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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: BumblingBear on August 09, 2011, 02:32:49 AM
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Sooo.....
My DFRPG group is going to start a Bulldogs! campaign now. After reading some hype about the game, reading something Fred said about it, and now having seen the book... I am stoked.
What is even cooler for me is that the issues I was having with equipment and resources (read:loot) have been addressed in this FATE game.. and I like how it was done.
So my question is this:
Is anyone else who has read the Bulldogs! book going to adapt any of the rules to the DFRPG? I even think that some of the racial traits/powers would transfer over seamlessly.
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I had never heard about it before now, thanks for putting me on to it. I too have the same concerns about rewards (ahem.. I mean loot) in the DFRPG. I will have to look into it.
Thanks again.
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I had never heard about it before now, thanks for putting me on to it. I too have the same concerns about rewards (ahem.. I mean loot) in the DFRPG. I will have to look into it.
Thanks again.
No problem.
In Bulldogs, resources is not a normal stat, but a stat by itself that everyone has. Raising it requires actually working, getting a temporary aspect reflecting money from the job, and trying to raise resources with a roll or using that tag to buy something.
Loans can be taken out as well to buy gear, and gear can drastically make a character stronger.
Last but not least, fate points cannot be used on resource rolls and the first die roll is the one that counts. As such, characters can really amass a lot of wealth by smart play and savvy investments. On the other hand, it's really easy to lose every dime you have - especially if a player gives up a point or two of their resources stat to make up for the difference on a bad gear roll should they still want to buy the gear.
It's really interesting.
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I will definately have to take a look. I am a Star Wars Fan and a die hard Browncoat as well and so they had me ad the mention of Firefly and Han Solo - how awesome is the game going to be!
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I will definately have to take a look. I am a Star Wars Fan and a die hard Browncoat as well and so they had me ad the mention of Firefly and Han Solo - how awesome is the game going to be!
Than Bulldogs! is for you!
I am also a Star Wars nut, and love the Firefly 'verse. As it so happens, I'm BumblingBear's GM in said Bulldogs! game ^_^
It's shaping up to be awesomesauce!
-EF
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Can someone provide a link? Just curious enough to look into it and the game info on the publisher's site doesn't really tell much of anything. So far what has been said here about the resource system actually makes it sound really bad... Items are powerful? But getting them can be really random? Yeah... that sounds amusing for short games, nightmare-ish for longer running ones. But I may have just misunderstood.
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Can someone provide a link? Just curious enough to look into it and the game info on the publisher's site doesn't really tell much of anything. So far what has been said here about the resource system actually makes it sound really bad... Items are powerful? But getting them can be really random? Yeah... that sounds amusing for short games, nightmare-ish for longer running ones. But I may have just misunderstood.
Item creation is similar to character creation where various attributes cost points (like refresh for character).
The more powerful the item, the more it costs. It's more similar to a standard RPG that way.
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Can someone provide a link? Just curious enough to look into it and the game info on the publisher's site doesn't really tell much of anything. So far what has been said here about the resource system actually makes it sound really bad... Items are powerful? But getting them can be really random? Yeah... that sounds amusing for short games, nightmare-ish for longer running ones. But I may have just misunderstood.
The official page can be found here (http://galileogames.com/bulldogs-fate/).
Via RPGNow.com (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=93603).
As for the resources and items, I think there may be a misunderstanding.
Resources is a stand-alone trait. Unlike DFRPG where it's all rolled into your resources skill, or Diaspora where it's a stress track, Bulldogs! has it stand alone. Roll resources to buy something. If you succeed, congrats, you buy it! If you fail, you can reduce your resources to represent spending more than you have, it may have a negative aspect that's free taggable once per session (buying a knock-off), settling for a lower-cost item ("I have X amount what can I buy?"), or you just don't have enough cash on hand to buy it. Also, for really expensive things like starships, you can take out a loan.
Items are "powerful," yes...but not that much more than the weapons you'd find in DFRPG. A "regular" pistol is still damage 2, you just have the option of buying an auto-pistol that has the autofire upgrade, and maybe additional range (yes, range is a stat for weapons).
I'm not sure where you got that "getting items can be random." You go to the store, you buy stuff. Simple.
-EF
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I'm not sure where you got that "getting items can be random." You go to the store, you buy stuff. Simple.
Having to roll to see how easy it is to get what you get does add some chaos to the mix. I liked the option to take negative Aspects to make up for a low roll, indicating a knockoff, finicky or otherwise complicated version of the item.
I rolled to purchase an item that gave a +1 to my diplomat robot's Athletics skill (bought as "tactical evasion software") and had to give it several deficits in order to buy it. We also determined that it was sponsored by Zynga, came with ads, projected a holographic "+1" whenever it was used successfully, and scored the user.
