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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Belial666 on March 30, 2011, 09:04:52 AM
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Suppose you got a giant that's strong enough to lift and carry around tanks and locomotives. You also got access to a few military vehicles that were all hexed up in a big war and thus unusable. The war is still going on and you need heavy units. Could you use materials from the vehicles to armor the giant? I.e. take a couple dozen tons of tungsten, DU an other really heavy, really tough metals and forge a full plate for your giant that is equivalent to tank armor or more. If the giant could carry a tank (~60 tons) and typical tank armor weighs 30 tons, is it doable? Weapons-wise, a 10-ton wrecking ball or equivalent fused to a heavy-duty I-beam might make a good weapon for a giant.
I am considering the situation for an actual game - armoring up the party tank so my far less tough sorceress can hide behind him or something.
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I presume this is an at least submerged game as you are talking about mythic strength and the giant power -8 I think to create all of this you would need a very high temperature forge, most of the very heavy metals like teflon will probably have a ridiculous melting temperature and unless they were forged into something useful as armour they would be too unwieldy to wear. If you were to making such armour I would count it as armour 5 as tanks can survive rpgs etc, you might be better with a giant sword as a weapon as it would be more controllable than a wrecking ball so wouldn't kill the rest of the team.
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Well, tungsten is all but impossible to melt without high-quality arc or solar furnances due to its melting point of 6192 °F, so I was thinking magic. Given sufficient magical force, it might even be possible to reshape it without melting it. On the other hand, tungsten is usually alloyed in these cases, making the melting temperature of the alloy somewhat lower.
And yes, it is a high refresh game.
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I presume this is an at least submerged game as you are talking about mythic strength and the giant power -8 I think to create all of this you would need a very high temperature forge, most of the very heavy metals like teflon will probably have a ridiculous melting temperature and unless they were forged into something useful as armour they would be too unwieldy to wear. If you were to making such armour I would count it as armour 5 as tanks can survive rpgs etc, you might be better with a giant sword as a weapon as it would be more controllable than a wrecking ball so wouldn't kill the rest of the team.
A lot of a tanks durability is due to shaping and sub layers. I wouldn't put it anywhere past Armor: 3 unless the armor is extremely high tech. It would also be extremely unwieldy and I'd give it an aspect to represent that.
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Given that 'exceptional quality' 1 handed swords can be weapon 3, I have no real problem with 'exceptional quality' armor being armor 3. As for how much more armor you could pack on because of your extra strength, I'm not sure.
The main questions I have would be about how you got the armor designed and made. I don't think modern composite tanks armor can really be reshaped. It's made up of too many different laminated layers to just be remelted and reforged (or whatever).
A better bet would probably be whistling up some supernatural power known for it's skill in armor making and have them churn something out. And then, something like armor 4 or 5 might be possible. Note: It's probably a terrible idea to let armor granted by toughness powers and worn armor stack together. Either take the best, or the best armor +1.
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Given that 'exceptional quality' 1 handed swords can be weapon 3, I have no real problem with 'exceptional quality' armor being armor 3. As for how much more armor you could pack on because of your extra strength, I'm not sure.
The main questions I have would be about how you got the armor designed and made. I don't think modern composite tanks armor can really be reshaped. It's made up of too many different laminated layers to just be remelted and reforged (or whatever).
A better bet would probably be whistling up some supernatural power known for it's skill in armor making and have them churn something out. And then, something like armor 4 or 5 might be possible. Note: It's probably a terrible idea to let armor granted by toughness powers and worn armor stack together. Either take the best, or the best armor +1.
Yeah, I agree. Magic would be one way of doing it and probably the only way, short of higher a genius inventor for a year with a full blown lab and a huge amount of materials to create a new kind of body armor.
Stacking is a hugely bad idea. If you allow it, your game will become an arms race with enemies constantly grabbing bigger and badder forms of hurt and the characters spending most of their time creating tougher armor.
As for the part about hiding someone behind the tank, this could be extremely hard to do. The more armor the tank character has, the more powerful the weapons the enemies will use, most of the weapons with the stopping power of weapon 5 will have zone effects or will knock the giant off of his feet whether he takes damage or not.
