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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 19, 2011, 09:22:00 AM

Title: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 19, 2011, 09:22:00 AM
First off I will start off with saying(and i hope that this doesn't constitute any type of spoiler) this is in no way based off of a certain character from changes. I actually had this idea when this system first came out but have never made him because I don't have a group to play with. Now that that's been said on to the concept.

Ok I have a fairly good idea of what I want to build just not really sure how to go about it I.E. what's feasible, what I'll have to compromise on and what I'll have to sacrifice. I'll do little bits and pieces so no one runs away with this idea from where I'm trying to take him.

First off he will be a sword fighter who doesn't ever use guns(some funny Aspect like Brings a Knife to a Gun Fight). Most likely a Japanese Katana (possible Item of Power route if I can get away with it). Stealthy Hunter type preferable but can also go the Jump Head First route if need be.

Now that you have a basis for where I want to start lets get to the tricky part. He will be a magic user but not in the way of most so possibly more of a Focused Practitioner than a Minor Talent. He will internalize magic to up his melee prowess and capabilities I.E. Air to make him faster, Earth to harden his skin etc. Maybe some form of Channeling? This is where I'm getting a bit lost. Any thoughts? Template? Is this even possible? Well obviously it is because of that
(click to show/hide)
. I'll leave out the rest for now lets just start with this.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 19, 2011, 09:40:06 AM
I wrote a power for things like this after Ghost Story came out.

I think that this is about the fifth time I've recommended it to someone.

MAGICAL SELF-ENHANCEMENT [+varies]
Description: Many supernatural abilities can be mimicked through an application of spellcasting. But that requires specialization, of the sort that this power represents.
Musts: A character must possess the Evocation, Channeling, and/or Sponsored Magic powers in order to use this one. Other powers to link this power to are also required.
Skills Affected: Conviction, Discipline, Lore
Effects:
Limited Powers. When you take this power, you must select at least one other supernatural power that you possess. Which powers may be selected with this power is a matter of the GM's discretion. The selected powers are disabled, and the character gets a rebate equal to one-third of the powers' total cost.
Magical Self-Enhancement. This power allows the user to grant themselves access to the selected powers through evocation. Such evocations may be of any element that makes sense, and they may be offensive or defensive. The power required of an evocation that grants powers is equal to the total refresh cost of the granted powers plus the intended duration. The user may extend this effect using the normal rules for the extension of evocation, and they may choose to grant themselves only a few of the selected powers. This also allows them to grant lesser versions of the selected powers. For example, a character who had selected Supernatural Strength and Inhuman Speed with this power may grant themselves Inhuman Strength for 5 exchanges with a 7-shift evocation.
Magical Enhancement [-varies]. This option removes the rebate from Magical Self-Enhancement, making the total cost of the power 0. In exchange, it gives the user the ability to cast power-granting evocations on other characters. Please note that these evocations cannot be zone-wide.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 19, 2011, 10:21:09 AM
Yeah thats pretty darn close. Ok I'm still a bit confused about a few points but feel free to ignore me or tell me to "READ A BOOK" as Mr. Handy(The Tick) might say. So I'm looking at probably superhuman speed and toughness. I could probably do without strength and recovery if I had to as that might be a bit overkill? So would you go with Channeling twice(for Earth and Air I suppose) or Evocation with Refinement? I must admit I'm not completely sure how this all works.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Pbartender on December 19, 2011, 05:05:20 PM
An easy way to go about this might be to take the Modular Abilities power (YS 177).  It a "shapeshifting" ability that allows you to pre-pay a number of refresh points.  Then, you can take a full action to assign or re-assign those refresh points on abilities from Creature Features, certain Minor Abilities, Speed, Strength, Toughness, etc.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 19, 2011, 08:41:45 PM
You can take whatever physical powers you like (as long as the GM agrees). They're roughly balanced against one another, so there are no stupid choices.

You can't take Channelling twice though, and you shouldn't want to. Evocation is better in every way.

