ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Kiero on December 21, 2011, 10:06:58 PM

Title: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 21, 2011, 10:06:58 PM
We've just finished the first story of City on the River (http://cityontheriver.wordpress.com/), and our party is shaping up to be quite a capable bunch of people. However, we have three melee-ists; my character (the Scion), a Knight of the Cross and an Emissary of Power (see the PCs (http://cityontheriver.wordpress.com/character-profile/)). The latter two are melee weapon-focused and unarmed-focused (via an IoP granting Inhuman Strength and Claws).

My character is currently thus:

(click to show/hide)

I know what I want with my next point of Refresh, Supernatural Strength. After that, though, I'm really not sure. For reference, we're playing Scions like Changelings; there's an ultimate "parent" Power set towards which you can develop but may eventually face a Choice between the sides of your heritage.

My "parent" Power set was agreed thus:

(click to show/hide)

Which is quite a meaty lot, leaving loads of room to grow into that without being in too much risk of triggering the Choice. I was originally thinking I'd get Supernatural Strength and Speed, and Claws (and switch to Fists as my primary), but the latter one feels a bit too much like I'm stepping on the Emissary's toes. Similarly, though, if I stick to using Weapons, I'm going to inevitably impinge on what the Knight does.

I don't want the magic, and the Claws do feel a lot like indulging the demonic side that he's trying to avoid, which is why I'm leaning towards the melee weapons. It feels more like attempting to remain within the human realm, even if that's boosted by demon powers, as compared to using bare hands (and feet).

Anyone got any thoughts, barring just waiting to see how the three characters progress?
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: EdgeOfDreams on December 21, 2011, 10:28:49 PM
Honestly, your character is already pretty uber.  Rather than seeking more power, I would suggest investing in stunts.  Particularly, Riposte comes to mind as one of the better stunts for the Weapons skill.  Alternative, some stunts invested in social skills or skill substitutions could help shore up your lack of non-combat ability.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: wyvern on December 21, 2011, 10:43:47 PM
Hm.  I'd actually make a simple flavor choice to distinguish yourself.  Some examples:

1) play up the thrown / ranged aspect of the weapons skill.  Flavor "wall of death" as a fan of knives sort of skill.  Pick up the dual-wielding stunt, and maybe a zero-point "Item of Power" dagger that returns when thrown & functions as weapon: 2 when used in melee.  (This is worth zero, because it's not any better mechanically than you could get by pairing up a shortsword with mundane daggers.)

2) Have your current weapon break when you use it with supernatural strength - and then go find something sturdier, like a two-handed warhammer.  Describe your combat in terms of sweeping blows that can be dodged but not parried; maybe take a stunt that gives you +1 on weapon attacks when your opponent is defending with weapons or fists.

3) Go weaponmaster - instead of having a preferred weapon, you have a whole collection - and know enough to pick out which weapon would be best used in the current situation.  Take a stunt that does for the weapons skill what martial artist does for fists, and then use it - pick out the "right" weapon at the start of any given fight, and use a declaration to give yourself the advantage for having brought a sword to a knife fight, or a polearm to a swordfight, or a knife when it's close quarters fighting and your foes are still trying to swing those clunky halberds around...

4) You've got an aspect that references chains already; make that literal with flails, whips, etc.  Go heavy on the maneuvers; trip your foes, entangle them (a stunt that lets you grapple using weapons complemented by might, rather than just might skill), and generally work to control the fight - let your allies get the finishing blows, and know that you're the one that made such decisive strikes possible.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 21, 2011, 11:33:15 PM
Honestly, your character is already pretty uber.  Rather than seeking more power, I would suggest investing in stunts.  Particularly, Riposte comes to mind as one of the better stunts for the Weapons skill.  Alternative, some stunts invested in social skills or skill substitutions could help shore up your lack of non-combat ability.

I might get some later, but I really need the guaranteed extra damage of Supernatural Strength first. I'm the party's primary muscle and it fits nicely.

Lack of non-combat ability hasn't been an issue so far; Intimidation and Stealth have been my main non-combat plays, besides Athletics. Something boosting my Intimidation, or giving a skill switch on Discipline might be good ones.

