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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: KassidyMoss on June 09, 2011, 10:39:46 PM

Title: Living in the nevernever
Post by: KassidyMoss on June 09, 2011, 10:39:46 PM
I have a question about the effects the nevernever would have on mortals over an extended period of time. Say there is a small pocket of mortals with wizards constitution. They have been exiled to an island in the nevernever for about 100 generations, without crossing through the way at any point.

After all this time living in the nevernever, would the mortals have been altered or evolved in any way do you think?
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: devonapple on June 09, 2011, 10:44:52 PM
We had a thread about this awhile back, but I'm having trouble finding it. May have been part of another thread. My apologies.

The Nevernever is a big place, with a variety of ecological possibilities and ambient energies. The simple answer is: maybe?
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: KassidyMoss on June 09, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
I guess it's more of a debate. I don't think they would be unrecognizable changed, but my boyfriend thinks that so much time in the nevernever would fundamentally change them so they're not really human.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: UmbraLux on June 09, 2011, 10:56:52 PM
Quote from: KassidyMoss on June 09, 2011, 10:39:46 PM
I have a question about the effects the nevernever would have on mortals over an extended period of time. Say there is a small pocket of mortals with wizards constitution. They have been exiled to an island in the nevernever for about 100 generations, without crossing through the way at any point.

After all this time living in the nevernever, would the mortals have been altered or evolved in any way do you think?
Realistic answer:  A hundred generations isn't long enough for significant genetic drift unless the population is small.  And then we're talking defects more often than not.

One story's answer:  Sure...where do you think sidhe came from?  :)

Another might be:  They all gain some affinity / ability with magic.

Use whatever fits your group's narrative.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Becq on June 09, 2011, 11:52:19 PM
What UmbraLux said, more or less.

Consider that 100 generations for normal mortals is about, what, 2000-2500 years?  In the last 2000 years, humanity has changed in only small ways.  We've gotten a bit taller, for example, and have gained immunities to some diseases.  But nothing that would make them physically 'unrecognizable'.  Their mindset would likely be extremely different, of course.

It's harder to say what would happen in your scenario, though.  What's 100 generations to a semi-immortal?  It could be as little as 2000 years, or it could be 100000 or more.  That sort of timescale brings the possibility that the isolated group might have come from a branch of humanity that has dies out in the mundane world.  Neanderthals, for example, *would* look markedly different.

And, of course, living in the Nevernever is also a wildcard.  I could easily see the possibility of significant 'genetic drift' over the course of a human's lifespan, let alone a hundred generations.

As a final variable, what effect would wizard's constitution have on such individuals?  If it has the effect of continually maintaining them in their original form (effectively fighting off any changes the Nevernever might try to impose), then this would tend to reduce the changes that occur over time.

Bottom line is *anything* could happen, and it could happen completely differently to two different isolated groups.  So as far as your debate is concerned, you're probably both right.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Haru on June 10, 2011, 12:04:10 AM
Here you go:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25813.0.html
this is the thread devonapple was talking about.

The main concern was, what would happen if mortals only ate food, that does not exist in the real world, so after a while, when they leave the nevernever, what happens to those ectoplasmic portions of their bodies. I for one think, this is how faeries came to be, mortals that lived in the nevernever and over time changed by the magic of the place and the food they ate and everything. Would explain their fascination with humans.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Blackblade on June 10, 2011, 12:19:32 AM
Two additional thoughts I had: Time in the nevernever is highly variable; in some places, the descendents of  a group that entered a few weeks ago may have created a small empire.  Additionally, living in the nevernever could speed up the natural mutation rate, which could lead to a faster genetic divergence from normal humans; it could also present radically different selection pressures.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Wolfwood2 on June 10, 2011, 06:36:22 PM
I'm actually disappointed.  I was hoping this would be a thread about wizards frustrated with the high prices of city housing who decide to just go ahead and live in the Nevernever.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: citadel97501 on June 10, 2011, 07:16:31 PM
Quote from: Wolfwood2 on June 10, 2011, 06:36:22 PM
I'm actually disappointed.  I was hoping this would be a thread about wizards frustrated with the high prices of city housing who decide to just go ahead and live in the Nevernever.

LOL, very funny and sadly true,
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Bruce Coulson on June 10, 2011, 08:10:33 PM
Now I have an image of Fae realtors sending spam mail to wizards..."Easy terms; low money down!"  "All loans approved; no one is turned away!"  "Be living in YOUR dream sanctum TODAY!"
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Haru on June 10, 2011, 08:14:53 PM
Quote from: Bruce Coulson on June 10, 2011, 08:10:33 PM
Now I have an image of Fae realtors sending spam mail to wizards..."Easy terms; low money down!"  "All loans approved; no one is turned away!"  "Be living in YOUR dream sanctum TODAY!"

I thought along the same line. And they thought the housing market was bad, then their house desolved into ectoplasm...
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: Bruce Coulson on June 10, 2011, 08:32:59 PM
Only if they fail to make their payments in a timely fashion...

And the fine print does allow the holder of the lien (the Fae banker) or any agents they may empower, access to the property at all times...

Of course, if you start to fall behind, loan officers will be happy to arrange for convenient other services in lieu of money that can pay your mortgage...
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: SunlessNick on June 10, 2011, 09:38:41 PM
Quote
Neanderthals, for example, *would* look markedly different.  -  Becq
Surprisingly little.  Or at least not so much that they'd look nonhuman as opposed to just odd.  But it would be interesting - maybe there's a "lost world" piece of Nevernever somewhere.
Title: Re: Living in the nevernever
Post by: JustADude on June 13, 2011, 03:57:48 AM
Quote from: Wolfwood2 on June 10, 2011, 06:36:22 PM
I'm actually disappointed.  I was hoping this would be a thread about wizards frustrated with the high prices of city housing who decide to just go ahead and live in the Nevernever.

It's called the 'Demesne' power, plus some way to get to the Nevernever. ;)