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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: ARedthorn on August 13, 2011, 12:45:00 AM

Title: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: ARedthorn on August 13, 2011, 12:45:00 AM
Ok- so my new gaming group (me as player) has a number of magic users, all focused practitioners, pretty much... I'm an evocator (no ritual/thaum), and we have a couple ritualists (a crafter who self-limited himself to potions and a conjuror)... which means.... no wards.

But after Ghost Story,
(click to show/hide)
, I wondered if there might be some way my character could hodge-podge some stuff together along those lines.

He has a +4 lore, +2 resources (could be better, but it's hella better than harry's sheet usually has), and works for Monoc Securities... I think that gives me the access and excuse enough to pull off some stuff along those lines... but my question is... what, and how would our GM handle it?

So far, all I've got is that I, as a player, would have to come up with each individual proofing (and some supernatural stuffs won't have any), and make a Lore roll -hindered by resources- to see if I can pull it off (lore to see if I know about that particular thing, resources to see if I can afford to make it happen)... and treat it as a declaration on the space.

I could also use some suggestions for things that might work to make a home that's... not necessarily proof against the supernatural, but remarkably hostile to them.
So far, I've got:
GS:
(click to show/hide)
Iron furniture/door/doorknobs etc for fae.
Possibly renting from a rectory to ward off vamps.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Haru on August 13, 2011, 01:00:24 AM
The beautiful thing about how the Dresden world is built is, that most things that can be done by magic can be done in a mundane fashion. They might be costly, they might be limited in the way they work, but they work.

I would possibly treat it as a "mundane ritual" using craftsmanship. You can set up aspects as usual, but some aspects you just will need (you cant paint a room with ghost dust by imagining ghost dust). If you get your ghost dust aspects by contacts, resources or burglary is irrelevant, as long as you get it. Lore could be used to make a "special mixture" aspect. Shifts of the ritual would be distributed between ward strength and duration, exactly like a magical ward. Craftsmanship as the skill, because someone who is not that skilled might leave spots with very thin paint, leave an edge without paint, etc.. You could even create the aspects and then hire a painter and use his craftsmanship skill, which would absolutely not work with magic.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: UmbraLux on August 13, 2011, 01:02:22 AM
It's probably not something an evoker can accomplish, but your ritualists may be able to do something...they'll simply need to tailor it to their brand of thaumaturgy. 
(click to show/hide)

But the conjurer could create conjured traps and the alchemist / enchanter could create a variety of useful items.  Possibly even the one you mentioned...though I suspect that may be expensive for anyone without the related specialty in thaumaturgy.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: sinker on August 13, 2011, 01:07:11 AM
To be honest that particular example seems like a ritualist using ritual to do things within his baliwick, so I don't get the comparison.

I could see someone with the right connections using resources or contacts to ghost proof (or fey proof, etc) a room, however I would be inclined to have them plan that out in advance and/or give me a good reason for it. So I wouldn't allow someone to say "My character that had no association with the Fomor has Fomor-proofed his house" (I know, they have similar weaknesses), but an ectomancer ghost-proofing his place, or a Wizard warding his house against RCVs makes sense.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: ARedthorn on August 13, 2011, 01:28:47 AM
True enough- it is precisely within his baliwick- and most likely represents that...
I was under the impression though that ghost dust was less about mystical crafting and more about contents- that it wasn't an imbued substance, but a material that was simply anathema to the ghosts... like iron is to fae, or holy objects to... well, a lot.
Even if it is more mystically imbued, no reason someone with a ghost problem couldn't pay an ectomancer to paint his house.

More or less, I'm talking about the kind of stuff a normal mortal could conceivably do to make his residence as hostile as possible to the supernatural.
After all, working for Monoc, I'd have the access, and I'd certainly have earned some supernatural enemies (superpowered blackwater, anyone?).
Thresholds go a long way for most, but my character's definitely a bachelor, and moved around a lot for Monoc.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Roxy Rocket on August 13, 2011, 02:30:31 AM
I think the most mortal of all mortal solutions is the best: Buy it. Ghost dust, someone to build wards on your threshold and so on work fine. But let's explore some options here.

Be Sneaky
Marcone has a magic circle handy and the 'Magical equivalent of a nine-volt battery' to power it and protect himself. If I needed a place to live, I might find a good family who would rent me their basement apartment, then do a few things to insinuate myself like help the kids with their math homewalk or for Harry: shovel the walk.

Think Like A Mortal
Why build magical landmines when the real thing will do the job? Wire them to a box in the house. If the box is giving the landmines a signal, they're dormant. If it stops, they arm. You turn the box off when you get in. Faeries and Fomor would not enjoy chicken wire, let alone razor wire. If they burst through your plaster wall and got themselves tangled in a barbed steel net you'd have made your point.

