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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Belial666 on July 04, 2011, 10:30:33 AM

Title: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Belial666 on July 04, 2011, 10:30:33 AM
Here's my latest character idea, a Scion with the blood of both Ares and Aphrodite in her veins. Mostly used as an NPC, unless you're in a game of high enough refresh to handle fairly strong wardens, vampire warriors and faerie godmothers. In that case, a 18-refresh, 17-year-old demigodess should fit right in. Fitting her into the city and story-wise, I envision her as a model, moonlighting as a hitwoman for hire. Given that Ares and Aphrodite are canonically (and fairly happily) a non-married couple, I wanted to make such a scion build for some time. Plus, waifs with missile launchers can be fun.




Adrestia Sture

High Concept: Grandchild of Love and War  Trouble: Big Happy Family (Not!)
Aspects: Beautiful as Aphrodite, Bloodthirsty as Ares, Concordant Opposition, Vengeance Is My Middle Name, Young - Not Naive.
Stress: Physical  OOOO(OOOOOO) armor 3, Social OOOO, Mental OOOO, Hunger OOOO (extra mild) Refresh and Fate: 18/1

(http://static.culturemap.com/site_media/uploads/photos/2011-06-27/woman_with_gun_jpg_181x181_q95.jpg)

Powers and Stunts:
[-4] Mythic Toughness (catch is acid and True Serenity)
[-1] Power of Ares - Adrestia has strength, toughness and balance that belies her slimness.
She can handle massive weaponry exceptionally well, taking a +1 to attack rolls with such weapons.
[-1] Old Or New, War Changes Not - may use modern weaponry with Weapons just as easily as archaic weapons and vice-versa.
[-1] Aura of Aphrodite - as per "flesh mask" but may not conceal items. May make small changes to her appearance as if by makeup or diguise kits instead.
[-1] Blinding Beauty - The first time someone sees Adrestia in a scene, she is always entitled to the "first impressions" of Rapport, even if it is a combat scene
or has met that person in previous scenes. Aspects thus applied are not just natural appearance; the victim might recognize he's supernaturally manipulated after they wear off.
[-2] Incite/Emotional Vampire: Lust - touch only, rapport-based
[+1] Feeding Dependency: Lust - modifying the following powers;
  [-2] Inhuman Strength
  [-4] Supernatural Speed
 
[-1]  Ravager
       *It is what it is: a grenade-launcher (w4, ranged, area) with a massive warglaive added bayonet-style (w4, melee)
       *Indestructible
       *One-time Discount (+2)
       *Feeding Dependency: Blood - modifying the following powers; (+1)
       *Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)
       *True Aim (-1)
       *Ectoplasmic Ammunition: generates unlimited ammo using the essence of war as fuel; spilled blood. If this is used instead of real ammo, circles block the attack. (-1)
       *Blood-Drinker (-1)

[-1]  Mantle of Mists
       *It is what it is: a sheer nightgown. Somewhat indecent to wear in polite company. (or not - your mileage may vary)
       *Human Guise
       *Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.
       *Tears of the Slain: as Cassandra's Tears, only it predicts wars and violent battles instead of other disasters.

Skills:
+6: Weapons, Athletics
+5: Discipline, Rapport
+4: Alertness, Presence
+3: Conviction, Might, Endurance
+2: Survival, Deceit, Fists
+1: Lore, Stealth, Scholarship
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: InFerrumVeritas on July 04, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
I don't like that she has Epic skills.  We see very few characters with those.  Senior Council and that.
I don't see why she's a vampire.

Otherwise, it looks good.  I'd lose emotional vampire and feeding dependency.  It'll be a wash for refresh and I think work better.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Shecky on July 04, 2011, 02:03:27 PM
Grandchild of Love and War? Must be called "Marriage" or "Family". :D
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Belial666 on July 04, 2011, 02:37:07 PM
She has "Fantastic" skills, not "Epic". The "best ever" mortals like Shiro was with swords are at that level.


As for why she has the "vampiric" stuff, deities typically become more powerful when they spread the axiom, idea or concept they represent. They are also usually tied to that concept in some way and have some powers to cause it - and usually become weaker if they are forgotten/no longer involved with said concept.

