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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Taer on July 08, 2011, 11:36:16 AM

Title: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Taer on July 08, 2011, 11:36:16 AM
Sanctaphrax asked me to make a thread for the discussion of Ancient BCV templates (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21533.msg1156350.html#msg1156350)

So, what did you have in mind?

As far as the custom abilities go, let's go over them:

The shapeshifter vampire's Flowing Form is based on a stunt I've seen once, where someone proposed free-action shapeshifting. So I decided to make it a -2 Refresh ability, just to be on the safe side. Semi-Intellectus is based on the idea that with a couple of hours and Thaumaturgy, you can basically make any skill roll you like. Based on the Time Increments table, I judged it to be worth about 8 shifts to have such ability "in an instant", therefore the -4 Refresh cost.

The Spellcaster is... well, I don't think he deserves much discussion, as that's basically a Senior Council template tacked onto a BCV template. I thought about making it more generic ie. listing specializations as (Element Power +3 Control +3, Element 2 Power +2 Control +2....) rather than specifying in advance, but decided against it.

Mind-bender's Incite Emotion upgrade is perfectly canon(it's what Vitto Malvora used). Psychic Assault is based on a similar Incite Emotion upgrade, I doubled the cost to -2 just to be safe on the Refresh side. Quick Domination is hard to estimate. I judged that a elder BCV vampire who was trying would have most anyone helpless within minutes, so this is also sort of based on Time Increments. Quick Renfeield is also based on the ~10 shifts that are required to go from a day to an instant.

The Quintessential Vampire's Demon Self is very hard to estimate, since it's so omni-applicable. The restriction that it's only available to negative Refresh characters helps, but I still have no clue what's the proper pricing on that ability. Entropic Claws I'm not sure about, I just liked the idea of the claws of an ancient vampire being equal to battlefield weaponry. Curse Transmittance is Venomous + once again, roughly 10 shifts in Time Increments(as I estimated that normally, one would become a BCV in a day's time). Weather Control is, at its heart, just another way to make maneuvers, like Incite Emotion. I decided that affecting Conviction zones would be worth an additional -2 Refresh. Weather Control is also an ability that makes me wish we had "Area Increments", but lacking those I decided to provide a rough guideline. Greater Cloak of Shadows is there to support them being ridiculously hard to find, which seems appropriate given their 'Must hide' position in the Dresdenverse.

So, do you have any other questions Sanctaphrax?
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: tetrasodium on July 09, 2011, 02:09:57 AM
Vitto's attack was
(click to show/hide)
and limited to just despair (or whatever it was).  Giving your npc fear, despair, and lust might be a bit much though the three mistresses were forceful in expressing their sexual urges in bram stoker's dracula, but didn't really have any special influence beyond that
The fair girl went on her knees and bent over me, fairly gloating. There was a deliberate voluptuousness which was both thrilling and repulsive, and as she arched her neck, she actually licked her lips like an animal, till I could see in the moonlight the moisture shining on the scarlet lips and on the red tongue as it lapped the white, sharp, teeth”
Read a few pages starting on the bottom of page 42 http://books.google.com/books?id=2Vkr9mVFbpQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false where it says "I was not alone" for the full encounter.  Plus I can't recall Mavra doing any sort of emotional pushing on harry except maybe a general awe of hew power the few times.  Most of the incitement of lust & such got added later by ann rice & the like if I;m not mistaken. 
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 09, 2011, 06:22:36 AM
I'm sorry tetrasodium, I don't understand what you are trying to say.

The main objection I have to these writeups is that the torch + pitchfork routine really can't threaten them. A lower Athletics skill and less focused builds would help with that.

I'll go over custom powers tomorrow.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Belial666 on July 09, 2011, 10:17:31 AM
What I am worried about BCV builds in general is that they have all kinds of powers and don't focus on anything specific. Take a look at other 60-refresh supernatural heavyweights and you see that they can have tremendous powers in their type, enough to challenge entire armies or even nations. I even put Superman and The Hulk at only 42 refresh and they can seriously challenge the US military.


So I don't see these vamp builds as doing their 60-refresh power level justice. I think I could get the same levels of power and ability with 40 refresh or so.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Taer on July 09, 2011, 12:16:18 PM
The main objection I have to these writeups is that the torch + pitchfork routine really can't threaten them. A lower Athletics skill and less focused builds would help with that.

Er, yes it does.

