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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Don on November 13, 2011, 08:14:10 AM
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I think this is the best section to post this question..
In order for a book to be considered "Urban Fantasy" how strictly does it have to follow the rules of what's out there already?
For example, if a novel is set in modern times but doesn't follow the first person, single POV model and also takes place in a number of places including but not limited to cities, can it still be categorized as "Urban Fantasy"?
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Yes
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There are lots of UFs that aren't in first person. Harry Connolly's Twenty Palaces series, Thomas Sniegoski's Remy Chandler series, the Skinners series by Marcus Pelegrimas are some I can think of off the top of my head.
The defining features of UF isn't the POV-that's rarely something that defines any genre/subgenre. Mostly it's more the content, and with UF it's a very much debated thing of what it is.
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Writing is whatever genre fits it best. Urban Fantasy is a pretty descriptive name. Fantasy that takes place in an urban environment. Beyond that, whatever works. Descriptions of genres are always hazy because they need to be stretchable.
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And most places will call it urban fantasy even if it's in a country setting. As long as it's modern-day fantasy, it gets called "urban fantasy".
But let's be real. In the strictest sense, it doesn't matter. When was the last time you were in a bookstore that had an urban fantasy section? It's fantasy to the booksellers.
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And most places will call it urban fantasy even if it's in a country setting. As long as it's modern-day fantasy, it gets called "urban fantasy".
But let's be real. In the strictest sense, it doesn't matter. When was the last time you were in a bookstore that had an urban fantasy section? It's fantasy to the booksellers.
Last Month... Sadly that was the last bookstore I've been to. Books cost money I don't have...
I'm curious, would you call fantasy in a modern setting but not on earth Urban Fantasy. (Note that my own writing aside I've never seen this, except when half the story is in some rendition of fairyland, it's still earth based though.)(As is almost all Speculative fiction(given that there seems to be more Sci-Fi than fantasy and lots of Urban fantasy). Most High Fantasy and some very rare Sci-Fi are the rare exceptions.)
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Maybe I should've said major bookstore. Borders doesn't, neither does Atlantic Booksellers, nor do any of the small bookstores in my area though naturally I haven't checked them all.
The point remains. It's immaterial. When you're querying an agent, even if it's demonstrably urban fantasy, you can call it "fantasy" and still get representation.
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Maybe I should've said major bookstore. Borders doesn't, neither does Atlantic Booksellers, nor do any of the small bookstores in my area though naturally I haven't checked them all.
The point remains. It's immaterial. When you're querying an agent, even if it's demonstrably urban fantasy, you can call it "fantasy" and still get representation.
Sorry, I was just being snarky. Book World where I live throws Dresden in with all the paranormal romances and I find it both funny and annoying.
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I'm curious, would you call fantasy in a modern setting but not on earth Urban Fantasy. (Note that my own writing aside I've never seen this, except when half the story is in some rendition of fairyland, it's still earth based though.)(As is almost all Speculative fiction(given that there seems to be more Sci-Fi than fantasy and lots of Urban fantasy). Most High Fantasy and some very rare Sci-Fi are the rare exceptions.)
The Pearl saga by Eric Lustbader somewhat fits, but it's more of a Sci-Fi Fantasy than Urban Fantasy. A Space-faring caste based race conquers and occupies a low tech planet where a small percent of natives can use magic.
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There is a series about a female FBI agent that gets taken to a parallel earth that I believe is still considered Urban Fantasy. ( I don't remember the name of the series. The world is mostly populated by werewolves and vampires with humans being the minority. ) Let's face it. Much of Urban Fantasy alters the cities enough that they aren't really on this world.
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There is a series about a female FBI agent that gets taken to a parallel earth that I believe is still considered Urban Fantasy. ( I don't remember the name of the series. The world is mostly populated by werewolves and vampires with humans being the minority. ) Let's face it. Much of Urban Fantasy alters the cities enough that they aren't really on this world.
I have the first book of that series. I forget the title, but the premise is that the agent gets pulled across to solve a mystery, something like disappearing vampires, I think.
Urban Fantasy is pretty versatile as a sub genre. It started, or most authors I've heard talk about it agree, with stuff like Borderlands and Charles deLint(sp?), and it morphed to mean werewolves and vampires with Laurell K Hamilton, and now includes pretty much anything you can think of that's set in a more modern setting.
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There are lots of UFs that aren't in first person. Harry Connolly's Twenty Palaces series, Thomas Sniegoski's Remy Chandler series, the Skinners series by Marcus Pelegrimas are some I can think of off the top of my head.
The defining features of UF isn't the POV-that's rarely something that defines any genre/subgenre. Mostly it's more the content, and with UF it's a very much debated thing of what it is.
Harry Connolly's Twenty Palaces series is most definitely in first person.
I agree that urban fantasy does not have to be in first person.
I don't know how to multi-quote, but your comment on Charles de Lint had me intrigued. I thought for sure Emma Bull's "The War of the Oaks" preceded his work, but it does not. De Lint's "Moonheart" came out 3 years before.
CS Lewis' "That Hideous Strength" might technically be urban fantasy, since the bad scientists are working for demonic entities, but most don't think of the work as such.
Charles Williams (a not so famous Inkling) wrote what look like urban fantasies, but I have not read them. I heard they were difficult to get into.
HP Lovecraft would technically be urban fantasy, but usually is considered horror. Or maybe his own special category - Lovecraftian (which the Twenty Palace series sort of belongs too, also).
The urban fantasy Dracula is technically a epistolary novel, composed of newspaper clippings, diary entries, letters and so forth. (Hmm, I seem to have almost exactly quoted the Wikipedia entry by accident.)
