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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: hitokiri523 on May 29, 2011, 07:46:01 PM
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I am trying to get into the Dresden Files RPG but i will admit that this is my first time getting into a pen and paper style rpg. im used to gaming ones where a computer rolls the dice and things without me ever noticing. and some of the other aspects they put out throw me off as well.
what i was wondering was if there was someone out there will to help me create a weak little character and DM a little scenerio and help me understand how to play a character with this system and rules.
The two biggest problems are that i dont have either of the books with me and second of all im kinda in afghanistan < lol >
im a marine on a combat deployment but the area i am in is quiet and i am able to make it to the public computer room at least once a day for half an hour. < at least >
so any takers? please ;D < how can u say no to that face lol >
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I've never done a play by post, so I'm not sure I can really run a scenario for you, but I'd be happy to try and help you through the character creation part, as well as how to go about doing things during the game.
Do you have any particular questions or areas which don't seem to make sense?
-Cheers
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The one thread I always link to for this kind of questions:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,20530.0.html
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I can help with character creation. That's a big part of what I do here.
I recommend checking out the Play-by-Post forums if you're interested in an online game.
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i have looked in the play by post thing but all of those guys know what they are doing and i would just be screwing things up asking questions all the time.
as for what im having trouble with ugh.......
lets just say i need a Dresden Files RPG for dummies class lol
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yes i would love some help making a character. nothing too complicated id say wizard is a little above me right now. so maybe a vanilla mortal would be a good start.
i dont have any of my books though so i dont know where i need to start.
i have to say a dresden files rpg for dummies sounds good haha
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Heck, it could be a good thing for the resources thread. I see lots of these threads. I'm no master at this, but I can help out.
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everyone is better than me at this point so ill take any help i can get.
so how do we start?
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Stage one in the books is generating the city you will be playing in - which helps set the themes and atmosphere of the games, so I guess starting there might not be a bad thing.
What sort of stories do you like?
Are you an action type of guy, or a closet romantic?
You interested in saving the world or just trying to scrape together enough money to pay the rent? (Not that the two are mutually exclusive in Dresden)
Are there any bits of the books that you'd like to explore further - e.g. You feel the Alphas should get more 'screen time' and would like a game that revolved around weres
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Maybe we could get someone to run a PbP game for beginners. Not a full campaign, just a one-shot. Night Fears or Neutral Grounds might be good for that.
I started a player's guide a long time ago, but it still isn't done. If you'd like to see it, look here: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23188.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23188.0.html)
Now, about character creation:
The first thing you want to do is come up with a basic character concept. What sort of person do you want to play? What should they be good at, what powers do they have, what's their biggest problem, what sort of personality do they have, what motivates them, how do they interact with the world at large. There's a thread on the Resources board that you may want to check out, full of these questions. It's here: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23745.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23745.0.html)
PS: Have you read the books that the game is based on?
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everyone is better than me at this point so ill take any help i can get.
so how do we start?
You have a couple of choices. Going by the books it starts with city creation. If you want to just start with character creation, which might be a little simpler, to at least get some concepts going, that is an option too.
You have mentioned you don't have the books, but do you have access to the .pdf of the rules? If not, then much of this still might not make too much sense, since we would need to reference things in the rules which you couldn't read up on. Or as an alternate, do you have access to one of the other Fate-based rule systems like Spirit of the Century?
-Cheers
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yes i have read all the books.
as to the pdf no. we use public computers and if we try to download anything onto them the higher ups go crazy.
as for what im into. Ill go with horror action and mystery.
my chracter would defenately be the kill all monsters type.
defenately want to start with a vanilla mortal as a character type a gun specialist.
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yes i have read all the books.
as to the pdf no. we use public computers and if we try to download anything onto them the higher ups go crazy.
as for what im into. Ill go with horror action and mystery.
my chracter would defenately be the kill all monsters type.
defenately want to start with a vanilla mortal as a character type a gun specialist.
Ok so that gives us a good theme "A place of horror and mystery." and a threat "There be Monsters"
Plus your template as a true mortal.
Now what is the flavour of the character you want to play (High concept)
And what are the things that make their life a misery (Trouble aspect)
Then best bet might be to think about the background, rising conflict and 1st story parts of the character generation, and pick a couple of skills that he would have picked up at each stage - we can worry about the actual values later, let's just get a flavour of what he is good at.
Hopefully the mortal stunts will fall out of those as well so...
Background: how did he grow up. Who was around during his child hood, what influenced him?
Rising conflict: that teenage rebellious stage - how did he rebel, what trouble did it get him into, who did he annoy or what firm friends did he make?
First story: Usually the first time he encountered something supernatural, but you might want to save that if you want him to be 'the innocent abroad' victim in all this. So this sour be the first 'exciting' thing that happened to him that would be worthy of a flash back in the film to explain why the character behaves the way he does.
For each of these you the sum up the events or pick out a crucial moment to give the ASPECT from that time.
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hmm ok
Background: Jones Rosser. Born the son of a retired marine and a medicle transcriptionist. He grew up looking to his father. A hard worker man who worked his hands to the bone to support his wife and son. When he wasnt working he always had time for his son and because of this James grew up in an ideal environment that some kids dream of. Because of his fathers teachings he is a man of outstanding moral principles and a an unflinching beleif that if he works hard enough he will accomplish whatever he wants
Aspect: You have your ideas. But I have my Principles!
Rising Conflict: September 11th 2001. America was attacked and something woke up inside of Jones. How dare they! Those cowards attacking a building of civilians with a plane full of innocent people. He was at the marine recruiting office before the fires were put out on the building and at Paris island a week later. Basic training turned a kid into man. They taught him how to shoot, how to fight, never to give up and never to surrender. They turned a man into a weapon and aimed it towards the middle east.
Aspect: I am one of the Few and Proud.
First Story: It was a hot day in Nawa district, Afghanistan when a truck came speeding towards the base Jones was stationed at. Machine gun fire killed the driver and Jones watched as a small team went out to investigate the wreckage. He could only watch as they pulled a coffin off of the back of the truck and began pulling it towards base. As it got closer he could hear screams coming from it. The Taliban had sealed a man inside a coffin? Inside the base the box was pried open revealing a small skinny middle eastern man who has mumbling to himself and obviously disterbed. He was taken medicle and sedated until they could figure out what was wrong with him. Two hours later when Jones was sleeping after guard duty he heard the first scream. M16 in hand he ran towards the sounds of terror and as he neared the medicle tent he heard a new sound. Something was eating. He burst into the temt to find the middle eastern man dead on the floor chuncks of flesh inbetween his teeth and was paralyzed with fear as he saw several of the corpsman eating patients secured to hospital beds. One turned and saw Jones and ran at him screaming blood dripping from its mouth.. Training took over and Jones put two rounds in the cheast and one in the head of what he later refered to as zombies. After killing them Jones realizing what he had done Vomited and laid on the ground curled into a ball. The Government not wanting the scandle to get out Dishonorably discharged Rosser and sent him packing back to the states. Now he is a jobless man driving across the states with nothing but an old Pantiac Grandam with a 9mm and a two barrel breakopen shotgun hidden in the trunck. That and the truth that the things that hide under our beds are real. That there are things that go Bump in the night.
Aspect: I bump back!
< hows this ?>
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hmm ok
< hows this ?>
"By jove, I think he's got it" ;D
ok so which skills is he likely to have picked up.
I'm guessing Guns, weapons and fists are going to be fairly high, plus Endurance, Athletics, from his military training
Discipline and/ or conviction instilled by his upbringing.