Torch and pitchfork routine actually works quite fine against them. If you have 20,000 people with torches and pitchforks then you can do the following: 5-7 maneuvers, one guy tagging them for a hit, rinse and repeat until you're out of people. Since they're people, they can also not just tag but spend Fate Points to get bonuses necessary to hit.

Quote from: Belial666
What I am worried about BCV builds in general is that they have all kinds of powers and don't focus on anything specific. Take a look at other 60-refresh supernatural heavyweights and you see that they can have tremendous powers in their type, enough to challenge entire armies or even nations. I even put Superman and The Hulk at only 42 refresh and they can seriously challenge the US military.

That's.... kind of intentional.

Black Court Vampires are supposed to be very powerful and at the same time have "all kinds of funky vampire powers" as Harry put it. Yet, they're still supposed to be killable by legions of angry humans(possibly aided by some kind of a wizard or a minor saint or whatever) because that's how they went down in history.

One of the things I wanted to stat was for the Elder BCV vampires to have some kind of super-spawning power but normal spawning is not statted in the books, so I didn't know what to do with it. The last template has it explicitly, but if you're worried, remember that /all of them/ have the vampire apocalypse potential.

Still, I'll review them to focus them more on one specific thing.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Belial666 on July 09, 2011, 08:34:33 PM
Taer, what you're trying to do simply can't be done within the powersets you've given them. Beyond a point, there is nothing "torches and pitchforks" are going to do to them while at the same time they don't work very well against enemies of their power level;


Shapeshifter:
They get wings, mythic speed via their modular points, mythic strength and cloak of shadows normally. 200.000 people are attacking? They automatically win initiative, sprint away a dozen zones and there's no way the crowd can follow them. Then they go pick up something heavy. Like a bus, truck, house-sized boulder. Flying over the crowd and hidden by the cover of night and their effective Legendary stealth, they throw the projectile in question, flattening people in a zone. Then they go away, pick up another heavy thing, and throw it down again. They repeat that for 4-5 hours, killing the enemies in 200-300 zones without the crowd ever being able to see them, let alone hit back. With one hour before dawn left, they again flee with mythic speed, moving at the velocity of a speeding car. 30 minutes later they are 30 miles away, in another city/village/whatever. They grab a human from the streets, drink their fill for that day, then go a random place in the wilds another 30 miles away. They launch themselves straight down, dig through solid stone at superspeed for a few more minutes until they're a quarter mile beneath the surface. Then they rest for the day. Come the following night, they fly out of their hidey hole - not from the same place they entered - and fly until they find a village 300 miles away that is remote, has little access and can be easily overwhelmed. And then you got vampire armageddon.
Spellcaster:
I count twelve spells per scene, counting milds. They can do a "plague of madness" psychomancy-as-evocation attack at weapon 4, attack +15 on 5 zones at once while moving several zones per exchange. Takeout on "plague of madness" isn't death; it's a mindless murderous rage against anyone not affected by the spell. They do that 10 times, spreading plague on 50 zones before the enemy mortals can reach them. And then while the madness victims killinate the still-sane mortals, they rip a doorway to the Nevernever with their 11th spell, cross it as a free action due to their speed, telekinetically drag in a mortal with their 12th spell and let the door fade.
Then they drink the mortal's blood and automatically recover all stress with blood-drinker, wait 5 minutes for the next scene (and for the maddenned mortals to killinate more merely stupid mortals) and then they go back for a repeat. They do that for 4 scenes per hour, 5 hours per night, or until they get bored. Then they find some quiet place, use mythic strength and supernatural speed to dig a couple hundred yards into the earth and spend the night.
Come morning, the people in over 1000 zones of the town/city/whatever will be mindless plague victims. Another 10.000 people will have been killed by their maddenned neighbors and the rest would be running as fast as they can.
And then it's night again and the vampire elder is feeling like playing Lemmings.
Mindbender:
Yeah, see above.
Quintessential Vampire:
Flee. Cover the city with a whiteout or deep fog. Start eating/converting hapless humans that can't see their own nose.





In short, as long as it's just humans and minor supernaturals, they are toast regardless of their numbers and actions and they can never even reach the vampire unless they allow it. If it is an actual nation though, they call in airstrikes, artillery and other heavy weaponry - against which they die easily. And other supernaturals at say, 30 refresh, could take out the vampire elder.


So essentially, these builds are basically invincible by large numbers of weak creatures but are easily defeated by one or two creatures that come close to their refresh. (the exact opposite of what you were looking for, IMHO)
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Taer on July 09, 2011, 10:24:41 PM
So essentially, these builds are basically invincible by large numbers of weak creatures but are easily defeated by one or two creatures that come close to their refresh. (the exact opposite of what you were looking for, IMHO)

Suggestions, then?