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Having to roll to see how easy it is to get what you get does add some chaos to the mix. I liked the option to take negative Aspects to make up for a low roll, indicating a knockoff, finicky or otherwise complicated version of the item.
I rolled to purchase an item that gave a +1 to my diplomat robot's Athletics skill (bought as "tactical evasion software") and had to give it several deficits in order to buy it. We also determined that it was sponsored by Zynga, came with ads, projected a holographic "+1" whenever it was used successfully, and scored the user.
That's awesome.
I love that gear is so versatile and money actually matters in Bulldogs.
That said, as I was telling my gf, I am fully expecting to lose my gear on a fairly consistent basis just like characters do in any other space opera.
If characters could amass gear uninterrupted and intelligently in Bulldogs, with no mitigating factors, a character could conceivably gather enough personal items to do everything with one skill roll... which is shenanigans.
I plan on asking the gm in our next session to implement a rule that characters can only buy gear that fits their character concepts. For instance, it would make no sense for a warrior to buy medical gear to heal themselves. One would probably have to know at least something about a skill in order to even buy an item for that discipline.
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I plan on asking the gm in our next session to implement a rule that characters can only buy gear that fits their character concepts. For instance, it would make no sense for a warrior to buy medical gear to heal themselves. One would probably have to know at least something about a skill in order to even buy an item for that discipline.
I disagree. Business is built entirely on trying to sell shit to people who don't know any better. :) What I would do is make the Resources roll modified by the most appropriate "usage" skill. If you don't know cars, you can get taken for a ride (I'm sorry, I don't usually pun like that but it was too good to pass up) when shopping for one. Likewise, a gunman is probably going to know where to get deals on the good gear. The "probably" in that statement refers to the dice. :)
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Having to roll to see how easy it is to get what you get does add some chaos to the mix. I liked the option to take negative Aspects to make up for a low roll, indicating a knockoff, finicky or otherwise complicated version of the item.
I rolled to purchase an item that gave a +1 to my diplomat robot's Athletics skill (bought as "tactical evasion software") and had to give it several deficits in order to buy it. We also determined that it was sponsored by Zynga, came with ads, projected a holographic "+1" whenever it was used successfully, and scored the user.
That....is...EPIC!!!! I'd love to be in your party with stuff like that going on!
That's awesome.
I love that gear is so versatile and money actually matters in Bulldogs.
That said, as I was telling my gf, I am fully expecting to lose my gear on a fairly consistent basis just like characters do in any other space opera.
If characters could amass gear uninterrupted and intelligently in Bulldogs, with no mitigating factors, a character could conceivably gather enough personal items to do everything with one skill roll... which is shenanigans.
I plan on asking the gm in our next session to implement a rule that characters can only buy gear that fits their character concepts. For instance, it would make no sense for a warrior to buy medical gear to heal themselves. One would probably have to know at least something about a skill in order to even buy an item for that discipline.
Instead of asking, I'll just answer you :p
The rules let you start with one item per "usage skill" as well as an armour/shield item. So if you don't have the medicine skill, you can't start with a med-kit. However, if you want to buy a med-kit after being beat up a few times, who am I to say no? Survival of the fittest, after all. If you're not smart enough to get some medical gear, it's not my fault when you take that extreme consequence and just to stay alive.
Than again, you already know that I only talk a mean game. I haven't killed any of you. But, I didn't step in to stop the self-inflicted TPK. ^_^
-EF
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Ultimately, gear is just a form of plot armor or agency, its worth governed by Reliability, sometimes broken into Frequency and Strength. Some games will break that up into situational plot armor or agency (like Bulldogs) while others (DFRPG) abstract it out.
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Okay, this post has peaked my interest and I ordered Bulldogs! immediately. You people better not had let me down! :D
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Okay, this post has peaked my interest and I ordered Bulldogs! immediately. You people better not had let me down! :D
It's seriously pretty cool.
I like that it's such a small book too. The rules and such are condensed down a bit from other rpg books I've read.
But that said, I think that an understanding of fate like from the DFRPG is good to start out with.
But seriously - just the inclusion of a whole race of psychopathic, chain smoking killer teddy bears makes this game /win.
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But seriously - just the inclusion of a whole race of psychopathic, chain smoking killer teddy bears makes this game /win.
Are you serious? That sounds awesome! :o
I will definitely order the RPG now :)
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Are you serious? That sounds awesome! :o
I will definitely order the RPG now :)
"An Urseminite is small, about three or
four feet tall, and looks remarkably like a living teddy
bear. They’re short and pudgy, covered in soft fur that
ranges from pink to brown, and everything about their
physical appearance is completely non-threatening.