What else do you see him doing?
I appreciate you can't down load something as large as the PDF but what about looking at things like the DFRPG resources website
http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/Stunts
- that would at least give you a chance to look at the skill/ stunt lists. (though those are the 'unofficial' lists, they will give you some good ideas.)
Now he is a jobless man driving across the states ...and the truth that the things that hide under our beds are real. That there are things that go Bump in the night.
A road trip campaign could be interesting.
So campaign Theme 2 - "Keep Moving."
Now assuming he is not going to be the only character - we could do with at least 2 others so you can do you guest star slots...
Hint to those of you on the thread -
Blackstaff523, this could be the DFRPG 101 you've been looking for...
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yah with him guns, fists, and i agree with endurance and athletics, discipline and conviction,
a little bit of driving since hes on a road trip and some investigative skills would help since he is trying to figure out what happen all that time ago and hes trying to find the weakness < or catch of every monster >
lore is gonna be low since he just knows for a fact that zombies are real.
ill look into the skills when i have some more free time. for him probably trick shot for one.
hmmm ok for guest star slots
hmmmmm
Guest Star #1 Damien Thomas
Background: The bastard son of a truck driver and a stripper. Raised on tv dinners and educated through Juvie and loopholes in the edgucation system to help poor kids still go to school. He worked as hard as a kid his age could just so he could feed himself when his mother was passed out drunk and his dad left them. Nothing but hand me down clothes and barely any time to play as a kid his age should. This past has made him a glass half empty type that beleives he has to fight and struggle to gain anything in his life
Aspect: Yah its a tough world so what?
Rising Conflict: Finally 18 and nothing but a sea bag full of clothes he stole fromgoodwill he set out on his own and was able to apprentice at a bailbond enforcement business. starting with nothing but paperwork and keeping the coffe hot living out of an apparment with more cockroaches than plumbing. He caught a break when one of the bountry hunters broke a leg and Damien jumped in to help having just barely gotten his license to enforce. He caught the man in an hour. He finally found something to make his own.
Aspect: I am a Hunter
First Story: The hunt that was going to get him to the big time a six figure paycheck and a tip to where the guy was staying. He was so pumped to get there he didnt see the light turn red and crashed into a 16 wheeler. In the hospital for a month he began worried for his eyesight. Because he started noticing that if he looked at people hard enough they started glowing different colors. Trying to figure what was going on he walked into the occult section of Barns and Noble and realized he could see auras. And if he concentrated hard enough he could look at auras from a persons personal object he could follow their aura. With this trick he has caught every bounty he has been sent after except for one guy that killed himself rather than going back to prison.,
Aspect: Cant hide from me
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The guest star isn't another character you make - you hand your PC to another player and he writes a story that includes the two of you doing something together.
Which is why the character creation process is community one. It's hard to make a PC without two or three other players.
Richard
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Guest star #2
Amanda Miller
Background: Raised by a mother who was an artist with several succesful paintings and a father who drew comics for DC she didnt struggle against pursuing creativity. Finger painting and macoroni art turned into scetching and paintings. Even a small study of famouse artists and a small adventure into photography. She quickly began to show great skill with an amazing eye for detail.
Aspect: I have an eye for detail what can i say
Rising Conflict: College was coming to a close and still she had no idea what to do with a bachelor degree in art. Even though it was her dream there werent too many jobs open with the economy in its present state. One of her friends who was now working at a police station and recomended to her that she would be perfect as a scetch artists for witnesses. She quickly began well known for ability. Producing several scetches that led to the arrest of several wanted fellons. she was even adding details to the sketches that the witnesses didnt even describe to her or didnt notice they fellon had.
Aspect: The pencil knows all
First Story: Her life changed when her police officer friend was attacked with a baseball bat and put in a coma. She spent days by her bedside waiting for her to wake up. It had been a week and still no sign of recovery. She kissed herfriends forhead and felt a jolt of electricity go through her and she immediately grabbed her scetch pad and worked at amazing pace scethching a face she had never seen before but she knew that it was the man that had attacked her friend. She turned it in to the police station as an anonymous tip and the man was caught in 24 hours. Ever since then she has been able to sketch pictures of fellons with an amazing amount of detail. even from witnesses that didnt get a clear look at the fellon, forgot details, or even repressed memories due to the horific nature of the crimes they witnessed.
Aspect: Let me see who did it
< so what do you think? >
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The guest star isn't another character you make - you hand your PC to another player and he writes a story that includes the two of you doing something together.
Which is why the character creation process is community one. It's hard to make a PC without two or three other players.
Richard
oh.......
well.......
shit.......
lol well now i know what that means and have two cool npc's .
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You could also use them as guest stars - if you're doing the entire character yourself as a learning exercise. That way you end up with three PCs
EG:
Jones Rosser - main character
Then a phase that includes Damien Thomas as Guest Star #1
Then a phase that includes Amanda Miller as Guest Star #2
Damien Thomas - main character
Then a phase that includes Amanda Miller as Guest Star #1
Then a phase that includes Jones Rosser as Guest Star #2
Amanda Miller - main character
Then a phase that includes Jones Rosser as Guest Star #1
Then a phase that includes Damien Thomas as Guest Star #2
That way you've built three characters... But if you were playing in a game it would two other players doing those phases for you and you doing the "Jones Rosser as Guest Star" phases for them.
Hoping that makes sense,
Richard
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I hope this isn't too presumptuous of me, but I would like to ask if I could get in on the whole "Tutoring" thing. I feel I have a fairly good grasp of the rules, but I just need some first hand experience.
That said Hito, feel free to use my character, Ryan, for one of your guest starring aspects. If this is okay with you I can stat him up right quick. What power level will we be playing at? (This is assuming it is alright for me to join up, if you have something else in mind, please ignore this post and let me just wish you luck! :) )
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Someone should post the madlib thingy* for creating the guest star narrative.
*Edit: Story Skeleton
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its fine with me for anyone to join up on this if they wanto to learn but Team8mum is kinda the teacher here so its up to him really.
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its fine with me for anyone to join up on this if they wanto to learn but Team8mum is kinda the teacher here so its up to him really.
Her. Mum. I'm a her.
And I'm not 'teaching' I'm just breaking down the process.
:)
I'm in no way an expert on this system- there are much better people round here for that. But I have spent a lot of my life helping people unlock ideas and discover thier own creativity.
JayTee can handle all that 'rulesy' stuff. :)
Given jones is pretty new at all this, how about we set the level at chest deep.
JayTee can you give us a Ryan at that level?
Any one interested in getting involved but who find coming up with a character hard could look at Amanda or Damian. Both of them are really nice ideas.
Mechanics wise - how would you handle those abilities?
I guess Amanda is some variant on psychometry but using 'people' as the objects and her craftsmanship to produce the images.
Aura reading? Some variant on sight? A supernatural sense?
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yes with the aura reading its basically the sight with him able to activate it and turn it off but it just doesnt give the depth that the true sight does. And he is able to stare at a personal object and find their aura and track them down with that. Supernatural creatures would have a weird aura that defenately sticks out against a normal aura.
And perfectly put with amanda. Its basically retro cognition that is activated through touch and she uses her drawing ability to show everyone else what she saw.
and sorry for calling you a he my bad.
and im alll up for more poeple joining in.
So whats next?
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and sorry for calling you a he my bad.
That's ok your far from the first.
:)
I was demoing at Con-quest and had my name down on the GM sign up sheet as Sue and Still got a "Wow a female GM" off a player arriving at the table.