Because frankly, even without inventing any custom powers or adding anything outrageous the same issues apply.

Super speed, strength, cloak of shadows - those are already present in the base BCV vampires. Making them better is only reasonable for an elder/ancient template. Depending on the interpretation, some form of flight or levitation might be there too - worst case, in a shapeshifted form. Still, while flight is helpful, the same issue of a BCV being able to crush a huge crowd by running away will still apply, whether or not they have flight, since speed and cloak of shadows alone will ensure nigh-untouchability.

And if that's enough that a huge group of mortals can't touch them, then I can't think of a solution, besides inventing some kind of a weaksauce weakness that's not present in normal BCVs or maybe some kind of a faith-based compel vs their HC to deprive them of their powers.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 10, 2011, 02:47:36 AM
Yeah, Belial's covered it.

And maneuvering isn't that simple. You have to hit a difficulty, which may well be based on the target's skills, and you have to justify how the aspect helps the thing that it is invoked to boost. Which may or may not be easy.

I recommend that you drop the Athletics skill enormously. Maybe to Good. That way, normal mortals can land a hit (although not easily) and the BCV runs no faster than the human limit.

Fists, Stealth, and other physical stuff can go down too. I don't think that most Black Court Elders are physically focused.

Maybe raise Toughness above Mythic to compensate.

I always saw shapeshifting as a minor side thing for BCVs. Making their elders among the best in the world at it seems like a poor idea to me. For fluffy and crunchy reasons.

I like the way that these guys are unfocused and weak for their refresh. Vampires in general are like that. NPCs generally shouldn't be optimized anyway, although exceptions abound.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Taer on July 10, 2011, 03:36:52 AM
And maneuvering isn't that simple. You have to hit a difficulty, which may well be based on the target's skills, and you have to justify how the aspect helps the thing that it is invoked to boost. Which may or may not be easy.

That's true, but it's a bit easier if there's 20k people around to do the possible rolls and come up with all the possible ways in which they might maneuver.

I recommend that you drop the Athletics skill enormously. Maybe to Good. That way, normal mortals can land a hit (although not easily) and the BCV runs no faster than the human limit.

Fists, Stealth, and other physical stuff can go down too. I don't think that most Black Court Elders are physically focused.

Maybe raise Toughness above Mythic to compensate.

Hmm... It would make them easier to deal with for mortal cities and such, true. But it also feels like intentionally crippling them.

BCVs being very powerful physically is consistent with their myths. It's also how their write-up works - it has Discipline/Fists at Great, Athletics/Endurance/Intimidation at Good, Alertness and Stealth at Fair. It just looks like those are the kinds of skills they tend to favor.

I always saw shapeshifting as a minor side thing for BCVs. Making their elders among the best in the world at it seems like a poor idea to me. For fluffy and crunchy reasons.

Hmm... Perhaps. We have little info on them besides "they're like Dracula".

I just looked at the base BCV template and asked myself "Where could I go from here?". The animalistic and shapeshifting features resulted in the true shapeshifter. The Mavra-esque path resulted in the spellcaster. Their Domination abilities resulted in the mind-bender. A general picture without focusing on anything resulted in the quintessential vampire.

I like the way that these guys are unfocused and weak for their refresh. Vampires in general are like that. NPCs generally shouldn't be optimized anyway, although exceptions abound.

Less so in their 2.0 version, but the original was, indeed, meant to have about 30ish Refresh with various abilities that would say "this is an old vampire" + the additional template that would expand their capabilities.

See, the problem here is that I'm having an issue with balancing them between "those guys are supposed to be killable by a small city aided by supernaturals" and "a scourge of those guys can take on Mab in a straight fight".

I believe there was one or two previous versions of BCVs, which I liked thematically and could certainly be killable by a large group of mortals but they in no way accomplished the second goal. I did not look at them and go "Those guys might stand a chance against Mab".

I'm starting to think that one of the simplest solutions would be to leave their powers as is and simply expand upon some method of using religious symbols and True Faith powers as a source of easy and powerful compels against their High Concept. The original Dracula certainly didn't deal well with crucifixes.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 10, 2011, 03:45:09 AM
Also not a big fan of Elders lacking powers available to ordinary BCVs. Doesn't make much sense to me. Did they forget how to do those things?

What I like is the way that Human Guise is reserved for the Quintessential Vampire Elder. Makes it seem really special and awesome, despite being free.