They have no claws and their teeth aren’t pointed.......
Urseminites revel in vice. They smoke huge, disgusting
cigars that they roll themselves; they drink to excess;
they hit on everything that moves; they pick fights;
they lie, cheat, steal, and kill—all for amusement
and personal gain. Urseminites are supremely selfish
creatures; there’s a theory that something within the
Urseminite brain prevents them from empathizing
with other creatures, prevents them from realizing that
other creatures aren’t mere playthings for their own
grotesque amusement."
Please buy this game. You will not regret it. :)
*Note that the quoted text is from "Bulldogs!" and is owned by Fred Hicks, Brennan Taylor, Brian Engard, etc etc. I am not stealing anyone's stuff, just trying to promote it. :)
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Are you serious? That sounds awesome! :o
I will definitely order the RPG now :)
Deadly serious.
Here is the spoiler page that Brennan put up for us to drool over before the game came out:
(http://galileogames.com/images/Urseminites.jpg)
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Oh yes, i had a great laugh on those when i first read my pdf...
They are basically Evil Antisocial Ewoks... it's just great.
And the Game really looks quite good.
We'll see if i ever get to actually play it, but with 10$ for the PDF it's one that's even worth it's price if you only use it for inspiration.
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They are awesome. And the picture is great. ;D
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The Urseminites sound an awful lot like the Ob'enn from Schlock Mercenary.
I wonder which came first.
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When did the Ob'enn show up again? Urseminites have existed since the previous version of Bulldogs! which was d20 based, IIRC. I've found art of them dating back to 2003.
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Thanks for the comments, it sounds great! I will definitely have to get it.
Two questions though: Would the changes to the Resources foul up Dresden Files if we houseruled it into our game? I will be playing soon with a group who are used to playing D&D with loot, could we impliment something into our game similar to those rules and still have it be Dresden Files?
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Thanks for the comments, it sounds great! I will definitely have to get it.
Two questions though: Would the changes to the Resources foul up Dresden Files if we houseruled it into our game? I will be playing soon with a group who are used to playing D&D with loot, could we impliment something into our game similar to those rules and still have it be Dresden Files?
It depends on how you incorporate it.
I think it could be a fun idea. Instead of listing a bunch of items and the resources necessary to buy them, you could just come up with a number/difficulty for a weapon/item the player wants to buy.
I think it could work just fine.
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To clarify:
Weapons in Bulldogs have a lot higher weapon ratings than in DFRPG because of how combat works.
In DFRPG, damage is calculated by the attack shifts over the defense plus the weapon rating.
In bulldogs, it's the attack shifts over the defense /OR/ the weapon rating. Whichever is higher.
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In bulldogs, it's the attack shifts over the defense /OR/ the weapon rating. Whichever is higher.
Not quite.
In DFRPG Extra shifts are those above the defense roll, and you add those onto the Weapon rating.
In Bulldogs, Extra shifts only count once you exceed your weapon rating.
An attack with Accuracy:8, Weapon:3 against a defense of 5 does not produce extra shifts.
An Attack with Accuracy:8, Weapon:1 against a defense of 5 produces 2 extra shifts.
An Attack with Accuracy:8, Weapon:0 against a defense of 5 produces 3 extra shifts.
The stress inflicted is the same in all three cases.
But you are right, weapon ratings tend to be higher in Bulldogs, because of how combat works :-)
But now i'm starting to debate Bulldogs rules in the DFRPG... probably not very useful *g*
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When did the Ob'enn show up again? Urseminites have existed since the previous version of Bulldogs! which was d20 based, IIRC. I've found art of them dating back to 2003.
I've found a reference in 2001.
Source: http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-05-03
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Not quite.
In DFRPG Extra shifts are those above the defense roll, and you add those onto the Weapon rating.
In Bulldogs, Extra shifts only count once you exceed your weapon rating.
An attack with Accuracy:8, Weapon:3 against a defense of 5 does not produce extra shifts.
An Attack with Accuracy:8, Weapon:1 against a defense of 5 produces 2 extra shifts.
An Attack with Accuracy:8, Weapon:0 against a defense of 5 produces 3 extra shifts.
The stress inflicted is the same in all three cases.
But you are right, weapon ratings tend to be higher in Bulldogs, because of how combat works :-)
But now i'm starting to debate Bulldogs rules in the DFRPG... probably not very useful *g*
That's...exactly what he said. It's the higher of attack shifts or weapon rating, whichever is higher...
Or did I miss something?
-EF
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That's...exactly what he said. It's the higher of attack shifts or weapon rating, whichever is higher...
Or did I miss something?
