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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: sinker on July 24, 2011, 12:35:11 AM

Title: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 24, 2011, 12:35:11 AM
So I had an idea for a campaign I might or might not run. Basically since the White Council stays away from all governments, it's safe to say that most governments as a whole are in the dark. And as mentioned in a couple of books, the White Council is too small (proportionally) to catch most of the minor or wizard class talents before their powers fully manifest.

Bearing those two concepts in mind I was thinking about a government psi-ops program that stumbles upon people with talent. None of these people (the government especially) knows about the White Council, the laws, or actual magical practices/concepts. So finding what it believes is actual psychic talent, the government trains them to become psychic soldiers, black-ops style (espionage and assassination, etc), or at least helps them to develop their talents with that in mind. The players are these psychic soldiers.

So here's the dilemma I present to you. I put no law talk in the title, but what I'm looking for are ways to deal with the laws (or the lawbreaker powers). There's no question that these people will be breaking the laws. That's what they are trained to do considering no one even has a basic understanding of the laws. What I'm wondering about is how to work this idea so that all of the PCs remain PCs, but I don't want to ignore the laws entirely, because I do want to represent the slow twisting of these people.

Should I simply give everyone enough refresh to deal with lawbreakers? But then players with talents that can't break the laws, or with less opportunity to break the laws have a ton of fate points. Do I ignore the lawbreaker power, assuming that they all have it to some extent (and what all players have isn't worth buying individually)? But then I don't have an interesting way of recording that descent. Should I lengthen the number of instances between Lawbreaker powers? Should I allow a way to (sort-of) repair the lawbreaker damage? Maybe replacing aspects still, but not loosing refresh? Any other good ideas?
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2011, 01:37:26 AM
Why not just replace the seven Lawbreaker powers with one?

That way, it costs two refresh at most. Which is affordable.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 24, 2011, 01:42:40 AM
That sounds like a perfectly reasonable option, that I have as usual overlooked due to it's simplicity. :)

As a secondary I forgot to ask what people think of the concept (the players as a team of magic special ops) as a whole. Any thoughts there?
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: admiralducksauce on July 24, 2011, 02:02:40 AM
I think it's an awesome idea.  A while back I started a similar thread (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?topic=22893.0) about MKULTRA and its possible descendant programs dabbling in black magic.  I came at it from mainly a source for villainy, but it works as a PC group as well.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: The Happy Anarchist on July 24, 2011, 02:04:06 AM
I like the idea, but I am not seeing where the problem is.

Go for the 10 refresh - or better yet 8 if you don't want anyone to be a full on wizard.  Probably for the best, will also help them all differentiate.  Make them channelers, or evokers only, or ritualists or minor talents.

They will take Lawbreakers.  And they will slowly descend into insanity.  And eventually one or more will break and become NPCs.  This sounds like a dark story you are telling and that sounds intentional, why does it by necessity have a happy ending?  Why not ask what is worth selling your character's soul for?  This game is all about the characters being twisted, so let them be twisted.

Keep in mind, you are not going to be getting like 10 lawbreaker stunts all at once.  Just make sure to advise people not to fill up their refresh costs, then let them get down 2-3 points of refresh.  If you want it to last a bit longer, make sure there are major milestones to add refresh.  That will add the feel that they are constantly riding the edge.

*EDIT* Just to clarify, I feel like dropping to max -2 refresh and combining to one Lawbreaker stunt will lower the flavor, lower the impact and really marginalize it to just a general - I am a bad guy and good at doing bad things.

As opposed to the more flexible, I am a mindbender, and your minds are as toys before me - vs another character that might be killing people and start thinking of themselves as a tool or weapon, or start to enjoy it.  Or a fleshcrafter that begins to find the art in it.

There is just so much more impact and more potential for good story if you don't try and lessen/remove the consequences.  Make it a dangerous game.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2011, 02:33:37 AM
I think the problem arises because the characters do not know about the laws. When you have only 1 refresh left, you're probably going to do everything you can to avoid becoming an NPC. Which will likely lead to behaviour that makes no real sense for your character.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 24, 2011, 02:39:25 AM
I think I'm simply trying to lengthen the game. The way I see it these people will at the very least be breaking the first law every conflict with the possibility of breaking more on a regular basis. That seems like a game that will last all of a session before all of the characters have gone off the deep end. Perhaps some of these solutions are a little too lenient, and I do want a dark game that explores some dark places, but I also want a game.