Now, for custom powers. Remember that this is all just my opinion, etc.

Flowing Form looks fine.

Semi-Intellectus is kind of interesting, but it has problems. First, it makes your skill list irrelevant. Second, it requires inelegant patching to avoid abuses. Third, I really don't think you should modify Modular Abilities like that. The power's limits are left ambigous in canon for a reason.

Black Court Magic is boring and generic. It needs more flavour.

Well Of Power is bad. It devalues Fate Points, and also it is very boring. Why not just take debt?

At Range probably shouldn't require Quick Renfield.

Communication looks fine.

Fields of Dead Eyes isn't exactly bad, but the execution seems somehow wrong to me.

Minds Are My Playthings is mostly fine, but it should probably be split in two. Also, defining consequences on people seems like bad juju to me. I recommend you cut that part entirely, or replace it with a "maneuver to create consequences" effect like Brutality from the stunt list. The non-raging Renfield part can work without it.

Psychic Assualt seems overpriced. Also pointless as a power. Why not just make it a stunt?

Quick Domination looks fine. A similar upgrade for Incite Emotion would be interesting.

Quick Renfield seems overpriced, but I really can't be sure. Effects like this have no precedent.

Demon Self is bad. Powers should not be restricted based on refresh like that. Also, this is really boring. Also, it's horribly overpowered. Just ditch this.

Entropic Claws is fine. In fact, I've written something similar.

Curse Transmittance is the almost same as Quick Renfield.

Entropic Shield is something that I do not like at all. It makes opposing efforts seem pointless.

Weather Control seems like a variant of Ritual to me. If that doesn't work for you, just make it a -1 power that creates scene aspects and remove the guidelines.

Greater Cloak Of Shadows is a stunt.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 10, 2011, 03:52:08 AM
20 000 people is a bit much, I think. That many people would create a crowd so large that over 99% of them would be standing around doing nothing because there's other people in the way.

My idea about physical power is that vampires sort of cap out physically after a while. In game terms, the optional power list for the template doesn't include True Aim or Mythic Speed. So they explore magic. Look at the Red Court. The old ones use magic and willpower instead of muscle, while the mooks are pure physical monsters.

As for challenging Mab, I recommend using Thaumaturgy. It can do anything.

A Senior Council wizard could single-handedly devastate a nation, but some schlub with a knife can kill him. That's the sort of thing I think we should be shooting for here. But with garlic and a stake instead of a knife.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Taer on July 10, 2011, 05:56:53 AM
Thanks for the comments on custom powers, I'll rewrite them later.

20 000 people is a bit much, I think. That many people would create a crowd so large that over 99% of them would be standing around doing nothing because there's other people in the way.

This is once again based on Jim's comments. When someone asked him about BCVs being taken down, he literally said the number of people that would take elder BCVs on was in the 20 thousand range. It wouldn't work in a game, since it's completely unfeasible to run that many numbers, but that's how it went down in canon.

My idea about physical power is that vampires sort of cap out physically after a while. In game terms, the optional power list for the template doesn't include True Aim or Mythic Speed. So they explore magic. Look at the Red Court. The old ones use magic and willpower instead of muscle, while the mooks are pure physical monsters.

See, here's the thing.

Lord Raith has physical Supernaturals. White Court is supposed to be physically the weakest of vampire courts. Black Court is supposed to be the most physically intimidating. Ortega also has some Supernaturals and they're also not supposed to be as tough physically. If the best and most ancient of Black Court aren't tougher than the best and the brightest of WCV and RCV, those statements sort of all fall apart. I think they're basically mandated to have Mythics given the stats that other vampires receive in OW.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Taer on July 10, 2011, 06:29:09 AM
Also not a big fan of Elders lacking powers available to ordinary BCVs. Doesn't make much sense to me. Did they forget how to do those things?

Originally, it was mostly Shapeshifter that exchanged his power. But the answer to that is pretty simple - I'm assuming that over their very long existence, most of those guys would get a sheet rewrite. It's an out-of-character perspective, sure, but it's not exactly shocking.

EDIT: But, really, I'm already trying to make a somewhat realistic portrayal of them without spending every single point of Refresh on perfectly optimized powers. At the same time, I don't want a Refresh rating that's laughably inflated, so when I see a power that's entirely redundant(such as Domination in the case of a Psychomancy-specializing spellcaster), I just don't think there's much point in including it.

Semi-Intellectus is kind of interesting, but it has problems. First, it makes your skill list irrelevant. Second, it requires inelegant patching to avoid abuses. Third, I really don't think you should modify Modular Abilities like that. The power's limits are left ambigous in canon for a reason.