Sadly we are still something of a novelty.
I am reliably informed there are more female players in the live action community but I'm bit too long in the tooth for all that running around in a field crap now. :)
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haha well it happens. maybe you just need to put female under your screen name. lol
so whats the next step?
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I am reliably informed there are more female players in the live action community but I'm bit too long in the tooth for all that running around in a field crap now. :)
We hold all of our LARPs indoors, and boffer weapons are not a component of the game.
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Give me a power level and I'll take a shot at statting these fellows.
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Apologies for my late reply, a few personal issues took up my attention. As an apology, I've built not one, not two, but THREE characters at Chest Deep level for this exercise.
Name: Ryan Green
Template: Pure Mortal
Hight Concept: Hunter of the Strange
Trouble: Supernatural Magnet
Aspects:
Old Military family;
Obfuscating Stupidity;
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser;
Prep and Skill Trump Magic;
Don't Mess with me and Mine.
Skills:
4: Fists, Guns, Weapons
3: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance
2: Discipline, Deceit, Lore
1: Presence, Conviction, Empathy
Stunts:
To be determined
Refresh: - 10
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Name: Ryan Green
Template: Champion of God
Hight Concept: The Practical Parishioner
Trouble: Don't be a dick, Lord
Aspects:
Obfuscating Stupidity;
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser;
A little Knowledge can be a dangerous thing;
Friends everywhere, Enemies everywhere else;
Risk makes things fun!
Skills:
4: Conviction, Guns, Weapons
3: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance
2: Discipline, Deceit, Lore
1: Presence, Contacts, Empathy
Stunts:
To be determined
Powers
Bless This House -1
Guide My Hand -1
Righteousness -2
Holy Touch -1
Refresh: - 3
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Ryan Green
Template: Thaumaturgist
Hight Concept: Practitioner on the Go
Trouble: Hot Warden chick wants my head
Aspects:
Obfuscating Stupidity;
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser;
A little Knowledge can be a dangerous thing;
The Laws Apply to Mortals only?
Don't Mess with me and Mine.
Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Conviction
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Weapons, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Resources
Stunts:
Small Arms Expert: Use Weapons instead of Guns for Pistols and (at GMs discretion) SMGs
Powers
Thaumaturgy - 3
Refresh: - 4
You May have noticed that other than a few details here and there the characters are more or less the same! This is because, quite frankly, they are. I've been Role Playing with Ryan for a good five years using collaborative writing and I have a fairly good grasp of his personality and thought process. The rest is just details! ;D
I've left a few things unfinished simply because I would like to know which character others would be interested in using before I slam down the final details. I am most interested in playing the Thaumaturgist simply because I like the concept of Thaumaturgy a lot. That said I've noticed that the common consensus is that Thaumaturgy tends to disrupt gameplay, so to mitigate that I'll likely put every point of Refinement into focus items to help smooth things along.
Questions? Comments? Disparaging remarks about my mother?
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Give me a power level and I'll take a shot at statting these fellows.
Chest deep.
:)
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Skills:
4: Fists, Guns, Weapons
3: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance
2: Discipline, Deceit, Lore
1: Presence, Conviction, Empathy
The problem with this build is that you've put almost all of your skill points into combat related stuff. When there is not combat going on, which we assume is most of the time, this guy would have to use fate points to do much of anything with his other skills.
Here's a sample different build, which gives you some abilities outside of combat:
Great: Fists, Guns, Deceit
Good: Alertness, Empathy, Endurance
Fair: Discipline, Athletics, Lore
Average: Presence, Conviction, Driving
Stunts:
Footwork
Armed Arts
These two stunts mostly remove the need for a high athletics and a high weapon skill. You lose the ability to use thrown weapons well, and you can't run as fast, but notice that the change allows you to raise up Deceit and Empathy, making you much more useful in social situations.
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Skills:
4: Conviction, Guns, Weapons
3: Alertness, Athletics, Endurance
2: Discipline, Deceit, Lore
1: Presence, Contacts, Empathy
Powers
Bless This House -1
Guide My Hand -1
Righteousness -2
Holy Touch -1
I'd think about dropping the guns skill from this build, and spending a stunt to use weapons in place of athletics for defense. This would free up your skills slots.
So something like:
Great: Conviction, Deceit, Weapons
Good: Alertness, Empathy, Endurance
Fair: Discipline, Athletics, Lore
Average: Presence, Contacts, ??
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Conviction
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Weapons, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Resources
You don't need as much conviction if you are only going to do thaumaturgy. Full wizards can sort of get away with having all their top skills taken up by the 'wizard skills' because the evocation/thaumaturgy package is a very potent tool set by itself. A wizard can almost always come up with something to do outside of combat.
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As for thaumaturgy disrupting gameplay, there are two potential reasons for that.
1
The rules for thuamaturgy aren't very well defined, so anytime you want to do something, you have to stop the game and have a (long) discussion with the GM.
You can try these (http://dresden-sanfran.wikidot.com/sample-thaumaturgy) rules for thaumaturgy prep to reduce the GM discussion time.
2
Thaumaturgy is a very versatile tool, which means that clever players will always be trying to use it to just to the 'end of the mystery' or whatever.
When running the game, try to make sure that using thaumaturgy to solve a problem is (almost always) the 2nd or third best solution, and should almost never actually be able to solve the problem outright.
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glad to see we have lots of people jouining this topic.
so mum whats next for me?
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We hold all of our LARPs indoors, and boffer weapons are not a component of the game.
Ah sanity - have you also solved the the inter-player becomes inter-character and visa versa conflict issue.?
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glad to see we have lots of people jouining this topic.
so mum whats next for me?
Chest deep gives 30 points for skills, with Dresden you have to build in a pyramid so you can't have a lot of high level skills and few low levels.
To make it easier in the rule book there are a few example skill trees
For chest deep these role in at:
5 good, 5 fair, 5 average (15 skills in all - and a bit of a jack of all trades)
2 great, 3 good, 4 fair, 5 average (14 skills)
3 great, 3 good, 3 fair, 3 average (12 skills)
2 superb, 2 great, 2 good, 2 fair, 2 average (only 10 skills but 2 areas he is brilliant at)
So decide what sort of person he is- is he focused on one area that he is expert in, or is he more likely to be a generalist
(option 2- which is the same idea but from the other side - List the skills you think he would have and count them up. If it's only a few then he can afford to be very good at the key ones, if it is a lot the your probably looking at the 5 good line)
Skills in DFRPG are:
Alertness, Athletics, Burglary, Contacts, Conviction, Craftsmanship, Deceit, Discipline, Driving
Empathy, Endurance, Fists, Guns, Intimidation, Investigation, Lore, Might, Performance
Presence, Rapport, Resources, Scholarship, Stealth, Survival, Weapons
Now just to complicate matters, as Crusher_bob has been pointing out. Some times there are stunts that let you use one skill in the place of another, so the skills you actually need might not be as you expect.
So you might want your guy to be good with his fists and a knife. Normally you would expect to take Weapons and Fists. But you could just take fists and the stunt Armed Arts and select knife as one of the weapon you have trained with. Then you use your Fists to attack with knives.
Similarly Rule with Fear means you are so 'scary' you can use intimidation in stead of presence (of course people might not like you very much, but they will do what you say)
As stunts are only 'a set of guide lines' this meant in FATE you can pretty much use ANY skill for ANY other skill as long as you can blagg it in the description of the stunt you create and give a set of circumstances where it seems reasonable to the GM. :) - some are just more obvious than others.
