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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Mr. Death on February 27, 2012, 09:25:10 PM
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So, I'm planning to put in my game an Item of Power based on the Phoenix, which will come with Mythic Recovery and the catch/condition that the healing will only apply when the wounds and body are bathed in fire.
I figure this Catch is probably worth the +5, since rather than something specific that bypasses the healing, it's something very specific that has to be done to start the healing. The Item of Power would probably reduce the catch to +4 or +3, with its own discount.
The main thing complicating this is one of the potential characters to end up with it has Inhuman Toughness powers and holy stuff (she's a demon scion) as the catch (+1 for her, +2 going by examples in the books).
So, I'm curious as to how I should model this. Do I keep the catches priced separately? Remove the +1 Catch on the Toughness power and keep the Recovery catch+IoP discount at +5, resulting in a total -2 refresh cost for taking the item? Or lump the Toughness and Recovery 'together' so that the Recovery catch's discount applies to both (making taking the IoP cost a net -1)?
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A "Catch" is what doesn't heal (or protect). So if they can heal any wound by applying fire to it, it's +0. As for combining two catches, you only gain the refresh benefit from the higher of the two.
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A "Catch" is what doesn't heal (or protect). So if they can heal any wound by applying fire to it, it's +0.
I feel like there should be some mechanical benefit to only being able to heal in very specific (and somewhat counterintuitive) circumstances, though.
And adding a feeding dependency on fire won't work, because the character's already got that for her demony scion powers.
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Maybe you could attach the Mythic Recovery to Human Form, with the change only allowed when bathed in fire? (Note that I wouldn't allow for the extra bonus +1 from rare/involuntary because the conditions are fairly easy to come by.)
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Edit: curse you, Becq, you were faster ;D
The problem is, that it will heal everything, so there is essentially no catch. If you put a catch like "water and ice" on it, then it would heal everything except damage from water and ice. You could make "water and ice" the catch, it fits thematically for a phoenix type recovery item. You could add a +1 for the fact that you need fire to activate it.
Maybe like this:
Phoenix amulet (Item of Power) [-1]
Discount [+1]
Human Form (needs fire to activate) [+1]
Mystic Recovery [-6]
the Catch (water and ice) [+3] (maybe more, but that wouldn't reduce the IoP cost)
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Becq just lucky, I guess!
Note that you do lose a fairly substantial part of the benefits of Mythic Recovery, since you won't get to clear away three minor consequences per scene. I'm assuming, of course, that the power requires more than setting your clothes on fire at the beginning of each combat scene and that the character does not otherwise routinely fight while his body is bathed in flame. (If your city is name "Kalauea Crater", then your mileage might vary.)
So perhaps another option would be to create a new power that strips that benefit out of the equation. Perhaps that is worth -2 refresh? So the remaining benefit would go for -4 refresh, possibly with a Human Form-style attachment to reflect that in only works under certain (fairly simple to produce, but occasionally troublesome) conditions.
That said, reducing it's cost as low as -3 seems a bit overly-generous.
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Note that you do lose a fairly substantial part of the benefits of Mythic Recovery, since you won't get to clear away three minor consequences per scene. I'm assuming, of course, that the power requires more than setting your clothes on fire at the beginning of each combat scene and that the character does not otherwise routinely fight while his body is bathed in flame. (If your city is name "Kalauea Crater", then your mileage might vary.)
I agree on the fact that simply setting yourself on fire for each fight is kind of silly. But it would be a great scene, if an enemy wizard starts throwing fireballs and effectively heals the character with it. In that case you could put the involuntary change aspect in, saying that it either has to be fire from someone else, or it has to be outside of a conflict. Though again, from a mechanical standpoint it is moot, unless you want to invent "total recovery" or something, since you already have more than enough discount powers.
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Well, I was originally thinking that the amount of fire needed would scale with the severity of the Consequence. A minor consequence would, yes, be taken care of by incidental flame to the afflicted area, Moderate would take longer, more intense contact, and Severe (or just plain Death) would require total immolation.