It occurs to me though that the lawbreaker power is not the sole way of exploring those themes, and in fact it isn't even the best current way. As one takes lawbreaker one must also change aspects. That is the core of the power, and how it explores those dark concepts. If the player's sole connection to the character is as a plaything then I could see the power being more important than the aspect, but I'm lucky to have a group of excellent role-players, so I'm less worried about penalizing refresh as a means to create drama. Maybe I should focus on reflecting that in aspect changes.

Quote from: The Happy Anarchist on July 24, 2011, 02:04:06 AM
Go for the 10 refresh - or better yet 8 if you don't want anyone to be a full on wizard.  Probably for the best, will also help them all differentiate.  Make them channelers, or evokers only, or ritualists or minor talents.

Of note I was already thinking they would definitely be less than functional wizards. Channelers, evokers, and minor talents. I was thinking ritual and thaumaturgy would imply too much trained knowledge, but perhaps an naturally talented crafter or similarly focused ritualist would work. Especially if whatever ritual focus was steeped in folklore.

Another thing I was thinking about that I know you addressed in your MKULTRA thread admiral, What to do with tech in a situation where it's so very prevalent? I can't really rely on magically created equivalents, as that seems like too much trained/refined magic.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Tedronai on July 24, 2011, 03:39:32 AM
If you want to keep the players as PCs despite their lawbreaking and resultant spiraling descent, I would suggest scrapping most of the Lawbreaker powers entirely.  Keep the aspect-twisting rules, but ignore the refresh cost and the casting bonus.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: benign on July 24, 2011, 05:45:28 AM
I think you could keep the lawbreaking powers as-is, have your characters descend into madness slowly, and describe how it is affecting them the whole time. Maybe have some other agents go off the deep end before the PCs do, and have the PCs hunt them down. Describe how every time they kill someone with magic or invade someone's mind during an interrogation, it feels deeply and horribly wrong . . . but that some part of them rejoices at it at the same time. Throw lots of compels at them in the form of nightmares, newly gained neurosis, and dark urges, and link them in any way you can to their most recent lawbreaking activities.

This way your players will understand the dark road they are treading, but on some level so will the characters. Then it won't be so out of place for your military-trained characters to begin wondering whether all this killing and mind-breaking with magic is really a good idea, as they will have some well-founded concern for their sanity. If they ever decided to stop this behavior and leave their lives in the military as a result, well, I can see that leading to more story developments and conflicts as well :D.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Masurao on July 24, 2011, 11:01:31 AM
I can see they will be getting in a lot of situations where they will be tempted to use the forbidden arts, but there are ways around them just as easily. Need to assassinate someone? You could magic him into a charred and roasted crisp... Or sneak in under a veil and shoot him in his sleep. Need to influence some official's decision making? Enter his mind and force him to do it magically! Yay! Or, kidnap his family with the help of magic and blackmail him into making the decision you want.

Unless your PCs are the very, very first magically talented people the government has put in this program, they will have found out how killing and maiming with magic affects people. They already know how important psychology is to black ops people and I would assume these are closely monitored for any abnormal behaviour. A project with these 'psychics' would be even more closely monitored and the changes in psyches would be even more readily and quickly apparent.

