ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: rickayelm on February 07, 2011, 05:34:53 AM
-
Can a ritualist create an enchanted object that has an evocation effect within their theme? For example in the Baltimore chapter there is a character with ritual aquamancy, could he create a enchanted object with a water magic evocation?
-
Anything you can do with evocation, you can do with Thaumaturgy (it just takes longer, normally).
In other words, yes.
-
If a ritualist has the ability to create enchanted items (I.E. he's a thematic ritualist or a crafter) then they can create enchanted items with evocation effects.
-
So will this use up enchanted item slots? Or potion slots depending on duration?
-
Yes, a ritualist could create enchanted items with evoction spell effects. And it would use enchanted item slots( potions also use enchanted item slots). It depends what he wants to create- if he has a one-use item then I would say it should be treated as an potion, and if he wants an item that has multiple uses/session it should be some kind of enchanted item like a staff,ring,bracer.... something.
-
So will this use up enchanted item slots? Or potion slots depending on duration?
They're the same thing now. Are you still using the playtest rules newtinmpls?
-
Argh.... I have no idea. What are the two categories, focus items & enchanted? Something ....
-
Argh.... I have no idea. What are the two categories, focus items & enchanted? Something ....
There's really only one category.
Consider it like this. You have Enchanted Item slots, and you can use a refinement to get 4 more such slots. 2 slots together can be used to make a focus slot (which can be used for its own focus or added to an existing focus if you meet the requirements). An Enchanted Item slot can also be used to make an enchanted item, or left open to allow for potions.
Note, that if you want extra power or uses from items you make, refinement/foci bonuses must specify whether they work on potions or enchanted items (alternatively, you can have a thematic bonus which could affect both).
-
Note, that if you want extra power or uses from items you make, refinement/foci bonuses must specify whether they work on potions or enchanted items (alternatively, you can have a thematic bonus which could affect both).
Huh, really, since when?
Just curious, is there a specific quote from the rules that makes you say that or is it just your interpretation? (which would be totally valid, mine just would be different *g*)
As I see it, the two specialisations are "Crafting Strength" and "Crafting Frequency". They affect both enchanted items and potions.
Sorry for going a little off topic
-
Huh, really, since when?
Just curious, is there a specific quote from the rules that makes you say that or is it just your interpretation? (which would be totally valid, mine just would be different *g*)
As I see it, the two specialisations are "Crafting Strength" and "Crafting Frequency". They affect both enchanted items and potions.
Sorry for going a little off topic
Hmm, I was going off:
The effect strength of a potion, like enchanted
items, is equal to the wizard’s Lore. Multiple
slots devoted to potions allow the wizard to
either:
ŠŠ Have multiple potions at one time; or,
ŠŠ Add +1 to the strength of any potion
Which seems to treat them as something separate for frequency/strength. However, looking over Our World, there doesn't seem to be a difference. Victor Sells is the only one written up with "potions" regarding anything, and that isn't in specialization bonuses.
So I guess you can't have slots devoted to potions, per se. They must have missed this area when editing the crafting rules at some point.
-
Hmm, I was going off:
Which seems to treat them as something separate for frequency/strength. However, looking over Our World, there doesn't seem to be a difference. Victor Sells is the only one written up with "potions" regarding anything, and that isn't in specialization bonuses.
So I guess you can't have slots devoted to potions, per se. They must have missed this area when editing the crafting rules at some point.
Well, this is only about using more slots to enhance potions. Specialisations/Foci devoted to crafting are something else. They provide a bonus to the base Uses/Strength of items/potions. (See YS:280 or below :) )
Crafting Specializations
Crafting specializations for items and potions
aren't used for control or complexity; they
usually affect frequency or strength without
making you spend an extra slot to do it. A
frequency specialization allows you one more use
per session. A strength specialization increases
the effect strength of your basic enchanted items
by 1 (this strength specialization bonus can't
be traded in for an additional per-session use).
In the case of potions, this can create stronger
potions, or ones that you can get two uses out
of. Alternatively, a crafting specialization may
be applied to increase the limit on how many
bonuses may be placed on a single focus item (a
focus specialization).
You can create focus items which are used
to provide frequency and strength bonuses for
crafting when making other items and potions.
Tat said, you can’t create a focus item that helps
you create other focus items. It’s... uh, it’s a magic
thing. Just doesn’t work.
I read this to mean that those crafting specializations affect both potions and enchanted items... The same for Foci adding to crafting, they affect both items and potions.