So, it's like reverse vampirism. She doesn't need emotions lest she starve (that's why only some of her secondary abilities are tied to the dependency), but she does get stronger if she spreads lust - and her weapons become more powerful if she causes lots of mayhem.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: sinker on July 04, 2011, 06:13:50 PM
I'm confused. Is your rocket launcher a weapon 8 (with Hephaestus adding to what it is) or a weapon 6 (with Hephaestus explaining why it's two higher than what it should be)?

Either way that's a ridiculous amount of damage considering explosives are supposed to be a 4. Then again I've never played/run an 18 refresh game, so I don't know what the scale is here.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Tedronai on July 04, 2011, 06:28:07 PM
Either way that's a ridiculous amount of damage considering explosives are supposed to be a 4. Then again I've never played/run an 18 refresh game, so I don't know what the scale is here.

'grenades and battlefield weaponry' are listed as '4+'
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Belial666 on July 04, 2011, 06:49:16 PM
Normally, a soldier could handle weapon 4 heavy weapons like antimateriel rifles and grenade launchers. Due to her "Might of Ares" she can easily handle heavy weapons like miniguns and missile launchers at least as large as the FGM-148 Javelin or Starstreak 2 (that can take out tanks in single hits - hence weapon 6). The specific missile launcher is further enhanced to have a +2 weapon rating.

As for damage, here are typical damages;

Fist: w 0
Mortal, Knife: w 1
Mortal, Rifle: w 3, long ranged
Grenade: w 4, thrown
Grenade Launcher: w 4, ranged
Ghoul, claws: w 4
Ghoul, javelin: w 4, ranged
RCI/WC, heavy sword: w 5
Chest-deep wizard: w 6, ranged
Submerged giant, javelin: w 7, thrown
submerged giant, sword: w 8
submerged wizard: w 8, ranged
submerged giant, car: w 9, thrown
optimized submerged wizard: w 10, ranged

She's at the typical upper limit for submerged, damage-wise.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 05, 2011, 03:30:36 AM
Character looks alright, though I'd have to go over a few things more carefully if someone were to want to play this as a PC.

One question about the table. It looks as though you are giving the Submerged giant a +5 strength bonus to stress. Why?
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Belial666 on July 05, 2011, 08:26:52 AM
A submerged giant would have Supernatural Strength [-4], Supernatural Toughness with a +2 catch such as "fires of muspelheim" [-2], Hulking Size [-2] and have a free refresh to get whatever he wants.

Using his bare hands he's weapon 4.
Using a human-sized greatsword (giant-sized shortsword) he's at weapon 4+3.
Using a giant-sized greatsword or battleaxe he's at weapon 4+4.
Using a car he's at weapon 4+5 - and then he needs another car.  :P
Using the "off-hand weapon training" stunt and wielding 2 huge weapons, he's at weapon 4+4+2
Using an Item of Power huge weapon, he could be at weapon 4+4+2 with True Aim.


Hulk Smash!
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 06, 2011, 05:12:35 AM
Oh, I see.

I thought that you were using the same base weapon ratings for a human's sword and a giant's sword.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Becq on July 06, 2011, 10:54:46 PM
Questions of balance aside, I wonder:

Isn't -1 refresh for three Items of Power granting at least seven powers a bit generous?
Aren't you missing three aspects required to specifically reference those IoPs?
Given that IoP impart their powers on the wielder, does this mean that you must feed only by drinking the blood of those in the throws of lust?  (Note that I don't think you can regain refresh by taking the same power twice.)
How do you rationalize how you manage to steep an item so firmly based in modern technology (missile launcher) with magic without hexing it into oblivion?
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Arcane on July 07, 2011, 12:50:09 AM
How do you rationalize how you manage to steep an item so firmly based in modern technology (missile launcher) with magic without hexing it into oblivion?
I'm guessing the same way
(click to show/hide)
, either divine magic doesn't hex technology the way mortal magic does, or the missile launcher is actually a divine weapon which manifests physically as a missile launcher.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Michael Sandy on July 07, 2011, 02:38:44 AM
I like the name and flavor of her Aphrodite stunts.  She is probably less powerful than a more focused 18 refresh character would be.  She could probably hang around with 13-15 refresh characters without overshadowing them.  Level 6 skills would be appropriate for characters in that range.