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I am not looking for modern tank armor layer-wise. I am just going to take the superalloy (not the ceramics), melt them and then put them into a 4-inch-thick full plate. That would be the equivalent in both weight and toughness to 10 inches of steel or so. I am picking the really dense metals because of mobility - if the armor is too thick, it is going to be really unwieldy.
In comparison, the heavier tank armors today are equivalent in toughness, at least for the first couple of hits, to 40 inches of steel. That is due to the advanced ceramics and reactive explosive layers they use to dissipate hits from main tank guns. However, that kind of armor degrades rapidly against repeated hits, even from relatively lighter weapons like RPGs
The suggestion of using some supernatural with skill in armor-making is a good idea. Instead of trying to do the armor as a mundane item, we could add a few supernatural goodies into an IoP like the following that the giant in question could spend earned refresh to get, using the whole forging thing as a flavor justification;
Armor of Talos [-1]
Made by magically forging heavy metals taken out of wrecked armored vehicles, this suit of armor is one of the heaviest in the battlefield.
* It is what it is: a 30-ton, giant-sized full plate. It has armor rating 4, can only be worn by giants or similarly-sized humanoids and requires an effective might score of +16 to lift and wear effectively.
* One-time discount
* Superdense material: the armor is made of really dense metals and is better able to absorb physical punishment. +1 armor vs physical attacks, a further +1 vs ranged piercing attacks.
* Energy Resistance: the material of the armor is extremely heat and corrosion resistant and acts as a faraday cage. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs such energy attacks.
* Runes Protection: lots of warding runes have been carved onto the armor, providing minimal resistance to magic. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs direct magical attacks.
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I am not looking for modern tank armor layer-wise. I am just going to take the superalloy (not the ceramics), melt them and then put them into a 4-inch-thick full plate. That would be the equivalent in both weight and toughness to 10 inches of steel or so. I am picking the really dense metals because of mobility - if the armor is too thick, it is going to be really unwieldy.
In comparison, the heavier tank armors today are equivalent in toughness, at least for the first couple of hits, to 40 inches of steel. That is due to the advanced ceramics and reactive explosive layers they use to dissipate hits from main tank guns. However, that kind of armor degrades rapidly against repeated hits, even from relatively lighter weapons like RPGs
The suggestion of using some supernatural with skill in armor-making is a good idea. Instead of trying to do the armor as a mundane item, we could add a few supernatural goodies into an IoP like the following that the giant in question could spend earned refresh to get, using the whole forging thing as a flavor justification;
Armor of Talos [-1]
Made by magically forging heavy metals taken out of wrecked armored vehicles, this suit of armor is one of the heaviest in the battlefield.
* It is what it is: a 30-ton, giant-sized full plate. It has armor rating 4, can only be worn by giants or similarly-sized humanoids and requires an effective might score of +16 to lift and wear effectively.
* One-time discount
* Superdense material: the armor is made of really dense metals and is better able to absorb physical punishment. +1 armor vs physical attacks, a further +1 vs ranged piercing attacks.
* Energy Resistance: the material of the armor is extremely heat and corrosion resistant and acts as a faraday cage. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs such energy attacks.
* Runes Protection: lots of warding runes have been carved onto the armor, providing minimal resistance to magic. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs direct magical attacks.
So this is effecively armor 6 against ranged physical attacks, magic, heat, electricity, acid, AND mental attacks. That seems massively broken for -1 refresh.
Hell, I would argue that Mythic Toughness isn't this good and that comes with a catch as well as costing at minimum three times as much.
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Are there rules for shooting at unarmored spots? I'd say the implicit catch in the armor is that it doesn't cover the wearer's entire body, and can therefore be bypassed. If that's the case I'd say a -1 isn't that under priced, though I lean towards -2.
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I'd try something like:
Armor of Talos [-1]
Made by magically forging heavy metals taken out of wrecked armored vehicles, this suit of armor is one of the heaviest in the battlefield.
* It is what it is: a 30-ton, giant-sized full plate. It has armor rating 4, can only be worn by giants or similarly-sized humanoids and requires an effective might score of +16 to lift and wear effectively.
* One-time discount
* Superdense material: The armor is made out of things designed to specifically defeat modern weapons: against bullets, rocket launchers, grenades, etc add +1 armor
* Stupidly tough: When wearing the armor, you may take an additional minor physical consequence.