Practical Choices
Why build walls that just announce 'I'm Thiiiiiiis Tasty?' Be invisible. Build a camouflage that leaves no trace of your ultimate goal, a mundane, boring camouflage. Things can't drag you screaming into the night if they can't find you or identify you.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Todjaeger on August 13, 2011, 07:04:55 AM
If you want a Ward around your home or home base and no one in the group has Ritual (Wards), Thaumaturgy, or Sponsored Magic, then you need to have someone else create the Ward, and use keyed tokens which would allow the people keyed to the tokens to bypass the Ward.  Making it somewhat more complicated is that a Ward would still need to be periodically renewed as they do fade with time.

Now, the Contacts, Presence and Resources skills could all play a role in getting someone else to cast a Ward for you.  Without finding someone to cast the Ward, convincing them to actually do it, and paying them (either in cash, kind, or  a favor) to cast the Ward, then the Evocator wouldn't have a Ward. 

There are a number of non-Warding countermeasures which you can take, probably the easiest and most practical would be have pre-arranged, inlaid metal circles in the different rooms, so that they can be activated if/when ever needed.

-Cheers
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: ARedthorn on August 13, 2011, 09:10:34 AM
Aye- I'm mostly looking for ward-substitutes... Not actual wards. I'll have to check with the gm to see if the paranet is around yet in our timeframe, maybe I could look into hiring them if I settle in anywhere long-term enough to be worth it... But the character's mood is a bit on the mercenary side to be so rooted: Hence the want for physical fortifications that... Discourage supernatural invasion.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Masurao on August 13, 2011, 09:23:57 AM
On a bit of a side-note: I know Ghost Dust is nasty for ghosts, but in the description it does say:
Quote
Notes: It satisfies the Catch on a ghost’s Physical
Immunity; however, in order to work in the
mortal realm, the ghost must acknowledge
the wielder’s presence first.

So, good luck painting your walls with that... Oh, and also, the depleted uranium part, but that's a bit besides the point, because it only works in certain circumstances. If the ghost simply wants to manifest within your walls, it could, because, if I am correct, Ghost Dust doesn't exist on both the mortal realm and the Nevernever simultaneously. Harry had to take it with him into the ghost's demesne for it to work there (and it was even more real and heavy for him and more detrimental to the ghost.

Before you blast me for being wrong though, I haven't read the spoilers or Ghost Story yet! So if I am wrong, tell me so and allow to wait for my copy of Ghost Story... *sobs*
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: ARedthorn on August 13, 2011, 09:35:01 AM
I refuse to spoil anything... But even if you are right, I don't so much care about stopping ghosts that haven't acknowledged me from entering my home... If they haven't acknowledged me, they clearly can't mean me any harm.

Enjoy GS when you get it. It's not much of a spoiler, but ghost dust does come up (I know, shocker, given the book's title, right?) Ana there are non-radioactive versions apparently that may or may not need acknowledgement (that's unclear from the scene in question).
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 13, 2011, 07:35:09 PM
There was a thread a while ago about whether or not a house built by a man for his True Love would hurt Raiths. Some people thought that it touching it would hurt them.

Not exactly a practical defensive measure, but it could be interesting and amusing.

Also, magical circles are easy to make. You could put one under every carpet.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: computerking on August 14, 2011, 02:18:43 AM
Quote from: Sanctaphrax on August 13, 2011, 07:35:09 PM
Also, magical circles are easy to make. You could put one under every carpet.

Wouldn't the carpet break the metaphysical circle? I think I remember Harry warning someone about reaching into/towards a circle or something, because breaking the plane of the circle disrupts its power.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Haru on August 14, 2011, 02:21:04 AM
Quote from: computerking on August 14, 2011, 02:18:43 AM
Wouldn't the carpet break the metaphysical circle? I think I remember Harry warning someone about reaching into/towards a circle or something, because breaking the plane of the circle disrupts its power.

I think so, too. However, you could keep them under there and if need be, you put the carpet aside, stand in the circle and touch it with your blood to will it to life. Certainly sturdier than a chalk circle and probably quicker, too.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Taran on August 14, 2011, 03:05:51 AM
I'd look into folk-lore for ideas.  Didn't people hang garlic over their doors to ward off vampires/spirits?  What about lines of salt?  Things like that should have some kind of value in the game.  Maybe just an aspect to tag when things try to get over your threshold.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: ARedthorn on August 14, 2011, 04:35:06 AM
for circles, I simply thought of having a floor pattern where the circles blend in... marble, say, with various rings of marble inset (of various sizes, most broken by others, but quite a few scattered around, unbroken)... maybe expensive, but stealth, and always one available in arm's reach.