Other style of stunts give bonus to a skill in a set of circumstances e.g. Hunter giving a bonus to survivial for when tracking
Or they make things happen quicker or effects last longer (e.g.safecracker reducing the lock pick time for burglary or jury rigger meaning improvised stuff made with craftsmanship doesn't fall apart so quickly)
So assuming you want to keep some refresh back to give you fate in the game (and recalling 0 refresh means you are an NPC and events in the game can inflict changes on you) you probably 5 or 6 stunts to come up with.
Go play - be inventive. Then Jaytee and crusher-bob can help you short out the power levels and make sure the things you have come up with are not over or under powered for the game mechanics.
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decided to go for the 15 skills since hes just an infantry grunt going on a road trip hes no special forces van hellsing so a jack of all trades thats been turned from fighting terrorists to monsters seems to fit
Good:Guns, Driving, Discipline, Alertness, Endurance
Fair: Fists, Survival, Weapons, Athletics, Deceit
Average: Lore, craftsmanship, intimidation, might, scolarship
these made sense to me. lore being one of his weakest skills since basically when it comes to his experience its basically " well in my supernatural experience it is defenately not a zombie" Guns, discipline, alertness, and endurance because of the grunt life. driving because his pontiac is his most prized possession now that hes on the road. Fists are a fair skill because of marine corps as well as survival weapons and athletics. Deceit just because he is on a road trip and has to do what he has to to survive.
Craftsmanship because the marine corps gets secondhand equipment most of the time and e have to learn to adapt, scholarship too because he knows he has just found the tip of the supernatural iceburg and needs to learn more, intimidation and might because again hes a marine and nows how to throw his weight around.
skills hmm. ill go with five since like i said he isnt a crazy special forces monster basher
1) Hail to the Pontiac < helps with anything that involves his car or a similar model, from driving to repair
2) squeeze the trigger dont pull < hes a good shot >
3) Survival Guilt < he feels a bit of remorse for living when some other people died in afghanistan so in situations where people are dying he feels a need to fight
4) So how do i kill it? < he has an eye for detail in figureing out how to kill supernatural monsters >
5) Adapt and overcome < he is quick to use whats at hand in out of the box ways to overcome a situation >
So how is this?
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The problem with this build is that you've put almost all of your skill points into combat related stuff.
This was my intention, Hitokiri mentioned he was looking for an Action/Horror game, I built my stats accordingly as I'm basically just tagging along. xD
That said, your builds are much better and more flexible, I will likely be using them once I get a steady GM, thank you!
The rules for thuamaturgy aren't very well defined, so anytime you want to do something, you have to stop the game and have a (long) discussion with the GM.
This strikes me as odd, as from what I can tell Thaumaturgy seems to be nothing more (system wise) than a glorified Simple Action, Assessment, Block, Maneuver, Declaration, or Skill vs Skill roll with a few extra factors (such as Thresholds, Durations and Ritualwork. Is this just my lack of experience talking?
Thaumaturgy is a very versatile tool, which means that clever players will always be trying to use it to just to the 'end of the mystery' or whatever.
When running the game, try to make sure that using thaumaturgy to solve a problem is (almost always) the 2nd or third best solution, and should almost never actually be able to solve the problem outright.
I agree with this completely, I tend to view it as a support or fallback option rather than a means to an end.
EDIT: One other thing, can I get some feedback on my Aspects? I tired to make them either as neutral (so they could be invoked/compelled with equal ease) or as interesting as possible, comments?
EDIT 2: One other other thing, I am assuming this will play out like a standard game. That said, who will be running it, and what can I do to help? :)
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Good:Guns, Driving, Discipline, Alertness, Endurance
Fair: Fists, Survival, Weapons, Athletics, Deceit
Average: Lore, craftsmanship, intimidation, might, scolarship
1
System wise, the skills you can count on are those that you have at good (+3) or better. Any other skills you will generally need to invoke an aspect to get some use out of them. For a pure mortal, who has a lot of refresh sitting around, you are perfectly capable of invoking for a few skill rolls each game session. But if you use up a lot of refresh on stunts, this may not be possible.
2.
Note that this build has a very low base physical defense (athletics are only +2), and since you don't have any toughness powers, you can very easily be hurt.
It can help to list out your 'combat' abilities, to make sure your character doesn't have any gaping mechanical holes.
Physical:
Initiative: +3 (Alertness)
Defense: +2 (Athletics)
Best Attacks: Targeting 3, weapon 2 (pistols); targeting 3, weapon 3 (hand cannons or rifles)
Social:
Initiative: +0 (Empathy)
Defense: +2 (Deceit) or +3 (Discipline)
Best Attack: +2 (Deceit) or +1 (Intimidation)
Mental (Defense) +3 (Discipline)
Stress:
Physical: OOOO
Mental: OO
Social: OO
------------------------
Now, let's take a look at an alternate build:
4: Athletics, Deceit, Guns
3: Alertness, Discipline, Endurance
2: Driving, Survival, Weapons
1: Conviction, Lore, Presence
You lose the following skills:
2: Fists
1: Craftsmanship, Intimidation, Might, Scholarship
And gain:
1: Conviction, Presence
And your 'conflict stats' looks like:
Physical:
Initiative: +3 (Alertness)
Defense: +4 (Athletics)
Best Attacks: Targeting 4, weapon 2 (pistols); targeting 4, weapon 3 (hand-cannons or rifles)
Social:
Initiative: +0 (Empathy)
Defense: +4 (Deceit) or +3 (Discipline)
Best Attack: +4 (Deceit)
Mental (Defense) +3 (Discipline)
Stress:
Physical: OOOO
Mental: OOO
Social: OOO
--------------------
Now, personally, I'm still not that happy with the build because your best (and only) social skills is deceit. All your ability to interact with other people is based on lying or concealing the truth form them. If you ever wanted to have a truthful conversation with someone, you'd not have a real idea of what to do.
Of course, you can always just give up in the social arena, and concentrate on some other non-combat area.
For example:
4: Athletics, Investigation, Guns
3: Alertness, Discipline, Stealth
2: Burglary, Driving, Weapons
1: Conviction, Lore, Survival
And taking a stunt 'Mind Over Body' that lets you use discipline to determine your physical stress track, whould let you be 'the sneaky' guy, in addition to being the gun guy.
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Remember at this refresh level, your likely other party members are things like young wizards, white court vampires, and various shapechangers. You'll need to be able to have your own area of expertise in a party at that power level.
And you'll be facing stuff like:
Malk:
Initiative: +7
Defense: +4
Best Attack: Targeting 3, weapon 2 (Claws)
Stress: OO(OO) Armor: 1 (catch: iron)
Zombie (assuming it has inhuman speed):
Initiative: +7
Defense: +4
Best Attacks: Targeting 3, weapon 2 (Fists)
Stress: OOO(OO) Armor: 1 (no catch)
Ghoul:
Initiative: +7
Defense: +5
Best Attacks: Targeting 4, weapon 4 (Claws)
Stress: OOOO
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One other thing, can I get some feedback on my Aspects? I tired to make them either as neutral (so they could be invoked/compelled with equal ease) or as interesting as possible, comments?
I like these two-
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser;
A little Knowledge can be a dangerous thing;
both give me a good idea of what is going on I the characters head
Obfuscating Stupidity;
I'd like to see the story fragment that this one comes from to get my head around what you mean by it, because I can see a number of ways it could pan out.