Victor Sell's build seems to support my view as well. He has a Thaumaturgy specialization "Crafting Frequency +1" (no mention of potions or items here) which according to the description adds the uses he can produce with his potion slots. If the specialization was supposed to be specific to potions it would have been mentioned i'd say.
-
Well, this is only about using more slots to enhance potions. Specialisations/Foci devoted to crafting are something else. They provide a bonus to the base Uses/Strength of items/potions. (See YS:280 or below :) )
Ahh, yes, I misread that then.
Victor Sell's build seems to support my view as well. He has a Thaumaturgy specialization "Crafting Frequency +1" (no mention of potions or items here) which according to the description adds the uses he can produce with his potion slots. If the specialization was supposed to be specific to potions it would have been mentioned i'd say.
Oddly he's listed as having potion slots though, when they should be enchanted item slots.
Hmm, hard to think of a reason to grab thaumaturgical specializations outside of plain old crafting. It doesn't make a big deal with rituals or the like, generally.
-
Oddly he's listed as having potion slots though, when they should be enchanted item slots.
The stats in our world are rather poor for most characters, personally i don't even use it as a reference except for setting information.
Hmm, hard to think of a reason to grab thaumaturgical specializations outside of plain old crafting. It doesn't make a big deal with rituals or the like, generally.
Kemlerian gives a reason for necromancy as a specialization, theoretically more exotic forms of sponsored magic might exist for other specializations. For example many people would agree that the merlin has a version of "sponsored magic" like kemlerian that works on wards instead of necromancy.
-
Kemlerian gives a reason for necromancy as a specialization, theoretically more exotic forms of sponsored magic might exist for other specializations. For example many people would agree that the merlin has a version of "sponsored magic" like kemlerian that works on wards instead of necromancy.
Hmm, possibly.
-
Hmm, hard to think of a reason to grab thaumaturgical specializations outside of plain old crafting. It doesn't make a big deal with rituals or the like, generally.
It depends what suits the character. Fluff > Mechanics. From a mechanical standing though, I agree with you completely; crafting (likely: strength) would always be my favoured choice.
-
It depends what suits the character. Fluff > Mechanics. From a mechanical standing though, I agree with you completely; crafting (likely: strength) would always be my favoured choice.
Ideally going with flavor over pure mechanics shouldn't penalize you much. Seems to do that a good bit in this case. Unless, perhaps, you get Kemmler-like sponsored magic for something.
-
I think this issue comes from the attempt to prevent items from becoming even more over-powering. If they'd allowed such items to involve the same ritual-based procedures as most thaumaturgy 'spells', then you could quite easily have 12+ shift items. However by making crafting the only thaumaturgy application that doesn't go via such methods, the +1* bonus from a specialisation is a lot more noticeable.
However, it is certainly the lesser of two evils.
Just another observation. The rulebook at one point, (Focused Practitioner's page?) states it'd be very rare for a Magic-user to be highly rated in all three cornerstone skills (Conviction, Discipline, Lore); yet most Player's seem to ensure their Wizard/other-spellslinger is just that. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I simply think its worth noting the designers seem to have expected/encouraged less 'mechanics-focused' thought processes.
* Naturally, the number here can be bigger (or smaller) depending on the Practitioner involved.
-
Oddly he's listed as having potion slots though, when they should be enchanted item slots.
The book does imply a difference (and for that matter he would need some potions slots to whip up three-eye on a regular basis).
Hmm, hard to think of a reason to grab thaumaturgical specializations outside of plain old crafting. It doesn't make a big deal with rituals or the like, generally.
The one thing I can see as useful is the ability to pull off more complex rituals with no preparation. However you're right, that pales in comparison to crafting specializations.
-
Oddly he's listed as having potion slots though, when they should be enchanted item slots.
Well, he simply has dedicated some of his slots to potions. Potion slots are Enchanted item slots that remain free to be used for potions during gameplay.
Basically all unused slots turn into potion slots.
Victor has his 4 basic focus item slots. He used one of those for a blasting rod, leaving him with 3 focus item slots.
Those 3 Focus slots were turned into 6 enchanted item slots, which he then dedicated to potions (by simply leaving them unused).
-> 6 Potion slots.
Were this character to experience a significant milestone, this setup of focus/enchanted item slots could be rearranged. He could drop his focus item for two more enchanted item slots, turning them into potion slots or using them to create an enchanted item. Or he could drop some of the potion slots to get enchanted/focus item to get more items. etc.
-
Oddly he's listed as having potion slots though, when they should be enchanted item slots.
The books do make a distinction between potion and enchanted item slots - can't provide the reference right now. For the purpose of building items/potions they are equivalent; but for enchanted items you have to allocate those slots at the beginning of the session to use them, while potion slots can be allocated in session.
