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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: kingaling on April 09, 2011, 08:50:57 PM
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I've got a story in the works, I'm converting it from one of my old scripts. It's called "The Stoicist". Essentially there are these people who can take the pain they are given in combat and convert it into raw energy and powers based on the amount of ignorance they show to the pain. If they take on some kind of injury but don't immediately convert it into power it is reserved on their body in various forms. Some have scars, some have bruises, band aids, stitches etc. Some stoicists have different powers based on how they are most hurt. The majority of stoicists get their powers from physical injury, but there are those that are hurt emotionally or mentally that are forces to be reckoned with.
I'm wondering, A) Whether anyone finds this interesting and unique. and B) What various powers or abilities would form from such a sadistic source? I don't want "the force" or some kind of invisible wall of energy or something like that, but I can't seem to think of what there could be. All ideas are welcome.
Thanks!
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I think this has potential. In most serious fantasy there is a price for magic. I do have some questions about this system. Is it the pain or the actual damage that is converted to magical energy? Does it have to be received in combat? What about self inflicted wounds? What about those inflicted by friends ( a little S & M)? When the injuries are converted to magical energies are they healed or is the person still physically injured?
I think this idea has potential but, like most ideas, it is how you develop it that will determine how interesting it is.
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I like the idea, but I have some of the same questions that OZ has, the biggest being if it's physical pain, are the injuries immediately healed?
As far as the abilities they can use, I would leave it a little bit open. Maybe each one learns to develop it differently. They could be strictly physical augmentations, like getting stronger or faster. Or you could direct it more to the non physical, more of a magical type thing. Or a little bit of both. I think that would provide you with the most latitude for development, where some people learn to channel it into physical abilities, and others can throw fire or the like.
Rather then figure out what you want them to do with it, figure out what you DON'T want them to do. Do you want them to be able to heal others with this ability? Fly? Dance really well? Can they only do one particular thing, or can they learn to channel it differently? If you start figuring out the limitations and things you don't want them to have, what they can do will start to take shape and you'll be able to fill in the details from there.
Here's a couple more questions for you. What prevents the enemy from simply not targeting these superpeople? If they know that the more you hurt this person, the stronger they get, why not just order everyone to not hurt them? What happens if you you have a one on one fight between two superpeople, does it just go on forever as they steadily get stronger? How long can they store the energy, and how much can they store? Could someone essentially do nothing but beat the crap out of themselves for years and eventually take on entire armies alone?
It's definitely a good idea, and could be pretty interesting if you do it right. Keep us updated as you develop it. I'm more then happy to ask lots and lots of questions.
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Yeah, I too think this has potential, but could be tough to pull off if your characters constantly need to get the crap kicked out of them just to do any magic--it sounds as if they would actively have to seek out pain and injury in that case, and be incapacitated physically a lot of the time.
But I can envision some interesting flashbacks where your protagonist is, say, an abused child who unexpectedly goes apeshit on the abusive parent/guardian/whoever. And the S&M angle could work, too, depending on your target audience.
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I dig it.
Suggestion: different mages maybe use different kinds of pain (emotional, sexual, combative) to fuel different types of magic (elemental, battle, spiritual).
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Wow. what great questions! Really has me thinking. Some of these answers I created off the top of my head, thanks guys. Keep 'em coming!
Is it the pain or the actual damage that is converted to magical energy? It's the pain.
Does it have to be received in combat? Not solely, everyday nicks and scrapes can be channeled into energy, but the real juice lies in combat and extensive training. In training, by the way, they don't pull punches, but there are levels.
What about self inflicted wounds? Self infliction doesn't work, as the person knows beforehand to maintain stoicism. It's the non-reaction to unknowable pain that gives them the power.
What about those inflicted by friends ( a little S & M)? I had never considered that before.. I'd say that wouldn't work, because there's actually a factor of enjoyment to it and kind of dissolves the Stoic power.
When the injuries are converted to magical energies are they healed or is the person still physically injured? They're healed.
What prevents the enemy from simply not targeting these superpeople? The enemies, who are more or less Stoicists themselves, always target with intent to kill as quickly as possible. This has forced the Stoicists to become experts at evasion, but always keep a part of themselves in harms way as to build up energy.
If they know that the more you hurt this person, the stronger they get, why not just order everyone to not hurt them? As stated previously, their intent is to kill quickly, any pain or injuries caused are strictly accidental. The stoicists enemies play it through cats paws, they try to maintain quietness and only fight The Stoicists if necessary or if an order to kill them has been botched.
