ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: SunlessNick on June 28, 2011, 05:34:54 AM
-
Over in the thread on Rune Magic, it was mentioned that for the most part, the props in Dresdenverse magic are just props - they make it easier, but if you're good enough, you don't need them.
But what if you do? Not psychologically, but metaphysically, your magic won't work without a particular aid - either part of a sponsorship deal, or just a quirk (the specific idea I'm thinking of is someone with a severed left hand whose bones she still has and uses in her magic).
In such a case, would it be worth giving the Item of Power discount to the magic (it almost certainly wouldn't have the normal trappings of a real Item of Power, though). Or charging Ritualism's prices for Thaumaturgy's effects - the restriction not being the effect you can do or what you can do it on, but when and how you can do anything at all?
What if it was a type of item? Say, you categorically need a set of runestones, but any set will do?
-
Absolutely require a specific item to perform any working at all? It might be reasonable to represent with an Item of Power.
What trappings are you considering not including?
Require only a specific kind of item? Represent it with an aspect. Not having access to a suitable item would then be a compel.
-
We have a wizard in our group who has an IoP staff. It allows him to cast evocation spells, but without it he is limited to his thaumaturgy. For flavor, it's described as him needing the staff to quickly channel power as he is a bit of a "magic nerd" and has a much higher lore than any other casting stat. For him, magic is very mental, very academic. The staff opens up channels in his mind that bypass these mental blocks he has. We gave it a discount (only -1 even though a staff would normally be -2 because our GM felt -2 would be cheesey for magic).
-
What trappings are you considering not including? - Tedronai
The specific idea I had was someone whose left had had been severed, but she still has the bones in a bag, and needs them to access her magic. Unlike an Item of Power, they wouldn't be unbreakable, and they couldn't be loaned out - they wouldn't give anyone else magic, only her* - which is why I'm dubious about calling them an Item, thus implying they're the source rather than a catalyst.
* They would of course be one hell of a sympathetic link, against which she couldn't even attempt any wards.
The Aspect idea for a type is a cool one though, thanks.
-
The specific idea I had was someone whose left had had been severed, but she still has the bones in a bag, and needs them to access her magic. Unlike an Item of Power, they wouldn't be unbreakable, and they couldn't be loaned out - they wouldn't give anyone else magic, only her* - which is why I'm dubious about calling them an Item, thus implying they're the source rather than a catalyst.
* They would of course be one hell of a sympathetic link, against which she couldn't even attempt any wards.
The Aspect idea for a type is a cool one though, thanks.
That sounds like an Aspect would be the best option. It sounds like a potential Fate Point farm.
Though it is plausible the caster kept the remains on general principle, one wonders how the caster would have come around to the knowledge that the hand - the bones in particular - was/were going to be necessary for spellcasting going forward.
-
There's no reason this can't work as an IoP. That's a pretty perfect rules system to implement this. It is ALSO a Fate Point Farm in that it gives you an extra Fate Point every session. If it is essentially a massive crutch for using magic, there's no reason why a GM wouldn't let you spend a Fate Point to emulate the IoP for a scene. All that seems like a good way to have it work. This would stretch the IoP rules slightly only in two respects. One, you couldn't lone it out (by that's an easy agreement for everyone at the table to make). Two, an IoP like that is probably going to be worth something like 5 Refresh (3 Thaum, 3 Evoc, -1 Size). So as a temporary power one Fate Point might seem a bit light, but I don't think this is the case since that's actually most of the character tied up into that one item (and an item that just gives say Ritual, with all other powers part of the character, would only cost 1 FP). Hmm, as far as Temporary Powers like this go, I would say that if you lose an IoP that is a crutch like this, just paying the discount of the IoP in Fate Points makes sense to activate the power for a scene.
An aspect is another way to go, to about the same effect. Then again, you might be able to find a more interesting aspect instead -- I am not sure how much this one would come up.
-
I was just re-reading the chapter on aspects and I think that could be very well represented by an aspect with compel potential. One of the primary purposes of compels is to limit your options, or restrict you from doing something. Seems perfect to me.
The only reason why I wouldn't go with the IoP is, as you said they aren't the source of power, merely a necessary crutch. By definition (look at the first paragraph describing IoPs) an IoP is an external source of power. Additionally an IoP has four abilities (if you count the refresh refund as an ability) and by your own description this would not have two of them (unbreakable and imparted abilities though the second it kinda has... sort of). The concept would probably work just as well with an IoP, but it would require a little tweaking, and since the aspect works so well I'd just go that way.
-
Not all IoPs need to be unbreakable; hexenwolf belts are an example of one that isn't. There's certainly no reason to be bound to some relatively minor details like that or even the more minor one that the IoP has the power inside it.
