ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Hal on March 07, 2011, 03:04:18 PM
-
I couldn't find this in the books, and I couldn't find this addressed on the forums after a basic search . . . a little help?
True Shapeshifting says you can transform into inanimate objects. I can't find anything about sensory abilities when transformed as such, though. Since chairs have neither eyes nor ears, do we say that you're unaware of your surroundings while transformed thusly? Or do we handwave it as supernatural and thus you get your normal senses as a decorative plant?
Something in between? Or did I just miss a sentence explaining it in the rules?
-
Personally I'd say that no, a character who shapeshifts into an inanimate form would not have any ability to sense its environment unless it also purchases the Supernatural Sense (YS 165) power with Modular Abilities (YS 177).
-
My take on this is that while you may not have normal senses you should certainly have supernatural senses. At the very least if you had some brains you'd make sure you built some sensory organs into your inanimate form, just disguise them as graven images or whatnot...8)
But the real question is, if you could turn yourself into furniture, what kind of furniture? Personally I might go for a door, then I can also be ajar on occasion!
I'd expect that with a high degree of craftsmanship and a specialty in furniture design you could probably make more detailed and classic furniture. Hrm, come to think of it could you transform yourself into an entire room? or a Hallway? Maybe a dining room set and make a simulacrum of yourself sitting there so you can hold a conversation while simultaneously getting a look under that hot chicks skirts...on the other hand you'd be running the risk being sat on by some random fat and foul-smelling troll...8)
-
Well, it does say in Hulking Size that it is for beings who are larger than human sized, up to the size of a house, so I'd say you can probably be a house.
You'd better prioritize Craftsmanship in your new skill list if you want to fool anyone though, and you'll probably need some might if you want to have many people walking around in you.
Now I have an idea for a shapeshifting supernatural predator that looks like a reasonably priced model home.
-
Or indeed becoming a large Aspidistra and demanding people say Gronda Gronda or you squirt water at them...
But that might a bit of an oblique reference if you are not English and pushing 40
So http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/adventuregame/index.shtml
Still as a method of infiltration and spying it has potential.
No one ever suspect the pot plant of being the murderer!
-
The Gazebo did it!
OR if you want to go with the Classics; The Gingerbread House....that eats you!
-
Suddenly all those reports of servicemen killed by coke machines take on a whole new light....
-
In fiction, one generally does not see shapechangers shifting to inanimate objects which also happen to be deaf, dumb and blind. So there isn't much fictional support for charging extra.
Also, in most point-based RPGs, players are not required to buy any extra senses when they buy such shapeshifting powers for their characters. Unless one can think of other RPGs which *do* insist that, I feel that there is insufficient RPG precedent for charging extra.
For these two reasons, I am disinclined to insist on extra senses for someone changing shape into an object.
As for Crafstmanship, that is a brilliant idea - I am wondering if it needs to be a Stunt though, or just a house rule for inanimate objects.
At the least, I would imagine Craftsmanship could Modify the Deceit check. There has to be *some* minimal amount of Deceit involved in pretending to be an object, if for no other reason than the fact that one has to remain perfectly still and not flinch when someone bumps into you (or carves initials in you, fills you with silverware, sprays you with Lemon Pledge, etc), and otherwise "act" like a door/box/credenza/etc.
Maybe use a Craftsmanship roll for people perceiving you in a cursory manner, but Deceit for actual attempts to penetrate your disguise.
-
The reason I'd want the character to take Supernatural Sense is that it's a sense that the Credenza has no right possessing. On the other hand, if the character turned into a fruit bat I would not charge him for flight or echolocation, since those are things that a bat can do normally.
-
Maybe a Stunt that allows the character to sue Craftsmanship as Deceit?
Anything that can turn themselves into an inanimate object should retain their senses by default, despite their new forms they are still a living creature, maybe undead but you get the idea. I might impose some aspects on them as a result of the new form; "Easily Stained", "Dust Magnet", "Sedentary Lifestyle" etc...