Hm.  I'd actually make a simple flavor choice to distinguish yourself.  Some examples:

1) play up the thrown / ranged aspect of the weapons skill.  Flavor "wall of death" as a fan of knives sort of skill.  Pick up the dual-wielding stunt, and maybe a zero-point "Item of Power" dagger that returns when thrown & functions as weapon: 2 when used in melee.  (This is worth zero, because it's not any better mechanically than you could get by pairing up a shortsword with mundane daggers.)

2) Have your current weapon break when you use it with supernatural strength - and then go find something sturdier, like a two-handed warhammer.  Describe your combat in terms of sweeping blows that can be dodged but not parried; maybe take a stunt that gives you +1 on weapon attacks when your opponent is defending with weapons or fists.

3) Go weaponmaster - instead of having a preferred weapon, you have a whole collection - and know enough to pick out which weapon would be best used in the current situation.  Take a stunt that does for the weapons skill what martial artist does for fists, and then use it - pick out the "right" weapon at the start of any given fight, and use a declaration to give yourself the advantage for having brought a sword to a knife fight, or a polearm to a swordfight, or a knife when it's close quarters fighting and your foes are still trying to swing those clunky halberds around...

4) You've got an aspect that references chains already; make that literal with flails, whips, etc.  Go heavy on the maneuvers; trip your foes, entangle them (a stunt that lets you grapple using weapons complemented by might, rather than just might skill), and generally work to control the fight - let your allies get the finishing blows, and know that you're the one that made such decisive strikes possible.

On 1) I may play up the thrown weapon angle in later games anyway, the Knight certainly doesn't use them. Both thrown knives but also javelins, if I'm able to come prepared to a fight.

Ironically on 2) I've discussed Compel-oriented weapon breakage when I hit Supernatural Strength. I'm mildly tempted, depending on how problematic it becomes, to get an IoP almost simply for the Unbreakable quality.

On 3) I've already been doing that to a degree, but I do think it's a worthy thing to emphasise. So far Faris has used a saddle axe in single combat with an uber-ghoul, a cavalry sabre in running battles with Renfields and ghouls, and a sledge hammer as missile weapon too.

On 4) that's not a bad idea to add to 3). Perhaps a kunai on a chain or the like?
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: wyvern on December 21, 2011, 11:52:06 PM
Haha; I'd meant that list to be a "pick one" sort of thing - but it sounds like you're picking all of them.  In that case, having a variety of weapons might also be insurance against strength-related compels; if one weapon breaks... move on to the next.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 22, 2011, 01:00:23 AM
Haha; I'd meant that list to be a "pick one" sort of thing - but it sounds like you're picking all of them.  In that case, having a variety of weapons might also be insurance against strength-related compels; if one weapon breaks... move on to the next.

Well, when you've got high Weapons, there's no reason (barring the usual concealability/carrying capacity issues) not to bring an arsenal.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 22, 2011, 02:21:21 AM
Honestly, your character is already pretty uber.  Rather than seeking more power, I would suggest investing in stunts.
He only has Inhuman level powers. His parent is pretty uber, I'd admit but the PC isn't quite that level yet.
But I'd also advise getting some stunts to shore up the lower level skills like Discipline and Lore. A situational +2 to Discipline or Lore can be quite useful.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: EdgeOfDreams on December 22, 2011, 02:29:17 AM
He only has Inhuman level powers. His parent is pretty uber, I'd admit but the PC isn't quite that level yet.
But I'd also advise getting some stunts to shore up the lower level skills like Discipline and Lore. A situational +2 to Discipline or Lore can be quite useful.

Well, I must admit I come from a game where Supernatural X is banned for PC's.  Having all four Inhumans, with significant rebates from catch and other stuff is considered very strong for a PC where I come from.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Becq on December 22, 2011, 02:34:51 AM
As an alternative to going the IoP route to give you an Strength-proof weapon, you could go the Claws route.  This would probably involve a bit of retraining: you'd want to swap Weapons and Fists (and possibly even allow Weapons to degrade over time due to disuse) and either 'forget' your stunt or replace it with something else.  A nice bennie to this is that the claws could be concealed by your Human Form.