* Runes Protection: The aspect related to this armor may be invoked to provide a +3 bonus to defend against magical attacks.
That reduces the stacking bonuses.
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It does not protect against cold, poison, mental attacks (at all) and yes, one could use aspects or the aiming maneuver to aim at weak points or something.
Do note that an IoP armor of the same size that gave mythic toughness penetrated by cold and poison would cost -1 refresh. Similarly, one that gave supernatural speed (and thus +2 to defense rolls along with +4 initiative, 2 free zones of movement and no movement penalties to stealth) is -2 refresh (and speed powers have no catch)
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It does not protect against cold, poison, mental attacks (at all) and yes, one could use aspects or the aiming maneuver to aim at weak points or something.
Do note that an IoP armor of the same size that gave mythic toughness penetrated by cold and poison would cost -1 refresh. Similarly, one that gave supernatural speed (and thus +2 to defense rolls along with +4 initiative, 2 free zones of movement and no movement penalties to stealth) is -2 refresh (and speed powers have no catch)
Sorry for some reason I thought it said mental under the magical attack power.
Are you giving it the full +2 IoP bonus? I would have thought that as it can't be taken away it would only qualify for +1.
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Yes, it's statted out as armor 4 (free) 3 stunts and 2 refunded for being an large obvious IoP, so final cost is 1 refresh.
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It looks as though this is intended for the game I'm GMing, so I should probably give my opinions. Armour 3 or 4 is available, but it won't be universally applicable. IoP armour isn't available without a side plot to justify getting it.
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Wow. That would be sick.
Crudely made tank armor would be at least armor:4.
Wow.
What an epic fight that would be!
I'm actually getting ideas from this... :)
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Yes, it's statted out as armor 4 (free) 3 stunts and 2 refunded for being an large obvious IoP, so final cost is 1 refresh.
Sure it's large and obvious but the only reason that would be worth -2 is because you could somehow be robbed of it. I don't see how someone could steal your 30 ton armor without going through a great deal of effort and bringing along a massive truck or heavy lifting helicopter.
I'd also add some kind of aspect to it to represent the weight and the effect that has on the environment around you. At 30 tons your movement alone is going to wreak all but the sturdiest of terrains.
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Yes, 30 tons is a pretty stupid weight.
Pulling some numbers out of my butt:
Assuming our super heavy armor (at human scale) is around 4 times heavier than regular plate harness, that would be a weight of around 100 kg. We'll just say it weighs about as much as the guy wearing it. Now, how much does their giant PC weigh? If he weight as much as a large elephant, that's on the order of 8000 kg. So 5-10 tons for the weight of the suit makes a whole lot more sense than 30 tons...
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The -2 rebate is for an item being obvious, not being removable. That is because the greatest advantage powers have over technology is that they are not obvious and thus you cannot know what they are, what they do and what your opponent intends. Take the Swords of the Cross for example - they are a catch for the vast majority of opponents so they can't be easily taken away and their "higher purpose" ensures they cannot be used - unless you try to misuse them yourself first. However, they are swords. If anyone sees you moving around with a sword, what happens? You can't enter most places with a sword or similarly obvious weapon, and most authorities will try to get you if you openly carry one.
The armor does not get a -2 rebate because it can be stolen. It gets -2 rebate because when you wear it, everyone and their mother knows you are wearing a tank and intend to use it. If you don't wear it and a battle starts, you need at least 5 minutes to strap it on (it's full plate armor).
As for the weight of the armor, I was going with how much a tank's armor actually weighed in real life.
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The -2 rebate is for an item being obvious, not being removable. That is because the greatest advantage powers have over technology is that they are not obvious and thus you cannot know what they are, what they do and what your opponent intends. Take the Swords of the Cross for example - they are a catch for the vast majority of opponents so they can't be easily taken away and their "higher purpose" ensures they cannot be used - unless you try to misuse them yourself first. However, they are swords. If anyone sees you moving around with a sword, what happens? You can't enter most places with a sword or similarly obvious weapon, and most authorities will try to get you if you openly carry one.