Look at it this way: would the government want operatives who can only function because of their 'crutches', i.e. magic? Or do they want capable, willful people, who just get the regular business done that more easily and efficiently thanks to their personal 'tools', i.e. magic? Even the best government assassin would be out of a job, if he could only function at normal (peak) efficiency while high. (Then again, it would be a fun plot to hide the fact that there is such a crutch)
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: ways and means on July 24, 2011, 11:08:41 AM
For zero lore characters I only really see the first, third and fourth laws coming up as the other laws usually require a true understanding of magic or thaumaturgy, it would be reasonable to merge the fourth and the third rules (mind bending law) so you would only be dealing with (-4 -6) worth of refresh with most characters as these characters are unlikely to have refinement (no true understanding of their power) the game should last quite a while. Also lawbreaker doesn't necessarily make you insane it makes you into a monster (Cowl seemed a fully functioning human being capable of logic and reason) the government might like its super soldiers being very dedicated to the job and willing to do ANYTHING to succeed.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Ren on July 24, 2011, 04:58:05 PM
Another possible option could be that the organization in particular is somehow considered an Accorded Group in and of themselves, thus avoiding the whole Law-Breaker thing entirely.
Or heck they could even be an unknown faction of the White Council that runs under the Auspices and watchful eye of the Blackstaff so they are allowed to break certain laws under certain conditions.
But on the whole limiting the kind of magic they can do and leaving the Lawbreaker rules in place as is should be fine. I believe that the intend behind usage defines the actual law-breaking or lack thereof. i.e. using magic to murder a mortal because they peed on your shoes; very bad. Using magic to assassinate an evil Dictator who is responsible for genocide...not so bad. Only the White Council looks at things in black and white, granted they kind of have to or their control would dissolve in a hurry, but would they really want to poke the hornets nest of killing off a bunch of mortal-aligned warlocks? Or even make them aware of the existence of the White Council and the Laws?
As a side note you could also do a variation where the characters are descendants of old Nazi Black Magic Programs from WWII or so...go ahead and be evil, you know you want to...8)
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Rubycon on July 24, 2011, 07:04:25 PM
Why not introducing a npc who tells them about the council and the laws?
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: devonapple on July 24, 2011, 08:55:04 PM
There are two aspects (ha ha) of the Laws of Magic here. There are the offenses that will get you beheaded if discovered by the White Council, and the acts which will stain your soul and get you Lawbreaker Stunts.

If the conceit of the game is that these black ops warlocks are well and truly beyond the White Council's notice somehow, then the beheading element is (for the moment) moot.

As for the soul-staining Lawbreaker element, this depends on what kind of game you want to play. The DresdenVerse establishes that warlocks - who are almost invariably ignorant of the White Council until they are breaking down the door - are corrupted by using magic in particular ways, *whether or not* the White Council is there to point a finger and say "bad warlock!" Butcher has set it up as a fairly immutable consequence of mortal spellcasting, a "natural" effect of doing these things.

So if you want to play a canon-compliant DresdenVerse game, then yes, these acts are going to warp and twist these black ops wizards in the ways that the RAW have set up, in line with the rules of the DresdenVerse as it has been more or less established.

The government may or may not be savvy enough to deploy these wizards in such a way as to slow this descent, or know what to do with them when they turn bad. The government may even have an agreement with another supernatural group to provide them with the equivalent of
(click to show/hide)
(I am also reminded of an anime series I saw recently, called in English "Puella Magi: Madoka Magica"
(click to show/hide)
.

But, if you want to play a Dresden-flavored black-ops game in which this doesn't matter - because they are going to "Special Ops Heaven," then set those rules aside. "Special ops Heaven," of course, from this bit in the Venture Brothers episode "¡Viva los Muertos!":

Hunter: What is all this namby-pamby feel-bad-about-good-wetwork
(click to show/hide)
?! You're beyond good and evil, Superman! You work for the government.
Brock: What about uhhh, humanity and empathy and all that garbage?
Hunter: Who cares? You're going to special ops heaven.
Brock: Really?
Hunter: Really! And it's god-damned great! The G-Man Valhalla! There's trim and guns everywhere. And we eat steak flavored clouds and poop secrets!
Brock: But you're not even dead. You're a woman!
Hunter: And you're a tool, boy, a tool! Built for a single purpose by the United States of shut your third god-damned eye for a good
(click to show/hide)
reason! You can't teach a hammer to love nails, son. That dog don't hunt!
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Mindflayer94 on July 24, 2011, 09:24:36 PM
What I'd do is introduce a stress track, similar to hunger stress. When a character violate one of the laws of magics, they take a hit on the lawbreaker track (which I propose being based on discipline, so as to have characters with plenty of stress), with a number of required shifts. When the operatives are taken out on that track have them take the lawbreaker power that correlates to the action that set off the hit. This way, you can still have the feel of a Dresden game (the descent into madness a la lawbreaking), while not having the players go full on warlock in the first session.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: tetrasodium on July 24, 2011, 09:50:44 PM
Someone else hit on the fact that these people would be closely monitored for abnormalities if they weren't the first ones.. which leads to... a "better living through chemistry!" style aspect with drugs of some form shown to have helped with the side effects of using these "psychic" powers. Potentially think up some alternate side effects to go with them
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 24, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
I kinda see a lot of the ways that lawbreaker manifests as being subtle enough to be missed, or much more likely misconstrued as a lot of other psychological issues that soldiers have to deal with. I do love the better living through chemistry idea simply because I see that as the most likely response the government would have to these people starting to break down.

