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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: CottbusFiles on December 18, 2011, 07:49:04 PM
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or any other strongish mythological creature?
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creatures are not items
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Creatures aren't items but personally item of powers for me are just powers imbued into something external so I would allow it for a pet. For a Pegasus I would treat it as an Iop and the horse itself as an extension of the player (for stress and action purposes) so the IoP gives you the wings and speed powers and a power that allows you to substitute survival for athletics (riding).
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creatures are not items
Than how do i do it?
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Than how do i do it?
You get your GM to agree to allowing you to have a pet Pegasus and then represent it with one of your characters aspects. Spend a fate when you want it to do something, accept a compel when it makes your life complicated.
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Tallyrand's idea works pretty well. That's what my group has always used for characters who have a specific NPC friend/partner/spouse/contact who shows up occasionally in the story - stat them out, give the main character an aspect naming the NPC and their relationship, and use invokes and compels to control when that NPC shows up.
Alternative, since this is sort of a pet/mount rather than a human NPC, you could try writing up a custom "Awesome Pet" power or something like that which would define exactly how strong the pet is allowed to be. If you went that route, I would say you could have your pet be in any scene you want (within reason) WITHOUT needing to invoke your aspect, because you already spent refresh on the pet power.
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Tallyrand's idea works pretty well. That's what my group has always used for characters who have a specific NPC friend/partner/spouse/contact who shows up occasionally in the story - stat them out, give the main character an aspect naming the NPC and their relationship, and use invokes and compels to control when that NPC shows up.
Alternative, since this is sort of a pet/mount rather than a human NPC, you could try writing up a custom "Awesome Pet" power or something like that which would define exactly how strong the pet is allowed to be. If you went that route, I would say you could have your pet be in any scene you want (within reason) WITHOUT needing to invoke your aspect, because you already spent refresh on the pet power.
Having a power like that makes more sense i think. Having a character whos pet is maybe a big part of what he does but has a lot of other powers or survival stunts etc. and a low refresh would have problems bringing his pet into play. Any ideas on how to write up such a power? It could be put to good use on a demon summoner
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Well, the thing about making it a power is that you have to split your refresh between you and the pet. So while I understand you not wanting to have a pet that is too weak to contribute in a meaningful way, this solution might just make both you and the pet underpowered and unable to contribute.
Dresden RPG is less dependent on the refresh or "level" of the characters involved than, say, d20 is anyway. In some games a level 4 character will be useless in a party of level 10 characters, in DF a refresh 4 pet can be a huge asset to characters with 10 refresh to spend.
My feeling is that including the pet as a separate entity is going to make you happier than splitting your refresh between yourself and a pet, who will end up with about the same amount of refresh (probably) as if you'd just statted it up separately to begin with.
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If I were to make a power for it, it might be something like this. Game balance is absolutely not guaranteed here, as nobody but me has looked at this.
Companion [-1]
Description: You and another being are inextricably tied. Whether it be a blood brother, a familiar, or something else, the two of you are utterly devoted to one another and your fates are intertwined.
Musts: You must define an NPC character or creature to be your companion. Take an aspect that reflects your tie with it.
Effects:
Ally. Create a character sheet for your companion. It has 2 refresh to spend and half the number of skill points that your character does.
We are as one. You are subject to compels on both the aspect that defines your relationship to your companion and, in some cases, to any aspects that your companion itself has. You may also choose to spend your own fate points on rolls and declarations made by your companion.
Level up [-1]. Your companion gains an additional two refresh to spend on powers and stunts. It's total refresh may not exceed half of yours.
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Having a power like that makes more sense i think. Having a character whos pet is maybe a big part of what he does but has a lot of other powers or survival stunts etc. and a low refresh would have problems bringing his pet into play. Any ideas on how to write up such a power? It could be put to good use on a demon summoner
Going with the pet power isn't a bad idea, but you seem to have missed the utility of the Aspect pet. The important this with the Aspect pet is that it doesn't cost you any refresh, so for that you would just make your low powered/stunty character (perhaps, with GM permission even a Pure Human) and write up a separate sheet for your Pegasus completely independent of your characters Skills and Refresh. Leave 5 or so refresh open on your main character sheet and you can likely count on having your Pegasus at the ready whenever you need it.
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If I were to make a power for it, it might be something like this. Game balance is absolutely not guaranteed here, as nobody but me has looked at this.
Companion [-1]
Description: You and another being are inextricably tied. Whether it be a blood brother, a familiar, or something else, the two of you are utterly devoted to one another and your fates are intertwined.
Musts: You must define an NPC character or creature to be your companion. Take an aspect that reflects your tie with it.
Effects:
Ally. Create a character sheet for your companion. It has 2 refresh to spend and half the number of skill points that your character does.
