ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: bibliophile20 on February 10, 2011, 11:07:31 PM
-
I have a warlock NPC in my game that's, to put it bluntly, a self-modification artiste; one of his aspects is "I Have A Heart--It's Just Not Where You Expect It To Be". Him being something of a transhumanist and a trained anatomist to boot, I had an interesting little realization when playing with his mindset: I see no reason why he wouldn't have modified his own body to eliminate all of the little vestigial organs and compromises of evolution--things like the backwards retina, the appendix, certain arteries and veins that are poorly routed, things like that. He's still human... genetically. But his physiology has been intelligently redesigned.
Obviously, his skills reflect this: his Alertness and Investigation are higher than they would be, thanks to the increased visual acuity, his Endurance and Athletics are boosted thanks to the better designed anatomy, and so forth.
So now I'm just trying to decide if that aspect is sufficient to cover everything else or if I need to build a custom stunt or power to cover his modifications. I figure I can compel/invoke the aspect in combat, especially melee combat, as his body simply doesn't work exactly like everyone else's does anymore; alot like Mal in Serenity, "that neural cluster... had it moved".
Thoughts?
-
If the goal is to subvert attempts to take advantage of assumed similarities between his body and normal humans, I think it sounds like a Compel/Invoke Aspect situation. An attack may be less successful (+2 to the dodge check) because things aren't in a vulnerable place anymore.
If the goal is to "improve" his body, then you may start taking things like Inhuman Toughness because you've improved on the frailties of mortal human bodies. Maybe it only protects against attacks which rely on some precision, but ignores gross effects like landslides, full-body squeezes, crushing, etc.
But if this is an NPC, you can justify any number of supernatural abilities as self-improvement. Claws, Toughness and Recovery powers, and more.
-
You stand a risk with heavy modifying of the body, for one I cannot think of way of personally modifying yourself with magic which wouldn’t put you through tremendous amounts of pain as your body does things nobody should ever do. There is also the fact that you are only human with flawed finite knowledge of the body and worse DNA, who knows what will happen to your modifications when their cells reproduce, what this means is that GM could negatively compel your ‘modified aspect’ with stuff like ‘you needed that to heal’ or magically upgraded cancer. Otherwise inhuman powers make sense for upgrades also on the positive side enjoy role-playing losing your humanity as you become something ‘just better’.
-
The Strength, Speed, and Toughness powers would be appropriate, I think at the Inhuman level, but what do you think about using Demonic Co-Pilot to represent a certain level of imperfections in the enhancement process? Get a +1 on Endurance, Might, Athletics, maybe Alertness, but also take stress to represent the wear and tear of operating at such a supercharged level?
I dunno, just a suggestion.
-
You stand a risk with heavy modifying of the body, for one I cannot think of way of personally modifying yourself with magic which wouldn’t put you through tremendous amounts of pain as your body does things nobody should ever do. There is also the fact that you are only human with flawed finite knowledge of the body and worse DNA, who knows what will happen to your modifications when their cells reproduce, what this means is that GM could negatively compel your ‘modified aspect’ with stuff like ‘you needed that to heal’ or magically upgraded cancer. Otherwise inhuman powers make sense for upgrades also on the positive side enjoy role-playing losing your humanity as you become something ‘just better’.
That's the thing - this is an NPC, and I think he's going for something like Dr. Kroener from "Hellboy," I assume he has access to infernal powers which are all too willing to help him out with his "improvements."
Also, there are folks like Injun Joe who have clearly developed the ability to change shapes adeptly. Just whipping up a ritual because you want eyes in the back of your head IS a traumatic and terrifying thing to do to oneself. But with time and practice, many unimaginable things are possible and potentially safe - it's just that certain things need a really strong narrative justification, like time, motivation, talent, unimaginable amounts of Refresh to spend, etc.
If this is a good guy about the same age and power as the PCs, then yes, bitterpill has a solid point about the consequences.
-
Very, very, very bad guy, who sees absolutely nothing wrong with "helping" people who fall into his clutches; as he sees it, he's helping them achieve their true potential!
-
LOL
I have a very similar NPC in my current game. He is an old (and old-school) associate/contemporary of Kemmler and was connected to Nazi eugenics work during World War II. Well, if one wants to be technical, the Nazi SS was tied to him. Definitely going with some of my favorite and beloved Hellboy inspirations here. ;D
He has not appeared in the game yet and I am still working up his final sheet, but he is a heavy weight. Scary. He has made infernal pacts and deals, altered his own body as well as those of animals and other humans to create henchmen and minions. He's a full wizard packing 3 lawbreaker refinements (stacking!), and has Inhuman Strength, Toughness, Recovery and Speed.