I'm also fairly familiar with various folklore type stuffs, but implementing such in a way that's not too obvious is the goal, and where the hard comes in. I love the steel chicken wire in the drywall... that's perfectly in line with what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: UmbraLux on August 14, 2011, 01:23:15 PM
My opinion:  Circles, at heart, are just a block.  As a block, they can be broken by two things:  what they're made of and what they're blocking.  They do have one attribute a normal block doesn't - a circle can support a ward.  But by itself, it's just a block. 
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Haru on August 14, 2011, 01:52:14 PM
Quote from: ARedthorn on August 14, 2011, 04:35:06 AM
for circles, I simply thought of having a floor pattern where the circles blend in... marble, say, with various rings of marble inset (of various sizes, most broken by others, but quite a few scattered around, unbroken)... maybe expensive, but stealth, and always one available in arm's reach.

Also a great idea for a declaration in any official place. A floor pattern in the mall might might just have a giant circle in it, that can help save the day.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Todjaeger on August 14, 2011, 03:59:16 PM
Quote from: UmbraLux on August 14, 2011, 01:23:15 PM
My opinion:  Circles, at heart, are just a block.  As a block, they can be broken by two things:  what they're made of and what they're blocking.  They do have one attribute a normal block doesn't - a circle can support a ward.  But by itself, it's just a block.

This is a bit different from how I treat circles.  Basically I treat a Circle as a Threshold, since from my understanding of the RAW and canon, a supernatural threat or caster can beat on a Circle as much as they like but still not be able to breach it in a way which would cause it to collapse like a Block can.  Additionally, a 'vanilla' mortal can make a circle, all that is needed is something to 'draw' the circle with, a drop of blood, free will and intent. If enough mojo is put into something, part of it can make it through a circle, but the circle will soak up and suppress at least some of what is being sent across.

Of course a circle can also be easily broken by a mortal with free will and intent who steps or sends something physical over the circle.  Woe be unto the mortal who feels safe from my wizard behind a circle...  I'll just shoot them with my Mossy loaded with Dragons Breath rounds.  Given that most circles are fairly small, one of a few things will occur.

Either I'll be able to tag a temp Aspect: "Inside a Circle" for a bonus on my attack roll and be able to take down the circle, shoot my opponent and using Dragons Breath rounds (Google them they're fun...) give my opponent the Aspect: "On Fire" while inflicting stress on them, or they'll be forced to step out of the circle to avoid getting shot, or I'll at least drop the circle.  Now if they'd decided to draw a very large circle, I might not be able to hit them, but I'll at least be able to drop the circle.

Now, one area where I'm not quite sure I'm happy with the RAW when compared to canon is the strengths of Thresholds, which impacts on how I handle Circles.

Harry, when he crossed a Threshold in an apartment building in White Night without an invitation, seemed to leave something like 99% of his power behind, leaving him with only enough magic to cause his pentacle to glow and provide light.  Given that Harry by now was somewhere in the top 30 - 40 wizards in raw strength, that sort of makes me think that even a fairly weak home Threshold should be starting at Legendary.  Admittedly, that is just my opinion and something I'll be testing and refining during a campaign.

-Cheers
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Sanctaphrax on August 14, 2011, 04:42:29 PM
Patterns in the floor making circles would be good, probably better than using carpets.

Maybe you could adjust the plumbing so that there are running-water barriers all over the place.

EDIT: Of course, that'd be a problem for you too.
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: ARedthorn on August 14, 2011, 05:46:19 PM
lotsa running water... only a limited problem. Remember- I'm an evocator, not a thaumaturgist, so the odds of me wanting to kill something that's not RIGHT in front of me... pretty non-existant. Having extra piping w/ running water in the walls (pumps on-property, I suppose) wouldn't hinder me too much- I'm not going to be shooting any power through the walls anyway. It will, however, help weaken any incoming entropy curses, and perhaps ground them out altogether with the threshold and running water combined.
Inside the home, if invaded by something with more magical juice than me, busting the walls open = spray of water = equal playing field. When it would hurt me more than help me, I just... don't do it. For that matter, a fire sprinkler system I can trigger from just about anywhere in the home?
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: Taran on August 14, 2011, 06:27:17 PM
In-floor heating is done with hot water running through pipes in the floor...
Title: Re: Evocator (no thaumaturgy) needs wards...
Post by: computerking on August 15, 2011, 05:36:43 AM
Quote from: ARedthorn on August 14, 2011, 05:46:19 PM
I'm not going to be shooting any power through the walls anyway.
Oh, boy. Now you've said it.
Have you not learned to avoid tempting fate in this way?