If you really like the weapon schtick (which I get the impression you do), then this option is not for you, of course.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 22, 2011, 02:50:28 AM
Well, I must admit I come from a game where Supernatural X is banned for PC's.  Having all four Inhumans, with significant rebates from catch and other stuff is considered very strong for a PC where I come from.
Inhuman is entry Chest-deep/Submerged level for a PC in my game. At higher Refresh (10+), Supernaturals are fair game.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 22, 2011, 03:50:53 AM
I recommend taking a stunt. You can swap stunts at every milestone, so they make good choices for the indecisive.

Plus, a stunt would add flavour to your combat style. Faris is currently pretty bland, mechanically speaking. (His fluff is cool, but his stats are mostly just standard bruiser stuff.)

PS: I don't understand why an IoP would give Claws. Why not just give the gauntlets a weapon rating?
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 22, 2011, 09:37:34 AM
He only has Inhuman level powers. His parent is pretty uber, I'd admit but the PC isn't quite that level yet.
But I'd also advise getting some stunts to shore up the lower level skills like Discipline and Lore. A situational +2 to Discipline or Lore can be quite useful.

Indeed, given this is a game where in our first story we've faced ghouls, uber-ghouls, a Changeling with Supernatural Speed and a Black Court Vampire, not that big a deal.

If I were looking for a Skill-boosting Stunt (not a bad idea), I'd be more concerned with those at +1 and +2, rather than +3 (I think Discipline is high enough). I have been considering Finely Tuned Third Eye for "monster detection". Though when we've got two other PCs with very high Lore, it does seem a little redundant.

Well, I must admit I come from a game where Supernatural X is banned for PC's.  Having all four Inhumans, with significant rebates from catch and other stuff is considered very strong for a PC where I come from.

As toturi says:

Inhuman is entry Chest-deep/Submerged level for a PC in my game. At higher Refresh (10+), Supernaturals are fair game.

It's entry level; three of the five PCs have Inhuman stats, and we're currently at 9 Refresh.

As an alternative to going the IoP route to give you an Strength-proof weapon, you could go the Claws route.  This would probably involve a bit of retraining: you'd want to swap Weapons and Fists (and possibly even allow Weapons to degrade over time due to disuse) and either 'forget' your stunt or replace it with something else.  A nice bennie to this is that the claws could be concealed by your Human Form.

If you really like the weapon schtick (which I get the impression you do), then this option is not for you, of course.

That was originally my plan (though it would be supernaturally hardened fists, rather than sprouting claws), but the Emissary already has fists of stone, and for the moment being the unarmed fighter is sort of her schtick (though she's not specced for combat).

It feels to me like going down that route is taking him closer to becoming like his father, who I presume doesn't bother himself with carrying weapons around. If weapon-breakage with Supernatural Strength turns out to be really problematic, I might just go Claws and switch to Fists (which is also pretty high anyway) as primary.

I recommend taking a stunt. You can swap stunts at every milestone, so they make good choices for the indecisive.

Plus, a stunt would add flavour to your combat style. Faris is currently pretty bland, mechanically speaking. (His fluff is cool, but his stats are mostly just standard bruiser stuff.)

That's a point, I don't actually need an additional point of Refresh in play, I was doing just fine on Compel-fuel (hitting 4 FPs at one point and keeping it at that level). You can swap them for a point of Refresh or a power, can't you?

I could always get it now and switch it for Supernatural Strength when we have our next Major Milestone (possibly at the end of the next story) and an additional point of Refresh.

I'm wondering about something like this:

Weapon Master: +1 Stress with hand-held weapons and +2 to Weapons-based maneuvers.

Or get Wrestler for that boost to my unarmed utility.

PS: I don't understand why an IoP would give Claws. Why not just give the gauntlets a weapon rating?

Reskinning Claws was the simplest option at the time. Net effect is identical, it's Weapon:2 for Fists attacks.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: CottbusFiles on December 22, 2011, 01:26:13 PM
I personally find it strange that Dracul doesn't have Wings and maybe Hulking Size (shapeshifting), just something to think about.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 22, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
I personally find it strange that Dracul doesn't have Wings and maybe Hulking Size (shapeshifting), just something to think about.

He might do, but I've no intention of ever taking either of those if he does. Right now I'm thinking that beyond expanding the building blocks I already have, I won't be branching out further into the other areas covered.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 23, 2011, 02:11:36 AM
Alternatively you can stick with Weapons but go ranged with a IOP that gives a reskinned Breath Weapon (an IOP weapon with a Mjollnir-type return to thrower enchantment).

