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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Drulinda on August 21, 2011, 04:31:48 AM

Title: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Drulinda on August 21, 2011, 04:31:48 AM: Can anyone clarify if a supernatural needs to be reinvited in whenever they re-enter a threshold or do they get free access after one time? cant remember anything about it from the first RPGs section on thresholds.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 21, 2011, 05:37:06 AM: Quote from: Drulinda on August 21, 2011, 04:31:48 AM
Can anyone clarify if a supernatural needs to be reinvited in whenever they re-enter a threshold or do they get free access after one time? cant remember anything about it from the first RPGs section on thresholds.

I go with: It lasts until it would be more fun if it ran out or until the end of the session. Unless it's crystal clear that it's a standing invitation.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Lanir on August 21, 2011, 07:01:55 AM: In a recent novel a character who had been invited in left a threshold and could not re-enter. I think they'd been inside for a day at that point but not sure. Don't have it with me. If someone else wants to add details, spoiler tags are probably in order.

From a practical game point of view, Buzzard's idea is probably the best way to go.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: noclue on August 21, 2011, 07:15:12 AM: Your invite should last until you decide you change your mind.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Papa Gruff on August 21, 2011, 12:09:04 PM: I'd go with: it lasts as long as it's intended to last.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Taran on August 21, 2011, 02:34:47 PM: Quote from: Papa Gruff on August 21, 2011, 12:09:04 PM
I'd go with: it lasts as long as it's intended to last.

I like this the best. Unless you're giving a standing invitation (as The Mighty Buzzard said). When I welcome people over to my house, I invite them in every time. There are certain people, like really good friends and extended family, who can walk in without the formality of being invited in. I think you can also withdraw invitations as well.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Drulinda on August 21, 2011, 03:02:34 PM: Thanks!
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Masurao on August 22, 2011, 01:29:58 AM: Quote from: Taran on August 21, 2011, 02:34:47 PM
I like this the best. Unless you're giving a standing invitation (as The Mighty Buzzard said). When I welcome people over to my house, I invite them in every time. There are certain people, like really good friends and extended family, who can walk in without the formality of being invited in. I think you can also withdraw invitations as well.

I'd go with this, adding the fact that Harry doesn't have to invite Thomas or Molly in every time. I know he has a shitty Threshold, but these people are closest to him and that is what counts. What just hit me, though, is the fact that they both have keys and means to undo the wards, so I guess if you give out your key to someone or something, with intention, then they should be able to enter until you retract the invitation.

I would compare it to inviting in someone on business, like the pizza boy or the plumber ('My, what a large tool you have...') Anyhoo... they do their job and leave. They won't just come back in without an invitation. Unless they're creepy serial killers, but that's besides the point. I feel intent counts.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Onkel Thorsen on August 22, 2011, 11:58:11 AM: Good calls, those.

They made me wonder, however, if one can actively withdraw an invitation once it's given?
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 22, 2011, 04:17:47 PM: Quote from: Onkel Thorsen on August 22, 2011, 11:58:11 AM
Good calls, those.

They made me wonder, however, if one can actively withdraw an invitation once it's given?

Offhand, I'd say yes and no. Yes if you do it before they cross the threshold. No if they've already crossed the threshold.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: wyvern on August 22, 2011, 04:55:25 PM: I'd actually go for yes and maybe. Because, well, someone with true faith should darned well be able to drive off or weaken things with "You are no longer welcome here." A wizard with a good conviction might be able to do similar - though I'd consider charging them a fate point for it. Ordinary people? Probably not so much.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Taran on August 22, 2011, 05:24:20 PM: Quote from: wyvern on August 22, 2011, 04:55:25 PM
I'd actually go for yes and maybe. Because, well, someone with true faith should darned well be able to drive off or weaken things with "You are no longer welcome here." A wizard with a good conviction might be able to do similar - though I'd consider charging them a fate point for it. Ordinary people? Probably not so much.

I like this. I wonder if the "rules of hospitality" apply here. If you invite someone in to your house, then there are certain obligations by both host and guest. I could see that if a guest does something to warrant retracting an invitation, it might be easier to do so. On the other hand, I don't think you can use a threshold as a trap. "hey, come on in!" then suddenly, "I revoke my invitation! And now you are powerless against me! Moi-ha-ha!" But in either case, I like using conviction to retract an invitation - almost like using the threshold in the same way you would use a holy symbol against a vampire.

