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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 06:22:45 AM

Title: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 06:22:45 AM
Hello all,

I was working some more on a character for a submerged game, and I decided on a focused practitioner focusing on Earth magics, so I decided to make something that he would use as a focus, and a useful Item of power, here is my first draft, as I get your point of views I may adjust it.  I think it would also be easy to drop this character down to waist deep, or chest deep without to much trouble.  

High Concept: Orphaned Apprentice Wizard
Aspects: Orphan of the Red Court War, Live to Run Away Another Day, My Father Made It, Some Things Just Deserve It!

Skills
Superb +5:      Weaponry
Great +4:         Lore, Discipline
Good +3:         Stealth, Empathy, Endurance
Fair +2:            Conviction, Presence, Might, Contacts
Average +1:      Athletics, Resources, Scholarship, Rapport, Deceit

Stunts  (Both are from the Home brew Stunts Master List)
Parry Everything:  
Enchanted Item Master:

Powers: Refresh +6
Thaumaturgy: Crafting Frequency +1, The Sight, Soul Gaze, Wizard's Constitution
Item of Power: Claws, Breath Weapon, Discount: +1

Enchanted Item
Enchanted Bracers:
-Effect: Block: 6, or Armor: 3
-Frequency: 3 uses

Base Refresh: 10
Adjusted Refresh: 2

Combat Break Down:
Defense: +6 to defend vs. Physical attacks, +1 to dodge against non-physical attacks.
Attack: +6 to hit
Damage: +2 stress per hit
Armor: Armor 3, 3 times per session.  
Notes: No mental stress per attack.

(Character Edited due to advice.)
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: MijRai on April 20, 2011, 08:03:21 AM
I would definitely work on the 'parry everything' stunt. Stunts are what humans can do, and humans can't deflect bullets with swords. Perhaps phrase it like Footwork, but require a weapon for it.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: crusher_bob on April 20, 2011, 08:07:37 AM
Why did you use a IoP to do something that your innate powers can do already anyway?  With channeling, you can make targeting 5, damage 5 attacks.  With you IoP, you can make targeting 5, damage 2 attacks.  Admittedly, you don't have to spend mental stress for those attacks, but you've could have just carried a gun instead and gotten the same effect.  You could, for example, describe the summoning instant amber doo-dads as how your spells look.

The way your character is built, he has a lot of points tied up in combat stuff, but he can't keep up with a combat character in the same refresh rating.

Consider a shapeshifter with superb athletics and fists, inhuman everything, and claws.  He can dodge at 6, he can make claw attacks at targeting 5, damage 4, and easily has the points left over for some toughness powers.  In addition, his shapeshifting lets him shift his skills so he can be good at something other than just mauling people.

Normally, wizards get the 'we want you on our team' thing going because, despite their lack of (otherwise useful) skills, they have full thaumaturgy, which lets they do a whole lot of useful stuff.  Your build can just do wards, which probably don't come up that often.

I'd recommend, at a minimum, dropping claws, which are redundant with your breath weapon anyway, and getting full thaumaturgy.  That way, you can at least do stuff other that fight.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 08:22:16 AM
My reasoning for the stunt, & the Claws power which happens to be from this forum, is that it would allow the character to use the Claws power to make defensive rolls with his weapon skill.  I was thinking of it like the
(click to show/hide)
.  

I happen to agree with you the only reason I have the Channeling is that it fit the concept, of a young orphaned apprentice but I can see dropping it to upgrade to Thaumaturgy, and saving a refresh.

I also understand that Evocation, is probably a better route to take than the Breath weapon, but  don't want to get caught in the same old rut, of uber sorcerer.  

I also put up a thread specifically about breath weapon, and Claws that includes most of the stuff on the other Breath Weapon threads but condensed and easier to read through.  It is here, http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,25451.0.html
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: crusher_bob on April 20, 2011, 08:35:11 AM
My main warning about the character is that you have almost all your stuff tied up in combat related things, and you aren't as good at combat as any of the other standard combat builds.  So, if other people at the table bring combat characters, you'll be overshadowed by them, and still not be able to do much outside of combat.