I'll likely be deleting the shapeshifter template anyway.

Black Court Magic is boring and generic. It needs more flavour.

It's kind of supposed to be. This is a Generic NPC thread. I suppose I could simply write "Sponsored Magic[-2]: Choose your own flavor, Psychomancy at the speed of Evocation recommended, possibly Hellfire or Kemmlerian Necromancy".

Well Of Power is bad. It devalues Fate Points, and also it is very boring. Why not just take debt?

Yeah, I'll delete it.

Psychic Assualt seems overpriced. Also pointless as a power. Why not just make it a stunt?

I based it off Incite Emotion's stress upgrade. Since Domination is kind of the scarier ability here, I decided to double the Refresh cost to be on the safe side.

Quick Renfield seems overpriced, but I really can't be sure. Effects like this have no precedent.

It's based on the Time Increment table. Going from a day to instant is 10 shifts of effect, so that's 5 Refresh. I suppose it could use a decrease in its price due to its overspecialized nature.

Curse Transmittance is the almost same as Quick Renfield.

A bit. Different methods to accomplish somewhat similar things.

Entropic Shield is something that I do not like at all. It makes opposing efforts seem pointless.

Originally, it was a Mythic Toughness&Recovery pair. I'll swap it out for something else.

Weather Control seems like a variant of Ritual to me. If that doesn't work for you, just make it a -1 power that creates scene aspects and remove the guidelines.

The -3 comes comes from it affecting Conviction zones. It's a base power with a -1 Refresh cost and a -2 upgrade to affect Conviction zones. I simply didn't list the upgrade separately.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Belial666 on July 10, 2011, 11:59:35 AM
@Physical abilities;
The Black Court are very, very strong. But they aren't fast. Limit most of them to inhuman speed. That way they don't totally outclass mortals in dodging attacks and being able to keep the distance open. Also, if the catch is the same, don't give someone both Mythic Toughness and Physical Immunity - it doesn't make sense and just takes up points.

@skills:
Highest skills (at Epic) should be conviction and endurance. BC elders are millennia old and both ridiculously tough and very powerful mentally. Beyond fitting their age, having the passive skills as highest gives you extra consequences without needing to spend refresh on them and also fixes their problems if them being too skilled in active skills such as athletics or fists and thus totally outclass mortals.


@Shapeshifter;
You've given those guys more points than there are abilities to take. Since they already have mythic toughness and strength and inhuman speed, and many creature features to boot, giving them more than 10 modular points is self-defeating; they really don't have anything else to take. Add another 3 points for True Shapeshifting (cause the base template already has beast form). Then a stunt to reduce the supplemental action penalties from shifting form by 2, and a -2 power so that any form-changing that takes a full action now takes only a supplemental action. That's 18 points so far. Then add Ritual: Transformation and Disruption and you're done at a total of -47 refresh. They can practically take any form within moments (even change more than once per exchange) and they can be very powerful combatants if they upgrade their toughness to immunity and their speed to mythic with modulars. They also got powerful, if slow, magic; ritual may not seem much but once they reconfigure their points to mythic recovery they can start casting rituals at over 25 shifts easily.


@Spellcaster;
A mere 16 refresh put entirely into spellcasting powers gets you at least 16-shift evocations if you're a blaster. Then give them those powers from the custom powers thread to increase their mental stress track by, say, 3 for -3 refresh. And finally, give them Supernatural Recovery to cover ritual blood sorcery and you are pretty much done. Given the set of Evocation, Stygian Necromancy (as per KN, replaces Thaum for vamps), refinement 9, The Sight, and putting it all into Evocation allows you to do some really nifty stuff with "Thaumaturgy at the Speed of Evocation". For bigger rituals, the Black Court elder not only can fuel magic with his consequences - but can recover consequences with free recovery periods each time he uses his bare hands to sacrifice someone due to "taste of death". Which can amount to some really scary, really big magic, really fast.