With the others being depending on the specific of the character it's harder to see what is going on. We could do with deciding which flavour of character to use, and then the background, rising conflict and first story so hitokiri can do his guess star (and you can see how you'd fit into his first story)
EDIT 2: One other other thing, I am assuming this will play out like a standard game. That said, who will be running it, and what can I do to help? :)
When I do a PBeM I prefer to write longer segments than you would get sat around a gaming table- mainly because unless you are all on line at the same time it all goes very slow as you wait for people to respond. As a result it all gets very rules light, which makes it a bit useless as a tutor session.
Also being in the UK chances are I'm not going to be one line at the same time as every one else.
So all in all I'm not really suitable. Sorry.
(Plus I'm running 3 PBeMs ATM and working full time so I cant really promise I'll be available for any more than the odd evening)
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hmmm ok bob i get where you are going with this.
but i think since this is my first game i will stick with the stuff i picked.
you did bring up the fact that i can get hurt easily so i will take your advice.
i am gonna get rid of survival gui;lt and replace it with Mind over Body which sounds very good to me,
thank you for the advice bob. :)
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The 'mind over body' stunt on the sneaky guy build was only necessary because I dropped the endurance skill to make way for more sneaky guy skills. It's the endurance skill that normally determines how many boxes of physical stress you have (while presence does social stress, and conviction does mental stress).
It works like this:
Endurance: 0, stress: OO
Endurance: 1-2, stress: OOO
Endurance: 3-4, stress: OOOO
Endurance: 5, stress: OOOO + 1 extra minor consequence
All the human builds, like reglar mortals and wizards, have to worry about defenses because they hurt relatively easily and don't have any real way to heal quickly.
Examples:
Our characters are being hit by a ghoul, ho exceeds our defense roll by 3. So we are looking at a 7 stress hit.
If you are just a regular mortal with stress: OOO, you'd take a moderate consequence (-4 stress) and then a 3 stress hit, and you'd have that consequence for the rest of the adventure.
Next, compare that to a white court vampire, with inhuman recovery.
They take a moderate consequence too, but as they recover faster, the consequence will be gone by the end of the next scene.
Lastly, compare to a shapeshifter with both inhuman toughness and inhuman recovery.
Their stress meter looks like OOO(OO) armor: 1. Their natural amor reduces the 7 stress hit to a 6 stress hit. They take minor consequence (-2) and soak up the remaining 4 stress. And if they really want to, they can remove that minor consequence in the next combat exchange.
Carrying around consequences during the game is somewhat 'dangerous' because it means you might have to take a big consequence from even small hit. If your minor and moderate consequences are filled, the next hit is going to break some bones, or something because you won't be able to reduce the stress with any smaller consequences.
-------------
Next step is to look at your aspects, and come up with two or three ways to invoke or compel each one, except for your trouble, which can only be compelled. This will make things easier for both you and the GM during the game, in that each of you will already have some idea about what the aspect can be used for.
------------
Next thing to do is, once the other players start getting their characters put together, is to make sure that the characters don't overlap too much. No characters should completely eclipse the others. Shapeshifters can be real skill monkeys if put together in a certain way, and it's possible for combat focused wizards to completely overshadow any other sort of combat character. Even two mortal characters can have a lot of skill overlap.
--------------
Example:
A shapeshifter build could look like this:
Powers
-1 Beast Change
-1 Echoes of the Beast
-2 Inhuman Recovery
+1 Human form, covering:
-1 Claws
-2 Inhuman Strength
-2 Inhuman Speed
-2 Inhuman Toughness
+3 the catch: silver (+2 common, +1 researchable)
(-7 refresh total)
Skills:
Human Form:
4: Empathy, Investigation, Rapport
3: Athletics, Discipline, Presence
2: Endurance, Fists, Lore
1: Alertness, Conviction, Stealth
Animal Form:
4: Athletics, Fists, Investigation
3: Alertness, Discipline, Endurance
2: Empathy, Presence, Stealth
1: Conviction, Lore, Rapport
Notice how this build covers fighting, talking, and investigation all reasonably well. If the other (we'll assume 3) characters have Contacts/Resources, Scholarship/Craftsmanship, and Wizard skills as their main shticks, it doesn't matter much. But it's also totally possible for this shapeshifter build to stomp all over the other players characters too. I don't know until they've been brought to the table. And then, there may need to be some negotiation.
--------------
And a combat focused wizard may show up with something like targeting 6, weapon 6 attacks and power 6 blocks with armor 3 for backup. And anything that could be a threat to him would totally flatten the other characters. And there would need to be some negotiation, again.
-------------
So, don't fall so in love with your character concept that you would be willing to make the game less fun for the other players by sticking to your character exactly as originally defined.
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Looks like I'm not needed here. Which is actually a good thing, since I don't think I'd handle this as well as it is being handled.
Anyway...
I noticed that Mindflayer94 is starting up a Neutral Grounds game on the PbP forums. I'm sending him a PM to see if he'd be interested in running it as a tutorial of sorts for newbies.
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Obfuscating Stupidity;
I'd like to see the story fragment that this one comes from to get my head around what you mean by it, because I can see a number of ways it could pan out.
I'll be completely honest, when writing them up I didn't fill in a story for each aspect, partially because when i tired i found I sucked at it and partially because I tend to use a kind of "Jigsaw puzzle" approach to character building. Meaning I have different names, histories, personalities and abilities that I like for characters, so i mix and match them whenever I need to make a new one.
That said, I'll break down each Aspect you mentioned so there is a better understanding of it.
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser
The character is clever when adapting and improvising, but any time he is either engaged in a formal plan or simply thinking one out things go bad. Compelled to fail actions related to plans, "forget" to bring the proper equipment or just not think something through properly. Invoked for things that have been given no forethought or using minimal resources and materials.
A little Knowledge can be a dangerous thing
The character is nosey, and just likes knowing things in general. Not everyone likes the fact that he's always sticking his nose into their affairs, so this comes back to bite him. Compelled to have someone try to "silence" him, to try and overhear something that'll get him in trouble somehow or maybe even violate the Seventh Law by failing to resist temptation to read a particularly nasty looking occult book. Invoked to recall information about someone/thing, have a prior understanding about something or perform better on knowledge-based skill rolls (could also be used like Exposition and Knowledge dumping related to mystical stuff)
Obfuscating Stupidity.
The character, while being clever, does not like people KNOWING he is clever and will feign ignorance/incompetence at times. Compelled to fail a roll, have someone not take him seriously (who would believe an idiot?), deliberately disrupt something and making it look like an accident. Invoked for critical situations when failure is not an option.
Hope this helps!
I noticed that Mindflayer94 is starting up a Neutral Grounds game on the PbP forums. I'm sending him a PM to see if he'd be interested in running it as a tutorial of sorts for newbies.
I would love to join in if he's willing, thank you Sanctaphrax.
EDIT: Hitokiri, I would strongly suggest you take Crusher_bob's advice, skill ranks 1-2 suggest someone who only has some training (for example, someone who has gone to the gun range a few times would have such a skill rank in Guns). Skills at 3-4 imply someone who is well versed in that skill. (for example, someone who has been formally trained by a military organization such as the US Marines would have Guns at that level)
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Obfuscating Stupidity.
The character, while being clever, does not like people KNOWING he is clever and will feign ignorance/incompetence at times. Compelled to fail a roll, have someone not take him seriously (who would believe an idiot?), deliberately disrupt something and making it look like an accident. Invoked for critical situations when failure is not an option.