He has all of this, but it is the result of over a century of focused work and thousands of experiments on living humans and a horde of Hell's top consultants (the best human souls can buy).
The answer to your question Bibliophile is: How powerful do you want this NPC villain to be?
Some aspects and skill boosts work well if he has only made some minor modifications. It works well on many levels and allows for a more subtle use of the warlock. Such as interesting concessions if the PCs best him or even justification for interesting or abnormal consequences. And, yes, Compels and Invokes. You get that without him becoming a complete monster in his own right.
My guy, with all his powers and such is a real monster. But, that works for my game and the level of my players.
-
...what do you think about using Demonic Co-Pilot to represent a certain level of imperfections in the enhancement process?
That's... pretty clever. I think I may have dismissed such an approach for a different proposal, but reskinning Demonic Co-Pilot this way suddenly makes some sort of sense.
-
That's... pretty clever. I think I may have dismissed such an approach for a different proposal, but reskinning Demonic Co-Pilot this way suddenly makes some sort of sense.
Thanks! I'm also considering upgraded versions of the power to represent other such stressful supercharging powers.
-
First thought: The appendix is not a vestigial organ, it plays a non-trivial role in the immune system.
Second thought: Redoing the eyes and some artery/vein work probably wouldn't make any sort of game difference, but they'd be solid improvements. Trying to redo or eliminate organs would be quite difficult, however...there's a lot we still don't understand -- the now outdated thought that the appendix is a vestigial organ is an example of that
Third thought: If you have any female PCs, would be funny* if he did some minor work and then also moved the birth canal so they gave birth more like a c-section. That would be a flat-out improvement. Of course, he might start experimenting with other changes after that.
Hmm, if he's trying to help, then I think it would be good to have him modify people so that they are BETTER at something they love to do. He kidnaps a construction worker, and they get inhuman strength and toughness to help them out on the job. He kidnaps an electrician, and they get the ability to sense electrical currents. Someone with a deformity gets that deformity removed and has some other improvements. I think it would be good for the first several people be genuinely better for the experience (though perhaps they have a couple oddities like that moved birth canal that mark them as not being normal). As the corrupting effects of using magic to modify people grow larger, he starts outright experimenting on people as he loses sight of his original goals. He should be a doctor who specialized in something related to this and learned about magic somehow. He saw magic as a way to compensate for our current shortcomings in medicine, but he didn't know the consequences of breaking a Law.
Anyhow, I see this guy as more interesting as a tragic figure.
*Not sure what that says about me.
-
I am reminded of "Burn the Earth" by Dethklok:
"You're diseased
Medical experiments took away your human life
For a fee
Just a student with no money
Grabbed a flyer, Paid the price
Sharp injection - Brain inspection
Pulsing anger - Mutant rancor
...
There's nothing to save - you're my slave
Burn the Earth
For minimum wage"
-
If the goal is to subvert attempts to take advantage of assumed similarities between his body and normal humans, I think it sounds like a Compel/Invoke Aspect situation. An attack may be less successful (+2 to the dodge check) because things aren't in a vulnerable place anymore.
If the goal is to "improve" his body, then you may start taking things like Inhuman Toughness because you've improved on the frailties of mortal human bodies. Maybe it only protects against attacks which rely on some precision, but ignores gross effects like landslides, full-body squeezes, crushing, etc.
But if this is an NPC, you can justify any number of supernatural abilities as self-improvement. Claws, Toughness and Recovery powers, and more.
This seems the most viable way to go about it to me.
I think that stunts would probably give a lot of the effects you describe too.
For instance, stunts cancelling out other stunts could be used. Like, "Not where you think it is!" could in effect be used to cancel out any aiming tags placed on the character.
-
What would be the catch of steel mesh implants or exoskeleton Armour or would you treat such upgrades as physical armour rather than a power?
-
Third thought: If you have any female PCs, would be funny* if he did some minor work and then also moved the birth canal so they gave birth more like a c-section. That would be a flat-out improvement. Of course, he might start experimenting with other changes after that.
I have two thoughts about this.
First, don't do this to a PC. Involuntary changes to reproductive organs is super close to rape, and that's one thing to avoid in your games at all costs. Seriously.
Second, that'd be an amazing improvement. Human children are essentially born several months before they should be so that their heads don't kill their mother during birth. It's one of the trade-offs of having a proportionally large brain for our size combined with bipedalism. If there were a different exit from the womb, pregnancy could last several months longer, which would have an amazingly positive impact on the newborn. The result would be vastly reduced infant mortality and probably a sizeable jump in physical and cognitive development.