What happens if you have a one on one fight between two superpeople, does it just go on forever as they steadily get stronger? It isn't their strength that evolves, it's their power. Completely different. For example, someone may be able to lift 200 lbs. But if you've been lifting 130 lbs all day long, it's going to be difficult to lift more. The stoicists battling each other can become a stalemate if both are cavalier with their evasion and pain issuing tactics, both can continue gaining energy but it doesn't mean they're on even ground, there's still experience vs. strength and it's something I still need to develop.
How long can they store the energy, and how much can they store? The energy can be stored for however long they want to, some have even trained themselves in picking and choosing which scars will be used and such.
Could someone essentially do nothing but beat the crap out of themselves for years and eventually take on entire armies alone? As stated earlier, self inflicted pain doesn't work. Just hurts you. I'm actually thinking about it taking away some of the power. A price to pay for the pursuit of power, I guess.
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you might consider changing the abilities they gain based on the type of injury inflicts the pain. if burned you can use fire power, if stabbed you can grow blades out of your flesh or something, if shot fire projectiles of your own. emotional pain could be more metaphysical such as creating illusions or summoning monsters, or even shape shifting.
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Hi,
This idea certainly sounds cool, but is there a reason why they are called Stoicists and not just Stoics? It sounds cooler i.m.o. and you could still use the Capital S to distinguish between Stoics and regular stoics :P.
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Hi,
This idea certainly sounds cool, but is there a reason why they are called Stoicists and not just Stoics? It sounds cooler i.m.o. and you could still use the Capital S to distinguish between Stoics and regular stoics :P.
Thanks for thinking of it as cool, though you don't like the term.
The main reason they are called Stoicists is to differentiate my story from the Hellenistic order of Greek philosophers known as the Stoics. Plus I learned the word "stoicism" before I learned "stoic" so (to me) someone who exhibits a massive amount of stoicism is a Stoicist.
That's starting to get convoluted, but you get the idea.
you might consider changing the abilities they gain based on the type of injury inflicts the pain. if burned you can use fire power, if stabbed you can grow blades out of your flesh or something, if shot fire projectiles of your own. emotional pain could be more metaphysical such as creating illusions or summoning monsters, or even shape shifting.
I was actually thinking along those lines, definitely got the right idea.
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I really like the idea,
To me, it seems like an awesome twist on a blood mage. It kind of like the difference between white court and Red Court vamps. Stoicist us the pain or emotion brought forward from the pain VS the Blood mage using the soul energy reserved in the body.
Other things that came to my mind when thinking about your project
1 – once they heal does it just heal the damage or does it also fight age?
2 – Do they talk about fight club?
3 – Do the longer lived of the group build up tolerance for pain, and need to absorb more damage to be able the get the same amount of power?
4 – what kind of magic or powers do they develop. If was creating my own character I would think primarily body type magic. Strength, bursts of speed or endurance, etc…
5 – Does any kind of pain give them energy? Would you consider a blinding light a physical pain that they could absorb?
6 – what happens when they go dry, use all there energy up?
Again great idea
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Wow, these are some great questions. I had to take some time to think of good answers.
1 – once they heal does it just heal the damage or does it also fight age? It heals the damage, there's no age fighting here. Age and growing pains technically go under self inflicted pain, so stoicism doesn't work on it.
2 – Do they talk about fight club? There are only a eight or nine groups based around the world, it isn't a secret but society as a whole hasn't noticed it. At least not yet.
3 – Do the longer lived of the group build up tolerance for pain, and need to absorb more damage to be able the get the same amount of power? Great question. The short answer is yes. I think the longer lived Stoicists (if they're lucky enough to reach old age) have built up an indifference to pain and as such most of their jobs are in the governmental side as to keep them from more damage than they need be exposed to. Not even sure if that answers the question, but that's what I got.
4 – what kind of magic or powers do they develop. If I was creating my own character I would think primarily body type magic. Strength, bursts of speed or endurance, etc… Yep, that's essentially it. Increased stamina and the like, but there are a fine few who have access to a deeper more "magical" element of their powers.
5 – Does any kind of pain give them energy? Would you consider a blinding light a physical pain that they could absorb? I think I answered this in an earlier question, but only pain given by others gives them powers. Whether it's internal or external pain it must come from a source that is not themselves. Blinding light is an awesome idea, I'd see it as a big distraction, but then there'd be someone who rises above it and uses it against the enemy. That's awesome, thanks. May see that in the story.
6 – what happens when they go dry, use all their energy up? The world is a painful place, there's no shortage of things that can cause pain. Even banging their hand on a counter at a store accidentally will give them at least a small amount of Stoic energy.