Just to be clear I know a number of suggestions were on the effect of "follow the laws", but I really don't like that. The whole point is that, having no reason to believe that this is bad, these people are trained to do things in the most efficient way possible. Additionally I see this happening as part of an experiment to create these soldiers. They have no reason to believe that the experiment didn't work or wasn't the source of their powers, and no reason to believe that they don't hold the only talented people. They have no examples of psychics that are not soldiers (since they have no connection to the supernatural at all) so there's no reason that they would assume that killing with magic=bad, most likely they would assume that all psychics go crazy eventually. So even if the players are second or third generation psychic soldiers, it's quite possible that no one would make the connection between breaking the laws and going nuts.

As for the White council being involved I think that's totally up to the players. If they do their job well, then the White Council will never even know they were involved (because if they do their job right no one will know they were involved). If they decide to be really obvious and showy then I think that might be a great time for some wardens tracking them, which could lead to all sorts of interesting ideas (like the US government starting a secret war with the White Council that they still aren't really sure about).

Finally as I've said before I really do want these people to twist and to be bad and break laws. But I don't want the game to end a few sessions in.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Masurao on July 24, 2011, 11:35:29 PM
Quote from: sinker on July 24, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
Finally as I've said before I really do want these people to twist and to be bad and break laws. But I don't want the game to end a few sessions in.

Well, that is your task as the GM as well. Are you going to encourage their characters to throw magic at everything until it works, or inspire them to find more creative ways? With or without the Lawbreaker Powers,  you can gently steer them down one path or the other.

One thing you mustn't forget is the fact that Lawbreaking (per the power) makes it easier to use magic in a similar manner in the future, which is the reason why untutored sorcerers go astray so often. If all your other efforts seem hard by comparison, you're more likely to choose the path of least resistance. Not only that, it actually changes you in the core of your being. So, as others have said, if you use the 'universe' presented in the novels, this factors in, if you adapt it, you can go wild! :)

The stress track that was suggested would probably fit your game best, if you want best of both worlds. Or you could go with something similar as the madness/insanity from Cthulhu.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: zenten on July 24, 2011, 11:44:32 PM
I think making sure that the PCs have spare refresh for picking up Lawbreaker will work fine.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: devonapple on July 25, 2011, 12:13:36 AM
Quote from: sinker on July 24, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
Just to be clear I know a number of suggestions were on the effect of "follow the laws", but I really don't like that. The whole point is that, having no reason to believe that this is bad, these people are trained to do things in the most efficient way possible.

To be clear, my suggestions are predicated upon the established canon in which *knowledge* of the "Laws" is not a factor at all: these magical actions simply, universally, and indiscriminately corrupt mortals by laying Lawbreaker powers on them, whether they are White Council, warlock, hermit, honor roll student, or black ops specialist.

In the DresdenVerse, to propose an elite group of black ops specialists ignorant of the White Council be immune to Lawbreaker fallout is similar to proposing that radiation should not harm someone ignorant of radiation or its harms. It isn't a judgement of right or wrong, except insofar as there is an implicit Good and Evil at work in the DresdenVerse.

Lawbreaker, the stunt, is radiation damage to the soul. It can be avoided or, with sufficient tech/magic, minimized, but it's kind of out there as a "natural "law, even if the White Council is wiped out to the last wizard.

"Lawbreaker," the pronouncement made by the White Council, is a judgement by mortal Wizards against someone who may or may not actually have been twisted by the Lawbreaker power, but who probably did something they don't like.