Mindbender;
Start with giving Ritual: Psychomancy (-2). Once you take out a mortal with, say, domination, he's already taken out. Rearranging his mind to, say, make a Renfield is a trivial task you can do with a ritual at your base Psychomancy complexity (around 7) that can be done in a couple of exchages (or maybe only one) because you're going to have a discipline of around 7 as well. And said ritual will allow you to do a lot more things other than making renfields.
Incite Obedience, At Range, Lasting, Potent (-4) to use domination in combat. Once they are taken out, the BC elder can immediately use actual Domination in his next action to get a more permanent and more finely-tuned control.
Senses (-3) for full telepathy with all his thralls regardless of distance or interference. He can command them telepathically after making a Psychomancy ritual on them to establish a permanent mindlink - Harry Dresden did that with Elaine and it lasted for decades. A vampire with a lot greater ability in mind magic could do it casually, so no need to spend extra refresh to send commands; the telepathy sense is there so he knows what's happening, not for communication.
Greater Glamours (-4), if you want.
Improved Mindreach (-1) giving mental powers a +2 range.
Field of Dead Eyes (-6) allowing him to affect 3 zones with mental powers without penalties. For every additional zone, -1 to his roll. (that's the correct pricing; a zone is 2 shifts price-wise)


Quintessential Vampire:
No Salvation (-3)  : only the vampire's actual catch can bypass their toughness, not powers that can satisfy catches in general or magic that imitates it.
Physical Immunity (-4), the catch being that all attacks bypass it but deal only half stress. Essentially a half-immunity that makes them that much tougher without making them invulnerable.
Supernatural Recovery (-4)
Supernatural Speed upgrade (-2)
Ritual: Elementalism (-2). Coupled with Mythic Recovery, allows some fairly interesting stuff. Remember that following conjuration rules, the difficulty to cover an entire park with "rain of frogs" is merely 6. Covering a city could probably be done with a 20. So you don't actually need a new, specific power to conjure weather - and ritual can do a lot more than just weather.
Entropic Claws (-1) is good. However Curse Transmittance has no rules basis - you need to base it on some other ability to price it correctly. Therefore;
Blood Curse (-3).  You can curse a person's blood, changing its nature and causing horrible spiritual torture. You can do attacks, maneuvers and blocks at Skill+2 and weapon 4. Being taken out by the Blood Curse makes the victim into a lesser creature of the night under your command.  Based off incite emotion - then add the following;
Blood Mastery (-3).  There is no limit to the number of times you can feed off blood with Blood-Drinker. In addition, you can combine a physical feeding with a lethal Blood Curse.
Telekinetic Reach (-2).  A quintessential vampire has a physical reach of 3 zones, as if she were a much larger creature. She is not actually bigger though; the reach is due to telekinetic power. That would allow such a vampire to rip apart enemies from afar, or reach out to the top of a building to drag herself up -seemingly flying- or lift and throw massive objects and perform other physical actions.
Grace of Darkness (-4). A quintessential vampire is not only fast; she has the coodrination and mental speed to performs multiple similar tasks at once. Provided she can reach them, she could attack or physically manipulate targets in up to two entire zones at once without penalties. She could affect more zones at a cumulative -1 penalty per zone to her action.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 10, 2011, 11:36:31 PM
Domination isn't useless when you have Psychomancy. It lets you a) create enhanced Renfields and b) possess people. Plus, having multiple ways to do something isn't always bad.

My comment about Curse Transmittance wasn't supposed to mean "just use Quick Renfieled for this". It was supposed to mean "my comments on Quick Renfield also apply to this".

I like Belial's suggestions for everything except the Quintessential Vampire.

Black Court Magic is a good idea, but I recommend either not explaining it or choosing a more interesting domain. Maybe it could boost spells that resonate thematically with darkness or feeding.

There's no real benefit to making an aspect affect multiple zones. Scene aspects affect all zones by default.

BCVs aren't really more physically powerful than RCVs. And the gap between them and WCVs isn't huge.

I strongly doubt that Jim meant 20 000 people would take on that one Elder in an open fight. That would make little sense to me.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 15, 2011, 03:07:36 AM
Is this still going on?
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: finnmckool on July 16, 2011, 04:09:39 PM
Just as an over all note and theme, while this does seem more than terrifying enough to justify everyone's inherent fear of the BC, both mortal and other VC's alike, it does seem like...well...a lot. Because, as you've noted, it IS like Dracula, but "Dracula" or "Baby Vlad" was the pale imitation of his father, "The Creature." Any other BCV lords would be lesser than "Baby Vlad," so while he's a good guide, he also represents the upper limits of their power. So, take what we know about Dracula, and go down a step from there. Now, is that a certainty? No. Jim's only touched on the subject, but it's a reasonable place to start from both a story and balance persepective.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 16, 2011, 08:21:28 PM
Wait, Dracula is the strongest BCV?

Where do you get that from?