Your physical defenses are pretty good with respect to the Refresh level of your game, a straight up +5 with Weapons or a +4+1(with Inhuman Speed). Without knowing what house Powers there are in your game, I am assuming there aren't any magical Social attack vectors. From my view, your Mental stress track is vulnerable, which is why I suggested you get a stunt to boost your Discipline. Personally I'd go with defense over offense, but that is personal preference.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 23, 2011, 11:05:11 AM
Alternatively you can stick with Weapons but go ranged with a IOP that gives a reskinned Breath Weapon (an IOP weapon with a Mjollnir-type return to thrower enchantment).

I like that idea a lot. To be honest the only thing I'd really want out of an IoP is the Unbreakable quality (no Supernatural Strength-based Compels for breakage!), but that would be a neat direction to take some additional powers to soak up the discounts.

I'm thinking simply Breath Weapon [-2], Good Arm (YS156) [-1] and the Discount [+2] for a simple [-1] Item of Power. Probably an axe, that makes sense for something that can be thrown.

Or perhaps instead of Good Arm it should have a 1-point Power which gives +1 to hit when thrown and +1 range?

EDIT: Actually I'm not sure Breath Weapon works so well, at least so far as it not allowing you to add Inhuman/Supernatural Strength to it. Any thrown weapon normally allows you to add that; so what we're really looking for is a "returns to hand" Power rather than a "strike at range" Power.

For three points of Refresh, shouldn't there be 4-6 Shifts worth of stuff in a Power? So how does this sound for a total -3 Refresh package:
[-1] Returns to hand
[-1] +1 to Weapons rolls when thrown, +1 Zone to range
[-1] Supernatural Senses - detects a particular sort of foe

I reckon between them the first two are a total 2-points and the last is for flavour. Perhaps it should be stored in a dedicatd "sword space" in the Nevernever or something? Is that worthy of a whole point of Refresh?

Your physical defenses are pretty good with respect to the Refresh level of your game, a straight up +5 with Weapons or a +4+1(with Inhuman Speed). Without knowing what house Powers there are in your game, I am assuming there aren't any magical Social attack vectors. From my view, your Mental stress track is vulnerable, which is why I suggested you get a stunt to boost your Discipline. Personally I'd go with defense over offense, but that is personal preference.

We'll see how the game goes as far as mental attacks go; I've just upped my track by one getting Conviction and my Good (+3) Discipline is the second best of any of the PCs in the game (the Wizard and WCV have Great (+4), but no one else has anything near that).
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 23, 2011, 08:56:37 PM
I don't see the problem with breaking your weapon, actually. The FP ought to make it worth it.

Weapon Master is bland and a bit too powerful.

IoP looks mechanically decent but uninteresting. It doesn't even have a name.

Hm, I just had a stunt idea that I quite like. Not sure if you'd be interested, but I might as well post it here.

Weapons:

Blade-Shattering Force: Your strikes are so powerful that they sometimes destroy the weapons you use to make them. When you successfully hit someone with a close-combat Weapons attack, you may choose to have your weapon break. If you do so, the attack inflicts three additional stress.

Not entirely certain of balance here. But I like the idea enough to post it anyway.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Tedronai on December 23, 2011, 10:22:45 PM
It's basically Killer Blow translated to weapons, with the once/scene restriction replaced by the fact that it can only be 'paid' with the FP that would otherwise be generated by the compel of a broken weapon.
I think it should be reasonably balanced.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 24, 2011, 12:23:43 AM
I don't see the problem with breaking your weapon, actually. The FP ought to make it worth it.

As long as I have alternate weapon, it's fine. Otherwise I'm down to Fists (which is now the lesser of my two combat Skills). So that's a hit in both accuracy and damage.

Weapon Master is bland and a bit too powerful.

It's little different to other Stunts I've seen in SotC; +1 Stress isn't anywhere near as significant as +1 Skill, and +2 to Maneuvers is about equivalent to a +1 Stress. So not really too powerful.

Can't say I'm bothered about bland, "colour" comes from my Aspects, not my Stunts/Powers.

IoP looks mechanically decent but uninteresting. It doesn't even have a name.

Again I don't care about interesting, but useful. It doesn't have a name because I hadn't even gotten that far in my thinking about it, only as far as a collection of Powers that might make sense together.