Edit: that said, it could be a fun game, and I could see a benefit to ignoring those rules. But if the other spellcasters in the universe have to contend with it, then there should be a better explanation than "because black ops is badass" - perhaps some as yet unidentified Sponsored Magic.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: devonapple on July 25, 2011, 12:19:02 AM
Quote from: sinker on July 24, 2011, 11:19:37 PM
Finally as I've said before I really do want these people to twist and to be bad and break laws. But I don't want the game to end a few sessions in.

It's true. If the way to run the game you and your players want means dropping or reducing the Lawbreaker business, then you are free to do so. I think the stress track is a great compromise option, too. I also mentioned Sponsored Magic as a RAW way to do this without worrying about Lawbreaker.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 25, 2011, 12:51:52 AM
Yeah, just to be clear I totally agree devonapple. The laws are universal and apply to everyone in exactly the same way, but in this case I want to dance on that line.

I think the best solution to represent exactly what I want to do would be for everyone to have enough refresh to spare, then I could still play with the line and everyone could twist as they break the laws but everyone would keep positive refresh and therefore remain PCs. The problem I'm seeing with that is I could see a large number of different talents working with this kind of thing. What if someone decides Cassandra's tears is their shtick (it would totally work in a leader and make a really interesting soldier) and that's it. They have no opportunity to break the laws whatsoever. So now they have 15 refresh just hanging out. That's the problem I see with that, so I'm trying to come up with an idea that allows some people to descend into lawbreaking while others don't.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: zenten on July 25, 2011, 01:11:52 AM
Quote from: sinker on July 25, 2011, 12:51:52 AM
Yeah, just to be clear I totally agree devonapple. The laws are universal and apply to everyone in exactly the same way, but in this case I want to dance on that line.

I think the best solution to represent exactly what I want to do would be for everyone to have enough refresh to spare, then I could still play with the line and everyone could twist as they break the laws but everyone would keep positive refresh and therefore remain PCs. The problem I'm seeing with that is I could see a large number of different talents working with this kind of thing. What if someone decides Cassandra's tears is their shtick (it would totally work in a leader and make a really interesting soldier) and that's it. They have no opportunity to break the laws whatsoever. So now they have 15 refresh just hanging out. That's the problem I see with that, so I'm trying to come up with an idea that allows some people to descend into lawbreaking while others don't.

In the game I'm running the PC with 10 spare refresh hasn't run roughshod over the PC with 1 spare refresh.  The powers you get (including Lawbreaker powers) compensate for the lost refresh.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 25, 2011, 01:25:03 AM
Normally I'd agree with you, but from a power standpoint lawbreaker is half a refinement (that can only be used for control) with further limitation.... it's not really worth the refresh...
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: admiralducksauce on July 25, 2011, 04:23:57 PM
I would take the idea of a Sponsor from sponsored magic and use that to represent the downward spiral of these operatives.  I'm not saying give them Sponsored Magic or thamaturgy as evocation or anything, just the sponsor mechanics.

The sponsor isn't really an outside force so much as it is their darker desires after having Lawbroken. 

1.  It's simple.  No additional stress tracks, no differing refresh totals to balance.
2.  It's important when you want it to be.  As the "voice" of their dark side, you can play up their twisting morality and descent into blackest magic when you want to, not when they're just mindblasting some mooks to get at the meat of the current session.
3.  The Dark Powers Are Always Willing to Help (FP for Debt) has always seemed a better way to handle the temptation of power than a flat +1 bonus like Lawbreaker does.  It adheres more closely to the base FP economy as well, and promotes players to accept Compels as well, either to keep in positive FP or to force their hands when they're low and have accrued Debt.
4.  Doesn't necessarily need to be tied to spellcasters.  If you wanted a more general "descent into insanity" type situation, even your pointman with Cassandra's Tears can have "their darker side" as a Sponsor.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 25, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
Oooh, I really like that. I salute you admiral!
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: zenten on July 25, 2011, 06:04:06 PM
Quote from: sinker on July 25, 2011, 01:25:03 AM
Normally I'd agree with you, but from a power standpoint lawbreaker is half a refinement (that can only be used for control) with further limitation.... it's not really worth the refresh...