My only concern with an aspect is that while yes, you can take compels to not be able to use magic, overall I just don't see that coming up that much. So it might not make for a very interesting aspect since it isn't a very fun compel since it shuts down all of your magic. I'd think GM and player both would tire very quickly of the idea of the bones getting taken away. I'm just saying another aspect might be more fun.
-
I wasn't saying that IoP wouldn't work, just that it seems a poor fit to me, while the compel seems a better fit.
You're right though, if that's the only dimension to the aspect then it would get boring really fast. Which is why I would suggest an aspect that includes this but is not limited to it. Perhaps an aspect based on how they lost the hand, or how their magic works as a whole. Those could be great aspects.
-
My only concern with an aspect is that while yes, you can take compels to not be able to use magic, overall I just don't see that coming up that much. So it might not make for a very interesting aspect since it isn't a very fun compel since it shuts down all of your magic. I'd think GM and player both would tire very quickly of the idea of the bones getting taken away. I'm just saying another aspect might be more fun.
An IoP requires an Aspect connection, first of all, so being able to Compel situations related to that item is already built into the RAW. Moreover, having said IoP taken away from time to time is one of the classic IoP/Focus item tropes, and one of the reasons one *gets* a discount, in addition to being tied into whatever politics/history is part of the IoP's heritage.
-
The specific idea I had was someone whose left had had been severed, but she still has the bones in a bag, and needs them to access her magic. Unlike an Item of Power, they wouldn't be unbreakable, and they couldn't be loaned out - they wouldn't give anyone else magic, only her* - which is why I'm dubious about calling them an Item, thus implying they're the source rather than a catalyst.
I love that idea. You could put a nice spin on it, if the character is from a family of wizards that is focused on bones (which does not necessarily have to be black magic, though possibly not spotless white either), and over the generations a magical item has been kept in the family, created from the bones of their ancestors and added to whenever a wizard in the family dies. Now that the wielder of the item has added a bone himself might sort of overcharge the item and make it even more powerful (and/or weirder), than the accumulated power of the late wizards combined.
Another idea would be a magical prosthesis made from its gold (or another metal) coated rune carved bones. In that case it should definitely be an IoP and could also include the claws power (or even the "breath weapon" power, so the character can throw around the bones and have them reattach into his bonehand afterwards) . That claws thing might come from the fact, that I just saw the wolverine movie last night ;)
If you don't want to make too big a deal of it, an aspect would be the way to go. It would be the aspect that best defines the use of your magic. Any time you have the item with you, you can (but don't have to) invoke it or have it compelled if for some reason you get separated from it.
-
My only concern with an aspect is that while yes, you can take compels to not be able to use magic, overall I just don't see that coming up that much. So it might not make for a very interesting aspect since it isn't a very fun compel since it shuts down all of your magic. I'd think GM and player both would tire very quickly of the idea of the bones getting taken away. I'm just saying another aspect might be more fun.
Additionally this is the very thing that the OP is asking for. How can I represent a situation under which all of my magic is shut down? Seems odd to rail against the goal of the post itself.
-
Though it is plausible the caster kept the remains on general principle, one wonders how the caster would have come around to the knowledge that the hand - the bones in particular - was/were going to be necessary for spellcasting going forward. - devonapple
There's a "mystic royalty" thing going there - the way folklore attributes certain magical qualifications to be a "true king" (or queen in this case), a common one of which is being whole in body* - essentially, her magic depends on being whole, and the loss of her hand was supposed to take away her talent. However, it turned out to be a little less strict than that - she still had to have her hand, or at least what was left of it (I might mummify it rather than skeletonise it, come to think of it), but it doesn't have to be attached.
* Although the right mutilation - like a missing hand - is a common too.
An IoP requires an Aspect connection, first of all, so being able to Compel situations related to that item is already built into the RAW. Moreover, having said IoP taken away from time to time is one of the classic IoP/Focus item tropes
Mm, there's no point in setting up a character this way if loss of the bones wasn't going to be something she'd have to worry about. (Although as my first paragraph might imply, I'm trying to leave a wider range of hand-related hooks open than just that).
You could put a nice spin on it, if the character is from a family of wizards that is focused on bones (which does not necessarily have to be black magic, though possibly not spotless white either), and over the generations a magical item has been kept in the family, created from the bones of their ancestors and added to whenever a wizard in the family dies. - Haru
I like that, thanks. And it fits with the royalty angle in a morbid sort of way.
Thankyou for the advice everyone.