Hm, I just had a stunt idea that I quite like. Not sure if you'd be interested, but I might as well post it here.

Weapons:

Blade-Shattering Force: Your strikes are so powerful that they sometimes destroy the weapons you use to make them. When you successfully hit someone with a close-combat Weapons attack, you may choose to have your weapon break. If you do so, the attack inflicts three additional stress.

Not entirely certain of balance here. But I like the idea enough to post it anyway.

It's balanced, insofar as it's very similar to Killer Blow. But it's also a poor trade, IMO, I'd rather have an FP than a measly extra point of Stress.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Tedronai on December 24, 2011, 12:45:34 AM
It's little different to other Stunts I've seen in SotC; +1 Stress isn't anywhere near as significant as +1 Skill, and +2 to Maneuvers is about equivalent to a +1 Stress. So not really too powerful.

It would, in my opinion, be reasonably balanced if it were to include some substantive restriction beyond 'with hand-held weapons / Weapons-based maneuvers'.
In the absence of such restrictions, however, I, too, must conclude that it is overpowered.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 24, 2011, 12:52:49 AM
EDIT: Actually I'm not sure Breath Weapon works so well, at least so far as it not allowing you to add Inhuman/Supernatural Strength to it. Any thrown weapon normally allows you to add that; so what we're really looking for is a "returns to hand" Power rather than a "strike at range" Power.
I think Breath Weapon does allow you to add Inhuman/Supernatural Strength to it. It is how I run it in my game. If your GM runs the power differently, then maybe another Stunt/Power will be better.

I have a suggestion for an alternate Weapon Master.
Weapon Master : + 2 Stress with melee weapons against opponents with lower Weapon skill, +1 Stress with melee weapons against opponents with equal Weapon skill. There is no effect on opponents of greater skill. (modified and reskinned Lethal Weapon)
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 24, 2011, 05:06:58 AM
The resemblance between Killer Blow and Blade-Shattering Force is superficial. Breaking your weapon isn't worth a FP when you have another weapon at hand, which you almost certainly will if you intend to use this stunt.

Combined with a stunt that lets you ignore supplemental penalties for drawing weapons, it's a fairly universal +3 stress. Which might be a bit too much. Hence my worry. I'm probably just being paranoid, though.

I quite like toturi's new version of Weapon Master, assuming that "Weapon skill" is expanded to include Guns and Fists. It's too broad otherwise.

It's still pretty broad after my proposed change, but not more so than I can accept.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 24, 2011, 10:43:11 AM
The resemblance between Killer Blow and Blade-Shattering Force is superficial. Breaking your weapon isn't worth a FP when you have another weapon at hand, which you almost certainly will if you intend to use this stunt.

Combined with a stunt that lets you ignore supplemental penalties for drawing weapons, it's a fairly universal +3 stress. Which might be a bit too much. Hence my worry. I'm probably just being paranoid, though.


Balanced or no, it sounds like a pretty much worthless expenditure of a point of Refresh. Pay Refresh for perhaps a one-off +3 Stress in a conflict. That's totally useless when I can get +2 to hit (better than a damage bonus and also additional Shifts which equal Stress) simply by spending an FP on a relevant Aspect. In other words, just as pointless as Killer Blow, but at least it doesn't also cost an FP to use.

I'd get better economy out of taking a Compel on my High Aspect for a weapon breaking and applying another FP to the roll in which it broke.

+1 Stress with melee weapons using the Weapons Skill is not powerful. There's a Stunt in LoA, Military Training, that does exactly that. For the same price, I could simply take Claws, have an un-disarm-able Weapon:2 available all the time and no longer need to use the Weapons Skill altogether.

It isn't much different from Off-hand Weapon Training, barring that it doesn't require a second weapon. Indeed, I could probably get more from Off-hand Weapon Training if I were using two huge weapons that required Inhuman Strength to swing one-handed in the first place, since it rounds up the damage of the second weapon.