Hope this helps!
Ahhh. Like Columbo....
Got it thanks :)
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EDIT: Hitokiri, I would strongly suggest you take Crusher_bob's advice, skill ranks 1-2 suggest someone who only has some training (for example, someone who has gone to the gun range a few times would have such a skill rank in Guns). Skills at 3-4 imply someone who is well versed in that skill. (for example, someone who has been formally trained by a military organization such as the US Marines would have Guns at that level)
I think you are short selling low skill levels a bit too much. At skill level 2, you are capable of doing whatever it is, but you just aren't good enough at it to do it well under pressure.
Skill level 4 and 5 are for scary skilled people.
Michael has lived (or, if you prefer, not died) by the sword for around 20 years, and he was weapons 5.
Murphy, by the later books, is very good at both guns and kung-fu, and she has both of those skills at 4 or 5.
People at these skill levels are rare, and possibly a bit nuts. Most regular people probably top out at +3.
That's one of the reasons I don't like the write up of Molly in OW. She's written up as discipline +4 fer cryin out loud. And she's presented in the books as having problems maintaining her self control! So if you go by that metric, your character, who you imagine can coolly do the whole put your hand into the box thing has gotta have, like, discipline +7 or something, right?
Of course, the villain write-up are also pretty bad, but there's the unspoken understanding that 1 villain is supposed to be a challenge for the party, so they have to cover a lot of skills that would normally be covered by other people.
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I think you are short selling low skill levels a bit too much. At skill level 2, you are capable of doing whatever it is, but you just aren't good enough at it to do it well under pressure.
Fair enough, thanks for pointing this out to me.
Ahhh. Like Columbo....
Got it thanks :)
Not a problem, glad it helped. :)
Also, here is a modified skillset of the Thaumaturgist based on Crusher_Bobs suggestions, how is this?
Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Weapons
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Rapport.
I've swapped around Conviction around with Weapons per Bob's advice on lowering it, but I feel it might be too low. I've also exchanged Resources for Rapport because why would a "Practitioner on the go" have high resources? xD
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sorry ive been gone. work stuff poped up.
ok so two quick questions before i fix my character up a little.
will somneone please explain refresher points to me please i dont get it like how do you decide how many you get and what do they do?
Also will someone please explain to me how the skills you pick determine your health mental and social hit points
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will somneone please explain refresher points to me please i dont get it like how do you decide how many you get and what do they do?
Also will someone please explain to me how the skills you pick determine your health mental and social hit points
Refresh is the general power level of the game. It's typically decided by the group prior to starting play. Refresh limits the number of stunts & powers you can purchase. Whatever refresh you have left after powers & stunts is the number of fate points you begin play with - must be a minimum of 1 for PCs.
Stress is based on three skills: Physical - Endurance; Mental - Conviction; Social - Presence. You get a number of stress boxes based on the skill level.- +0 = 2
- +1 to +2 = 3
- +3 to +4 = 4
- +5 = 4 plus extra mild consequence
- more = extra mild consequence per +2
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In addition, if your character doesn't have any powers (only stunts) then they get a +2 bonus refresh, sometimes called the "pure mortal bonus". Note that powers give more utility per point of refresh than stunts do. Every power point generally gives you around 1.5 to 2 stunt equivalents.
--------------
If you haven't noticed already, stress works slightly different from damage mechanics in other games. When you take stress, you only mark off one box of stress, and not that box and all the boxes under that box.
Example:
Our stress meter looks like:
OOOO
We take a stress 3 hit, and now our stress meter looks like:
OOXO
We then take a 2 stress hit:
OXXO
Then, another 3 stress hit. As our 3rd stress box is already full, it 'roll up' to our 4th stress box:
OXXX
---------------
Note that the rules of the game, as written, tie refresh total and skill total together. But depending on the game you want to play, it's also possible to use separate skill and refresh totals to fine tune the kind of characters you want in the game. Here's (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17912.0.html) my sample characters with high refresh (10), but low skills (25)
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Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Weapons
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Rapport.
I've swapped around Conviction around with Weapons per Bob's advice on lowering it, but I feel it might be too low. I've also exchanged Resources for Rapport because why would a "Practitioner on the go" have high resources? xD
You have full thaumaturgy, so you'll almost always have an option for something to do outside of combat. Also, remember that the stuff that appears on your character sheet is not 'exactly' the stuff you have/can do, but rather, how well you solve problems with them. So, you don't really need a resources score to not live in a cardboard box. But not having 'resources' on your character sheet means that you have a really hard time solving your problems with money.
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So, here is the (hopefully) full, final version of Ryan the Thaumaturgist. Feel free to rip it apart and dissect every single thing that is wrong with it, I'm looking for some scrutiny heavy feedback here!
Name: Ryan Green
Template: Thaumaturgist
Hight Concept: Practitioner on the Go
Trouble: Warden ex-girlfriend
Aspects:
Obfuscating Stupidity;
Terrible Planner, Fantastic Improviser;
A little Knowledge can be a dangerous thing;
Grey Magic for Fun and Profit;
Don't Mess with me and Mine.
Skills:
4: Discipline, Lore, Weapons
3: Athletics, Alertness, Endurance
2: Deceit, Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Fists, Rapport
Stunts:
Small Arms Expert: Use Weapons instead of Guns for Pistols
Powers:
Thaumaturgy - 3
Synchromancy (Complexity +1)
Pocket Watch, Synchromancy Focus Item (Complexity +1, Control +1)
2 unused potion slots
Refinement - 3
Wards (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Crafting (Frequency +1, Strength +1)
Divination (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Transformation and Disruption (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Refresh: - 7
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Powers:
Thaumaturgy - 3
Synchromancy (Complexity +1)
Pocket Watch, Synchromancy Focus Item (Complexity +1, Control +1)
2 unused potion slots
You have one too many focus item slots listed here (3, instead of 2), assuming this is supposed to represent your 'base' focus item slots gaind from just thaumaturgy.
Refinement - 3
Wards (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Crafting (Frequency +1, Strength +1)
Divination (Complexity +1, Control +1)
Transformation and Disruption (Complexity +1, Control +1)
1
By the letter of the rules, people without the whole wizard package can't take refinement for more specializations. They can, however, take refinement for more focus/enchanted item slots.
2
You have too many bonuses (8) for three points of refinement (should be 6).
---------------------
You've spent a lot of refresh for control bonuses that raise your effective discipline to 5, you've also spent a lot of points for an effective lore of 5. Consider the following build instead:
skills
5: Discipline, Lore
4: Alertness, Weapons
3: Athletics, Deceit
2: Conviction, Empathy
1: Presence, Rapport
stunts
Small Arms Expert: Use Weapons instead of Guns for Pistols
Mind over body Use Discipline to determine physical stress
Tireless (YS 152)
Powers:
Thaumaturgy - 3
Synchromancy (Complexity +1)
3 potion slots
Defensive item, power 4, 2 uses/session (1 slot)
-6 refresh
Stress:
Physical: OOOO + 1 extra mild consequence
Social: OOO
Mental: OOO
--------------
By shifting your skills around to get discipline 5 and lore 5, you 'save' all the points of refresh you would have used to get +1 control and +1 complexity. The shortened skill list means 2 skills have to be dropped outright, I picked fists, which you only had at 1, and endurance, which you had at 3. But the save points of refresh lets you pickup the mind over body and tireless stunts, which should make up for it.
The only thing you give up, magic wise over the old build is +1 crafting frequency. But if you want it, you have another point of refresh available to get it back.