The armor does not get a -2 rebate because it can be stolen. It gets -2 rebate because when you wear it, everyone and their mother knows you are wearing a tank and intend to use it. If you don't wear it and a battle starts, you need at least 5 minutes to strap it on (it's full plate armor).
As for the weight of the armor, I was going with how much a tank's armor actually weighed in real life.
Hmm... I'm not sure about this reasoning. Yes, if people see you walking around with a tank, they are going to treat you differently... on the other hand, if people see you walking around as a giant, they are already going to treat you differently. I'm going to be honest with you - I don't think I'd treat a giant wearing tank armor any differently than I'd treat a regular, unarmored giant.
On the other hand, the fact that it takes a long time to put on is valid, but only if you expect that to come up during play.
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Hope you have a supernaturally strong squire to help you put it on as well anyone normal couldn't life the pieces. As there is no way in heck you are going to be able to put plate armour on by yourself.
Don't forget the sacrifices that you will have to make so it never rains so you don't sink. Hmmm even at 10tons most normal soil will be a problem. 20kips / 4 square feet (for your feet) = 5 ksf if you are not moving. If moving multiply that by 5 to 10, to account for reduced contact area and impact..... Yep good luck with that. (For reference typical design values for spread footings with a factor of safety of 1.5-2 for building footings is 1.5 ksf to 5 ksf.)
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Considering there are bus-sized vehicles weighing over 400 tons when loaded, I don't see it as a major problem in all but the loosest of terrains. He IS going to damage whatever he steps on but not by nearly enough for him to sink in soil.
But yes, water and putting on the armor are serious problems - all part of the rebate of large-sized IoPs. (considering you got trouble swimming even when carrying swords or big guns, let alone armor)
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Most of those vehicles have a MUCH larger 'footprint' than a humanoid body.
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I hope the giant has immunity to heat. I imagine that he'd need it with all the friction produced by those huge pieces of metal scraping against each other, and him without the benefits of anything resembling advanced articulation techniques, powered lubrication systems, etc (all of which would fail when brought in contact with the kind of magical strength necessary to magic up such an item).
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MORTAL magic causes hexing. Other sources of magic may not encounter such difficulties.
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I hope the giant has immunity to heat. I imagine that he'd need it with all the friction produced by those huge pieces of metal scraping against each other, and him without the benefits of anything resembling advanced articulation techniques, powered lubrication systems, etc (all of which would fail when brought in contact with the kind of magical strength necessary to magic up such an item).
I don't suppose he really needs to make this an "Iron Man" powered armor suit, does he?
I believe part of the general reluctance to this idea is that the expectations have been set a bit high with characterizing it as plate mail, adding various situational bonuses, and trying to make it an Item of Power.
The Elder Gruff "Tiny" (who is statted in OW46/142 with Supernatural Toughness - providing Armor 2 - as well as Hulking Size) showed up at the train station in a wondrous suit of crystal plate armor. Mind you, neither the armor nor the "Sword as Long as a Car" are given game statistics. Also, having armor of Fairy make certainly makes such armor easier to rationalize.
But the tank armor sounds like great scenery/fluff, as does the wrecking-ball-mace. Though I may have a soft spot for it, being a veteran of "Fallout 3" and a survivor of its Supermutant Behemoths.
I do feel that the Item of Power discount includes at least some logical potential for that item to be temporarily removed, stolen, or otherwise taken out of play. I take the Sword of the Cross a a very extreme example, with all of the safeguards established in the fiction needing to be reflected in the game rules.
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Amusingly enough, the giant in question here has Supernatural Toughness with heat as a catch.
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Amusingly enough, the giant in question here has Supernatural Toughness with heat as a catch.
Ha! Nice.
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I doubt that friction heat from the armor will be nearly as hot as the fires of Muspelheim or the heart of a volcano. Those things would melt the armor along with the giant. Even if the friction heat is as bad as a house on fire (environmental hazard that attacks at +4) a giant with fantastic endurance and supernatural toughness could just sit in the fire, roll -4 all the time and still suffer no ill effects at all.
Supernatural creatures are not as squishy as human and thus don't really need the same protections and safeguards as the average human being.
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A Giant with Supernatural Toughness and a catch of Heat, on the other hand, WILL eventually be hurting.
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But enforcing realistic armour friction seems a bit pointless in a cinematic game like this one. I don't intend to do it.