Except Lawbreaker applies to any element used, and covers both Thaumaturgy and Evocation.  It also doesn't tier the same way as Refinement.  It seems balanced to me.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: tetrasodium on July 25, 2011, 06:30:27 PM
Quote from: admiralducksauce on July 25, 2011, 04:23:57 PM
3.  The Dark Powers Are Always Willing to Help

Fred Hicks explained where that line came from originally in a recent amusing interview (http://"http://www.thewalkingeye.com/?p=973+") with him & Jim Butcher :)
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 25, 2011, 06:36:37 PM
I've been thinking about tech, and I had a question for those of you who are/have been in the military (I haven't seen Bear around lately). How much tech does your average soldier deal with when out doing something? How much standard equipment is high tech? Right now the only issue I can think of is communication, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Radijs on July 25, 2011, 07:05:50 PM
The link's broken
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: DFJunkie on July 25, 2011, 07:26:44 PM
I would be worried about the continual twisting of aspects more than the mechanical cost of Lawbreaker.  Assuming the PCs have relatively limited power sets along the lines of telekinetic, telepath, ESPer, and/or Precog they probably wouldn't qualify for more than one or two types of Lawbreaker.  After maxing it out they'd have 2 or 4 points in Channeling and Ritual, plus 2 or 4 points of Lawbreaker at most.  On the other hand, if the telepath has to twist another aspect every three times he invades someone's mind the character would become one-note pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 25, 2011, 09:27:07 PM
The aspects have to be twisted, but do not have to center around the law itself. One can still have similar aspects before and after they're twisted, and I imagine soldiers aren't going to have a hard time linking their aspects to lawbreaking.

As a secondary I've always houseruled that once all seven aspects have a bit of lawbreaker in them, then there's no need to change aspects any further (unless we're leaning towards a new broken law). They already are the monsters they have become.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 25, 2011, 09:30:35 PM
Are you sure that that's a houserule?

I thought that that was canon.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 25, 2011, 09:41:53 PM
Meh, it was never clear one way or the other. The RAW literally states that one has to change an aspect every three times one breaks a law. It doesn't say when to stop. That said it just makes sense to stop when all of your aspects are twisted.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: ways and means on July 25, 2011, 09:50:45 PM
Or you could twist each of the aspect further each time you go over them, so first time you kill someone you get the killer aspect and the 8th time you get the cold eyed monster aspect instead.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: zenten on July 26, 2011, 12:46:11 AM
Quote from: sinker on July 25, 2011, 09:41:53 PM
Meh, it was never clear one way or the other. The RAW literally states that one has to change an aspect every three times one breaks a law. It doesn't say when to stop. That said it just makes sense to stop when all of your aspects are twisted.

It says a *different* aspect.  So after all 7 aspects have been twisted the RAW becomes impossible to follow.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: BumblingBear on July 28, 2011, 06:39:44 AM
I would go about it 1 of 3 ways.

1. Either this:

Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2011, 01:37:26 AM
Why not just replace the seven Lawbreaker powers with one?

That way, it costs two refresh at most. Which is affordable.

2.  I would not require the PCs to take lawbreaker... reasoning that they found magic /after/ being killers, and that as long as they don't try to time travel and just stick to killing and torture, they are being true to themselves and they believe it's ok.

3.  I would model their powers based on actual powers rather than magic.  For instance, a breath weapon with more ooomf for pyrokinesis etc.

Since a real evocator would need to be taught, and since the person teaching them would know about the white council, I would actually tend to lean towards option 3.

Just like the shape shifting Alphas, the powers that the team manifests could be a display of discipline, a little knowledge, and a lot of hard work.
Title: Re: Military black-ops warlocks (no law talk...sort of)
Post by: sinker on July 28, 2011, 06:52:18 AM
Thanks for the thoughts Bear. I was hoping you might have some response to this.

Quote from: sinker on July 25, 2011, 06:36:37 PM
I've been thinking about tech, and I had a question for those of you who are/have been in the military (I haven't seen Bear around lately). How much tech does your average soldier deal with when out doing something? How much standard equipment is high tech? Right now the only issue I can think of is communication, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

That seemed like an area you had some expertise with.