Also, I've added a defensive item, both to protect you from low rolls and ambushes and to act as armor to to help soak up large hits.
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You have one too many focus item slots listed here (3, instead of 2), assuming this is supposed to represent your 'base' focus item slots gaind from just thaumaturgy.
My error, everything under Thaumaturgy is indeed the "free" stuff you get for taking it. My brain saw "Focus Item" (Pocket Watch) and read it as "Refinement" for some odd reason. Thank you for pointing it out.
1
By the letter of the rules, people without the whole wizard package can't take refinement for more specializations. They can, however, take refinement for more focus/enchanted item slots.
Wait what? Where are you getting this? I double checked but I couldn't find any mention of "Wizards only" for refinement. The closest thing I could find was the Options part of Thaumaturgy that says "Options: Casters whose template allows for it should consider the Refinement ability (Page 182)". Considering how the template is flat out "Thaumaturgist" I would think that it would be allowed.
2
You have too many bonuses (8) for three points of refinement (should be 6).
You are completely right, I have no idea how Transformation and Disruption got in there.
(A bunch of stuff about my skills and refresh)
I keep forgetting how bloody useful Stunts are, and that you can indeed get a Superb Skill rating at Chest Deep. I'll go over it again and come up with a more efficient.
EDIT: Speaking of Stunts and their usefulness, I am considering dropping Rapport and taking a Stunt to use Alertness for it instead, something like Social Cues That lets him pick up on body language and tone of voice for that kind of thing. If I gave it a -1 penalty for characters who are not within his line of sight and a - 1 penalty for dealing with more than one person, would it be reasonable to transplant the trappings of Rapport over to Alertness entirely?
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Wait what? Where are you getting this? I double checked but I couldn't find any mention of "Wizards only" for refinement. The closest thing I could find was the Options part of Thaumaturgy that says "Options: Casters whose template allows for it should consider the Refinement ability (Page 182)". Considering how the template is flat out "Thaumaturgist" I would think that it would be allowed.
YS 181: the Channelling rules say:
"Item Slots...You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose. All items created for those slots must be in keeping with the elemental theme you’ve chosen for your power."
YS 182. The Rituals rules say:
"Item Slots....You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose. All items created for those slots must be in keeping with the single application you’ve chosen for your power."
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oops fail...
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Yes, I know it says that for CHANNELING and RUTUAL you can only take refinements for items and such, but where does it say that for THAUMATURGY?
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I've been watching this thread for a few days hoping someone more experienced would jump in to help Hitokiri out first, but now that it looks to bew happening Idecided to jump in and help out with a character of my own Plus it seemed like a good way to get myself more familiar with a system I've been itching to learn better.
Name: Olaf Gustafson
Template: Were Form
High Concept: were-thief
Trouble: Living a "normal" life is hard work when you aren't.
Background: Olaf lived a perfectly ordinary childhood all up and down the east coast(US), growing up into your perfectly average computer geek.
Rising Conflict: Things continued towards mediocrity for olaf until one night he "rolled a 1 in the cosmic game of life" in his words and won a cerebral hemmorage taking out his control over the left side of his body as a consolation prize.
Aspect: Lived there, seen that.
Rising Conflict:His future prospects were grim for a while, but he pulled through with his spirits in tact after a few years relearning how to do mundane things like walk and anything that takes two arms, but teaching your brain to use a body it's forgotten how to use isn't an easy task, doing so poked and prodded something loose and gave him the chance to do it a second time in a whole new body.Although odd for him at first, friends quickly decided olaf worked too much and should start a business training service animals... Because hell, he's got the coolest freaking "dog" able to both let them in the front door and sorta play video games with them. Nobody let themselves notice said "dog" was a bit too wolfish or smart for just being a dog... nobody lets themselves notice anything from the spooky side of things if they can help it, they'd rather buy a hotdog for that cute doggy doing tricks for anyone pausing to look in front of home depot
Aspect: Service animal?... What service animal?
First Story: It turns out that four legs are pretty quick, and service animals can go a lot of places just by following the right sorts of humans through the right doors. That little blue vest saying "I'm working, please don't or distract me" does a great job of keeping the less oblivious out of the doggy pack with a fresh set of clothes in a ziplock. It was decent money given his particular talents; Besides, nobody thinks of that cute waggy tailed "doggy" shouldersurfing them when it's time to type their password. All in all he did rather well for himself working as someone who could "find" exacly what the client says needed "finding", clients appreciate that a potential crook is never seen visiting them when he sends his "dog" to deliver the goods at the drop.
Aspect: four legged social engineering thief.
human form skill config ()'s denote a skill shuffling in wolf form
Performance :1
Alertness :2
Athletics :3
Scholarship(fists) :4
Conviction :1
Discipline :2
Deceit(survival) :3
Burglary :4
Presence :1
Investigation :2
Endurance :3
Empathy :1
Rapport :1
Resources(stealth) :2
P Stress: 4
M Stress: 3
S Stress: 3
Beast Change [–1]
ŠŠEchoes of the Beast(Wolf) [–1]
Inhuman Recovery( [–2]
|-Catch: Silver heals normally [+2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
|-Catch: Silver applies normally [+2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Claws [–1]
Pack Instincts [–1]
Human Form [+1]
|-- Regular Joe[Inhuman speed/strength, claws, pack instincts]
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The formatting hurts my eyes.
Please use in 'sorted by skill level' formatting, rather than the 'alpha by skill' formatting.
Like this:
Skills
Human Form:
4: Burglary, Scholarship
3: Athletics, Deceit, Endurance
2: Alertness, Discipline, Investigation, Resources
1: Conviction, Empathy, Performance, Presence, Rapport
Beast Form
4: Burglary, Fists
3: Athletics, Endurance, Survival
2: Alertness, Discipline, Investigation, Stealth
1: Conviction, Empathy, Performance, Presence, Rapport
Powers
Beast Change [–1]
Echoes of the Beast(Wolf) [–1]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
Human Form [+1] Covering:
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
The Catch: Silver [+3] (Common +2, Research +1)
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Claws [–1]
Pack Instincts [–1]
-8 Refresh Total
Also looks like you have one too many points in powers.
You can't 'zero out' the cost of toughness powers (and both toughness and recovery count as 'toughness powers' and the cost is added together when computing cost after the catch) with a catch, the powers always cost a minimum of one point. And, in any event, a catch of 'silver' is only worth three points, not four.
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If I understand correctly, the human form is supposed to have left side paralysis, while the wolf form doesn't? Or did learning to turn into a wolf (eventually) cure the paralysis?
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EDIT: Speaking of Stunts and their usefulness, I am considering dropping Rapport and taking a Stunt to use Alertness for it instead, something like Social Cues That lets him pick up on body language and tone of voice for that kind of thing. If I gave it a -1 penalty for characters who are not within his line of sight and a - 1 penalty for dealing with more than one person, would it be reasonable to transplant the trappings of Rapport over to Alertness entirely?
Stunts normally let you only switch out one 'trapping' of the skill.
So, the trappings of Rapport are technically:
Chit-Chat, Closing Down, First Impressions, Opening Up, Social Defense
Though it's much more appropriate to substitute Awareness for empathy trappings, rather than rapport trappings, imho. Most notably the 'reading people' of 'social defense (vs Deceit)' trappings.
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The thing with specialization/refinement is a holdover from when character templates were taken a bit more seriously. But it's still kept around to make rushing to certain heights of magical power more difficult.
