioner(Earth magic), so he doesn't have to use his Fae powers as much. Only in the dire of situations does he use his Fae powers. We have his magic abilities down, it's just the Fae part that is throwing us then. Like earlier we were not sure if he's able to do a partial change to grant him the Inhuman Strength as to not terrify the surrounding public too much.
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If he's human, without his Hulk powers, at least part of the time, then yes, he needs Human Form. Without some sort of shapeshifting power, those powers would be essentially always on.
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OK, so since he's a half breed, he would need Beast Change for the transformation. But what about the idea for the partial transformations. I get that Beast Change is an all or nothing type power, so would Modular Abilities fill the gap for the partial changes?
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Actually, what would fill the gap for partial changes is the -0 power Human Guise (instead of the +1 Human Form).
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While Human Guise would work, Human Form fits the character better in terms of the story. If he can't do the partial changes with Human Form then he'll just have to live with it, makes it more fun for me.
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If he's fully paid for Inhuman Strength (ie, he hasn't gotten a rebate from Human Form), then he's technically entitled to Inhuman Strength always, whether or not he's in bear form. Of course, if he's paid for Inhuman Strength all of the time, there's no good reason he can't choose to limit himself in the way you describe (by having to 'power up' his strength via a flavor-text-based partial transformation).
In fact, if you built it into his aspects (I can draw on the mighty strength of a bear!), then you could even reward him via compels when his Strength wasn't available when he needed it.
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As long as the change is still obvious I don't really see an issue with allowing partial changes. Make it a difficult Discipline roll to control the change midway if you want. Could even have fun with an oddball declaration or two to make up any shortfall ("Yes your arms changed, sadly your left thumb didn't. Your left ear did though!")
I would avoid allowing hidden changes - changes which negate Human Form (assuming it's applicable). But if you've suddenly got a large hairy malk-like arm protruding from your shoulder, it's pretty obvious you aren't human. ;)
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Thanks for the answers. He's got his powers set like:
Human Form [+1], affecting:
- Beast Change (insert alternate form here) [-1]
- Inhuman Strength [-2]
- Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- The Catch: Fae Stuff [+1]
But can he just do a partial change to grant him the Inhuman Strength?? That's where I'm unclear
But of a min-maxing question really but this doesn't make sense to me. I get +1 from human form no matter how many powers I link it to. The "best" way to do this is have it link to the least usefull power or power which would be least affected. Like:
Beast Change [-1]
- Human Form [+1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- Catch [+1]
for a total refresh cost of -3.
[edit typos]
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But of a min-maxing question really but this doesn't make sense to me. I get +1 from human form no matter how many powers I link it to. The "best" way to do this is have it link to the least usefull power or power which would be least affected. Like:
Beast Change [-1]
- Human Form [+1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- Catch [+1]
for a total refresh cost of -3.
[edit typos]
You can't link the human form only to beast change and still get the rebate. You can never reduce the cost of a power to zero through rebates.
You could however, restrict just the Strength with the human form, which means he'd only be stronger when he's full-bodied beast, but still has the Toughness when human.
Or you could increase his toughness by a level and then apply the Human Form rebate to that in conjunction with the catch.
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But of a min-maxing question really but this doesn't make sense to me. I get +1 from human form no matter how many powers I link it to. The "best" way to do this is have it link to the least usefull power or power which would be least affected. Like:
Beast Change [-1]
- Human Form [+1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- Catch [+1]
for a total refresh cost of -3.
[edit typos]
The total refresh is still -3 either way, whether it's (-1+1-2-2+1) or (+1-1-2-2+1).
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The total refresh is still -3 either way, whether it's (-1+1-2-2+1) or (+1-1-2-2+1).
Yes, it's the same either way -- but only if he places the disadvantage on something that will actually give him the rebate for it. And specifically which powers he attaches to that disadvantage does matter. Just because the math comes out the same does not preclude writing down specifically what powers are attached to what drawbacks.
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But of a min-maxing question really but this doesn't make sense to me. I get +1 from human form no matter how many powers I link it to. The "best" way to do this is have it link to the least usefull power or power which would be least affected. Like:
Beast Change [-1]
- Human Form [+1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
- Catch [+1]
for a total refresh cost of -3.
From a pure mechanics standpoint, yes that is better. However you have to look at it from a thematic standpoint too. If it makes sense for all of the other powers to be accessible in your human form then go for it, though it seems odd to me that you could change forms (with beast change) without removing your human form...
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Human Form on a character with Beast Change normally means "these powers are only available when using Beast Change". Sure, Human Form can provide it's own shapeshifting. But it doesn't have to.
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I also vote against partial transformation. That would be the realm of True Shapeshifting, which is something that would drive a mere mortal insane.
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Sorry if my suggestions was not exactly legal. My knowledge of this system is not that extensive.
The point was that mechanically it was possible for the character to have either toughness or strength always on. So to make the one that is always on activatable in stead has mechanically no repercussions. It's a self nerf if anything.
Making both toughness and strength activatable may or may not be worth the +1 refresh. I don't know. I'd be inclined to allow it and have the change have some visible changes on the character. And add an aspect for the GM to tag or invoke. That should balance it out.
From what I've read so far magic trumps anything else so this change wouldn't upset the balance to much.