A Stunt should be worth a Shift, maybe a Shift-and-a-half (because most of the base FATE games have very coarse grains to them). A general +1 Stress is half a Shift; +2 to maneuvers is one Shift. If we were really concerned about the combination, then +1 Stress and +1 to maneuvers would be 1-Shift's worth.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 24, 2011, 12:58:43 PM
Killer Blow, IMO, is the bottom feeder of Stunts. It is nearly, in almost all circumstances, the worse choice. By comparison, nearly any other Stunt is better. If we are to make use of Killer Blow as a gauge, then I feel that it would be wise to use it as the lower bound of the power level of a Stunt. Any worse than Killer Blow will make the stunt absolutely craptacular.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: computerking on December 24, 2011, 02:05:17 PM
I think I know what I don't like about Blade-Shattering Force: It lacks a proper triggering condition. Just successfully hitting with a melee weapon isn't specific enough. Combine that with the at-will utility of the stung and it's "Here, have +3." If the stunt were only usable if the GM has compelled your enhanced strength to break your weapon, it would be more stunt-y (Plus, you'd have gotten a Fate point to boot!)

So maybe this way:

Quote
Blade-Shattering Force: Your strikes are so powerful that they sometimes destroy the weapons you use to make them. When your weapon breaks due to a compel from the GM, . If you do so, the attack inflicts three additional stress.

...would work better. Any opinions?
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 24, 2011, 03:57:26 PM
Killer Blow, IMO, is the bottom feeder of Stunts. It is nearly, in almost all circumstances, the worse choice. By comparison, nearly any other Stunt is better. If we are to make use of Killer Blow as a gauge, then I feel that it would be wise to use it as the lower bound of the power level of a Stunt. Any worse than Killer Blow will make the stunt absolutely craptacular.

True enough.

Were I to rehabilitate Killer Blow, I'd make it add 4 or even 5 Stress to a hit on the expenditure of an FP.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 24, 2011, 03:59:02 PM
I think I know what I don't like about Blade-Shattering Force: It lacks a proper triggering condition. Just successfully hitting with a melee weapon isn't specific enough. Combine that with the at-will utility of the stung and it's "Here, have +3." If the stunt were only usable if the GM has compelled your enhanced strength to break your weapon, it would be more stunt-y (Plus, you'd have gotten a Fate point to boot!)

So maybe this way:

...would work better. Any opinions?

It's now even more conditional; why would I spend a point of Refresh on it?
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 25, 2011, 03:41:38 AM
No.

Look, BBF is totally underpowered if you aren't using it more or less every time you attack. So if you take it, you should be carrying more swords than a sword store. And you should use a new one every exchange.

The reason I was unsure of its balance is that it could be underpowered due to its big drawback or overpowered due to its universal applicability.

And yes, Killer Blow sucks.

PS: @Kiero: Have you read the stunt creation guidelines for DFRPG? It sounds as though you are working from the rules of other games here.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 25, 2011, 01:10:28 PM
No.

Look, BBF is totally underpowered if you aren't using it more or less every time you attack. So if you take it, you should be carrying more swords than a sword store. And you should use a new one every exchange.

The reason I was unsure of its balance is that it could be underpowered due to its big drawback or overpowered due to its universal applicability.

And yes, Killer Blow sucks.

I could see that working in a more humorous game, where the PC could have a "weapons caddy" who carries a big bag of arms around with them.

"Hmmm, the bastard sword this time, Manners."

"Sir, you broke the bastard sword when we fought that slime demon last week."

"Oh, I liked that sword. Alright, how about the Scottish broadsword?"

PS: @Kiero: Have you read the stunt creation guidelines for DFRPG? It sounds as though you are working from the rules of other games here.

Honestly, not in any real detail, I'm going off what I've done in other FATE games like SBA/LoA and SoF.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: benign on December 25, 2011, 08:13:46 PM
An interesting discussion of stunt design by the makers of the FATE system can be found here (http://www.faterpg.com/dl/df/stunts.html). It's obviously a generic FATE thing and not expressly meant for DFRPG, but it's completely compatible with what is said in the book. It's a good read for someone developing stunts from scratch.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 26, 2011, 03:00:47 AM
Look, BBF is totally underpowered if you aren't using it more or less every time you attack. So if you take it, you should be carrying more swords than a sword store. And you should use a new one every exchange.