We are as one. You are subject to compels on both the aspect that defines your relationship to your companion and, in some cases, to any aspects that your companion itself has. You may also choose to spend your own fate points on rolls and declarations made by your companion.
Level up [-1]. Your companion gains an additional two refresh to spend on powers and stunts. It's total refresh may not exceed half of yours.
Yeah this . . . might be pretty OP. Other people will have things to say I'm sure . . .
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If I were to make a power for it, it might be something like this. Game balance is absolutely not guaranteed here, as nobody but me has looked at this.
Companion [-1]
Description: You and another being are inextricably tied. Whether it be a blood brother, a familiar, or something else, the two of you are utterly devoted to one another and your fates are intertwined.
Musts: You must define an NPC character or creature to be your companion. Take an aspect that reflects your tie with it.
Effects:
Ally. Create a character sheet for your companion. It has 2 refresh to spend and half the number of skill points that your character does.
We are as one. You are subject to compels on both the aspect that defines your relationship to your companion and, in some cases, to any aspects that your companion itself has. You may also choose to spend your own fate points on rolls and declarations made by your companion.
Level up [-1]. Your companion gains an additional two refresh to spend on powers and stunts. It's total refresh may not exceed half of yours.
I'm not sure that 'total refresh' is a defined term, so you might want to clarify by adding 'including refresh spent on stunts and powers'
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If I were to make a power for it, it might be something like this. Game balance is absolutely not guaranteed here, as nobody but me has looked at this.
Companion [-1]
Description: You and another being are inextricably tied. Whether it be a blood brother, a familiar, or something else, the two of you are utterly devoted to one another and your fates are intertwined.
Musts: You must define an NPC character or creature to be your companion. Take an aspect that reflects your tie with it.
Effects:
Ally. Create a character sheet for your companion. It has 2 refresh to spend and half the number of skill points that your character does.
We are as one. You are subject to compels on both the aspect that defines your relationship to your companion and, in some cases, to any aspects that your companion itself has. You may also choose to spend your own fate points on rolls and declarations made by your companion.
Level up [-1]. Your companion gains an additional two refresh to spend on powers and stunts. It's total refresh may not exceed half of yours.
In my game I wouldn't allow this power, too much room for abuse. Being able to effectively raise your refresh by 25% seems very powerful, when you factor it that you can also give yourself extra skills and a whole extra set of stress boxes this way it seems likely that it would cause problems. Personally I see this more as a [+1 or +2] but with the limiters of the powers being in a seperate body. Allow the base assumption of all if your allies skills to be Average [+1] but allow additional refresh be spent to raise it's skills to Good [+3] for 1 or Superior [+5] for 2.
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In my game I wouldn't allow this power, too much room for abuse. Being able to effectively raise your refresh by 25% seems very powerful, when you factor it that you can also give yourself extra skills and a whole extra set of stress boxes this way it seems likely that it would cause problems. Personally I see this more as a [+1 or +2] but with the limiters of the powers being in a seperate body. Allow the base assumption of all if your allies skills to be Average [+1] but allow additional refresh be spent to raise it's skills to Good [+3] for 1 or Superior [+5] for 2.
Not that I'm really that attached to my concept, which I banged out in 5 minutes with very little thought given to balance, but I'm not sure it's that OP. Adding more refresh available to your character is nice, but it also means that some of the powers you effectively bought are housed in a body that is less skilled than yours, limiting their use. More skills is definitely good, what if I decreased the amount of skill points available and set the skill cap for your companion to be one lower than yours? And the stress boxes thing is nice but not seemingly amazing, since it doesn't make you personally any more durable. You could still go down without your companion soaking up a single shift of stress.
Again, I'm not saying what I wrote is balanced. I'm just not sure it's as ridiculous as you seem to say it is.
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I see a few ways to handle this.
Aspects: very flexible, but can be less satisfying than a sidekick or pet.
IoP: similar to how ways and means suggested it.
Constructs: There is a comprehensive guide on creating one with thaumaturgy on this site someplace.
Use those rules. Apply a refresh cost to have a pet for a player treat it as a power that (if it dies the players refresh is returned to the player.
House rule it: we on this site may have experience under our belts, but we aren't at your table. We all have differing versions of game balance.
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The aforementioned constuct creation rules. (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24744.msg1084269.html#msg1084269)
An aspect is the best way to handle a pet under the current rules.
I've been wanting to write powers for multiple bodies for a long time. But I've never found a good way to do it.
Companion is a decent start, but I'm pretty sure it isn't balanced. I suggest that you lower the skill cap of the companion as a start.
Anyway, if people are interested in making this into a collaborative project I'm definitely game. I'll call the project a success if it can model all of the following:
A character with a pet
A character with a whole bunch of pets
A character with multiple bodies
A character that can copy itself
A character that can shapeshift into multiple bodies at once
A character with numerous minions
A character and another character statted as a single entity
Tall order, I know. If it was easy, I'd have done it already.