Does lead to some interesting ideas; what if the Amityville House was actually a creature that got tricked into turning into a House then locked in that form? Maybe a demon? A take on the old "If you keep making faces your face will freeze like that!" saying...8)
-
The reason I'd want the character to take Supernatural Sense is that it's a sense that the Credenza has no right possessing.
This is magic. The shapeshifter has no right to be a credenza, either.
On the other hand, if the character turned into a fruit bat I would not charge him for flight or echolocation, since those are things that a bat can do normally.
Characters with True Shapeshifting are really good at disguising, but while they are not obligated to take Modular Abilities, that power build is recommended, which I take to mean that if you want to take any "Creature Features, certain Minor Abilities (page 169), Speed (page 178), Strength (page 183), and Toughness (page 184)," then you need Modular Abilities. If True Shapeshifting had the benefits of Modular Abilities, it would have been in the power description, not in the "Options" section: "Options: None, but the Modular Abilities power (above) is recommended." (YS 177).
About the only thing True Shapeshifting guarantees is a bonus to Deceit/Stealth checks, and the "Skill Shuffle" ability from the Beast Change power. True Shapeshifting is essentially an enhanced Beast Change power.
The shapeshifter in this case *should* be spending Refresh to buy Echoes of the Beast to get the echolocation, Fly to be able to fly, and Diminutive Size to be the size of a Fruitbat.
That said, if a GM is generously granting 4 Refresh worth of powers for free, and not obligating a True Shapeshifter to also take Modular Abilities to power their new forms, then yes: I'd happily take the limitation of needing to pay 1 Refresh for a credenza-legal Supernatural sense, in order to get all those other powers for free when I transform into a Minotaur (or perhaps an Elephant), add in Hulking Size, Supernatural Strength, etc., all without needing to pay for them.
-
I allways think that within reason true shapeshifting should include creature features for 4 refresh, if you transform into something with wings you should have wings and dito with claws and for 4 refresh +2 for modular abilities at submerged level you only get three refresh worth of modular abilities on which you would probably at least a point off on creature features.
-
I'd give you Hulking Size for the Elephant, but not Supernatural Might. Yeah, elephants can move a lot of weight, but no more than their size would indicate. The Might powers, IMO, are reserved for things that are stronger than simple physical muscle and sinew can account for. As for a Minotaur? So you have a human body with a bull's head, I'd give you claws at best.
The reason I'd allow the bat to have echolocation and flight is that, they have a bat's options for dealing with problems. Those options are, as far as I can tell, "fly away" or "crap on it."
-
The reason I'd allow the bat to have echolocation and flight is that, they have a bat's options for dealing with problems. Those options are, as far as I can tell, "fly away" or "crap on it."
That's not essentially true. The unmentioned third option is that it can change shape into something else that can deal with this problem more effectively, which is one of the reasons this is already so powerful without tacking on free powers. Being able to shuffle one's skills in essentially any way one wishes has a great impact on any scenario, and I feel this plot agency is being seriously undervalued.
-
Now I want to play in a game as a were-house...
-
Now I want to play in a game as a were-house...
Reminds me of the episode of "Invader Zim" when GIR's "mind" got uploaded to Zim's house AI, and the whole house went on walkabout looking for tacos.
-
I suppose with true Shapshifting you could play a giant robot (in disguise).
-
I suppose with true Shapshifting you could play a giant robot (in disguise).
Oooh! What powers could a True Shapeshifter character get for free as a Giant Robot?
-
That could be a boring game Bruce...
"So what are you doing now?"
"Devaluing myself before the tax Assessor gets here..."
I am of the thought that true Shapeshifting should really have Modular Abilities built-in; i.e. you can add more points to it to allow custom alterations of form. The base cost would be kind of Prohibitive as stacked they would be a total of [-6]! But with automatic Skill Shuffle and tack on a few other abilities (HUman Form and/or Item of Power?) you might be able to squeeze a few other points into it.
Now for fun you could have a version that limits you to one category; Chairs only, Lamps only etc...add on "Human Form; Uncontrollable" so the character turns into different types of Chairs when Scared...8)
-
oooh...how about a House-Were? A Possessed house that likes to turn into people and go walking around?