Though thinking about it now, a better way to do it might be to use that Immortality custom power I remember seeing on the Custom Powers list, and link it to being immolated, plus Inhuman Recovery attached to the incidental flame (with the potential to trade in for higher recovery powers later on).
Though looking at that power now, it doesn't quite fit what I had in mind. Hm. Maybe just a custom homebrewed power would be in order?
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Ok, if I see this correct, you want the "Really amazingly fast recovery" part of Mystic Recovery, without the rest of the power, and it should work when you are engulfing yourself in fire as a part of healing yourself after a fight, not during a fight.
Then let's just do that. Let's take "Really amazingly fast recovery" as a -4 power. It allows you to enter every fight without any physical consequences, but you can't heal yourself during a fight, so I think it is priced fair like that. Now to the discounts. For an amulet, which is probably the best form for an item like that it would be +1. Human form to represent the fact that you need fire to activate it is another +1. Since you want it to heal everything, there will be no catch, which is +0. You can still be killed, but it has to be done in one conflict, or your enemy has to make sure you can't immolate yourself. This would be a -2 total, which is still pretty great for the benefit.
The holy catch would still apply of course (along with the discount), but you would be able to heal yourself from it with the phoenix power. It makes sense, since the phoenix doesn't really have anything to do with holy stuff.
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Ok, if I see this correct, you want the "Really amazingly fast recovery" part of Mystic Recovery, without the rest of the power, and it should work when you are engulfing yourself in fire as a part of healing yourself after a fight, not during a fight.
Then let's just do that. Let's take "Really amazingly fast recovery" as a -4 power. It allows you to enter every fight without any physical consequences, but you can't heal yourself during a fight, so I think it is priced fair like that. Now to the discounts. For an amulet, which is probably the best form for an item like that it would be +1. Human form to represent the fact that you need fire to activate it is another +1. Since you want it to heal everything, there will be no catch, which is +0. You can still be killed, but it has to be done in one conflict, or your enemy has to make sure you can't immolate yourself. This would be a -2 total, which is still pretty great for the benefit.
The holy catch would still apply of course (along with the discount), but you would be able to heal yourself from it with the phoenix power. It makes sense, since the phoenix doesn't really have anything to do with holy stuff.
Oh, that sounds really good, yeah. I'm thinking of having it as an aspect that it can't be direct magical fire (i.e., Fuego wouldn't heal, but sitting on a bonfire started by Fuego would) that does it, partly because the party's got a wizard in it, which would mean insta-healing every fight; making the character (or the surviving party members) have to actually put together fuel for the fire would let consequences keep their bite a bit longer.
Thanks! :)
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Which brings up a point. By default, nothing of what has been discussed here grants any form of resistance to fire. So technically, the player will be racking up cosnequences far faster than he heals them.
Ways to deal with this include:
1) adding in a physical immunity to fire, whether it works against non-magical fire only or possibly only "non-attack" fire (these options would be comprehensive but would cost some refresh)
2) hand-waving on the subject, and just let the player set up a "special effects" fire that lets him heal but doesn't burn him
As GM, you can opt for whatever, though I'd be careful NOT to let the player get "free" immunity to (for example) flamethrowers or aggressively-wielded welding torches just because of the power.
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I'd probably just handwave it. Since it is meant to be an effect outside of a conflict and not an on the spot healing, it should be fine. It is more of a "cool effect" part that really doesn't need a mechanics attached to it.
Of course this could create an interesting scene: The character closely escaped a collapsing building, which then starts to burn, and he is badly injured. There is someone left in the house, so he gets up, walks into the fire and heals while he rescues the other one. And I would probably still be ok, because in my eyes something like this is just an awesome scene.