The only issue I have with allowing you to retract an invite after the creature/person has crossed the threshold is it takes away the scariness of "accidently" inviting something BAD into your house....so maybe really limiting it to certain situations like the ones wyvern pointed out.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: noclue on August 22, 2011, 06:12:36 PM: I'd say once you are across the threshold you don't need an invite to stay, only to return. Driving off things that are already inside your house with a "Get thee hence!" is totally doable. It's called a banishment.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: The Mighty Buzzard on August 22, 2011, 07:12:28 PM: Quote from: Taran on August 22, 2011, 05:24:20 PM
I like this. I wonder if the "rules of hospitality" apply here.
I thought about that too but it doesn't really jive with canonical examples. If you could rescind an invitation because of a violation of the laws of hospitality, I don't think we'd see the same level of paranoia about inviting something using the form of a friend in. Don't mean it's not possible, just that I don't consider it probable.

Quote from: Taran on August 22, 2011, 05:24:20 PM
The only issue I have with allowing you to retract an invite after the creature/person has crossed the threshold is it takes away the scariness of "accidently" inviting something BAD into your house....so maybe really limiting it to certain situations like the ones wyvern pointed out.

Nah, I prefer to keep my holy types and wizards on their toes too. They already get enough breaks against the supernatural.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Papa Gruff on August 22, 2011, 09:09:09 PM: At first I thought that a invitation should be withdrawn anytime, but only by the person who invited someone in. Problem is it seems a little bit illogical when you think about it for a moment.

Hence:
Once the invited bad boy is over the threshold that's it. No backsies on invitations. At least to me that is what the canon has to say on this. Otherwise there would have been some situations where a certain wizard would have chucked away a perfectly good advantage
(click to show/hide)
(like in the 'AAAA' short story for example)
.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Taran on August 22, 2011, 10:59:48 PM: Yeah, the more I think of it the more I agree that once you're over the threshold with an invite, you're good to go. Once you leave, you can have that invite revoked.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: sqlcowboy on September 02, 2011, 01:03:56 PM: According to the books, you can have a standing invitation. Harry has entered Murphy's house with it's powerful threshold without issues to 'water her plants,' for instance.

I'd play it with the "fun rule" -- if it's more fun for a threshold to be refreshed and require a new invitation, do that. Otherwise allow a standing invitation if it's put that way. The whole "using a threshold as a trap" thing is a moot point, since the threshold itself is what makes the power get left behind. Once you're inside, you're inside, and you can always leave -- the threshold doesn't make you leave your power inside if you try to go out -- it's one way.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: mstorer3772 on September 02, 2011, 06:15:34 PM: GS Spoiler
(click to show/hide)
When Harry-the-Ghost left Murphy's place, he needed an invitation to come back in.

I suspect it has to do with the nature of the invitation. "Come and go as you please" might be carte-blanc, while "come it" would be a 1-shot.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Taran on September 02, 2011, 06:33:45 PM: Quote from: Papa Gruff on August 21, 2011, 12:09:04 PM
I'd go with: it lasts as long as it's intended to last.

Just going to re-iterate this one.
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on September 02, 2011, 10:51:11 PM: Quote from: sqlcowboy on September 02, 2011, 01:03:56 PM
According to the books, you can have a standing invitation. Harry has entered Murphy's house with it's powerful threshold without issues to 'water her plants,' for instance.

Harry had to make keys so that Murphy and select others could cross his wards. If memory serves he gave a Ward Key to her, Thomas, Molly, and Anastasia (that last Key a critical part of Turn Coat). I remember him saying that they were a pain to make.

Now that I'm thinking about his Wards, how the heck does his house cleaning staff get into clean? The first time I don't think that he knew they were coming. They can't be crossing in from the Nevernever - unless there's a different entrance that doesn't go to the garden.

Richard
Title: Re: How long is a threshold invitation good for?
Post by: Silverblaze on September 03, 2011, 05:49:18 AM: Can someone using "Bless this House" keep an evil entity IN? If that is the intent to protect others by forcing said creature to battle you?