ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: EdgeOfDreams on March 17, 2011, 06:08:20 PM
-
So, after a long time playing at Submerged level with a group of combat-junkies, I find myself running a game at Feet In The Water for a smaller group that hasn't min-max'ed their characters. Thus, a fight against a single Goblin with the stats found in Our World felt like a boss fight.
What are some good combat opponents for these kinds of low-power characters? I know I can design stuff based on the book's suggestions, but I'd appreciate some examples of stuff that's already statted out in Our World.
-
How about Hellhounds or single RCVs?
-
A single ghoul would be good. Not only a possibly tough fight, but you have bodies piling up from its feeding habits, so they can bring in supporters to help them in the fight. It also gives a good bit of story if you want, letting them track down the deaths, find 'parts', put things together, and otherwise investigate the issue.
-
Rogue pixie.
Not much of a threat combat wise but still an interesting enemy to build a story around. Tracking down a crazed pixie that's running around messing with people by using various illusions would make for more of a thinking man's game and would also really drive home the whole nasty side of the fey by showing that even the cutest and least threatening of them can be extremely vile.
-
Normal humans: thugs, mercenaries, gang members. Have compelled or enslaved mortals be the opening wave of some supernatural threat.
-
If I ever drop to negative Sanity and run a play by post on the boards, it would be at the 6-refresh level.
There's a lot of challenge and character development inherent in a low-powered campaign, as well as room for growth.
-
You must have a very low opinion of my Sanity: I run a play by post game at the 18 refresh level.
Anyway, I agree with devonapple (as usual). I'd mostly use mortals in that situation. Mortal enemies were sort of neglected in OW, but they aren't hard to make for yourself.
Mundane animals work too. An elephant would be a great boss fight for a low-powered group, in my humble opinion.
-
Mundane animals work too. An elephant would be a great boss fight for a low-powered group, in my humble opinion.
Ah, an adventure similar to "Welcome to the Jungle"!
-
If I ever drop to negative Sanity and run a play by post on the boards, it would be at the 6-refresh level.
There's a lot of challenge and character development inherent in a low-powered campaign, as well as room for growth.
When the original Hunter came out my GM ran an excellent game with it despite its more hokey bits. Our party was completely overshadowed by the things we were hunting (mostly strange Fae that he made up himself and a few Vamps) since we all made truly ordinary mortals who had recieved the call. My character might have been the most combat oriented but he was just a middle aged construction worker from Jersey who had been in the National Guard when he was a kid so that isn't saying much. It made us all work together to an extent I have rarely seen in a game because otherwise we were toast and we knew it.
-
Normal humans: thugs, mercenaries, gang members. Have compelled or enslaved mortals be the opening wave of some supernatural threat.
Agreed. I think a lot of people discount how great a mortal can be as a villain. It gives the whole thing a much more shaky moral ground. It's easier to slay some slavering monster, but what do you do when it's a person, who may not have evil goals so to speak. Also mortals can be just as supernatural as any of your PCs. It would totally be possible to create a great focused practitioner/changeling/whampire virgin using 6 refresh, and a lot of your villains are going to be more anyway (to present a challenge to a group of PCs).
-
Make/use whatever you want, adjust the stats so that it's primary offense and defense (athletics, weapon, w/e) are on par with the average for your party, and don't run it with full consequences. (Read over the section on opponent importance to the story, where it talks about what consequences an enemy might take at what levels).
In high powered campaigns, you can actually blow through the entire consequence scale pretty quickly. When someone has a 14 targeting roll, exceeds their opponent's defense by 10-ish, and then rolls like 24 damage into stress - well consequence boxes kind of go poof.
But when you're doing your best to pump out a couple of spells with a targeting roll that might not even hit, the difference between an opponent with one mild consequence or an opponent with even just one mild and one moderate can literally swing the fight.
The only thing you really need to avoid is something that characters might not have access to defeating, like ghosts, creatures weak only to earth magic (none in the books, but still, it'd be tough), and so on.
Also, if they are having a really tough time, then try running a few non-combat scenes where their aspects can earn them some fate points before a battle. Most wizards go into a battle with few fate points, and a higher level wizard makes up for this by defaulting to magical defenses (the standard one enchanted item block, one enchanted item armor set up)... but at lower refresh, your spellcasters are probably burning refresh and focus items just to do their primary function at a decent capacity. So they are truly glass cannons - probably really no good defense skill, no fate points, and no magic protection. Walking into a fight with even 2 more fate points could swing the battle for them.
-
Most wizards go into a battle with few fate points....