Besides, extreme heat is going to be lousy catch once Summer and the fire giants get involved. I'd rather not punish it any further.
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Armour-generated friction would seem, to me, to be the product of a compel.
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My comment was meant to be more of a cross between a reality check and a throwaway joke that a serious suggestion of mechanics.
That said, I think it's a bad idea to carry the "It is what it is" aspect (little 'a') of Items of Power to too much of an extreme. The idea is to allow players to have 'for free' the bonuses that any Joe Schmoe could get by acquiring a non-supernatural, mundane item, then to allow them to pay refresh to layer a bit of something extra on top. I tend to believe that the 'mundane items' need to be something that is within the realm of reason (given the context of the game). I.e., it should be something that you might reasonably expect to find on an equipment list, assuming the game had one.
In this case, the 'mundane item' would need to be 'a suit of chainmail' (armor:2) or 'a suit of plate armor' (armor:3), with any benefits garnered from the fact that it is magically crafted from plates of tank hull and inscribed with runes and such being bought on top of that base. The fact that it's large enough to fit on a giant is flavor text. Realistic? Maybe not. But then again, if you want realism, then you need friction, too. :p
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Thirty tons on a biped with roughly human proportions. As a Geotechnical Engineer, I can provide you with all of the actual, real life implications of him walking across a large number of terrains and pavements. Heck, if anyone really wants me to, I can even post up .pdfs of my MathCAD design sheets showing the LRFD (Load Resistance Factored Design) design calculations for bearing pressure, punching shear effects and on and so forth. Then I can even kick up the ASSHTO calculations for pavement deformation for extreme loading conditions. We run those here when we permit extreme load transport over the state's highway and interstate system. I also know enough structural engineering (though I do not wish to present myself as a structural engineer for purposes of professional ethics and licensure... and the displeasure of my wife who is a professional structural engineer) to lay out all the troubles he is going have in entering most buildings.
The problem is not the 30 tons. It is the pressure generated by that 30 tons. Very common mistake, actually. There is a reason that tanks have treads and the really big heavy load trucks have lots of wheels. They serve to spread the weight of the vehicle over a larger area and, therefore, reduce the over-all ground pressure they exert.
Take your giant. I don't have his measurements, but let us say that he is three times the size of a human with the same basic proportions. That would put him around 18-20 feet tall. And, we shall be generous and give him large feet; say 3 feet long and 1 foot wide. For the record, I'm 6 feet tall, have 10 inch long feet that are 3.75 inch wide. Rounded of course. And, yes, I keep a scale and ruler next to my computer. LOL
Keep it simple and assume a rectangular shape of the foot. That makes each foot 3 square feet. He has two of them, 6 sq.ft.
30tons / 6 sq.ft. = 5 tons/sq.ft. or 5 TSF. Static; that is standing still. That is a very hefty static load and one that most soils will deform under in dry conditions. Under wet conditions, even more so. For good clay soils here in Tennessee, I will often recommend an allowable soil bearing of around 2 TSF. Now, that is allowable, meaning that it has a reduction factor (or Factor of Safety under the old ASD design methodology). So, he would be okay standing on most soils. Leave some good foot prints though that a five year old blind kid could track. On good solid rock, he'll be fine. I wouldn't get to close to any cliff faces though as they you have to start worrying about confining lateral pressures and loads. And he will cause localized slope failures on anything steeper than a 5 to 1 slope most of the time.
Moving, things get more complicated. Impact loading. One one foot. Unless he slides around everywhere somehow.
Now we are looking at a starting value of 10 TSF. That blows most soils right out and will fracture many softer shales and weathered regolith. Now, standard ASSHTO impact loading is x1.2 (off the top of my head, my code is back at my office). So at a casual walk, call it 12 TSF. Running... call it around 20 TSF. That is problematic in a big way and will require a great deal of caution on his part to maintain his own stability in moving about. 20 TSF and you could start to fracture weaker limestone. You are not going to shatter it or cause punching shear failure; but you are cracking it as you move.
Most state DOTs have a maximum limit of weight on any one tire of a vehicle of around 10,000 lbs without special permitting. It gets a LOT more complicated as you start to factor in axle lengths and loading combinations; but we'll keep it simple here. For those that want to go all out:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/weight.htm
Have fun.