Great questions, I look forward to more and hope I answered yours.
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This is an interesting concept, in that their powers are as much about mental discipline as anything else. Do you have an antagonist in mind? There are many different opportunities available. If your stoicists gather their power by their ability to ignore physical pain and maintain emotional control, what would motivate them to come into conflict with one another if that is your intention? If the goal is to be calm and absorb an attack, you might run into trouble if both sides are defensive. If they are both passivists, who would throw the first punch? What about introducing another class that derives their power by causing or feeling pain and emotion? Sort of an anti-stoicist. This could lead to some psychological disorders and sadomasochistic tendencies. But maybe I'm getting away from what your intentions are.
What would be really interesting is the psychological impact this sort of power will have on your characters. The biggest threat to their powers seems to be their own level of discipline and ability to remain dispassionate. That may make them think about what happens if they start to enjoy the pain. As you said they will lose their abilities, which might weigh heavily on their minds. You may want to introduce characters that have experienced this loss. Perhaps they are simply powerless, or maybe they would exhibit symptoms of withdrawal.
Another thought. What about using chemical pain suppressants like morphine? That could open a whole new bag such as addition, dulled senses, and death.
This is a neat idea. Best of luck to you!
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Do you have an antagonist in mind? I do, as of now I'm calling him Bandage Man. He's someone who has maintained stoicism through many battles and built up his energy to such an extent that most his body is covered in reserves of bandages. He was part of the Stoicists but was banished due to his dangerousness. His blood soaked bandages have caused people to lose their minds and has brought about an epidemic that people have taken to calling The Insanity Strikings.
If your stoicists gather their power by their ability to ignore physical pain and maintain emotional control, what would motivate them to come into conflict with one another if that is your intention? They aren't pacifists, if a fight erupts then a fight erupts. But if they're on the same side they tend to make a point of not using their powers on each other.
Another thought. What about using chemical pain suppressants like morphine? That is awesome, could help quite a bit with character growth, thanks!
Loving the questions, everyone, it's so much help, thank you all!
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If the whole world is not aware of them, they could boost their powers by intentionally breaking the law in places that practice physical punishment. I would think a beating with a rattan cane or a cat of nine tails would cause some serious pain.
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If the whole world is not aware of them, they could boost their powers by intentionally breaking the law in places that practice physical punishment. I would think a beating with a rattan cane or a cat of nine tails would cause some serious pain.
Mmm, that would work in some ways, but wouldn't be any benefit to them. It's better for them to remain under the radar as to not draw attention to themselves from their enemies who seek their immediate deaths.
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Why not through in someone who can take their power by healing them?
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Why not through in someone who can take their power by healing them?
:o <- I Literally did that.
Whoa, awesome! Thank you. That's so cool! Why didn't I come up with that. Will use, thanks again.
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Idle thought: Is there any added benefit to taking more permanent damage? Like could a stoic loose an eye but get some kind of 3rd sight Odin-style? Or maybe full blinding to make a prophet/seer? What about if got his hand doused in lava, could he loose the hand but get some more permanent fire powers? And if they took some permanent emotional or psychological damage (death of a spouce/child for example) would it give a lasting power of some kind?
And I know you said self-inflicted damage doesn't grant power, but I had an image of wandering ascetic Saints, gaining power from vows of poverty, chastity etc as a form of spiritual stoicism.
Another idle thought while I was typing that: What about hunger? If a stoicist finds himself crossing a dessert and there is no food or water, will he gain power? How about just being locked up in prison? I would be funny for stoic prisons to be like lush spa resort, that do there best to prevent any inflicted hardship, just to keep power opportunities from arising.
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How about someone who has pins and plates in their limbs? How about someone suffering from a disease like arthritis?
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I like the idea, it has a lot of potential. As others already said, using physical pain should provide physical powers. Easier to come by, but not all that potent.
Someone that is using emotional pain and therefore more abstract and more powerful magic would have to work a whole lot harder to fuel up, but then he could really lay waste upon his enemies. I imagine some sort of psychiatrist or something, who is taking the emotional pain of his patients and making them his own, thus powering up. Hell, he could even literally take their pain, making him pretty darn effective in his job.
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Wow! Thanks everyone for giving me some excellent questions. Haru, you'll find that alot of your statements have answers in the first few questions. I did comment on one of your statements though.
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Is there any added benefit to taking more permanent damage? Like could a stoic lose an eye but get some kind of 3rd sight Odin-style? Or maybe full blinding to make a prophet/seer? You have to remember that the whole idea behind the stoicists power is that they have to be stone faced upon pain. I'm not sure even my most powerful Stoicist could hold it together long enough to get any power off of something as traumatic as losing an eye, or both.