-EF
You are right... i misinterpreted what he wrote.
i took it to be
shifts over defense
or
shifts over weapon rating
It was late... i was tired...
So... much ado about nothing... lets move on ;)
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You are right... i misinterpreted what he wrote.
i took it to be
shifts over defense
or
shifts over weapon rating
It was late... i was tired...
So... much ado about nothing... lets move on ;)
lol!
Tired posting ftw!
I think we've all done that.
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lol!
Tired posting ftw!
I think we've all done that.
If it makes you feel better, I saw what BB wrote, and thought it said "Tired posting PEW PEW!" Yeah, guess what I'm doing now?
~_~.oO(zzzZZZ)
-EF
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The first Ob'enn mention I could find is here:
http://www.schlockmercenary.com:8080/2001-03-22 (http://www.schlockmercenary.com:8080/2001-03-22)
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I just bought Bulldogs! in PDF format. Pure awesomness ;D
I haven't checked everything out yet but I like what I have seen so far.
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I'm excited.
I'm really looking forward to playing it.
The ideas for the GM are endless.
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I hope I can convince some of my friends to play it, it is a really great RPG.
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I have a question-how would you stat out a lightsaber with the equiptment rules?
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I have a question-how would you stat out a lightsaber with the equiptment rules?
Hmm.
I would stat it as:
Unconventional (lightsaber)
Powerfulx4
Accurate
Aspect: Cuts through anything
Aspect: A more civilized weapon
Cost: Epic
Deflecting blaster bolts and such would be a stunt that a Jedi could take. If memory serves, not all Jedi were any good at that. Some just absorbed the energy in their palms. So statting the actual Jedi could be very customizable.
The Lightsaber is very expensive. I reason this is appropriate since in Star Wars lore, a Jedi usually constructed their own lightsaber and this would take the cost way down.
The power could be taken down a notch too.
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I'd start with the Base stats of Vibro Blades, but make it an Unconventional Weapon too.
Unconventional Weapon (Lightsaber)
Damage:3
Lightsabers are deceptively difficult to handle. They Suffer a -1 Base accuracy.
They are hideously effective against most forms of Armor (Damage +3 vs. Armor) but energy shields provide a somewhat greater challange (Damage -3 vs. Shields)
Improvements:
Aspect: An Elegant Weapon for a more Civilized Age.
Aspect: Cut Trough Anything
Concealable
Cost: Good (+3)
To make the Liughtsaber into something really exceptional one would need Accuracy and Power improvements which would raise the cost.
But like BumblingBear said, Jedi usually build their own sabers anyways. So some form of customization is to be expected.
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I have a question-how would you stat out a lightsaber with the equiptment rules?
Brennen Taylor and I chatted about this on Twitter a while back, and this is what we came up with:
Lightsaber: D:5, A:1; Acc.0; Aspect: A Jedi's weapon; Conceal; Powerful; Spec.: +2 Acc if Psi skill higher than melee;Cost:5
That's all I could fit in the tweet, but I'm sure you get the idea ^_^
-EF
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Thank's, nice lightsaber builds. I am thinking of doing a SW FATE game with Bulldogs!. :)
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I've started reading the Bulldogs! book yesterday and I've got a question, which I will blatantly post on this here DFRPG-forum! Mwuahahaha... Ahem...
Anyways, how would one handle Shapeshifting? I find the text a bit contradictive, saying at one point that you can change your skill build, at the same level (number of skill points), but then it speaks about changing the values of your existing skills... Me is confused.
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I've started reading the Bulldogs! book yesterday and I've got a question, which I will blatantly post on this here DFRPG-forum! Mwuahahaha... Ahem...
Anyways, how would one handle Shapeshifting? I find the text a bit contradictive, saying at one point that you can change your skill build, at the same level (number of skill points), but then it speaks about changing the values of your existing skills... Me is confused.
My character is actually a shapeshifter.
This is my character sheet: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/frontier-freebooters/characters/felix (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/frontier-freebooters/characters/felix)
The way I interpreted the rules, if you shapeshift, you have to keep the same skills and the same "tree", but you can mix and match. For instance, if one form does not have trading, the other form cannot magically get it. You can only be better or worse at skills you already have - which makes sense to me.
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My character is actually a shapeshifter.
This is my character sheet: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/frontier-freebooters/characters/felix (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/frontier-freebooters/characters/felix)
The way I interpreted the rules, if you shapeshift, you have to keep the same skills and the same "tree", but you can mix and match. For instance, if one form does not have trading, the other form cannot magically get it. You can only be better or worse at skills you already have - which makes sense to me.
That's what I thought, because, otherwise, quite frankly, it would be totally unbalanced :) But, hey, I just wuv' shapeshifters :) Actually, I never metamorphosis I didn't like...