But that 10,000 lbs on one tire is going to be around 10,000 lbs / 1 sq.ft. or 5 TSF. That is not a failure point for most high end pavements; but a limit based on deformation of flexible pavements (asphalt).
You'll be fine on commercial or air force pavements; though you will be causing damage unless you are careful.
Don't even bother going onto most structures. I'll ask my wife about highway bridges; as that is her specialty. But you would give a parking garage nightmares, crush an residential floors or foundations, decimate side walks and drive ways, and cause the local utilities company to have fits as you directly increase their budget for the year. Watch for culverts as well; bad. Climbing slopes is going to be challenging as the soils are likely to deform under your feet as you climb up. Think walking up sand dunes; but with normal soils. This is due to lacking that lateral capacity I mentioned above allowing for the soil to deform laterally more rapidly without compaction.
If anyone wants more, just ask.
OR, ignore it all and have fun with it. I love giant robot/mecha stuff. ;D
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Talked with the wife over lunch at the pub. Yea, you armored giant needs to avoid bridges. Even interstate bridges. If he walked (WALKED) and made sure that he kept his feet directly over the bridge beams themselves, he might make it across. But it would cause enough damage to the structure that it would most likely have to be replaced. If he went off the beams, he would punch right through the pavement structure and bridge decking. Think about walking through the attic and stepping off the wood joists... save you weight 400lbs. If he ran or moved to carelessly... he's not making it. And smaller municipal bridges are toast.
Additionally, walking through an urban area is going to be "interesting". He will be rupturing any underground utility lines he steps to near. Sewer, water, gas... are all going to rupture depending on how deep they are buried.
Also, if you want to get more technical, you can take into account the actual mechanics of walking and the fact that when you walk/run, your foot rolls and, therefore, you are not getting the full area of the foot in contact with the ground as you move. So, up on the ball of a foot as you walk with the 1.2 impact loading... 36 TSF. CRAP!!! Running, 60 TSF!!! You are in danger failing anything below solid igneous bed rock at this point. You would be leaving dented craters in Limestone bed rock. Beware karst terrain.
To give some comparison for you non-engineering folks. The M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank has a stated ground pressure of 15.4 PSI (Pounds per square inch). Converted, that is around 1.1 TSF. As per ASSHTO, DOD, Federal Highways and all the State DOTs, an Abrams tank (or the HETs that can transport them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Equipment_Transport_System#M1070.2FM1000) can only cross a bridge if it is the only vehicle on the bridge. One at a time, no other traffic. You're boy is exceeding the ground pressure of the M1 tank series by a significant amount.
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Lol, and that Kommisar is why I rarely if ever go in to details about engineering (structural here) since it gets way too long and you always lose people. Maybe not from the math, which is generally fairly simple, but when you start explaining 90% of the time the eyes always glaze over.
But really 30 tons is way off. Elephants weight 10,000-12,000lbs and am sure that giants are typically much less. Also need to remember regardless on how strong you are mass makes a difference. It would be infeasible for a biped that only weighs 10,000lbs to use much more than 5,000lbs of armor just from a balance standpoint. Sure they could carry more, but move even semi-efficiently? Not so much.
Actually questions like this is why I really don't like gaming with most science/physics masters and phd students any more ;D. No doubt that they are extremely intelligent, but they typically have no experiance and very little common sense yet they know EVERYTHING. Ofcourse forgive me for generalizing.
Fyi, your 1.2 impact factor is correct (it's also used on bridge cranes and others), however those are for tire loads over flat surfaces. It should be MUCH higher for instances when someone is running or even walking due to the motion. But by the same token you can just throw out the safety factors as which range from 1.5-3 depending on the failure conditions.
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Well, the 30 tons wasn't my number. I just went with what the OP came up with. ;D I really didn't feel like specing out the weight of a giant and the armor he could reasonable wear/use. For a 18ft giant... I would probably stick with something in the 10 to 12 thousand pound realm, like you. So, 15,000 lbs with armor sounds reasonable; which is 7.5 tons.