-
Well, looking over the comments, this guy is still very much in the "larval" stage compared to the NPC Kommisar has been outlining. He's still young--about Dresden's age--and is taking his advancement slow and steady, often testing out and refining improvements on hapless victims before applying them to himself.
The PCs have actually tussled with him before, where he was one of the secondary warlocks in a cabal that the PCs had to deal with; they ended up not being as thorough as they should have been, being somewhat distracted by the horde of demons that the leader had summoned before they arrived, leaving him only mostly dead.
His primary contribution to that battle, actually, was to have engaged in some fast and crude--meatball level--augmentation of some of the cabal's minions, using the biomass of some dead minions as material or grafts, and gave them bone spurs (Claws) and dermal armor (Inhuman Toughness). So, when the PCs came back to kill or be killed, they found that the minions were a little tougher this time around.
At present, he's in the employ of a local mob boss, who is more than happy to leave him to his research so long as he helps produce some designer drugs and occasionally improve some of his men with some of the Inhuman tier abilities.
Here are his current stats as of comments from this thread; he's not the Big Bad, or even the Dragon, so he's not that incredibly nasty; he's more the bad penny that the PCs can't get rid of.
High Concept:
Biomantic Flesh Artist
Trouble:
The Things I Could Do With You
Other Aspects
Freakish Form
The Mind Is A Plaything Of The Body
I Have A Heart—It’s Just Not Where You Expect It To Be
Lamarck Was Right
Unashamed
Skills:
Great (+4): Scholarship, Conviction, Discipline, Endurance
Good (+3): Craftsmanship, Lore, Alertness, Intimidation
Fair (+2): Athletics, Investigation, Presence, Rapport
Average (+1): Empathy, Deceit, Contacts, Fists
Stunts:
Flesh Artiste: You know the human body; how to mark it, how to change it, how to alter it and how to best be about it. Gain a +1 to Craftsman rolls when engaging in bodily alteration and you are done 1 step faster than usual on the time table.
Unsettling Form: Your body, which you are so proud of, has been altered to a degree to make normal people battle with nausea on sight. Gain a +1 to Intimidation rolls when using to attack or defend.
Lawbreaker (Second): Gains a +2 bonus to all spellcasting rolls made to transform someone.
Lawbreaker (Fourth): Gain a +1 bonus to all spellcasting rolls made to enthrall another.
Doctor (Surgery)
Powers:
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.
Channeling: Biomancy
Ritual: Biomancy
Refinement [-3]
-
Powers:
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.
-
Quote author=bibliophile20 link=topic=24198.msg1025437#msg1025437 date=1297403713]
The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.
[/quote]
Would Gross Physical Trauma include mythic strength or Supernatural Strength damage as there both at about the level of projectile car damage which would kill any normal human NPC in an instant and involves incredible amounts of Physical Trauma each hit.
-
I have two thoughts about this.
First, don't do this to a PC. Involuntary changes to reproductive organs is super close to rape, and that's one thing to avoid in your games at all costs. Seriously.
Second, that'd be an amazing improvement. Human children are essentially born several months before they should be so that their heads don't kill their mother during birth. It's one of the trade-offs of having a proportionally large brain for our size combined with bipedalism. If there were a different exit from the womb, pregnancy could last several months longer, which would have an amazingly positive impact on the newborn. The result would be vastly reduced infant mortality and probably a sizeable jump in physical and cognitive development.
1. Yes, really good point.
2. I know! (Which is the only reason it seemed amusing to me, since it would really be a huge improvement).
-
The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.
I don't think that's a +3. In game terms, gross physical trauma sounds like something that would inflict a moderate consequence at least in a normal person. Doing 6 or 7 stress isn't that easy, and it doesn't even have the decency to make attacks that come after that bypass the catch.
Consider what Hecatean Hags have:
The Catch [+1] is that once they take physical consequences, the Toughness goes away: they lose the extra stress boxes if they have a Mild physical consequence, and lose the benefits of the ability entirely once they’ve taken something moderate or worse.
This sounds like a similar catch overall, maybe even harder to implement in a way that matters in a fight.
-
As a side note, this guy could actually be an awesome Good Guy - if he only does self-improvement, he's in the clear as far as the Laws are concerned; transforming oneself is not forbidden, after all, and a "Be All That You Can Be" attitude, or perhaps the Olympic Motto (Citius, Altius, Fortius) as an Aspect could make him a formidable ally...