The total bonus refresh for the Items of Power can not exceed +2, no matter how many you have.  I like the "ectoplasmic ammunition".  That is a wonderful mechanic for not running out of ammo.

One issue:
Weapons and Guns are typically different skills.  That is a very powerful stunt to allow Weapons for all weapons, modern/ancient/melee/ranged
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 08, 2011, 12:43:33 AM
Hexing is not a problem unless you are a mortal spellcaster.

I don't think the Lust Feeding Dependency affects the IoPs.

By my math, the Items Of Power are more or less correctly costed. They just use a rather broad interpretation of It Is What It Is, a -0 cost for Ectoplasmic Ammunition, and also a second Feeding Dependency. It's all very sketchy, I admit. Especially the second Feeding Dependency.

And yeah, that's a very broad stunt.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: sinker on July 08, 2011, 12:53:49 AM
I could see it as a couple of stunts, each folding a different trapping of guns into weapons. I suppose you could simply use a single stunt to steal the gunplay trapping and call it good.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Tsunami on July 08, 2011, 02:11:26 AM
By my math, the Items Of Power are more or less correctly costed. They just use a rather broad interpretation of It Is What It Is, a -0 cost for Ectoplasmic Ammunition, and also a second Feeding Dependency. It's all very sketchy, I admit. Especially the second Feeding Dependency.
I have to disagree on the correctly costed part.

I've added theoretical power costs, otherwise it's just as Belial wrote it up

[-1] Items of Power (includes one-time discount)
       Ravager
       *It is what it is: a missile launcher (as per grenade launcher but weapon 6 and longer-ranged)
       *Indestructible
       [-1]*Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating
       [-1]*True Aim
       *Ectoplasmic Ammunition: generates unlimited ammo using the essence of war as fuel; spilled blood. If this is used instead of real ammo, circles block the attack.
       Bloodseeker
       *It is what it is: a short-handled for its size battleaxe, with a massive axehead, one iron edge, one silver edge (weapon 5)
       *Indestructible
       [-1]*Blood-Drinker
       [-1]*Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.
       [+1]*Feeding Dependency: Blood
       [-0]*Tears of the Slain: as Cassandra's Tears, only it predicts wars and violent battles instead of other disasters.
       Mantle of Mists
       *It is what it is: a sheer nightgown. Somewhat indecent to wear in polite company. (or not - your mileage may vary)
       [-0]*Human Guise


two problems with the IOPs

a) as it's written up now, Feeding dependency only affects The Cassandras Tears knockoff, and hence would not reward any points. Even if it would affect the Concordant Opposition Power, it would still give no refresh bonus, since it has to affect at least -2 refresh worth of power, and these are just not there. And it would make absolutely no sense at all for it to affect Blood drinker, or powers not on the Bloodseeker. Therefore: No bonus from feeding dependency.

b) I think Ectoplasmic ammunition should cost -1. All the IoP's that allow for recall, so they can be used as a thrown weapon over and over again charge refresh for that. I think this falls in the same category.

This would make the IoP's total cost a -3.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Becq on July 08, 2011, 04:34:12 AM
As an aside, even if you price Ectoplasmic Ammunition at -0, the total cost would be -3.  Why?  Because you can only take the IoP one-time discount once.  Applied to Ravager, the maximum one-time discount would be +1.  Pricing Ectoplasmic Ammunition at -1 would allow you to claim a +2 discount on Ravager, which results in the item costing the same refresh either way.