He's still going to have fun moving around civilized areas with his approximate 9 TSF walking ground pressure. A main battle tank is 1.1 TSF for those that didn't read above. And elephant exerts (standing on all 4 feet) approximately 5.5 lbs/sq.in. or about 0.34 TSF. They have 4 big feet.
Mind you all of this could be rendered moot by the physiological limits of the human body's shape. But I don't think that should stop us. ;)
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Yep, elephants have 4 big round flat feet. ;D
Imo only the Rule of Consistancy is > than the Rule of Cool for rpgs, as you cannot have a believable world where things don't operate according to "mostly unchanging" guidelines. Besides the fact the character defined as a giant which means the player wants to have (or deal with) collateral damage. Main thing is soak it for all it's worth, lol.
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An 18 ft giant weighs 27 times as a 6ft man of the same build, IF giants are about as dense as humans. Since giants are kinda bulky, let's go for a 200 pound base. That's 5400 pounds. If giants are really bulky and/or denser than humans, we could go with twice that much. As for the armor, we are talking a 55 pound plate (as in 16th century platemail) for a human, or around 1500 pounds. Now, the armor would be made of tungsten and would be twice as thick as normal giant-sized platemail, so we're looking at 9000 pounds. So we are looking at 14400 pounds for a heavily armored giant. The plate would be no more than an inch thick and would be the equivalent of 3 inches of steel in both toughness and weight.
That's for realistic numbers though, not a giant wearing actual tank armor.
PS: substantially heavy armor evenly distributed could even help the giant apply his supernatural/mythic strength by helping his balance when lifting really big things.
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you know what defeats tanks? Molotov Cocktails. Just saying
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Probably 1920s tanks. Maybe, if you're lucky, 1940s tanks. Modern main battle tanks have armor equivalents from 400mm to 1100mm of RHA steel, nearly 10 times as much as that of their WWI-WWII equivalents. Unless you throw the Molotov Cocktail down an open hatch, you aren't burning one.
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The most effective use of a molotov cocktail against a modern main battle tank is not to pit it against the armour at all, but to target it for the tank's primary air intake. That does, of course, assume that the tank ISN'T being driven around with open hatches.
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Isn't this why clever designers would put the air intake underneath the tank? Extra filtering needed against the dust but it avoids shenanigans.
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yeah, but the air intake on this giant is his head :D
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Why do you people know so much about tanks, anyway?
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Well, technically, my familiarity is with LAVs, but for this, I figured it was close enough...
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I did a course on alloys and their implementation in industry a couple years back. I am also a weapons nut (as in hobby, not actual job). Researching military equipment seemed like a fun way to do a couple of assignments in that course.
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Why do you people know so much about tanks, anyway?
(http://www.topsecretwriters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/classified.gif)
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Grew up in the US Army. My father and 2 uncles were all career. Grandfather was a WWII 105mm battery commander. So, a youth spent in and around places like Fort Stuart GA (Back when it was home of the 24th Mech ID). Some kids learn to change a car's oil from their dad... I learned a set of much less practical (in terms of civilian life at least) skills. Not many sixth graders have a basic understanding of how to arm, target and fire a Stinger AA missile. ;D Combine that with a degree in engineering and away we go.
Oh, and if you REALLY want to get me in my element, then we'll discuss military equipment of the Second World War. :D
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My GM had a fight where the weight of the dragon falling from the sky with a pc on top caused the dragon to fall through the road into the the sewer beaneath. Would an armored giant weigh enough to fall through the road if a sewer was built bellow?
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My GM had a fight where the weight of the dragon falling from the sky with a pc on top caused the dragon to fall through the road into the the sewer beaneath. Would an armored giant weigh enough to fall through the road if a sewer was built bellow?
IS the giant flying?
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IS the giant flying?
That is a good question, probably not.
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Depends on the roadway (type of road) and the size and type of the sewer system. Not all roads are created equally with differing standards for subgrade, sub-base, and the physical pavement structure as well as different pavement mixes. Likewise, most cities don't really have the type of sewer system that one can "fall into". New York, Chicago, London, Paris... in areas. Nashville, Atlanta and the like... nope. You'll hit some large pipes if you hit the mains; but those are nothing anyone is going to be walking through. Even the storm water systems.
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Actually, it would depend on whether or not the Giant has a Fate-Point to buy off the compel :-P