PS: Revlid wrote up a multiple body power that's definitely worth checking out. It's on the master list.
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Just using an Aspect for it doesn't seem very satisfying to me - and powers need to be referenced in Aspects anyway, so it'll still be there. I'd use something like the Item of Power power, but with the same condition that any abilities the Companion has come out of your own Refresh - also I'd give it 2 skill points, plus whatever you give it out of your character's personal stash (ie, the "+2, then split the points between character and external help" applies to skills as well as powers).
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or any other strongish mythological creature?
A mythological creature as an IoP... Is anyone else thinking of Bubo?
(http://www.badassowls.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/bubo2.jpg)
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I feel that the Companion rules in Spirit of the Century would be a good place to start - take the Companion as a Stunt, and keep adding Stunts until it is fair to have a Pegasus.
This page probably does not require some reference to the original SotC rules, but if it does, my apologies:
http://evilhat.wikidot.com/companions-and-minions-reloaded
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How's this for a revision?
Companion [-1]
Description: You and another being are inextricably tied. Whether it be a blood brother, a familiar, or something else, the two of you are utterly devoted to one another and your fates are intertwined.
Musts: You must define an NPC character or creature to be your companion. Take an aspect that reflects your tie with it.
Effects:
Ally. Create a character sheet for your companion. It has 2 refresh to spend and 3 skills at Average (+1). It must have a high concept, which decides what kind of powers (if any) it has access to.
Training. You may spend skill points to improve your ally's skills. You must follow the skill pyramid rules as normal, and your companion's skills are capped one level below your own (so if your skills are capped at Great, your ally may not possess a skill better than Good).
We are as one. You are subject to compels on the aspect that defines your relationship to your companion and, in some cases, to any aspects that your companion itself has. You may choose to spend your own fate points on rolls and declarations made by your companion. Your companion may not possess fate points from compels, because of unspent refresh during milestones, or for any other reason.
Level Up [-1]. Your companion gains an additional two refresh to spend on powers and stunts. If you have more than one companion, you may split this refresh among them in any way you desire. The total refresh spent by your companions may not exceed half of your available refresh, including refresh spent on powers, stunts, and Companion powers.
The More the Merrier [-1]. You gain another companion. It starts with 2 refresh to spend and 3 skills at Average, just like your original companion, and may be improved via Level Up. The total refresh spent by your companions may not exceed half of your available refresh, including refresh spent on powers, stunts, and Companion powers.
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@SunlessNick: An aspect is not a perfect solution, or even a good one. But it is the best available right now. If you'd like to elaborate on your power idea, I'm listening.
@devonapple: Thanks muchly. That will be helpful.
@benign: A definite improvement. But don't ask me if it's actually good, because I can't tell.
@everyone: Which sorts of effect should be stunts and which should be powers? As a preliminary thought, maybe stunts could give semi-independent characters that can be given orders but not controlled action to action. Powers would give total control.
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Do you have to have a separate skill pyramid for your companion or do they fall into your own skill pyramid?
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@Sanctaphrax: I'd be interested in a colloborative effort to create a system for what you posted about.
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I would allow someone to split there refresh and base skills on refresh level so a ten refresh character could have two characters at feet at the water level (with IoP or pure mortal bonus).
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Okay, looks like there's enough interest for us to do this.
I think we can probably model everything that we need to model with five powers/stunt trees.
-A Survival stunt tree that gives you pets. The base stunt could give you a small dog or a bird. Upgrades could go all the way up to a pack of wolves or a lesser dragon. Or a team of Pokemon.
-A Presence/Contacts/Resources stunt tree that gives you minions. The base stunt could give you a secretary. Upgrades could go all the way to a private army or Kincaid.
-A Lore stunt tree that gives you bound spirits and other magical creatures. The base stunt could give you Toot-Toot. Upgrades could go all the way to a genie in a lamp or The Za-Lord's Guard.
-A shapeshifting power that lets you transform into multiple bodies. Depending on the variant, this could either let you clone yourself (like Naruto), let you split yourself (like Twinrova), or let you create an army of minions (like the Sliver Queen).
-A power that represents having multiple bodies normally. Could be used for a hive mind or just for two characters played by one player. The bodies may or may not be identical to one another.
Have I missed anything?
If not, there's one thing that we need to work out immediately. Should the abilities of a minion depend upon the abilities of the original character or upon the amount of refresh invested or upon both?
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Has anyone looked at the 'Strange Fate' rules for companions in the Fate edition of Kerberos Club?
They'd probably take a bit of modification as the rules for skill tiers and 'strange skills' etc might conflict with the DFRPG rules. But it should allow 'powered' companions much more easily than the SotC rules would (I must admit I haven't looked at SotC for a while so can't remember the exact wording of the relevant stunt off the top of my head).