The reason I was unsure of its balance is that it could be underpowered due to its big drawback or overpowered due to its universal applicability.
I would think that carrying more swords than sword store would come with its own Compels. Namely Compels to make the character lose all those weapons or get the character into trouble if he wants to hold on to them. So in order to have "universal applicability", you need to jump through a whole series of other flaming hoops. BBF as it is totally underpowered no matter how you look at it.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Mojosilver on December 26, 2011, 03:47:03 AM
If you are worried about be like other players in your game. how about making your PC a ninja/assassin type PC. you said you use stealth and Intimidation a lot. i read about a reformed assassin turned holy man. he carry a belt full of knives. all kinds of knives. silver, iron, holy,and poisoned to name a few.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 26, 2011, 07:28:42 AM
@Kiero:

I like the sword caddy idea. Once we get the ally stunt rules done, I'm making that guy.

And I think it'd be well worth rereading the DFRPG stunt rules. They are evidently at least a little different.

@benign:

Looks like a good summary. It's a lot like the one in the book, actually.

Are you sure it's not DFRPG specific? It has df in the url.

@toturi:

Ugh, no. I hate that argument so much. Compels are not bad things and being compellable is not a weakness.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: benign on December 26, 2011, 07:32:45 AM
@sanc: It's by the Fate guys, but they mentioned somewhere that it can't be specifically for the DFRPG because they don't have the license to reproduce anything directly from the books or for the game. So instead it's DF with the serial numbers filed off to suit anyone playing any of the FATE derived games.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 26, 2011, 11:42:55 AM
@toturi:

Ugh, no. I hate that argument so much. Compels are not bad things and being compellable is not a weakness.
I disagree but this will have to be one of the things we have to agree to disagree on. I think that Compels are not good things and being compellable is not necessarily a strength.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Tedronai on December 26, 2011, 03:53:47 PM
Compels do not have to be good things in order for them not to be bad things.
They do not have to be strengths in order for them not to be weaknesses.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: computerking on December 26, 2011, 06:53:17 PM
@Kiero:

I like the sword caddy idea. Once we get the ally stunt rules done, I'm making that guy.


Oooh! Name him Patsy!
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Mojosilver on December 27, 2011, 08:00:43 PM
Two things i have not see.(but may have missed) is to buy back your catch. go from holy stuff (+2) to true faith (+1) to sword of the cross (+0). or you could keep your refresh for more fate points. that way you do not have to deal with compelling as much.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Kiero on December 27, 2011, 11:12:11 PM
Two things i have not see.(but may have missed) is to buy back your catch. go from holy stuff (+2) to true faith (+1) to sword of the cross (+0). or you could keep your refresh for more fate points. that way you do not have to deal with compelling as much.

Nah, to be honest I'd rather have more powers than have a less inconvenient Catch. Spare Refresh isn't really needed either, there's rich enough Compel material in my existing Aspects to get by just fine for FPs.

Compels aren't a bad thing, they're a reward for complications I want to happen. Haven't found reason to say no to one yet.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 28, 2011, 02:33:50 AM
Compels aren't a bad thing, they're a reward for complications I want to happen. Haven't found reason to say no to one yet.
I agree that they aren't bad if the complications are those that you want and at a degree that you expect.

For example, breaking a weapon. If you want the complication of breaking the weapon and you are ready for it with spare weapons, then getting an FP for weapon breakage isn't bad. But if the GM decides that that's too easy, and the only time you are going to get the FP is if you break your only weapon, then the Compel isn't as welcome, is it?
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: Tedronai on December 28, 2011, 02:41:11 AM
If the only thing that breaking your weapon does is to force you to take a supplemental action penalty on your next turn's actions (because you have to draw one of the 50 extra weapons you pack into your hammerspace just for this occasion), then that's YS would describe as a 'weak compel' and not worth gaining a FP for.
Title: Re: How should I develop my character's powers?
Post by: toturi on December 28, 2011, 03:06:03 AM
If the only thing that breaking your weapon does is to force you to take a supplemental action penalty on your next turn's actions (because you have to draw one of the 50 extra weapons you pack into your hammerspace just for this occasion), then that's YS would describe as a 'weak compel' and not worth gaining a FP for.
And there is where I think the problem lies. The more likely/more easily the character is able to overcome the Compel, the more likely the GM will call a weak Compel.
In my example, even sacrificing a supplemental action to draw another weapon as well as being able to have the weapons at hand in the first place does not seem to be complication enough to be worth gaining an FP for.