Maybe I'm thread hijacking, sorry.
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In general I think the Urban is less a phase indicating it's restrictive to Urban settings (ie cities) and more about being a (near-)modern day thing, and generally earth based, though I could see it stretching to cover off-world and other such things to a point, but there would need to be some recognizable connection to a contemporary earth society. I mean, Codex Alera is technically set in modern day on an alien planet with a wormhole attached to earth, but you arent going to get that purely from the text; would have to see author interviews and such to know it; it reads like a high-fantasy bordering on Roman historical fiction.
By contrast I used to read a comic book that was another planet from earth, and was basically humans in a modern world, just run by magic instead of science. So cops still had trench-coats and carried badges, but they were powerful shield charms, not just social symbols.
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In general I think the Urban is less a phase indicating it's restrictive to Urban settings (ie cities) and more about being a (near-)modern day thing, and generally earth based, though I could see it stretching to cover off-world and other such things to a point, but there would need to be some recognizable connection to a contemporary earth society. I mean, Codex Alera is technically set in modern day on an alien planet with a wormhole attached to earth, but you arent going to get that purely from the text; would have to see author interviews and such to know it; it reads like a high-fantasy bordering on Roman historical fiction.
By contrast I used to read a comic book that was another planet from earth, and was basically humans in a modern world, just run by magic instead of science. So cops still had trench-coats and carried badges, but they were powerful shield charms, not just social symbols.
Quantas,
Is that the series which the Sci-fi channel did a movie where Kevin Sorbo was dressed alarmingly like Harry, but with the hat from the covers of the books and the duster was made of what looked like gabardine.
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Quantas,
Is that the series which the Sci-fi channel did a movie where Kevin Sorbo was dressed alarmingly like Harry, but with the hat from the covers of the books and the duster was made of what looked like gabardine.
Lol, no I was talking about one of those old Crossgen Comics they had briefly. But that Kevin Sorbo thing sounds fantastically terrible, ill have to track it down :D
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Lol, no I was talking about one of those old Crossgen Comics they had briefly. But that Kevin Sorbo thing sounds fantastically terrible, ill have to track it down :D
Its called Paradox. You must have seen it because your review is perfect. ::) ::)
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I have most of the old Cross-Gen comics but I don't remember that one. How many issues did it go?
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I have most of the old Cross-Gen comics but I don't remember that one. How many issues did it go?
It was the Mystic title, it was one of the first, lasted the whole run as far as I know. Its supposed to be part of the Crossgen relaunch by Marvel, but it will be more classic steam-punk with a llittle magic, from what I hear
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Of course. I have the entire run of Mystic but for some reason I didn't recognise it from the description. Maybe because my memory involved shapely women instead of gruff men in trench coats. Probably just because I am losing my mind. I thought the movie Paradox was corny and I don't particularly like Sorbo as an actor but somehow I enjoyed the movie in spite of both these things. I didn't realize that it was supposed to be based off the Mystic world.
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What caught my attention originally was that his costume looked as if it had come from the front cover or a DV novel but the wardrobe dude didn't realist that Harry doesn't wear a hat. Sorbo's acting is of the Pinnochio variety. I suppose that compared to the usual SciFi channel afternoon fare (Moby Dick with modern warheads, Journey to the Centre of the Earth, with an all girl Army Division (that was funny, script and acting talent). I didn't even bother with 20000 leagues under the sea. It seems like somebody at Scifi seems to want to brainwash us into thinking that the classic books we read as children didn't happen, like Olivia in the last episode of Fringe. I was going to say thank God they haven't got hold of H G Wells but I've seen some dodgy versions of War of the Worlds. I know these novels were contemporary when they were written but they are steampunk now and should stay that way.
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Of course. I have the entire run of Mystic but for some reason I didn't recognise it from the description. Maybe because my memory involved shapely women instead of gruff men in trench coats. Probably just because I am losing my mind. I thought the movie Paradox was corny and I don't particularly like Sorbo as an actor but somehow I enjoyed the movie in spite of both these things. I didn't realize that it was supposed to be based off the Mystic world.
Pretty much it starred a shapely socialite (thrust into magic politics) that went through a succession of men in trench coats, often in places that looked like 50's jazz bars with sprites serving the drinks. Dont think it was actually related to the Sorbo thing as far as I know, just similar appearing. The new mystic is apparently supposed to change her to an orphan getting by on steampunk streets that manages to learn some magic, which belongs to the aristocracy. Supposed to be more urbanly dark and grungy
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I don't trust Marvel to do a better job than CrossGen did. CrossGen IMHO had some of the best writing and the best art I've seen in some time. It was what got me back into comic books after getting sick of DC and Marvel's endless soap operas and retconning and ignoring them for over 20 years. Unfortunately CrossGen did not, apparently, have a good business model and went under. I started slowly backing out of comic books again and now I probably don't read more than 2 or 3 year. I do still have way too many long boxes collecting dust.
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I don't trust Marvel to do a better job than CrossGen did. CrossGen IMHO had some of the best writing and the best art I've seen in some time. It was what got me back into comic books after getting sick of DC and Marvel's endless soap operas and retconning and ignoring them for over 20 years. Unfortunately CrossGen did not, apparently, have a good business model and went under. I started slowly backing out of comic books again and now I probably don't read more than 2 or 3 year. I do still have way too many long boxes collecting dust.
It supposed to have writing by G. Willow Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Willow_Wilson), and Art by David Lopez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lopez_%28artist%29), but Im not familiar with either. Mostly Im curious if they are going to keep them as part of the same shared Sigilverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigilverse), or make them more stand-alone somehow, which would be disappointing.