Does that help?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 12:26:43 AM
I just woke up but I think so? I'll have to look at it again in a little bit. To be completely honest some of the character creation aspects confuse me.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: sinker on December 20, 2011, 12:38:00 AM
While I really like magical self-enhancement, I thought I'd mention that you could also just take those powers (strength, toughness and speed) and simply use your spellcasting as an excuse. This would be comparable to Billy and the Alphas, who have Beast change, but according to Bob are just focused spellcasters.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 02:51:11 AM
sinker speaks truth.

Anyway, if you have any other questions do not hesitate to ask them.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 02:55:00 AM
So your saying that since I wouldn't(most likely) cast spells normally I could take the supernatural abilities and claim them though my inherent internalized magic?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: computerking on December 20, 2011, 02:58:50 AM
Quote from: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 02:55:00 AM
So your saying that since I wouldn't(most likely) cast spells normally I could take the supernatural abilities and claim them though my inherent internalized magic?
Yup, that's what they're saying.Makes for interesting character flavor, if you make sure an aspect or two point to possible compell-able issues (Like "Weakened By Thresholds" or "Boy, Running Water Saps My Strength") to reflect the Spell-centric nature of the powers.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 03:09:37 AM
Hmm...But then I'd start out with at a bare minimum -8 or 10 which i can't do as a pc...how can i make this a bit more manageable?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 03:18:14 AM
I don't understand the problem.

Could you please explain?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 03:25:31 AM
I'll try. Ok if my character concept is that due to my internalization of magic (as opposed to externalization which would be normal spell slinging) I gain the abilities of hardened skin(natural armor) and greater strength(earth), faster speed and reflexes(air), heightened awareness(spirit) due to my affinity for those elements. But if i took the abilities such as inhuman speed, strength and toughness that would automatically be a -6 refresh rate and thats a little low ability wise anyway. Am I understanding how to do this right?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 03:33:28 AM
Yes, you are.

But what's the problem? Surely you can afford 6 refresh worth of powers, especially with all the rebates available. (The Catch, Human Form, Magical Self-Enhancement, and an Item Of Power would all seem fitting.)
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 03:36:30 AM
AH HA! Thats where I'm losing it. REBATES! ok please explain them.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 03:50:32 AM
Alright.

Some powers are cheaper than free. This is because they are bad to have. They attach to other powers and limit those powers in some way.

For example, The Catch attaches to your Toughness powers and disables them under certain special circumstances. In exchange for accepting this weakness, you get some refresh back.

In effect, rebate powers make your other powers cheaper by limiting them.

Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 03:52:54 AM
I'm with you so far. So since it's Magic that gives me my power Then the weakness for all of them would be thresholds and running water correct?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Silverblaze on December 20, 2011, 04:24:14 AM
Quote from: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 03:52:54 AM
I'm with you so far. So since it's Magic that gives me my power Then the weakness for all of them would be thresholds and running water correct?

That would make sense.

You could also choose an item or substance anathema to your character depending on his/her story...similar to iron to fae, silver to werewolves, or kryptonite to Superman.

EDIT:
Oh uh, yeah...the catch only applies to toughness powers. (toughness, recovery, immunity) So running water/thresholds might be good for that, but if you wanted more rebates you'd have to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 04:25:52 AM
Probably not.

There does not exist a rebate power that works in such a way. I suppose that one could be written, but I'd question its balance.

Rebates that might work for you:

Human Form (the spells that enhance you also alter your body)
Item Of Power (you get your powers from a magic sword)
The Catch (there's something out there that ignores your Toughness)
Magical Self-Enhancement (you need to cast a spell to give yourself powers)
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 04:38:32 AM
OK so here is what I'm proposing and you tell me how we can work it(and if it can't i'll try to figure out one of the other ways you listed). So I think i want to try something that mixes MSE with The Catch but have no spoken incantations just a thought. It is spell like tho since it will be using my magic power. But rebates galore with the catch that my power is extremely limited with thresholds and running water. Not really sure how to word this.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 04:57:33 AM
MSE does not require a spoken incantation. A thought will do just fine. (Assuming I haven't forgotten some part of the core spellcasting rules).

