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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Belial666 on May 02, 2011, 06:10:52 PM
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Given that there are stunts that could give you extra consequences, how many extra consequences do you think should be the limit? Or do you think there should be no limit?
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For the sake of a GM's sanity', I'd like to set a limit at 2-3 extra per player. One can have too many things to Compel. Thankfully the minor ones don't need to stick around too long. But the player is trading plot agency for plot armor, which I think is fair enough.
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Generally, our GM has no problem with extra consequences so long as they are Minor Consequences being added. Example: 5/7/9/11 etc in endurance, conviction, or presence. Stunts: one for physical, mental, social. Maybe a custom one or two, but at a certain point you're trying to make a one trick pony with nothing but tanking features and with the abilityto homebrew stunts, I think there are far more interesting things to do with said refresh.
Thus most PC's and NPC's will only get 1-5 additional consequences of each type...sounds like a lot...likely is a lot, but since they're just minor and in most cases require a skill cap of 7 or higher...won't happen. If the skill caps are 9+ the GM should expect to work extra hard to drop players or just use nastier evocations.
Moderate/Severe/Extreme - simply aren't allowed. I tend to agree with this mentality aside from the occaisional need for a monster to have a power granting a bit more resilience. That is of course within the purview of the almighty GM.
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Extra consequences really don't change the game "feel" that much.
I've actually found that extending the stress track is exponentially more powerful than an extra mild consequence or two.
I have a PC in my campaign with a stress track 10 boxes long. He also has high endurance. It is very hard to hurt him much at all - which is ok.
:)
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Extra consequences really don't change the game "feel" that much.
I've actually found that extending the stress track is exponentially more powerful than an extra mild consequence or two.
I have a PC in my campaign with a stress track 10 boxes long. He also has high endurance. It is very hard to hurt him much at all - which is ok.
:)
That is why mythic toughness is awesome you can be hit by 13 stress boxes worth of damage and not get any concequences, its a pity thier isn't a titanic toughness power [-8] armour 4 +8 stress boxes though I suppose it would be weak compaired to the sillyness of physical immunity.
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Yeah, high stress tracks can absorb a lot more damage than extra consequences. But consider someone taking stunts like the following a few times;
Deep Reserves: you have 2 extra mild mental consequences usable with magic.
Improved Toughness: you have 2 extra mild physical consequences that absorb attack damage. (but not torture, backlash, magic costs and the like)
A submerged sorceror could well take Deep Reserves 3 times. Admittedly, it is not as effective as refinement power-wise but stamina-wise, he could cast 6 extra spells every other combat.
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Yeah, high stress tracks can absorb a lot more damage than extra consequences. But consider someone taking stunts like the following a few times;
Deep Reserves: you have 2 extra mild mental consequences usable with magic.
Improved Toughness: you have 2 extra mild physical consequences that absorb attack damage. (but not torture, backlash, magic costs and the like)
A submerged sorceror could well take Deep Reserves 3 times. Admittedly, it is not as effective as refinement power-wise but stamina-wise, he could cast 6 extra spells every other combat.
It's a good thing stunts don't stack so no 6 minor concequences for a wizard.
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Deep Reserves: you have 2 extra mild mental consequences usable with magic.
Dark Supplicant: you have 2 extra mild mental consequences usable with black magic - such consequences are thematically flavored similar to sponsor debt.
Absolute Conviction: your conviction is treated as 2 points higher for the purpose of extra mental consequences.
There. Fixed the "stackability" issue.
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That is why mythic toughness is awesome you can be hit by 13 stress boxes worth of damage and not get any concequences, its a pity thier isn't a titanic toughness power [-8] armour 4 +8 stress boxes though I suppose it would be weak compaired to the sillyness of physical immunity.
I just won't allow a player or NPC with a catchless physical immunity in my campaign.
Maybe a plot device, but even then...
It seems to me that anything physical on Earth can be hurt. Hell, the son of the White God was crucified. (not trying to start a debate here - just an example).
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The existing stunts that are comparable are:
No Pain, No Gain: You can take a bunch of punishment before it starts to add up. You may take one additional mild physical consequence (page 203).
(Analysis: 2 shifts of benefit useable at most every other scene)
Resilient Self-Image: Your sense of self is strong, enabling you to endure more psychological punishment than most. When facing torture or other extreme interrogation techniques, You may take two additional mild mental consequences (page 203).
(Analysis: 4 shifts of benefit useable only very, very rarely)
So first off, I'd point out that gaining two widely applicable consequences is beyond the scope of a stunt. You can either take one consequence that can be used under common circumstances or two consequences that can be used rarely. I would not consider 'useable with black magic' to be 'rare' for someone who practices black magic (or who deals with such a person), for example. Use the 'Self-Image' example as a guideline: if you plan on making use of the consequence more often that ... oh, say even a CIA covert agent might be likely to make use of the Self-Image stunt, then you probably only get one consequence, tops.
But to answer your question, I would say that you should not be able to stack more than one stunt's worth of conseqences of each type, plus any you gain from your relevant skills. (Note that I would count the mild consequence from your "Absolute Conviction" as not stacking with other stunts, since it is still stunt-based.) I'd still allow overlapping stunts -- for example, a character could take "Deep Reserves" (+1 mild mental) and "Resilient Self Image" (+2 mild mentals vs torture) which would net them a general-use mild mental and a second torture-only mild mental.
Of course, the last paragraph is my opinion on implementing the 'non-stacking' guidelines given for stunt-creation. Implementation varies by game, but note that the rules suggest that any additional stacking stunts should be less effective (and I don't think adding in 'half-mild' consequences is a good idea.)