As to the "It Is What It Is", consider the following schenanigans:

[-1] Power Armor Suit
       It's a highly advanced military-grade power suit brought back from the distant future.  Made from alloys available only to future science, it grants an armor rating of 20 against weapons of similar or more advanced technological design; to represent its near-impervious nature against more archaic weaponry it grants the equivalent of Physical Immunity with the Catch of Advanced Futuristic Weaponry.  As powered armor, it also greatly enhances the strength and speed of the wearer, granting the equivalent of Mythic Strength and Mythic Speed.  Several weapon systems are incorporated into the armor suit, included a focused plasma blaster (weapon: 20 with armor piercing 10) and a plasma missile launcher (weapon: 20, affecting the target zone and all adjacent zones); these weapons benefit from a computerized targeting system that grants a +5 to Guns rolls when using PAS weaponry.  It incorporates jump-jets which allow the wearer to fly.
       Unbreakable
       [+2] Discount Already Applied
       [-3] Advanced Neural Link (as True Aim but with a +3 bonus, applies to integrated PAS weaponry)

Sound reasonable?
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Sanctaphrax on July 08, 2011, 04:45:27 AM
I assumed that the Feeding Dependency applied to all powers on the Items Of Power. I have no real basis for this assumption.

I also treated the items as a set for the discount. Which may or may not be fair, I dunno.

PS: Becq, be serious.

It Is What It Is for a weapon 6 rocket launcher is actually pretty reasonable, as long as you'd allow a mortal character to have a weapon 6 rocket launcher. Which I would, in some games. Weapon 5 giant axe is more questionable, though. I'd probably stick with 3 or 4 as the limit for a muscle-powered melee weapon.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: kihon on July 08, 2011, 05:13:14 PM
The power suit is a joke - right?  Mythic speed & strength.... lmao
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: UmbraLux on July 08, 2011, 05:37:58 PM
The power suit is a joke - right?  Mythic speed & strength.... lmao
I suspect Becq is making the point you can't give an item arbitrary powers and then simply charge -1 refresh because "the item is a MacGuffin" (It is What It Is).

Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Becq on July 08, 2011, 09:35:45 PM
You actually thought that the mythics were more of an issue that the physical immunity to everything but weaponry from the far future, and the AoE weapon:20 attack?  :)

And it's depressing that anyone was even the least bit unsure as to whether or not the power armor idea was serious...
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: devonapple on July 08, 2011, 09:52:48 PM
And it's depressing that anyone was even the least bit unsure as to whether or not the power armor idea was serious...

::looks up from his keyboard::

Oh, it wasn't? I was about to give it to the White Court Mayor of my San Francisco game.

::deletedeletedeletedeletedelete::
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Belial666 on July 08, 2011, 10:59:31 PM
@Old or New, War Changes Not:
It's pretty much the same stunt as in the Gruff writeup, except I put down "weapons" instead of "guns" as the base skill. Either skill would work - but "weapons" would fit more a descentand of Ares.

@mythic abilities:
She is at the same power level as Magog or Ursiel. One mythic ability is expected.

@Items of Power:
I messed the pricing and I'd originally intended the Ravager to be a single weapon. Dividing in two did not work and I missed the problems it caused. Here's a fix;

[-1]  Ravager
       *It is what it is: a grenade-launcher (w4, ranged, area) with a massive warglaive added bayonet-style (w4, melee)
       *Indestructible
       *One-time Discount (+2)
       *Feeding Dependency: Blood - modifying the following powers; (+1)
       *Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)
       *True Aim (-1)
       *Ectoplasmic Ammunition: generates unlimited ammo using the essence of war as fuel; spilled blood. If this is used instead of real ammo, circles block the attack. (-1)
       *Blood-Drinker (-1)

[-1]  Mantle of Mists
       *It is what it is: a sheer nightgown. Somewhat indecent to wear in polite company. (or not - your mileage may vary)
       *Human Guise
       *Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.
       *Tears of the Slain: as Cassandra's Tears, only it predicts wars and violent battles instead of other disasters.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: UmbraLux on July 09, 2011, 12:41:29 AM
@Old or New, War Changes Not:
It's pretty much the same stunt as in the Gruff writeup...
It is...but that stunt doesn't follow the stunt building guidelines.  I'd recommend something more like Armed Arts.

Quote
It is what it is: a grenade-launcher (w4, ranged, area) with a massive warglaive added bayonet-style (w4, melee)
Disregarding the weapon values, this is a bit more...anime-ish than I see in a standard DF game.  But whatever works for your group.  :)

Quote
       *Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)
This is underpriced for the power.  See YS147 for stunt building guidelines.  Powers are only slightly more efficient than stunts.