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Yeah, the plan was just to handwave it. A guideline would probably be that in order for fire to heal you, there must be something to heal. Plus, I figure to heal anything beyond a mild consequence, you'd need considerable sustained fire, so being whacked with a torch or hit with a flamethrower would still cause consequences.
Which I suppose leaves the potential of someone flamethrowering the bearer to death, then keep flamethrowering them until they come out the other side fresh and ready to go.
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Which I suppose leaves the potential of someone flamethrowering the bearer to death, then keep flamethrowering them until they come out the other side fresh and ready to go.
Which is a pretty good description of a phoenix I think ;)
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Just put a 'friendliness' clause in there. A fire that the character or an ally sets in order to provide healing is 'friendly fire'. Attacks (even those by allies) is 'unfriendly fire', despite terminology to the contrary. I'd probably also classify any hostile maneuver-based fires as unfriendly (otherwise the character would gain immunity to certain maneuvers for free), and I'd probably allow the character to invoke his aspect to treat random environmental fire as 'friendly'. Or something like that.
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Another consideration is that, without immunity to fire, then healing this way will probably hurt like hell, but that's more narrative than mechanics.
The Friendly/Unfriendly Fire thing has merit. And it reminds me of the old military saying, "Friendly fire isn't." I'll probably play around with the different methods and see what sticks, once the item comes into play.
Alternatively, I'm thinking length of time might be the easiest way to go about determining what fires cause consequences, and which ones heal them. Getting hit with a flamethrower for a few seconds? Severe consequence or death. Being put on a funeral pyre and burned consistently for an hour after being flamethrowered to death? Wake up right as rain.
Basically, make it so that the amount of fire needed to heal is simply impractical to happen during battle.
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Personally, I would consider it more "Phoenix-like" to have the IoP give the "Undying" custom power in the Custom Powers thread(To provide the resurrection) and Physical Immunity to Fire (With the stacked catch). Because I see the phoenix as dying and coming back to life after whatever killed it is gone. I would also mention that bursting into flame and dying can be considered a valid concession in combat. For the special, permanent death that bypasses Undying, you could draw from Phoenix lore, or come up with something fitting.
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Ah, Undying, that's the power I was thinking of before, not Immortality. Though Undying only stipulates that eventually you'll recover from any consequence and death, it doesn't account for actual healing times so much. I figured the trapping of Mythic Recovery would do the job, given that Uber Ghouls seem to have similar "come back from even what should really be death" written into it.
As for bypassing it, I figured, like most Items of Power, the protection wouldn't apply if the amulet's taken away.
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Hm. I'd start by looking at a comparable power: Physical Immunity, with a +4 stacked catch of "Any situation in which you can't be set on fire."
That's perfectly rules-legal, if a bit stronger than you were looking for.
The other alternative within RAW is to just re-fluff living dead - replace the "you're dead" part of it with "you're on fire" - for similar bonuses & penalties, replace needing taxidermy or necromancy to repair damage to needing fire to repair damage, and you should be good to go. Makes the amulet much more of a "don't put it on unless you know you'll need it" thing, though.
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Hm. I'd start by looking at a comparable power: Physical Immunity, with a +4 stacked catch of "Any situation in which you can't be set on fire."
That's perfectly rules-legal, if a bit stronger than you were looking for.
Yeah, the idea is the wielder would still take consequences, but would be able to come back from those consequences and death, so Physical Immunity doesn't really fit (plus it's kind of a fuzzy catch, likelihood of being set on fire being something of random chance, perhaps rising based on your proximity to one Wizard Dresden).
The other alternative within RAW is to just re-fluff living dead - replace the "you're dead" part of it with "you're on fire" - for similar bonuses & penalties, replace needing taxidermy or necromancy to repair damage to needing fire to repair damage, and you should be good to go. Makes the amulet much more of a "don't put it on unless you know you'll need it" thing, though.
I don't think that really fits either, aside from the one trapping that says you need special rituals to make sure they're dead dead. And wouldn't it imply that you're always on fire, and can only be healed through fire?