ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: ways and means on August 21, 2011, 01:30:34 PM

Title: Body Swap Spell
Post by: ways and means on August 21, 2011, 01:30:34 PM
I know in canon a body swap spell is possible with kemmlerite magic but how would you stat the spell in game?
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: ARedthorn on August 21, 2011, 02:50:07 PM
With Evocation? Probably only possible as a death-curse (which fits canon, really)... the amount of power necessary to force a take-out (all consequences + stress filled) is just too much for anything less... and that's the way I'd do it. And even then- it's still sponsored magic's Thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation that allows it. Straight evocation, prolly not.

If a player wanted to do it as a raw thaumaturgy spell... stat it out like a weapons-grade entropy curse... worst case scenario- you might have to take spell duration into effect on top of that (I assume you'd want it to last a lifetime), and then simply acknowledge that as a mind-magic spell, the takeout is displacing their mind/spirit/etc, instead of outright killing them.

Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: ways and means on August 21, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
I am not sure about stating it as a death curse considering the fact that the body of the user doesn't die. Death Curses in the fiction rely on drawing the life energy out of a body so a death curse that leaves the body intact isn't a death curse. 
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: ARedthorn on August 21, 2011, 05:09:20 PM
the one canon example we have, she tried pretty hard to get herself killed during the spell (though that could have been about the convenience of making sure the body she left didn't get uppity).

My comment that it might have to be run as a death curse is that if someone were to try it as evocation (without any sponsored magic to back it up), there'd be no other way to gather enough shifts of power to pull it off, and I think that's appropriate.
You're talking about hot-swapping someone's mind and soul, without any copy-errors here. Not something you do easily on the fast and loose, period. I think you should have to force a take-out in order to pull it off.

Sure, sure, that's a lot easier if you've already beaten your opponent down (mentally, one would assume, since you're going from that to major mental mojo, and you'd want those consequences to tag), but then it's not being accomplished as a single exchange, either, strictly speaking. It's being accomplished as the culmination of a combat, and I could be convinced to simply allow it as the take-out in a mental combat (probably involving some sort of FP bribery on the part of the person doing it, in order to get the victim to accept that take-out).
Meaning that it could be done without a death curse, but only with a solid foundation of consequences and more than a couple FP.

Which is why I'd recommend doing it with thaumaturgy.
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 21, 2011, 07:04:54 PM
Quote from: ARedthorn on August 21, 2011, 05:09:20 PM
the one canon example we have, she tried pretty hard to get herself killed during the spell (though that could have been about the convenience of making sure the body she left didn't get uppity).

(click to show/hide)

Stat it as Kemmlerian Necromancy (YS291).  That way, unless they actually are a Kemmlerite or have access to his teachings, they have to do it as thaumaturgy which it absolutely is.  Beyond that, it's up to the player and GM to determine the amount of complexity.

Bear in mind though that the Wardens will be coming to ask some pointed questions about violating the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and/or 5th laws.  Not to mention their fervor relating to all things Kemmler.  It's extremely likely that it most certainly will be a death curse, even if you pull it off.
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: Masurao on August 22, 2011, 12:59:01 AM
I think that the example we have seen in the novels, namely Corpsetaker, might be something like Injun's Joe's shapeshifting abilities. I can't remember exactly if it was WoJ (believe so), but they said that Injun had used Thaumaturgical rituals to change his shape so often, that it practically became 'natural' to him, which is why he now can do it at will.

I assume that if it can be done with shapeshifting, then why not with body-swapping? It stands to reason that, while perhaps made possible by Kemmlerian necromancy, Corpsetaker was unique amongst the Disciples in this regard and so she might be the only one that had rely so often on such a ritual, that it became an at will ability. Furthermore, Thaumaturgical rituals can be fueled with many sources of power, so even if she, in the past, wound up with a body less capable of magic, she could still manage to swap another, given enough time and resources.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it a bit...
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: Onkel Thorsen on August 22, 2011, 11:56:41 AM
As an Evocation I'd say you had to put out at least enough Spirit power to overcome the victim's mental stress track +8 shifts.
Then the victim would have a chance to resist with a mental defense of some kind. (and thus it would be recommended to plan extra power for that purpose)
Your attack roll to target the spell should be directed towards getting the victim to look you in the eye - or whatever mechanism you use to body-hop, but it wouldn't otherwise affect the effect of the spell.

All your consequences would be left with your previous body, and the possession would effectively be an extreme consequence to the victim's body.

Is that completely crazy?
It's basically a straight Spirit-based attack to put a very hardcore maneuver on the target.
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 22, 2011, 04:20:37 PM
Personally, I wouldn't allow it to be done as evo at all by a PC unless they had something akin to Kemmlerian Necromancy to make it possible.
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: ARedthorn on August 22, 2011, 06:52:58 PM
even with, for example, a death curse or MAJOR spirit ley line to work with?

Edit: Just remembered- ley lines and places of power work like Sponsored Magic, so... nevermind on that.
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 22, 2011, 07:24:24 PM
Quote from: ARedthorn on August 22, 2011, 06:52:58 PM
even with, for example, a death curse or MAJOR spirit ley line to work with?

Edit: Just remembered- ley lines and places of power work like Sponsored Magic, so... nevermind on that.

Wouldn't be a death curse if they lived.  Using up all their stress and consequences is the game method for determining strength of the curse, it's still powered by their life force and wouldn't leave them anything left to transfer to another body.

Besides, even if it were possible, remember that they're not going to lose mental consequences as a result of setting up house in a new body since the whole point of it is that they took their mind with them.  Unless they already had their consequence slots full of physical/social things, they're going to enter the body Taken Out and and at the mercy of whoever they were fighting to choose what Taken Out means for them.
Title: Re: Body Swap Spell
Post by: sinker on August 23, 2011, 03:08:35 AM
I figure it's thaumaturgy (or thaumaturgy at evocation's speed and methods) and at the very least it's taking an extreme consequence to inflict an extreme consequence, but it could be taking an extreme consequence to take someone out too.

Remember that the body is not what matters with consequences other than physical injuries (and keep in mind that not all physical consequences are physical injuries, one can be "Dead tired" or similar). It's the character that matters. You're still the same character with most if not all of the same skills, powers, aspects, and consequences, so death curses aren't really appropriate as those consequences would likely stick with you.