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Or did learning to turn into a wolf (eventually) cure the paralysis?
that was the idea yea It was more learning to use the left side again shook loose the were form & brought it to the surface where it was usable, sort of justifyng were over hexenwolf and explaining the whole learning to use a new body is hard bit tht hexenwolves offload. with regards to the dual catch, I wasn't certain if they stacked or not but the way it was written in the toughness/recovery skills seemed to indicate that each one took a catch and the catch applied to that one instead of a single overall catch, I figured if I was wrong it would get explained quick and better now than when I have a player trying to push the idea on me. Also while looking over the guest star bit now that I'm getting more familiar with the system I'm thinking/feeling like maybe my first story was a bit too complete
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Upon reflection of a few things, I've decided to use Bob's Build for this game (assuming we'll be having one). I also would like to thank Bob again for all the time and energy he's put into this.
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reworked/formatted Olaf skills and abilities based on feedback.
human form skill config ()'s denote a skill shuffling in wolf form
1: Performance, Conviction, Presence, Empathy, Rapport
2:zresources, Contacts, Alertness, Discipline, Contacts, resources(stealth)
3: Endurance, Deceit(survival)
4: Scholarship(fists)
P Stress: 4
M Stress: 3
S Stress: 3
Beast Change [–1]
ŠŠEchoes of the Beast(Wolf) [–1]
Inhuman Recovery([-2]
Catch: Silver heals normally [+2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Claws [–1]
Pack Instincts [–1]
Human Form [+1][No: Inhuman speed/strength, claws, pack instincts]
refresh:1
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That looks like only 25 skill points, not 30
Looks dropping inhuman toughness means that the value of your catch maxes out at +1. You have to pay at least one net point for your toughness powers. Yes, this does mean that inhuman toughness + inhuman recovery with a catch of silver costs the same as just inhuman recovery with a catch of silver.
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Looks dropping inhuman toughness means that the value of your catch maxes out at +1. You have to pay at least one net point for your toughness powers. Yes, this does mean that inhuman toughness + inhuman recovery with a catch of silver costs the same as just inhuman recovery with a catch of silver.
That doesn't make sense and I'm not sure I understand how your getting +1. inhuman recovery still costs -2 recovery but the "Musts: You must attach this power to a Catch(see this page)." with it being "The Catch [+varies]", both on YS185 The catch is a completely different power rather than a modifier like human form's Regular joe(YS176) where you can get between +0 and +1 depending on how much is locked away in that form. rather than the catch being a power modifier like regular joe. It has a + varies with "If the Catch is bypassed by something that anyone could reasonably get access to, but usually doesn’t carry on them(like cold iron), you get a +2. If it is by passed by something only a rare class of people in the world have (like TrueMagic), you get a +1." silver is definitely reasonably accessible. If this isn't just a case of mistaken bundling, I can buy a single catch applying to all of the inhuman recovery/toughness type powers rather than being able to take it for each power like I initially thought it could be taken but I'm not sure where your getting that +1 from.
As for skills:
human form skill config ()'s denote a skill shuffling in wolf form
1*7: Performance, Conviction, Presence, Empathy, Rapport, investigation, intimidation
2*5: Contacts, Alertness, Discipline, Contacts, resources(stealth)
3*3: Endurance, Deceit(survival), Discipline,
4*1: Scholarship(fists)
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Yes, but the 'maximum refund' you can get from a catch is always the total of your toughness powers minus one.
So, for example, if you powers looked like:
[-2] Inhuman Recovery
[+1] The Catch: Silver (+2 Common, +1 Research; Max 1)
Total Cost: -1
You can only get +1 back from the catch, even though it's technically worth 3 points.
So, if your powers look like:
[-2] Inhuman Recovery
[-2] Inhuman Toughness
[+3] The Catch: Silver (+2 Common, +1 Research; Max 3)
Total Cost: -1
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On skills:
In general, it's the skills that are at three or higher that are important, since they are the skills that you can usually do stuff with without having to spend a FATE point. A pure mortal with few stunts can 'afford' to have a lot of skills at two because they can always drop a fate point for a +2 to whatever skill they happen to need at the moment. That's one of the advantages of having a lot of refresh lying around. But for any character build with only 1 refresh free, you can't really count on having a fate point to use up on whatever skill you happen to need. So most power heavy builds are concerned with having a skill pyramid that maxes out the number of high (good or better) skills they have.
So, for example, if your skills look like:
Human Form:
4: Burglary, Deceit, Scholarship
3: Athletics, Endurance, Investigation
2: Alertness, Discipline, Resources
1: Conviction, Presence, Empathy
Then the skills you can count on are (Burglary, Deceit, Scholarship; Athletics, Endurance, Investigation) and any other skill, you'd probably need to use a FATE point on to get success.
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Yes, but the 'maximum refund' you can get from a catch is always the total of your toughness powers minus one.
Can you tell me where your getting that from?.. and whoops, your mention of athletics made me realize I left it out entirely
I went with the ()'s to denote the skill shuffle that goes with the change because it seemed like a cleaner display and was kind of just a condensed version of how Billy & Georgia were listed in OW. There is a little bit of reason behind the madness, the skill shuffle can not raise a knowledge or social skill on the "beast" side of the shuffle but I wanted the wolf side to be able to do some noncombat social type stuff like pose as a service animal and similar for investigating and such where it will probably involve using a tag like walked in with shiftchange crowd by an old lady and such. Service dogs with the vest are like Janitors with a trashcan/mop effectively invisible until they do something strange. Plus, the social prospects for a wolf are fairly limited without speech and talking to the average canine/lupine type critter (through echoes of the beast)isn't exactly going to be talking with him like in changes. dogs might be pretty smart sometimes but they aren't exactly villians, and any doglike villian is probably going o be more of a loup garou or hexenwolf type variety you prpbably don't much want to talk to any more than that crazy violent pcp user charging you.
skills: whoops... looks like I left out burglary when I changed the format and added some other stufff in its place, fixed below
Human Form:
4: Burglary, Scholarship
3: Athletics, Deceit, Endurance, Presence, resources
2: Alertness, Discipline, Investigation, Might
1: Conviction, Empathy, Performance, Presence, Rapport, discipline, guns
Wolf Form
4: Fists
3: Athletics, Endurance, Burglary, stealth
2 Alertness, Discipline, Might, Presence, Survival
1: Conviction, Empathy, Performance, Presence, Rapport, Investigation
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Can you tell me where your getting that from?.. and whoops, your mention of athletics made me realize I left it out entirely
YS 185
[qupte]
Catches cannot reduce the total cost of your Toughness powers below –1. You may specify more than one Catch if you so choose, but you can only receive the discount once; take the best one.
[/quote]
And note that both 'toughness' and 'recovery' powers both fall under the general heading of 'toughness powers'.
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YS 185
[qupte]
Catches cannot reduce the total cost of your Toughness powers below –1. You may specify more than one Catch if you so choose, but you can only receive the discount once; take the best one.
And note that both 'toughness' and 'recovery' powers both fall under the general heading of 'toughness powers'.
Ahh, I' using the pdf and didn't notice that up there. I'd probably drop the recovery/catch thing seeing/knowing that now
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Tetra your fixed skills total 38. You also aren't following the pyramid rule. For every +4 skill you need to have a +1,+2, and a +3 first.
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To clarify what I meant you have 4 +2 skills and 5 +3 skills. Every +3 needs to have a +2 and a +1 underneath it.
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Interesting stuff, but I'm not sure it's very helpful for the OP, assuming he's still around.