Quote
       *Concordant Opposition - may take a mental stress hit to boost an attack roll or a defense roll by the amount of stress she took,
         to a maximum of 4. May take a 2-stress mental hit to degrade physical immunity down to mythic toughness.
You're pricing this at -0?  Knocking physical immunity down is fairly significant.  Also, I don't really see how it fits the item.  How does a nightgown let you hit things better and make ghosts (one example) physical?
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: ways and means on July 09, 2011, 03:13:59 AM
*Hephaestus-Forged Weaponry: +2 weapon rating (-1)
This is underpriced for the power.  See YS147 for stunt building guidelines.  Powers are only slightly more efficient than stunts.

To quote the stunts guideline you can increase weapons rating by two under a particular condition and the particular condition for this stunt is that it only applies to one weapon the "Ravager."

What I don't understand is why Belial is charging 0 refresh for a rehashed Sacred Guardian Power (-1 refresh power) which is also a lot better than Sacred Guardian (Sacred Guardian allowed a -2 mental stress hit just to affect spirits).    

Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Becq on July 09, 2011, 03:56:09 AM
To quote the stunts guideline you can increase weapons rating by two under a particular condition and the particular condition for this stunt is that it only applies to one weapon the "Ravager."
So it's a bonus that applies 100% of the time when you'd be using the bonus?  That's pretty darned limited.  Perhaps it should continue to grant the bonus to weapons in the same zone?  Considering that it wouldn't be granting bonuses to 99.99999% of the weapons existing it the world, that's still limited enough, right?

Sorry, I don't feel as though limiting a stunt to the only attack you plan to ever use it with (because it's linked to a weapon that grants a refresh discount of its own) counts as a 'limited use'.  If you get the bonus once per scene, or in conjunction with a Fate expenditure, sure, but this bous applies to every situation that it *could* be of use.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: UmbraLux on July 09, 2011, 04:01:05 AM
To quote the stunts guideline you can increase weapons rating by two under a particular condition and the particular condition for this stunt is that it only applies to one weapon the "Ravager."
Yes...however increasing it by two for a characters primary weapon seldom qualifies as a "particular condition" in play.  It probably qualifies as the specific circumstance which might grant a +1...or might not.  The examples are narrower but the language isn't exactly clear.
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: ways and means on July 09, 2011, 05:39:23 AM
You defiantly can get a +1 to accuracy with a certain type of weapon as a stunt, the example from the book being

Way of the AK (Guns): Sanya gains a +1 to
attacks made with guns of Russian or
former Soviet manufacture.

Considering the AK47 is perhaps the worlds most common gun so in comparison a +1 to a specific weapon would be much more limited than this. Belial could defiantly justify a Way of the Rocket stunt which is probably better than a +2 to weapons because you get +1 damage and significant increase in your hit rate. 
Title: Re: Grandchild of Love and War
Post by: Belial666 on July 09, 2011, 08:48:09 AM
@UmbaLux;
I didn't add the prices to the Mantle of Mists as the only thing that has a price IS the Concordant Opposition power. The MoM takes no cost reductions whatsoever as it is the second IoP. As for how it fits, is is the Power of Love helping you in your fights via morale or divine blessing. Aphrodite did manipulate warriors through love  - hell she even started entire wars. (that's the reason she's Ares' main squeeze btw)

@Becq;
Take a look at any powers (not stunts) that just add +2 stress to a single ability or attack. All of them cost -1. For a -2, Inhuman Strength adds +2 stress to all muscle-powered attacks, not just one, and has significant other bonuses to boot. And Hephaestus-forged weaponry is a power by default, given that it is an IoP ability.

@ways and means:
Sacred Guardian allows you to completely negate the toughness/recovery/immunity of spiritual entities for a 2-point mental hit. Most people don't realize just how many spiritual entities are there. We got Outsiders, Demons, Angels and Fallen Angels, Ghosts and their ilk, Fae spirits like Bob, Elementals and Genius Loci like the Demonreach and that's just for the primarily "Western" myths. A good 1/3 of all supernaturals are spirits.
If anything, "Concordant Opposition" is a bit downscaled because it only affects Immunity (not all toughness), which is a lot rarer than spirits.