I find it interesting that you seem to have assumed my players are casters. In fact, this low-power group is one pure mortal (with Guns 4 and stunts), one Red Court Infected (Inhuman Speed and not much else), and one Minor Talent (with The Sight and Psychometry). By comparison, my usual high-power group had one Fire Mage, one Were-bear, one pure mortal gun-nut, and one true believer who mostly supported us with maneuvers and healing (DM let him grant others temporary Inhuman Recovery on a limited basis as "Faith Healing").
-
You must have a very low opinion of my Sanity: I run a play by post game at the 18 refresh level.
Anyway, I agree with devonapple (as usual). I'd mostly use mortals in that situation. Mortal enemies were sort of neglected in OW, but they aren't hard to make for yourself.
Mundane animals work too. An elephant would be a great boss fight for a low-powered group, in my humble opinion.
I have a low opinion of the sanity of ANY gamemaster, myself included... ;)
It's more the fact that I want to PLAY the game, not just run it. Unfortunately, I seem to be the only one in my group who's willing to gm...
-
If the group is made up minor talents, changelings, and others with strange powers or an odd heritage, then a mundane who wants to use makes the perfect opponent.
Say a mafia soldier or crew chief who wants to use them in various ways - basically a very low level version of a wannabee Marcone pressuring someone without much power. Maybe he even wants them to do things that they can't do. "What do ya mean you can't do that? I've seen ya do other stuff to do this now."
If they are all or mostly normal humans, then a low level monster is good. A single fairy terrorizing the area - or just existing and when they stumble over that they think it's something evil. Imagine a group trying to deal with Toot-toot from Stormfront - he might not even notice them going after him, and if they wait too long between attempts then he might forget they were going after him.
Another good opponent is a spider type villain - one that has all sorts of influence but is next to useless in a fight.
Whatever the opponent, having mundane authorities involved can really complicate things in a fun way. The mafia guy is leaning on them? Then the cops from the OC division (or even that beat cop trying to make OC) might take a look at them. The PCs are wandering around with makeshift iron weapons to deal with the fairy? If someone notices them and calls the cops then they'll have to explain what they're doing.
Richard
-
Why not design something submerged level that in essence COULDNT combat the characters in a physical sense?
I have an idea for a technology spirit, basically the first of its kind that infects people through hypnotic screensavers. The people gather items for an eventual ritual the spirit wants to performed to bring it fully into the world. Its thralls are pure mortal so weak enough to be combated by low levels. But the force behind them is still something you'd put in a submerged game with functional physical immunity and such.
-
It would depend on the type of campaign you are working on:
Scions do not always have to be as powerful as they appear and often times lesser scions are dangerous but not as much as some creatures.
If you want something more powerful than mortals why not armed or enhanced mortals? Give them some one shot enchanted weapons and potions and you have a dangerous gang outfitted with an unnatural edge or a group of gangsters who hire out a ritualist.
If all else fails make up some creature based on the powers you want to use. Or the reverse works and find a monster than pick appropriate stats it.
-
I find it interesting that you seem to have assumed my players are casters. In fact, this low-power group is one pure mortal (with Guns 4 and stunts), one Red Court Infected (Inhuman Speed and not much else), and one Minor Talent (with The Sight and Psychometry). By comparison, my usual high-power group had one Fire Mage, one Were-bear, one pure mortal gun-nut, and one true believer who mostly supported us with maneuvers and healing (DM let him grant others temporary Inhuman Recovery on a limited basis as "Faith Healing").
Not really an assumption, just covering another possible aspect of low-power play. By "your spellcasters" I simply mean "any spellcasters in the party". Normally, the spellcaster starting a battle with one fate point, next to his comrade pure-mortal's three to five, isn't as big a deal when the caster has a good magical defense. But in shallower water games, I've seen this bite casters because they lack those defenses.
As for your specific group, without a mage or some good grenades, they will have some trouble when outnumbered. Are these the same players as your high power group, or equally savy in terms of declarations, maneuvers, ect?
It could simply be that the tactics that work well in your higher power group, with a completely different group of character types, won't work with the new characters.
-
Really anything would work, just rachet down the skill level of the bad guy. It seems to me the refresh cost is not a good indicator of how powerful the baddie is. It's the skill level that does the most harm, IMO.
So you could take a demon, but make it a minor demon, with lower skills.
I also made some gremlins(not the movie kind) that have their higher skills in craftsmanship, but made them diminutive sized. That keeps them fairly squishy, but then added the concept of "Get'em boys!" so that way the little guys can gang up if they need to for a bonus.