Anyway, I think that Drakul is probably beyond stats (given our current rules tech). And I don't make that designation lightly.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: finnmckool on July 16, 2011, 09:28:06 PM
Well it's not a lock but it makes perfect sense since his father is "The Creature," and presumably the source of all vampire ill, he's ALMOST as strong, and therefore, probably stronger than all the other BCV's. Especially since he JOINED them, which means he was something else before? But regardless, I know that that doesn't mean he HAS to be, but it stands to reason, and it's a good place to start since he's the BCV we know most about.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: finnmckool on July 16, 2011, 09:30:00 PM
Anyway, I think that Drakul is probably beyond stats (given our current rules tech). And I don't make that designation lightly.

And I don't think that's true, since Stoker's book is supposed to be A) accurate, and B) about Drakul, aka Baby Vlad, we have a pretty good idea exactly what he's capable of. Or was as of 18whatever.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Belial666 on July 16, 2011, 09:35:34 PM
The Black Court has existed since the dawn of mankind - it is considerably older than the Red Court (who has only existed for about 5 millennia) and veritably ancient compared to the White Court (who from their mother language, they appear to be merely ancient Etruscan). Being that the Black Court are both stronger individually and older as a Court than the Reds, consider what the really old elders would look like.  :o

As for Dracula, he's what? Half a millennium old? The only reason he'd even rate as an elder (assuming he does) would be his pre-existing powers.  And Drakul is probably a Dragon, in the biblical sense.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 16, 2011, 10:13:10 PM
By Drakul, I meant the dad. Who is apparently Mab-level, according to something I heard somewhere.

I'd rather not assume Baby Vlad to be the strongest BCV, it strikes me as needlessly limiting.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: bobjob on July 21, 2011, 12:25:00 AM
I almost imagined Drakul the Elder being some kind of demonic dragon thing. As for Dracula, I have worked on statting him up for my own game (he'll make an appearance). In my head, he was probably a century or two old by the time the book was written using his name and he was probably more powerful than Kincaid (physically, probably not skill or stunts wise). Add on BCV powers and he can look downright terrifying being a mixture of half-demon and BCV.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 21, 2011, 12:34:30 AM
What Refresh and skill level were you planning to give him?

Any unusual stunts/powers?
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: bobjob on July 21, 2011, 06:25:45 PM
Quote
What Refresh and skill level were you planning to give him?

Any unusual stunts/powers?

Not sure if this was referring to me or not, but here is my short write up for Dracula including the reasoning behind his powers.



Prince Dracula, Rukh of the Black Court

Powers:
Claws [-1] (Teeth and claws)
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Living Dead [-1]
Incite Emotion [-2]
(Lust, At Range)
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Catch [+2]
(Bram Stoker style weaknesses minus sunlight)
Physical Immunity [-8]
Catch [+3]
(Sunlight)

Blood Drinker [-1]
Feeding Dependency [+1] (affects the following)
Beast Change [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Spider Walk [-1]
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Domination (Master Dominator) [-4]
Gaseous Form [-3]



You'll notice the majority of the powers are from the Master Black Court Vampire (claws, echoes, living dead, blood drinker w/ feeding dependency, beast change, cloak, supernatural strength and toughness, inhuman speed.)

I decided to make Dracula a challenging fight for even a senior council member by splitting one of his toughness weaknesses and stacking it with Physical Immunity. The way I intend it, when it's night out, nothing is hurting him. When there is Sunlight involved (whether conjured or natural), certain things can hurt him. Because of his mixed parentage, he doesn't suffer from the same BCV weaknesses as other vampires his age, one of the contributing factors for his survival this long.

I also added in Spider Walking and Incite Emotion (Lust at range), extrapolated from Bram Stoker's novel. Since the BCVs we've seen so far haven't exhibited these abilities (nor have their stat write ups), I've decided that the novel was a guide for killing BCVs in general and also make others aware that the one named Dracula would break that mold.

I haven't given him any Mortal Stunts... and I may not. He's already at -30 refresh just with powers and his abilities give him quite a bit of versatility. I stayed away from adding magical abilities to his repertoire since I wanted to make him a much more physical threat than Mavra (who I am sure could still get quite physical), but with the Incite Emotion, he can take advantage of others. I was also thinking of giving him a version of Glamours that allow him to change his appearance.

Oh well, these were just my thoughts.

*update: moved the physical toughness and recovery abilities outside of Powers effected by feeding.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: bobjob on July 21, 2011, 07:29:26 PM
I would also postulate that since he had his healing ability prior to becoming a BCV (at least in my head), that he doesn't become all corpsified unless he doesn't feed. I think I need to move his powers around to reflect that.