Essentially, you can pull an appropriate potion out of your hat when ever you want but you can't do the same with an enchanted leather duster.
-
Ahh, yes, I see. I guess it just seemed odd that no one else had Potion Slots...kind of weird, eh?
-
Ahh, yes, I see. I guess it just seemed odd that no one else had Potion Slots...kind of weird, eh?
I think the sample character sheet for Harry had potion slots.
-
I think the sample character sheet for Harry had potion slots.
I did a search through Our World and the only guy with "Potions" is Sells. I didn't look through Your Story before just now (two people have it, though Harry has it listed under "Enchanted Items," and another person has it specified as what potions they are. Anyhow, that's what brought on my confusion on the matter.
-
It depends what suits the character. Fluff > Mechanics. From a mechanical standing though, I agree with you completely; crafting (likely: strength) would always be my favoured choice.
Why not simply write up a character such that Fluff = Mechanics? If crafting is going to be the favored choice, then write up a character where crafting is his favored choice.
-
Why not simply write up a character such that Fluff = Mechanics? If crafting is going to be the favored choice, then write up a character where crafting is his favored choice.
My character kind of stumbled into this. Having a Norse background, it seems like going with enchanted items makes the most sense for specializations. Even with the Son of Thor high concept, barring certain evocations (which he doesn't have atm, but naturally air would be his prime focus when/if he gets around to that), there's not a strong theme to draw on for any sort of specialization. "Storms" seems far too narrow, "Weather" inappropriately broad, "Storms, Strength, Protection of Humanity" doesn't seem cohesive enough (though it is what Thor is about really), and so going with Rune magic makes the most sense.
-
Why not simply write up a character such that Fluff = Mechanics? If crafting is going to be the favored choice, then write up a character where crafting is his favored choice.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the two can't mix. But if it comes down to one or the other, Fluff should be considered more important, in my opinion. I simply think that the stats should be based on the character, not the other way around.
However if you want to make a character that focuses on magically crafted items, or anything else, because it suits the character as opposed to because its superior mechanically, go for it.
-
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the two can't mix. But if it comes down to one or the other, Fluff should be considered more important, in my opinion. I simply think that the stats should be based on the character, not the other way around.
However if you want to make a character that focuses on magically crafted items, or anything else, because it suits the character as opposed to because its superior mechanically, go for it.
What I am saying is that you could start from a mechanically superior foundation and build the character on it, instead of creating great fluff and then try to figure out the nuts and bolts. Personally I rather make sure the ground is firm and then worry about how my house looks, than design the house and then worry whether the land I bought can support it.
-
Everyone has their own way of doing things, if it works for you, then it works for you. If it seemed like I was saying you couldn't, then my bad. I was simply giving in my opinion and preference. Harry summarises my way of doing things, in a way. Mechanically his stat-block is weaker (subjectively) then the majority of PC Wizard's I see made. Yet he is undeniably freaking awesome.
So long as the Fluff is still great, I guess it doesn't matter so much. I just find those that place mechanics first, seem to have less personality to the character. I'm sure yourself, and others, are quite capable of avoiding that trap; so it is not an issue.
Nice analogy by the way.
I guess I should stop going off-topic now. I was originally just offering up a reason for why you'd choose another thaumaturgy specialisation.
-
Everyone has their own way of doing things, if it works for you, then it works for you. If it seemed like I was saying you couldn't, then my bad. I was simply giving in my opinion and preference. Harry summarises my way of doing things, in a way. Mechanically his stat-block is weaker (subjectively) then the majority of PC Wizard's I see made. Yet he is undeniably freaking awesome.
So long as the Fluff is still great, I guess it doesn't matter so much. I just find those that place mechanics first, seem to have less personality to the character. I'm sure yourself, and others, are quite capable of avoiding that trap; so it is not an issue.
Harry is designed for largely solo play, with a GM that likes to throw things that he's not good at at him, so he has to be more of a generalist than say a wizard who's part of a group of five PCs.
-
"Essentially, you can pull an appropriate potion out of your hat when ever you want but you can't do the same with an enchanted leather duster."
I was skimming through posts, and this registered as "an enchanted feather duster", which made me think, could you have a character with a collection of themed or related tools of some kind as a "focus item" when they were actually a group; like a frying pan & heavy spatula/fork for a cooking oriented character, or a collection of cleaning tools (i.e the featherduster and maybe some other weird clean-y things).
Not looking for power here, just weirdness and characterization...
Dian