Consider a shapeshifter:
with
-1 Beast Change
-1 Echoes of the Beast
-2 Inhuman Recovery

+1 human form, effecting:
-1 Claws
-2 Inhuman Strength
-2 Inhuman speed
-2 Inhuman toughness

+3 the catch (sliver)

Skills:
(Beast form)
Superb: Fists, Athletics
Great: Alertness, Steath
Good: Investigation, Endurance
(etc)

(Human Form)
Superb: Rapport, Empathy
Great: Presence, Deceit
Good: Contacts, Athletics
(etc)

That's -7 refresh in powers.  And that character has the potential to overshadow your guy at everything.
If the other characters aren't combat builds, then maybe you'll do OK as the groups primary combatant.  But most submerged characters tend to be pretty good at fighting, even if it's not really their thing.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 09:28:36 AM
Well you have a good point, and frankly I think the skill changes for Shape-Shifters allow them to min-max better than most, but where was I. 

I have taken a look at what you have posted and am adjusting my character, I will edit the original post. 
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: crusher_bob on April 20, 2011, 09:50:13 AM
Yes, but a submerged wizard can blow stuff up really well, and has the "we'll always have a place for you on the team" power of thaumaturgy.  A WCV will have awesome mind whammy powers, and will fight reasonably well.  A full human can have enough fate points to spend one on everything.  It's not like the shapeshifter leaves the builds other totally in the dust.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: BumblingBear on April 20, 2011, 10:05:27 AM
^^^ Not by a long shot.

In my experience, wizards suck at social attacks, but are decent at social defense depending on what they specced in.

It is always good when a wizard can find a thematically appropriate way to attack or defend with discipline as well.

Also, wizards can do maneuvers with magic.  For instance, making your wizard slightly glow during a social combat, then in the next round making his eyes light up with inner fire are relatively simple spells to pull off, and will give you +4 to a social attack.

Not bad.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: Belial666 on April 20, 2011, 10:37:42 AM
Here is a way you can do it better;

Skills
Superb:    Weapons, Lore
Great:      Discipline, Empathy
Good:      Conviction, Endurance
Fair:        Stealth, Presence, Contacts
Average:  Athletics, Resources, Scholarship, Rapport, Deceit

Stunts and Powers
[-1] Footwork (for weapons instead of fists)
[-1] Arcane Weaponsmaster - +1 to weapons rolls with your chosen magical weapon
[-3] Thaumaturgy: Crafting Power +1, 4 enchanted item slots
[-2] Refinenent 2x: Crafting Frequency Specialization +2, Crafting Power Focus +2
[-1] The Sight, Soul Gaze, Wizard's Constitution
[-1] Item of Power: Sword of Lightning - weapon 3 sword with "breath" weapon and True Strike, +2 rebate (it's a sword, one side iron the other silvered)

Enchanted items
Your items have each a strength of 8 and 3 uses/day. 2 of them will be potions. The other 2 will be pommel jewels added to your sword (so you use your sword to use them)
Storm of Blades (red gem). Weapon 6 attack on an entire zone. Battle Aclarity (Blue Gem). Defensive item - maneuver that applies 2 taggable aspects to yourself.

Combat Stats
+7 defense vs physical, +4 vs mental and some social, +1 vs the remaining social
+7 attack with Weapon 3 at melee, Weapon 2 at ranged. Melee attacks satisfy catches for Faeries or Shifters/Lycanthropes.
May use one of 3 charges or a mental stress to attack an entire zone at ranged with weapon 6 at +7
When attacked, may use one of 3 charges or a mental stress to get 2 taggable aspects (usually for that defense), raising the defense to +11 for that roll.
Alternatively, may choose to keep the aspects to tag on an attack and raise it to +11 instead.
May craft 2 potions with base strength 8 and 3 uses each. Potion strength can be enhanced similar to rituals.
May make a Lore roll to declare he's already brewed the right potion for the situation, assuming he has not used that potion already.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 11:13:07 AM
Damn Belial, you are one scary bastard at character optimizing sheesh. . .