What about if got his hand doused in lava, could he loose the hand but get some more permanent fire powers? The relationship of stoicistic power has nothing to do with the type of pain they're given. It's the amount of pain that is thrown at them that determines how big or small their reaction or stored energy is. If someone has the ability of fire, and they get doused with lava and loses a hand, but remains stoic about it, then the energy from losing his hand is stored in its usual form (band-aid, scar etc) And then once that energy has been used up later, then it's used up.
And if they took some permanent emotional or psychological damage (death of a spouce/child for example) would it give a lasting power of some kind? That's an interesting one and something I've been playing around with. Now, as something like this is traumatic in a mindset, we get into the realm of emotional and mental stoicism. These horrible feelings can be bottled up and stored to a massive extent, but there's a cost. It feeds off of your battle scars. And if you don't have any, then it just feeds off of your life force. The one postive thing that comes out of this doesn't cost energy at all, is resolute. I.E. remaining stonefaced through almost anything. Some stoicists have managed to use their torturous pasts to gain resolute, and then let go. And as a bonus, stoicists that move past their emotional and mental pains get to keep resolute.
And I know you said self-inflicted damage doesn't grant power, but I had an image of wandering ascetic Saints, gaining power from vows of poverty, chastity etc as a form of spiritual stoicism. Yeah, still self inflicted, interesting idea though.
If a stoicist finds himself crossing a dessert and there is no food or water, will he gain power? It takes a cunning stoicist to realize that the scorching heat of desert sun is an exterior source of pain, but damned if you can find one that can remain stone faced throughout it. Hunger and thirst is a self caused pain so no power granted.
How about just being locked up in prison? It would be funny for stoic prisons to be like lush spa resort, that do there best to prevent any inflicted hardship, just to keep power opportunities from arising. I have thought of this same thing. I was going to do it, but then I realized even if they got hurt, it wouldn't grant them power. In the enemy prisons everyone is locked up and fastened tight. They don't bring anyone alive unless they haven't exponged all of their powers and have information. There's no one that harms the inmates. Just interrogation and immediate execution.
How about someone who has pins and plates in their limbs? Actually I have a character whose at rest power is stored this way.
How about someone suffering from a disease like arthritis? As much as it sucks, arthritis is still pain from ones own body and therefore negates power granting.
I like the idea, it has a lot of potential. Thanks!
As others already said, using physical pain should provide physical powers. Physical pain isn't what provides the power, it's the ignorance of it.
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Just stumbled upon this, seems like a good idea but... Why would there enemies ever attack them? If I personally wanted to kill a Stoicist I would lay in wait until I knew the one shot, stab, etc. I had would kill them. Otherwise your just making them more powerful.
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Is this going to be the only magical system explained in your story?
You mentioned you liked the idea of someone stealing their power by healing them. Would that be a separate magical system or just an inverted application of Stoicism?
If there are multiple magical systems, is it possible to practice multiple magical systems, or would it be something akin to matter/antimatter?
Obviously Stoicism requires great focus and training, but is that all just training and aptitude, or is there something akin to a mutant factor that determines whether one can actually practice the art at all?
Love the concept btw. Far more creative than anything I've come up with yet.
A question for the thread as a whole. Does anyone mind if we turn this into a generic support thread for multiple authors creating magical systems or do you want to keep the topic on Stoicism here and simply create another thread for broader discussion?
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Just stumbled upon this, seems like a good idea but... Why would there enemies ever attack them? If I personally wanted to kill a Stoicist I would lay in wait until I knew the one shot, stab, etc. I had would kill them. Otherwise your just making them more powerful.
I actually answered this one earlier in the thread. Their enemies don't attack them outright, any "attack" is a botched assassination. If they do wind up in a fight with a stoicist they do have the means to fight them off, and expertly so, but it'd be far easier and smarter to eliminate them from a distance.
Is this going to be the only magical system explained in your story? Yes
You mentioned you liked the idea of someone stealing their power by healing them. Would that be a separate magical system or just an inverted application of Stoicism? It is an inversion of Stoicism.
If there are multiple magical systems, is it possible to practice multiple magical systems, or would it be something akin to matter/antimatter? There are only Stoicism and it's inversion, it is very much matter/antimatter.
Obviously Stoicism requires great focus and training, but is that all just training and aptitude, or is there something akin to a mutant factor that determines whether one can actually practice the art at all? It is more than sheer will and determination, though that is a big factor, there is in fact a "mutant" factor. Like everything, it's in the blood.