The Catch only applies to Toughness powers.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 04:59:50 AM
Ah thats where I'm messing up. I was trying to say that I would ADD a catch to all of them because of the nature of my power to help balance it?
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2011, 05:08:16 AM
You can't. The Catch is for Toughness only.

I suppose you could write a new power, though.
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: benign on December 20, 2011, 05:12:37 AM
Assuming I am understanding what you are asking for, this is how I would do it.

Step 1: Establishing what your power source is.

As I see it this is best done with aspects. First have your High Concept be something like Auto-Biomancer (meaning essentially that you are a specialized practitioner who uses body-altering magic on yourself). Go ahead and throw something like My Powers are Magic! somewhere on your aspect list to reinforce that. Or don't, if you are pressed for aspects, you really said it all in your High Concept already.

Step 2: Choosing your Powers

I'm going to take what you mentioned earlier: Enhancements for your strength, hardiness, speed, and perception.
For speed we are choosing Inhuman Speed [-2] and for strength we have Inhuman Strength [-2], easy enough. For perception let's choose Supernatural Sense [-1] which lets you see in the dark, echolocate, smell algebra, or whatever you choose as a super-sense, go nuts. That leaves us with Hardiness, which we will simulate with Inhuman Toughness [-2]. Now all toughness powers need what is called a Catch, which means that they need some kryptonite factor that will pierce them. Let's deal with that in step 3.

Step 3: Choose your limitations

We already know we need a catch for your toughness power, so lets choose that first. The Catch can be anything from silver to sunlight and holy water to whatever else you can think of. It gives you a refund of +0 to +4 of the refresh that you spent back, depending on how obvious the weakness is and how easy it is to find. For you we only want a refund of +1, since you can't get more back from the Catch than you spent on Toughness in the first place. I'm going to say that your rocky skin helps to turn aside blades and energy, but not blunt force, which can still shock your bones and internal organs on impact, thus giving your Toughness the Catch Blunt Trauma. It's not obvious because you look so impervious, but is very easy to find, giving it the refund value of +1.

Now we're not done yet, because there is another refund you can take advantage of. Because you must invoke your powers with a transformation, we are taking the Shapechange ability Human Form, which states that your supernatural abilities are unavailable so long as you appear human. When you do access them, you physically change in obvious and threatening ways; your skin takes on the appearance of rock, your eyes and mouth leak fire, and thundercracks accompany the movement of your magically accelerated limbs. Because this leaves you pretty defenseless so long as your abilities aren't activated, it is worth the refund of +1.

 Step 4: Add everything up

And this is what your final powers list looks like:

Human Form [+1] attached to
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Supernatural Sense [-1]
Inhuman Toughness [2]
        The Catch [+1] is blunt trauma.


Total refresh spent: -5

So that handily comes in at just under the lowest refresh level stated in the book, feet in the water. And don't let the fact that you chose the bottom level for your speed, toughness, and strength abilities fool you; you will be a beast in combat. Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Kyrin Lightbringer on December 20, 2011, 05:19:43 AM
Definitely getting closer but not quite there yet. Hmm ok i'll sit down and try to come up with something and you guys can tear it apart and fix it. That i think should be the next step
Title: Re: Help! Character Creation Concept Help.
Post by: Becq on December 20, 2011, 11:23:52 PM
If you want to make a character with physical powers, but have them be Biomancy-generated, another way to do this would be to handle the whole thing via your character's high concept.  That is, give your character a high concept that links his powers to Biomancy, then work with your GM to determine what powers are appropriate.

This does not get you back any refresh (although you can still get The Catch to get a rebate on Toughness powers).  What it does do is give your GM the option to compel your high concept in situations where the nature of your powers is troublesome.  Heavy rain weakens your Supernatural Strength to mere Inhuman levels?  Fate point!  Foe taunts you from across a modest stream?  Fate point!  Sorceror counterspells your Speed?  Fate point!  And then you can turn around and use those Fate points to make your Biomancy-granted capabilities stronger later, by invoking your high concept in your favor.