Another interesting idea, since his bloodline is used as part of Dracula creating spawn, would some of his demonic abilities also transfer over to his spawn? This would make them more deadly than a standard BCV.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: bobjob on July 21, 2011, 08:35:11 PM
While I have the file open, here's another BCV character I created for use later in my campaign. Y'all may notice this is just a re-skinned Donald Morgan from OW197 with a BCV template added. I just thought it would be wicked to have a BCV using a warden sword.


Kirill Volkov
High Concept: Black Court Warlord
Aspect: Former White Council Warden; Knew the Merlin when he was an Apprentice

Skills:
Superb (+5): Conviction, Weapons
Great (+4): Discipline, Intimidation, Lore
Good (+3): Alertness, Athletics, Endurance, Presence, Rapport
Fair (+2): Contacts, Deceit, Empathy, Fists

Powers:
Evocation [-3]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
The Sight [-1]
Soulgaze [-0]
Refinement [-6]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Living Dead [-1]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
The Catch [+3] is Bram Stoker style weaknesses
Blood Drinker [-1]
Feeding Dependency [+1] affecting the following powers:
Beast Change [-1]
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Domination [-2]
Gaseous Form [-3]

Specializations
Evocation: Elements (Earth, Fire, Spirit); Control (Earth +3, Fire +2, Spirit +1); Power (Earth +2, Fire +1, Spirit +1)
Thaumaturgy: Control (Divination +1, Wards +2); Strength (Crafting +1)

Enchanted Items
Warden Sword: Cuts through anything (it counts as a Weapon:3 sword at minimum in all circumstances); 3 times/session acts as either a Fantastic (+6) counterspell or a Weapon:6 item; uses two slots.

Stress:
P: oooo(oooo)
M: oooo; extra mild consequence
S: oooo
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: polkaneverdies on July 21, 2011, 09:06:08 PM
To clarify what has been said Drakul is the stone cold bad mofo Jim put on the list of things that could potentially take Mab out.

Dracula was his son who was a pale imitation of his Daddy's power. He joined the black court in a fit of teenage rebellion.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 22, 2011, 01:54:13 AM
Yes, I was talking to you. Sorry for the confusion.

Dracula writeup looks pretty good. Two suggestions and a nitpick:

1. The first catch looks like it ought to be worth +4 to me.
2. The Recovery should be affected by Feeding Dependency if you want it to work that way.
3. Human Guise might be appropriate, judging by your comments.

Volkov is interesting and badass, but there are a few odd things about his writeup:

1. Soulgaze seems wrong on a soulless vampire.
2. He's got three focus slots free. What does he use them for?
3. Beast Change gives you a second skill set. Is his the same as his normal one?
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: bobjob on July 22, 2011, 05:26:03 AM
For Dracula

1. For the first catch, I took the write up for the Master BCV and removed +1 because it wasn't affecting sunlight and added the +1 later for the physical immunity.
2. I agree that it should go under Feeding Dependency. Now I'm thinking that his recovery powers were always dependent on his feeding, whether it was regular food in his half-demonic state or blood in his new undead state.
3. Yeah, I believe human guise is the way to go.
4. I think he needs some Supernatural Senses. Maybe the ability to hear heart beats and to see heat signatures (similar to Kincaid). These would be hold overs from his half-demonic form.

For Volkov

1. Agreed. All he really needs is The Sight.
2. Good question, I haven't really thought that out. I'm thinking an evocation focus in Earth for power and control and maybe a defensive enchanted item.
3. I don't imagine it would be, but I hadn't gotten that far. This is just the initial write up I had for him, but since he wasn't even in the bullpen yet he isn't complete. Like I said, I pretty much copied down Donald Morgan and added the BCV, changing the name, high concept, and some aspects for flavor.
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Masurao on July 22, 2011, 10:11:17 AM
1. Soulgaze seems wrong on a soulless vampire.

A creature without a soul could still be interested in peering into other people's souls, especially as it is rather harrowing experience for others and they can't actually glean any info from the vampire it. It might not be thematically correct, but I can imagine uses for it :)
Title: Re: BCV Templates - Generic NPCs
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2011, 01:51:43 AM
Dracula:

1. My reading:

+2 for common items (garlic is in every kitchen)
+2 for commonly known (classic novel)
=
+4 Catch, even without sunlight.

2. Sounds good to me.

4. Sure, sounds like a plan.

Volkov:

2. Maybe some potions? He does have a Crafting specialty, after all.

3. You could always just get rid of Beast Change.