-
As a side note, this guy could actually be an awesome Good Guy - if he only does self-improvement, he's in the clear as far as the Laws are concerned; transforming oneself is not forbidden, after all, and a "Be All That You Can Be" attitude, or perhaps the Olympic Motto (Citius, Altius, Fortius) as an Aspect could make him a formidable ally...
Playing a biomancer in the wild as it where. i can attest to how hard it is to keep them "on the good side" it helps if you make their trouble aspect something that tethers them to the lightside.
-
I don't think that's a +3. In game terms, gross physical trauma sounds like something that would inflict a moderate consequence at least in a normal person. Doing 6 or 7 stress isn't that easy, and it doesn't even have the decency to make attacks that come after that bypass the catch.
Consider what Hecatean Hags have:
The Catch [+1] is that once they take physical consequences, the Toughness goes away: they lose the extra stress boxes if they have a Mild physical consequence, and lose the benefits of the ability entirely once they’ve taken something moderate or worse.
This sounds like a similar catch overall, maybe even harder to implement in a way that matters in a fight.
I was basically thinking that bullets don't bother him as much. Getting massaged by an ogre's grapple? That'll hurt. Or, to put it another way, he's still flesh and bone and thus vulnerable to the Chunky Salsa Rule: "Any situation that would reduce a character's head to the consistency of chunky salsa dip is fatal, regardless of other rules."
But, yeah, that might only be worth a +2. Being able to shrug off bullets and blades a bit more effectively is one thing; most people won't think of dropping pieces of the local architecture on you. But that sort of thing is a time honored classic method of dealing with enemies, so it is still a fairly common approach, especially when dealing with PCs, hence the +2.
As a side note, this guy could actually be an awesome Good Guy - if he only does self-improvement, he's in the clear as far as the Laws are concerned; transforming oneself is not forbidden, after all, and a "Be All That You Can Be" attitude, or perhaps the Olympic Motto (Citius, Altius, Fortius) as an Aspect could make him a formidable ally...
He is a formidable ally--to a mob boss. While the concept of a solely self-improving biomancer is certainly a valid one, this guy sees absolutely nothing wrong with granting "upgrades" to those that fall into his clutches.
-
Have you thought about giving him Feeding Dependency? It could be akin to the ghouls where he needs "replacement parts" when he uses too much of his "upgrades."
Just a thought.
-EF
-
Have you thought about giving him Feeding Dependency? It could be akin to the ghouls where he needs "replacement parts" when he uses too much of his "upgrades."
Just a thought.
-EF
No, but I might give it to some of his test subjects... hmm...
-
I was basically thinking that bullets don't bother him as much. Getting massaged by an ogre's grapple? That'll hurt. Or, to put it another way, he's still flesh and bone and thus vulnerable to the Chunky Salsa Rule: "Any situation that would reduce a character's head to the consistency of chunky salsa dip is fatal, regardless of other rules."
Everyone is vulnerable to that though. There's nothing in the Toughness abilities that changes that (except perhaps Physical Immunity). Head getting turned into Chunky Salsa means you are dead (unless we are having fun with flavoring enemy attacks), and there aren't any powers that fix that (again, save perhaps physical immunity).
I don't think this catch is that well defined. A bullet can cause immense trauma for instance. Are you going to use the number of shifts of effect the attack has as a base (so if an attack would do say 5+ stress of damage before toughness-based armor goes into effect, then it satisfies the catch), or what system will you use to determine whether something satisfies this? I think it needs to be clearer than what you have. Someone with a lot of toughness can be considered like Superman...stuff that would turn your head or my head into Chunky Salsa wouldn't even give him a concussion*. This is LITERALLY TRUE, Supes has something like 5 endurance, Mythic Toughness -- AT LEAST, probably higher, so that's 10 Stress Boxes and 3 armor. You or me is probably average, 2 stress boxes, so a hit of 14 stress kills us and makes us even uglier than we were (I'm talking real ugly!). For Supes he marks off a 9 box and takes a minor consequence which he then shakes off his next turn...and that's assuming he doesn't dodge it any better than you or me. That's part of why I think this is fuzzy and needs to be defined clearly in some fashion...probably in terms of stress the attack deals.
-
How'sabout this: any attack with a Weapon:3 or higher; that's into shotgun and sledgehammer territory, which is what I had in mind.
-
How'sabout this: any attack with a Weapon:3 or higher; that's into shotgun and sledgehammer territory, which is what I had in mind.
That sounds ok to me.
It's still really powerful, but considering a basic attack by a ghoul is weapon: 4, it's not like weapon: 3+ is all that uncommon.