Love the concept btw. Far more creative than anything I've come up with yet.Appreciate it, thank you!
A question for the thread as a whole. Does anyone mind if we turn this into a generic support thread for multiple authors creating magical systems or do you want to keep the topic on Stoicism here and simply create another thread for broader discussion? I should have thought of that before I posted it as "building a magic/ability system" I think I let a lot of people down. I would prefer to keep this focused on Stoicism, if you don't mind. I will change the name however, and you could create a new one :).
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I think I let a lot of people down.
Not at all yo. I would prefer to keep this focused on Stoicism, if you don't mind.
Your thread, your rules.
What kind of stuff can a Stoicist do:
When he/she just received a hit from ambush (his only power thusfar) and he's reacting to a single untrained attacker? And trained? How about 3 untrained attackers? Trained? How about a dozen untrained? Trained? Middle of a battle?
What about when he/she is full to bursting with power?
What non-combat things can stoicists do with their power? They can heal themselves, can they heal others? Does the healing process cost them power? How does the healing occur? Do they have to understand the principals of medicine and anatomy, or does the body simply place itself back in order utilizing the power stoicism provides?
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What kind of stuff can a Stoicist do:
When he/she just received a hit from ambush (his only power thusfar) and he's reacting to a single untrained attacker? Alright, so to rephrase, what happens when a Stoicist is attacked by an untrained attacker and this is the first source of power they get is from the attack? Well, firstly I'm not sure why an untrained attacker is bothering, as Stoicists aren't known for holding back. A stoicists energy gathers quickly after attack and stoic response, and as this is the only energy they have currently, they'll probably expend it into a quick fight. The untrained attacker might not die, but they'll be leaving without at least one appendage.
And trained? Trained attackers are trained assassins, they make the attempt to kill, if that doesn't happen then they tend to leave. If the assassination is botched and a fight is unavoidable, then every hit that the attacker makes is to be fatal. Trained attackers tend to leave stoicists with deep gouging wounds that are incredibly (if not impossibly) hard to remain stoic for, making the stoicist lose their focus. Stoicists in a bind tend to make their last efforts count and use all energy in reserve, the trained attacker will know to leave a stoicist to die slowly.
How about 3 untrained attackers? Well 3 untrained attackers and a stoicist with one energy reserved, thing are going to go south for the stoicist really quick. 3 untrained attackers and 2 energy reserved for stoicist, he has a fighting chance. 3 untrained attackers and 3 energy reserved puts them on the same ground. If the stoicist is lucky he'll kill one, knock out another and take something vital from the other.
Trained? 3 trained attackers on one stoicist with one energy.. instant death for stoicist. 3 trained attackers and a stoicist with two energy, stoicist still more than likely dead, but able to put up a fight. 3 trained attackers and a stoicist with 3 energy, if the stoicist uses his brains and evades all the hits, he can probably use his abilities to get away.
How about a dozen untrained? A dozen untrained is worth 3 trained. Instant death for stoicist. Same rules follow as before.
Trained? Obliteration and deletion of everything including dental records and favorite bands.
Middle of a battle? What happens in the midst of a battle between attacker and stoicist? The attackers are working to fatally wound the stoicist, but stoicists evade and lunge, they can't put themselves in as much harms way as people think, their wounds have to be unexpected or else they don't get the energy. If the stoicist already has energy then the same rules still apply, because a good hit from an attacker could interrupt the stoic train of thought and actually cause them lose some of the reserved energy.
What about when he/she is full to bursting with power? It is extremely rare (and completely dangerous) for a Stoicist to be full to bursting. A stoicist can take a lot, but the body is a body is a body. The main villain is an excellent example, he is a stoicist who has taken in way too much. He wears bandages and his wounds are bleeding out. The blood is so potent that it is full of pain and those that touch the bandages lose their minds from it.
What non-combat things can stoicists do with their power? It can aid in evasion, and jumping higher, seeing better and farther. It also depends on the stoicist. None have the same reaction to stoicism.
They can heal themselves, can they heal others? They can't heal themselves, they have really slight regenerative properties but they can't control them.
Does the healing process cost them power? Not stoicistic power, but it is exhausting for the body.
How does the healing occur? When a stoicist is wounded, and they remain stoic, the energy gathers within the wound that's formed. When they expend the energy, the wound fades away.
Do they have to understand the principals of medicine and anatomy, or does the body simply place itself back in order utilizing the power stoicism provides? Stoicists wounds heal when the power is used within them, but it leaves behind faded scars.