-
Oooh! What powers could a True Shapeshifter character get for free as a Giant Robot?
Magitec Missiles from beyond infinity.
-
I am of the thought that true Shapeshifting should really have Modular Abilities built-in; i.e. you can add more points to it to allow custom alterations of form. The base cost would be kind of Prohibitive as stacked they would be a total of [-6]! But with automatic Skill Shuffle and tack on a few other abilities (HUman Form and/or Item of Power?) you might be able to squeeze a few other points into it.
Now for fun you could have a version that limits you to one category; Chairs only, Lamps only etc...add on "Human Form; Uncontrollable" so the character turns into different types of Chairs when Scared...8)
My understanding of True Shapeshifting was that the base ability got you form, not function; to get the abilities, you had to put a minimum of three points into Modular Abilities, 2 + whatever ability you want to use. So, at 3 points of modular abilities, you could change forms to take advantage of 1 refresh abilities like Claws or Supernatural Senses.
In any case, one of my players took True Shapeshifting, and I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with it. Let's say he wants to spy on someone and he turns into a chair . . . is he aware of the person, or is it more like a turtle hiding in its shell? Will getting smacked cause him to take stress? Revert to his default form? Will someone wonder why the chair started bleeding?
-
In any case, one of my players took True Shapeshifting, and I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with it. Let's say he wants to spy on someone and he turns into a chair . . . is he aware of the person, or is it more like a turtle hiding in its shell? Will getting smacked cause him to take stress? Revert to his default form? Will someone wonder why the chair started bleeding?
In my opinion:
1) the Shapeshifter would be able to make normal Alertness/Investigation rolls in its form
2) getting smacked will deal physical stress but not force a shapechange
2b) if the Shapeshifter is being smacked because someone is trying to deduce if it is a shapeshifter, then I would make it a contested roll, like Might/Weapons/Fists versus the Shapeshifter's Deceit (+4 per the True Shapeshifting Power, modified however else you want)
3) once the Shapeshifter starts taking consequences, I would make it start making rolls to maintain the deception and not show bleeding or whatever else made sense
4) the Shapeshifter probably won't revert to normal until a) it is Taken Out or Concedes, or b) if someone manages to bully or trick it into giving itself away
-
But being a were-house could be the most awesome support character ever!
Where do the bad guys store their illicit goods? In a were-house.
Where does the planning for dastardly deeds take place? In a were-house.
Often, where do a lot of the battles take place? In a were-house.
With a high Resources and Contacts to know demolition firms, a were-house could entrap so many villains...
-
But being a were-house could be the most awesome support character ever!
Where do the bad guys store their illicit goods? In a were-house.
Where does the planning for dastardly deeds take place? In a were-house.
Often, where do a lot of the battles take place? In a were-house.
With a high Resources and Contacts to know demolition firms, a were-house could entrap so many villains...
Ai ya, Mental Stress! Third Law! Third Law! I Concede. ;)
-
Hmmm a House-Were could explain Baba-Yagas house...one explanation anyway...8)
-
There have been some short stories about wizards who change shape - then are trapped that way because they can't say the word to change themselves back...
Of course in DV, they could get away with just thinking the word (and probably taking a consequence because they can't tag "used the magic word"). So if the wizard turns himself into a credenza that can think then he'll be able to change himself back.
Richard
-
Another 'issue' with the house-were, when he changes into a human- where does all the furniture go?
(The Tv is playing th south park episode where Cartman eats the fake gold and ..errr.. passes it in great pain)
-
There have been some short stories about wizards who change shape - then are trapped that way because they can't say the word to change themselves back...
I'll buy that. Though I would argue that such peccadilloes are intended to serve as cautionary tales with a moral/behavioral message about the importance of thinking things through, or how power is not always everything. That sort of a "gotcha" move in DFRPG is more appropriate as an Aspect Compel for shoddy spellcasting than a feature of the power itself.
-
Another 'issue' with the house-were, when he changes into a human- where does all the furniture go?
Why it transforms into clothing as desired of course! The bigger the house the more fashion choices are available. Also makes for a handy mobile home!