Example 1: Joe Wizard decides to use Spirit magic to cause a blinding light to fill a zone giving all in it who fail their defense rolls, a negative aspect of Blinded By the Light.The book suggests charging some number of fate points >1 and <number of victims to invoke a zone wide aspect. I try to be a bit more generous and automatically compel (for the price of their free tag) everyone it makes sense based on the situation...including any PCs in the zone.
Now I get that Joe Wizard can tag this or hand it off to his assassin friend to invoke against one of the NPCs for a +2 on, let's say, a Stealth roll or an attack roll. Joe Wizard could also compel NPC #1 to attack his best friend and lifetime companion NPC #2 (who bonded over having the same first and middle name). Here's my question, what about NPC #2? Unless Joe Wizard wants to dump a fate point to compel all of the NPCs to miss or misfire, NPC #2 has no penalty on attacking, even though he SHOULD be blinded, at least partly so.
Example 2: Using a modified example in the book, Joe Wizard decides to cast the curse/maneuver Can't Think Straight on a performer before he gets on stage to foul him up.A compel has an important narrative affect...so compelling the actor should result in either a major screw up or a series of minor ones. Either way the others probably won't need to throw additional fate points at it.
Now I'm ASSUMING he can spend a fate point to compel said performer to foul up on the stage. Now here is my confusion, can other PCs, who's characters are aware of this curse, spend Fate Points to compel this curse even though they aren't there? Assuming the curse lasts until sunrise, do the PCs have to continuously spend FP (say at one per scene) to maintain the lack of concentration? Shouldn't the fact that Joe Wizard spend several FP to invoke aspects JUST to get the curse to be cast (filling the power deficit) count towards something?
In both cases, do I the DM have to compel my NPCs and likewise award my NPCs Fate Points when, let's face it, they're probably going to die in battle?I would. That said, I'll throw minor NPCs' fate points into a common pot. Only major NPCs get tracked separately. It means fate from compels against one group of mooks may get used by another...but fate is a metagame resource.
I like Aspects, I do, but they seem not to matter unless Fate Points are being spent on them.Compels and Invokes for Effect are how you get the most mileage from a single fate point. Take your Blinding Light from above, I'd probably compel that to prevent ranged attacks (they can't see well enough) until they remove the aspect from themselves. Depending on rolls, that could last anywhere from one exchange to the entire combat.
Example 1: Joe Wizard decides to use Spirit magic to cause a blinding light to fill a zone giving all in it who fail their defense rolls, a negative aspect of Blinded By the Light.
Now I get that Joe Wizard can tag this or hand it off to his assassin friend to invoke against one of the NPCs for a +2 on, let's say, a Stealth roll or an attack roll. Joe Wizard could also compel NPC #1 to attack his best friend and lifetime companion NPC #2 (who bonded over having the same first and middle name).
Keep in mind that you can't use your free Tag to compel, only to invoke. If it's sticky, anyone interested can start throwing around fate points for compels & invokes, but the free Tag may only be Invoked.
A tag is a special move that you may be able to
do when you’re invoking aspects other than your
own. Whenever you make a roll to gain access
to or create an aspect, as per the list on page 105,
you may invoke it one time, and one time only, for
free—as in, you don’t spend from your pool of
fate points to take advantage of the aspect.
Aspects
What Are Aspects?
Using Aspects
Invoking Aspects
Compelling Aspects
Using Others Aspects
Invoking Others Aspects
Compelling Others Aspects
...
You can also invoke an aspect for effect, using
it to declare a fact or circumstance that would
be of benefit to your character. This costs a
fate point like any other invocation does. For
example, you could invoke your character’s
Warden Connections aspect to declare that
there’s a Warden actually in town.
Invocations on other aspects can also be done
for effect, allowing you to use someone else’s
aspect or a scene aspect to make a declaration.
All the guidelines for invoking for effect (page 99)
apply here.
So the RAW and Fred are different. There's nothing wrong with that, but realize that there IS a difference. Even if that's what Fred Meant, it's still not what The Rules Say. If an Errata sheet or new version comes out that changes this, so be it... but DFRPG 1.0 has a specific meaning.Not really; rather there's quite a log of wiggle room built into the system by the use of ambiguous definitions. Consider, for example, the paragraph right after the one you quoted on Invoking for Effect:
Different groups will have different tastes regarding the potential scope of invoking for effect, and your group should talk this over to see where each player stands. GMs are encouraged to be fairly liberal in this regard, provided that the player’s desired effect is consistent with the aspect and the overall sensibilities of the game.Add that to the previous paragraph, and you end up with the following result: Invoking for Effect can result in ... just about anything, so long as the group agrees its reasonable. Fred's comments on the matter basically resolved to this, if I recall more-or-less correctly:
I'm still a little fuzzy on the difference between the GM agreeing that the effect is compel worthy, and the GM being convinced by a player that a character should be compelled by a given aspect, with no tag spent."With no tag spent"? I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you're talking about Fate changing hands, then keep in mind that whether or not the player is using a tag to get a free Invoke, it's the GM that's actually running the Compel. This means that the Compel-ee will be getting Fate for the Compel, even if the Invoke that triggered it was a free tag. This is different that if a player directly Compels an NPC -- for example, if a player inflicts a consequence on an NPC, he can later tag that consequence, and no Fate is spent or earned.
I'm still a little fuzzy on the difference between the GM agreeing that the effect is compel worthy, and the GM being convinced by a player that a character should be compelled by a given aspect, with no tag spent.That's decided by who wins the social contest between player and GM! ;)
That's decided by who wins the social contest between player and GM! ;)
This is funny and all, but it's also the most accurate explanation I've seen so far. If the player can convince the GM to Compel the NPC without using your tag, then kudos to you. You get your Compel and keep your tag. Good job.
Thing is, as the GM I don't *care* if the player spends the tag. It's not like spending that tag will make things more fun for the group, so I can't figure out how or why to factor that in to my decision to initiate the compel.