I mean that with all due respect, by the way how did you get an attack of 7 with the sword?  I am counting a 6, 5 for skill with a +1 stunt?
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: BumblingBear on April 20, 2011, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 11:13:07 AM
Damn Belial, you are one scary bastard at character optimizing sheesh. . .

I mean that with all due respect, by the way how did you get an attack of 7 with the sword?  I am counting a 6, 5 for skill with a +1 stunt?

You should see his demons he stats up.

They're terrifying.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: ways and means on April 20, 2011, 12:40:09 PM
Quote from: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 11:13:07 AM
Damn Belial, you are one scary bastard at character optimizing sheesh. . .

I mean that with all due respect, by the way how did you get an attack of 7 with the sword?  I am counting a 6, 5 for skill with a +1 stunt?

True Aim never forget true aim.
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: My Dark Sunshine on April 20, 2011, 12:48:05 PM
Nice work Belial!

I do however have questions about one bit. Knowing you, it is probably correct; I'd just like to see how you got there, as I can't quite work it out.

Quote from: Belial666 on April 20, 2011, 10:37:42 AM
[-3] Thaumaturgy: Crafting Power +1, 4 enchanted item slots
[-2] Refinenent 2x: Crafting Frequency Specialization +2, Crafting Power Focus +2

I can't seem to see how this works. It doesn't seem tofollow the pyramid.
Thaumaturgy: Crafting Power +1.

Refinement adds Crafting Frequency +1, Crafting Power +1.
For: Crafting Power +2, Crafting Frequency +1.

The next refinement is unable to get Frequency to +2, because even adding another random specialisation (necessary for pyramid), would still only give you a single +1, allowing for a single +2 (not two).

Unless these are Foci bonuses, not Specialisations?

Or, am I viewing this wrong some how? Clarification would be appreciated!
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: citadel97501 on April 20, 2011, 12:50:58 PM
I missed it the first time, as usual because I rarely read the section on the Swords of the Cross because I don't like them. . . I really wish they had separated the powers from that, and then gave us the powers of the sword of the cross.  It would have made it a lot easier to work items out.  
Title: Re: Requesting opinions/advice on a Focused Practitioner
Post by: Belial666 on April 20, 2011, 02:09:49 PM
Thaumaturgy gives you a free Specialization which you put into Crafting Power. You now got Crafting Power +1.
The 1st Refinement gives you 2 specializations. You put them both into Crafting Frequency. You now have Crafting Power +1, Crafting Frequency +2, following the pyramid.
The 2nd Refinement gives you 2 foci. Those make a nice +2 crafting power focus.
So, some of them are specializations, the others are foci. It is a good idea to put as little into a focus as you can afford; sometimes you might lose the focus after all. Keep in mind however, that losing a crafting focus would only affect your potions; the rest of your enchanted items have already been crafted and they would not change even if you wanted them to.



Do note that the above is not terribly optimised for a submerged spellcaster. The following is called the "Evil Enchantress" build and playing it might annoy your GM;
[-3] Evocation (spirit control +1, 2 focus slots)
[-1] Book of Beleth IoP: Hellfire (power +1, 2 focus slots)
[-2] Lawbreaker 4th 2x (mind control +2)
[-3] Refinement 3x (4 focus slots, spirit power +2)
[+0] Unnatural Constitution, Human Guise
[+0] Foci: offensive spirit power +4, offensive spirit control +4
The reason it is called the Evil Enchantress is that she can outright dominate any enemy in Our World that has stats with a single spell. Even if the enemy has a superb discipline, they get hammered by 17 mental stress by her weakest rote (Power 12, Control 12 mindrape). This means they got to take a severe and extreme consequence not to be taken out (a mild+moderate+severe is not enough). If she's willing to push it with more than a rote or rolls more than average, they get mindraped, no save. They could go for Fate points but not only she can spend Fate herself to even things out but she also can take Sponsored Debt to boost her magic, trumping Fate Point expenditure.