-
There's a "mystic royalty" thing going there - the way folklore attributes certain magical qualifications to be a "true king" (or queen in this case), a common one of which is being whole in body* - essentially, her magic depends on being whole, and the loss of her hand was supposed to take away her talent. However, it turned out to be a little less strict than that - she still had to have her hand, or at least what was left of it (I might mummify it rather than skeletonise it, come to think of it), but it doesn't have to be attached.
You could go with a skeleton hand that is attached like a hook onto the stump. Just to "flesh it out" (parden the pun) a bit, when the IoP-hand is used to cast a spell, it gathers around it some ectoplasm and creates the appearance of an intact hand. And maybe when the ectohand dissolves, it might actually hurt again. Like the pain some people feel in a limb that has been amputated, only this happens when the magic from the hand fades away.
-
You know, it seems to me that the entire Item Of Power power could be rewritten to work entirely through aspects. It wouldn't have to give a refresh rebate.
-
What about a modified "catch"?
-
Costed how?
-
What about a modified "catch"?
That's essentialy what 'Item of Power' means, it is the catch that the ability or rather the item the ability is attached to can be taken away, and the item is always somewhat obvious, at least to those in the know.
-
It seems like the main point here was to create a condition under which a certain power (evocation/Thaum) does not work. Thus a catch (kinda).
An item of power is inherently an item that has power.
Is the focus the item itself, or the condition of having it or not.
Also, what if a certain item is lost/destroyed and then replaced?
It just seems to be easier to model the situation with the catch. At least to me.
-
Mechanically, I don't see much difference between a catch and an IoP in this case.
Could you elaborate, please?
The lost/destroyed thing seems to apply equally with both methods, so far as I can see.
-
Additionally this is the very thing that the OP is asking for. How can I represent a situation under which all of my magic is shut down? Seems odd to rail against the goal of the post itself.
I only meant that an IoP does this better than just an aspect. A pure aspect would have to say one thing and mean a host of other things, unless it is going to be "All my magic power is in me bag o' bones" or something. Yes, you can certainly make it so it works that way and so everyone understands it. However, I do not think it is terribly elegant when you want to also have all these crunch aspects too.
An item that has powers attached frankly screams IoP, and it is simply enough to modify the base IoP rules to get it to work perfectly. It would be like making a vampire, and instead of taking Hunger, just taking an aspect to cover it. The result is much more crude.
-
My point was this: the Bones in the running example are in and of themselves not magical (they could be but I don't think that was the original intent). The the character for whatever reason (extreme object fixation, actual metaphysical laws, whatever) cannot use magic without them. Just like inherited silver is not in and of itself magical (yes, I can understand the debate here), but to the right critter...
My argument is to look at a catch as not just the presence of something (like the abouve silver in bullet for suddenly impacting your body) and expand its meaning to include the ABSENCE of something.
Also, with a catch, you don't have as many steps to go through for the same result (K.I.S.S principle).
-
I only meant that an IoP does this better than just an aspect. A pure aspect would have to say one thing and mean a host of other things, unless it is going to be "All my magic power is in me bag o' bones" or something. Yes, you can certainly make it so it works that way and so everyone understands it. However, I do not think it is terribly elegant when you want to also have all these crunch aspects too.
The way I see it most aspects should say one thing and imply many things. Then there are many interesting and creative ways to use it. "All my magic power is in me bag o' bones" is a terrible aspect because it does one thing and one thing only.
Consider the following example. I have the aspect "Sound body, sound magic." That implies a whole lot of things. I'm probably a health and fitness nut. This can be invoked on athletics and might checks, as well as scholarship (health knowledge and first aid). I'm obviously a mage, and probably a good one. I can invoke this for bonuses on magic rolls. I suppose you could also go with the cheesy double entendre and say maybe I'm an air/sonic mage but I'm not so much a fan of that.... But most importantly it implies that they are connected, and perhaps a unsound body equals unsound magic.
Now I also have the aspect "The mob took my hand, I got it back in a bag." This implies that I might have an enemy, and because the mob doesn't do that kind of thing for no reason it definitely implies mob ties. I can invoke that for some connections in any area that might fall prey to corruption. If I'm the kind of guy who has mob ties then I likely have some criminal experience. Maybe I can invoke this for bonuses to deceit or burglary. Most importantly it states that I lost my hand. My body is not sound and that the first aspect can be compelled when the GM feels it should be important to the story.
Yes these aspects require context, however that's not hard to provide. I could probably condense that further and give it to the GM in a sentence or two. But most importantly they both tell a story about who I am, and they both contain so much great use, both positive and negative.
This is how I think personal aspects should be.
-
IoP seems simpler to me. Just remove the unbreakability and the loanability. For The Catch, you have to make something new.